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DigitalFoundry: X1 memory performance improved for production console/ESRAM 192 GB/s)

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B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
shinnn said:
Wow infamous wasnt playable. Now thats explain why I didnt see any gameplay videos besides the trailer. Its the same for Killzone? I only saw one video from IGN in the entire E3.

So the two impressive PS4 games wasnt playable for the general public. "Surprised" it didnt got more attention here on gaf.
Click to expand...
Killzone was playable.

klaus said:
You certainly know that for a fact.
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It's unknowable. What is known however is that journalists are now on twitter, make videos about everything nowadays and are on podcasts.
None of the industry veterans which talk candidly about what they've seen and played said they were allowed to play Infamous Second Son.
 
N

nib95

Banned
Hawk269 said:
Ding....Ding...Ding....

You were there? lol. Basically you nailed it. It was NOT something that someone could just walk up to and say "hey can I try that?" and it was a high level access type of thing. Make of that what you will.
Click to expand...

Say we gave you the benefit of the doubt, and you did play it when no one else, even major insiders were not allowed to, why would you use the unfinished, buggy non complete and non presentation areas of the game, to compare to a polished and presentation ready demo of Forza 5 as some sort of comparison? That makes no sense.
 
Hawk269

Hawk269

Member
StudioTan said:
What they showed at the conference for the public was played by someone who knew exactly what to show and it's possible that if they gave someone free reign to play the game that flaws would be revealed. That's exactly why some demos at E3 are not playable by the public or reporters. The game is not finished after all.
Click to expand...

Common sense has been revealed. You sir, are 100% correct. I have been attending these shows for over 20 years now, back when it was CES. And this is how it has been and will always will be. Some games get a public showing, then a showing for press and then there are other showings for executives etc. Some games that are not playable on the show floor or even some behind closed door meetings. While in some meetings, they are playable, but not in a sense that the demo's were designed to be explored.

Many non-playable games that press do not get to actually play are scripted, like they do at most of the press conference. There are some presentations that are made behind closed doors that you can ask "can I try it"...some let you, some don't. It is that simple.

I did not mean to cause an issue here and going forward, I will keep things that I have played or seen to myself as I did not mean to derail this thread. So I apologize for taking things off topic and honestly I cant remember how we got in this off-ramp, but this discussion can be had in a different thread.
 
MidgarBlowedUp

MidgarBlowedUp

Member
I think if we combine this thread with the Dreamcast vs PS2 thread we might create a chain reaction within GAF itself that could unravel the very fabric of the space-time continuum and destroy the entire universe!
 
Hawk269

Hawk269

Member
Suikoguy said:
Claims to have played a ps4 game NOBODY else played.
He is the only non developer in the world to have played the game according to him.
Click to expand...

Last reply. But please quote me where I said "He is the only non developer in the world to have played the game according to him." I await your quote where I said I was the only person in the world to have played the game. Please. I am waiting.
 
E

ekim

Member
Hawk269 said:
Last reply. But please quote me where I said "He is the only non developer in the world to have played the game according to him." I await your quote where I said I was the only person in the world to have played the game. Please. I am waiting.
Click to expand...

Are you John?
 
B

Beerman462

Member
StudioTan said:
Why? To prove someone on the internet is lying? What's at stake, whether his opinion valid? Who gives a shit. It has nothing to do with the topic.
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J5tIY.jpg
 
T

Thrakier

Member
nib95 said:
I'm very skeptical of him. He had a chance to play something at the same presentation dozens of important and prominent people were not allowed to, and he also has quite a negative impression technically of a demo we've all seen plenty of vids of, including the one behind closed doors. Where's this slow down etc exactly? Looked to play really smooth.
Click to expand...

Come on, just from the videos I can clearly tell that this game is not a locked 30FPS and if your standard is 60FPS...well, go ahead. While Second Son was easily one of the better looking games there was not one nextgen game on the E3 show that looked remotely impressive if you are used to maxed out PC gaming with great IQ @60FPS.

Judging from the videos, I would probably go away from that second son demo with a negative impression of the graphics either. Some details (faces) are very nice, but a lot of it isn't and the framerate isn't stable (wasn't for Infamous 1 + 2 either, SP doesn't give a shit and so do 95% of the gamers).
 
K

klaus

Member
benny_a said:
It's unknowable. What is known however is that journalists are now on twitter, make videos about everything nowadays and are on podcasts.
None of the industry veterans which talk candidly about what they've seen and played said they were allowed to play Infamous Second Son.
Click to expand...

Well all I know is that people are behaving DAMN nervously - perhaps I've already drunk too much, but... honestly I must already be groggy. So sorry for my confusion :)
 
P

perineumlick

Member
Hawk269 said:
Common sense has been revealed. You sir, are 100% correct. I have been attending these shows for over 20 years now, back when it was CES. And this is how it has been and will always will be. Some games get a public showing, then a showing for press and then there are other showings for executives etc. Some games that are not playable on the show floor or even some behind closed door meetings. While in some meetings, they are playable, but not in a sense that the demo's were designed to be explored.

Many non-playable games that press do not get to actually play are scripted, like they do at most of the press conference. There are some presentations that are made behind closed doors that you can ask "can I try it"...some let you, some don't. It is that simple.

I did not mean to cause an issue here and going forward, I will keep things that I have played or seen to myself as I did not mean to derail this thread. So I apologize for taking things off topic and honestly I can remember how we got in this off-ramp, but this discussion can be had in a different thread.
Click to expand...
So I guess you are keeping it a secret what it is you do, and why you have high level access for these types of things? That was one of the original questions; why were you able to play when others couldn't?
 
A

Andronicus

Banned
Hawk says he's high level retail in another thread.

Is there any reason retail would be seeing games we've never even heard of in "alpha" etc? Retail has a say in game development? o_O

This is just a question
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
klaus said:
Well all I know is that people are behaving DAMN nervously - perhaps I've already drunk too much, but... honestly I must already be groggy. So sorry for my confusion :)
Click to expand...
If someone claimed to have played The Division I would be equally skeptical.

Andronicus said:
Hawk says he's high level retail in another thread.

Is there any reason retail would be seeing games we've never even heard of in "alpha" etc? Retail has a say in game development? o_O

This is just a question
Click to expand...
They don't need to have a say in development to be able to check out games in development.
They may have allowed to play around in the game because as a retail person instead of a games journalism person they don't think he has the same kind of audience on-line that would be negatively influenced by things for example crashing.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Hawk269 said:
Last reply. But please quote me where I said "He is the only non developer in the world to have played the game according to him." I await your quote where I said I was the only person in the world to have played the game. Please. I am waiting.
Click to expand...

Why are you the only recorded person to have played it that is not a developer, at least answer that?

I would think the person who makes such a claim as having played a game none of the press has played should at least provide some reason why he has the ability to do something noone else can.

And no, someone high up in retail does not cut it.

Edit: Regardless you sound awfully gun ho regarding digital distribution for someone in retail based on your post history.
 
M

mocoworm

Member
Why has this thread been hijacked about some 'has he or hasn't he played a game' bullshit? What has this got to do with the spec revision of the X1? Make another thread if you want to discuss something else.
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Suikoguy said:
Edit: Regardless you sound awfully gun ho regarding digital distribution for someone in retail based on your post history.
Click to expand...
Oh no. Now it's post history analysis.

Then you're not far from the Fable 2 Dan Hsu incident. :-D

Edit: VVV What he says VVV
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Maybe he was just lucky, or the guy who played the demo had a crush on him, who knows/cares? In any case, you can't expect somebody to reveal his identity just to make a point in a console-war thread on GAF. And if he is making this stuff up, again, who cares?

There is nothing uncontroversial about the actual statement that Forza 5 looks impressive and ISS looks amazing but has the usual issues of non-final software. The pop-ins, for instance, are evident in the gameplay videos.
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
shinnn said:
What "equivalent" games are you talking about? I hope your are not talking about ONE game that took more than 4 years to be released, and got those "features" in just an couple of tracks, with framedrops and tearing.

I could say that some games are unimpressive because they are cutting 30fps to get those visuals, but it is fanboyish as saying Forza is unimpressive. Show me 60fps games with real-time weather and Day/Night cycle, than I'll admit that Forza 5 does not look impressive.

Horizon showed that you can get those features with the trade for 30fps. So I dont know why people keep in saying that just "the" 60fps game is making concessions.
Click to expand...

You just mentioned one yourself. You can downplay it all you want with the occasional framedrops and tearing, but the game exists and those features are there, in way more then just a "couple" of tracks. And on a previous gen system. Also there's another one coming with even more tracks with dynamic day/night cycle and weather.
 
P

perineumlick

Member
ElTorro said:
Maybe he was just lucky, or the guy who played the demo had a crush on him, who knows/cares? In any case, you can't expect somebody to reveal his identity just to make a point in a console-war thread on GAF. And if he is making this stuff up, again, who cares?

There is nothing uncontroversial about the actual statement that Forza 5 looks impressive and ISS looks amazing but has the usual issues of non-final software. The pop-ins, for instance, are evident in the gameplay videos.
Click to expand...
He thinks Forza looks better, I think Infamous looks better. One is a racing game, one is an open world action game. Who gives a shit? At the end of the day, all I want to know is one thing: Has he seen Titanfall?
 
S

soundscream

Member
Suikoguy said:
Edit: Regardless you sound awfully gun ho regarding digital distribution for someone in retail based on your post history.
Click to expand...

Unless he works for gamestop it wouldn't matter. Only real money retail makes as far as game sales are on the peripherals (controllers, cables).
 
R

Raist

Banned
StudioTan said:
What they showed at the conference for the public was played by someone who knew exactly what to show and it's possible that if they gave someone free reign to play the game that flaws would be revealed. That's exactly why some demos at E3 are not playable by the public or reporters. The game is not finished after all.
Click to expand...

So they're super careful and don't let gamers press etc touch the game because it's not finished, yet this guy somehow just walked up to the dev, asked to "mess around" with it and the guy went "yeah sure". I guess he's miyamoto or something :p
 
K

klaus

Member
benny_a said:
If someone claimed to have played The Division I would be equally skeptical.
Click to expand...

Well speaking as a small Indie dev (really small! haven't even been to E3, IGF or GDC yet) that has had the luck to be able to show his ongoing project in a number of different countries, I can tell you how nervous people can get about what you show to the press. And at the same time how great it is to share your progress with others. So again, I have no clue how the big boys handle it, but I know from personal experience that there are two crititcal things: a) don't piss off / scare your clients b) make sure lots of people try out your cool game, even if it's not finished & rough around the edges - you really need the attention.

Hope that makes a bit of sense, back to drinking!
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
soundscream said:
Unless he works for gamestop it wouldn't matter. Only real money retail makes as far as game sales are on the peripherals (controllers, cables).
Click to expand...

I'll give you that to an extent, it would certainly mater more to a retailer who deals exclusively in games.

Regardless, a digital only future would dictate that such retailer showings would no longer exist.

ElTorro said:
Maybe he was just lucky, or the guy who played the demo had a crush on him, who knows/cares? In any case, you can't expect somebody to reveal his identity just to make a point in a console-war thread on GAF. And if he is making this stuff up, again, who cares?

There is nothing uncontroversial about the actual statement that Forza 5 looks impressive and ISS looks amazing but has the usual issues of non-final software. The pop-ins, for instance, are evident in the gameplay videos.
Click to expand...

I tend to value your opinions, but I do care if he is making it up.
He also appears to be the first person to complain about slowdown, even digital foundry said the framerate was smooth.

Edit: And yes, bishoptl, I'll drop it from this post forward...

Not sure what there is left to discuss about the OT though, hehe.
 
B

babyghost853

Member
Hana-Bi said:
Yup. It's your opinion so carry on. People can disagree with you, though...
Click to expand...

Hell no, gaf doesn't work like that. If you make a claim that you played a demo that no one else has had access to, you better be able to back that up. People hold the opinions of others who have played games higher than those who have not, because they have had hands on experience.
 
B

bishoptl

Banstick Emeritus
We're getting way off topic here.

Hawk269 - you will PM me your credentials. We'll get to the bottom of this one way or the other. This derail has gone on long enough. You've got an hour.

Ok, back to the music.
 
S

soundscream

Member
Suikoguy said:
I'll give you that to an extent, it would certainly mater more to a retailer who deals exclusively in games.

Regardless, a digital only future would dictate that such retailer showings would no longer exist.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, since they would still need these non specialty retailers to sell the box and accessories, and retailers would probably like to have the space back currently used for locking up all those games. Since the profit margin is lower on games than some other potential merchandise they could put on its spot.
 
K

KeRaSh

Member
People are complaining about a game that's 6-9 month away from getting released not looking like a finished product? smh
Anyways, back to the topic, guys. (sorry, saw bish's post after posting this)
 
B

babyghost853

Member
Hawk269 said:
Common sense has been revealed. You sir, are 100% correct. I have been attending these shows for over 20 years now, back when it was CES. And this is how it has been and will always will be. Some games get a public showing, then a showing for press and then there are other showings for executives etc. Some games that are not playable on the show floor or even some behind closed door meetings. While in some meetings, they are playable, but not in a sense that the demo's were designed to be explored.

Many non-playable games that press do not get to actually play are scripted, like they do at most of the press conference. There are some presentations that are made behind closed doors that you can ask "can I try it"...some let you, some don't. It is that simple.



I did not mean to cause an issue here and going forward, I will keep things that I have played or seen to myself as I did not mean to derail this thread. So I apologize for taking things off topic and honestly I cant remember how we got in this off-ramp, but this discussion can be had in a different thread.
Click to expand...

Who cares, you said you played it, you need to back up that claim. If you didn't want to get called out you should have kept your mouth shut. It's not different that someone coming into a thread claiming to have insider information, and going sources. When you make bold claims you need to be able to back them up.
 
N

nib95

Banned
bishoptl said:
We're getting way off topic here.

Hawk269 - you will PM me your credentials. We'll get to the bottom of this one way or the other. This derail has gone on long enough. You've got an hour.

Ok, back to the music.
Click to expand...

Woah. This is good. Should be done for all claiming insidership.
 
G

Gestault

Member
Let me sum up the secondary exchange that just went down:

Someone suggested that from what they saw of both games, Forza 5 looked more polished compared to Second Son. They said they'd had the chance to play both. Some people got really upset by this.

These people determined that this person was lying for two reasons. Firstly, the person said they saw it at a private showing with other attendees, THEN they said they saw it at a private showing with other attendees WHEN THEY ASKED. "Obviously," this is a contradiction. And second(son)ly, the assertion that there were pop-in or LoD problems in the E3 build is inherently a filthy lie. A statement was mildly critical of a small element of a game still in development. We all know it's implausible that the game had any unpolished elements, and the idea that a game being shown openly in general-access booths (like F5) would be more polished than one only being shown in private rooms (like SS) is apparently silly.

ibzXqJXUGZndej.gif


Oh. Wait.
 
C

Crimson_Gold

Member
Has DF or anyone else come out and clarified these numbers or substantiated these claims? Looking forward togetting to the bottom of this.

Side note: wouldn't any hardware changes significantly setback production and release of X1? I've seen some state that they believe it could still happen at this time.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
bishoptl said:
We're getting way off topic here.

Hawk269 - you will PM me your credentials. We'll get to the bottom of this one way or the other. This derail has gone on long enough. You've got an hour.

Ok, back to the music.
Click to expand...
I think Bish is just keeping this thread open so he can make ultimatums.
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Crimson_Gold said:
Has DF or anyone else come out and clarified these numbers or substantiated these claims? Looking forward togetting to the bottom of this.

Side note: wouldn't any hardware changes significantly setback production and release of X1? I've seen some state that they believe it could still happen at this time.
Click to expand...

All DF has said is as far as they know 102GB/s is still the theoretical max for either read or write and no downclock.

They also don't know how MS arrived at the theoretical 192GB/s or the practical 133GB/s.
 
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