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Bungie Weekly Update 6/22/07 - The Flood (of media) is about to begin
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
Tieno
Member
In the latest EGM they revealed the results of their little Halo 3 beta internet survey: dubbed "Master Census". I'll just post the top percentage (save for a few exceptions)
Have you played the H3 beta? 82% yes
Favourite dual wieldable weapon: 74% spiker
Favourite single weapon: 29% assault rifle
Favourite heavy weapon: 52% laser
Favourite equipment: 56% bubble shield
Favourite map: 54% High ground / Valhalla 33% / Snowbound 13%
Favourite mode: 50% slayer
Favourite new feature: 31% sharing videos
Impressed by the graphics? 72% yes
What did you miss the most that was in H2 but not in the beta: 29% energy sword
Worst way to die: 60% stupid teammate / 16% laser
More or less stoked for H3 after playing the beta? 89% more / 11% less
Kind of annoying they didn't reveal how large their pool was.
Have you played the H3 beta? 82% yes
Favourite dual wieldable weapon: 74% spiker
Favourite single weapon: 29% assault rifle
Favourite heavy weapon: 52% laser
Favourite equipment: 56% bubble shield
Favourite map: 54% High ground / Valhalla 33% / Snowbound 13%
Favourite mode: 50% slayer
Favourite new feature: 31% sharing videos
Impressed by the graphics? 72% yes
What did you miss the most that was in H2 but not in the beta: 29% energy sword
Worst way to die: 60% stupid teammate / 16% laser
More or less stoked for H3 after playing the beta? 89% more / 11% less
Kind of annoying they didn't reveal how large their pool was.
Favourite dual wieldable weapon: 74% spiker
hell yes.
Favourite single weapon: 29% assault rifle
carbine baby!
Favourite heavy weapon: 52% laser
ok
Favourite equipment: 56% bubble shield
power drainer for sure.
Favourite map: 54% High ground / Valhalla 33% / Snowbound 13%
snow bound > high ground >> valhala. but they are all awesome maps
Favourite mode: 50% slayer
team anything ftw. except VIP (remove the plasma pistol/power drainer from this mode and you have a winner)
Favourite new feature: 31% sharing videos
likely videos in the final game, but the fact that you had ZERO options for the beta made them kind of lame. new feature from the demo, the equipment.
Impressed by the graphics? 72% yes
definitely. the attention to detail, as always, is suberb. its the kind of game that doesnt blow your mind instantly, but you appreciate everything the more you play. even more impressive though is the sound. best sound fx ever. by miles.
What did you miss the most that was in H2 but not in the beta: 29% energy sword
lockout
Worst way to die: 60% stupid teammate / 16% laser
hgplayer1 driving me around in a warthog
More or less stoked for H3 after playing the beta? 89% more / 11% less
uh huh.
hell yes.
Favourite single weapon: 29% assault rifle
carbine baby!
Favourite heavy weapon: 52% laser
ok
Favourite equipment: 56% bubble shield
power drainer for sure.
Favourite map: 54% High ground / Valhalla 33% / Snowbound 13%
snow bound > high ground >> valhala. but they are all awesome maps
Favourite mode: 50% slayer
team anything ftw. except VIP (remove the plasma pistol/power drainer from this mode and you have a winner)
Favourite new feature: 31% sharing videos
likely videos in the final game, but the fact that you had ZERO options for the beta made them kind of lame. new feature from the demo, the equipment.
Impressed by the graphics? 72% yes
definitely. the attention to detail, as always, is suberb. its the kind of game that doesnt blow your mind instantly, but you appreciate everything the more you play. even more impressive though is the sound. best sound fx ever. by miles.
What did you miss the most that was in H2 but not in the beta: 29% energy sword
lockout
Worst way to die: 60% stupid teammate / 16% laser
hgplayer1 driving me around in a warthog
More or less stoked for H3 after playing the beta? 89% more / 11% less
uh huh.
<Will the campaign graphics match that of the E3 trailer?>
I think it's safe to say that generally, in-engine cutscenes tend to look "better" than than gameplay sections, assuming the same graphics engine is used for both. During a cutscene, one can throw all your hardware at the graphics, without worrying about physics, AI, networking, user input, objects "behind the camera", etc. And of course you can dedicate tons of extra art direction, hand animation, tweaked lighting, enhanced textures, and all kinds of camera effects that are inappropriate during actual game play. (Depth of field and other selective focus effects, "handheld" camera work, heat and haze effects, and of course lots of editing between a crapload of different camera angles.)
So is it possible that the SP portions of halo 3 will look as good as the E3 cutscene? I suppose. Anything is possible. Bungie has had quite a while to tweak things since that early cinematic. But that's probably not the way to bet. I expect the MP to look very nice, the SP to look even nicer, and the cut scenes to be jaw dropping. The old E3 trailer will probably end up looking a bit "better" than most SP gameplay, but significantly less gorgeous than the more recently created cutscenes.
Just my opinion, of course. I just hate to see expectations set so high that all surprises are doomed to be unpleasant ones. I prefer to have my modest expectations be utterly blown away.
Minimum bar?!? I think it may be being a bit over-optimistic to expect the SP (gameplay) graphics to match or exceed those of an in-engine cinematic. Not that it couldn't happen, but you're placing the bar awfully high.GhaleonEB said:
I think it's safe to say that generally, in-engine cutscenes tend to look "better" than than gameplay sections, assuming the same graphics engine is used for both. During a cutscene, one can throw all your hardware at the graphics, without worrying about physics, AI, networking, user input, objects "behind the camera", etc. And of course you can dedicate tons of extra art direction, hand animation, tweaked lighting, enhanced textures, and all kinds of camera effects that are inappropriate during actual game play. (Depth of field and other selective focus effects, "handheld" camera work, heat and haze effects, and of course lots of editing between a crapload of different camera angles.)
So is it possible that the SP portions of halo 3 will look as good as the E3 cutscene? I suppose. Anything is possible. Bungie has had quite a while to tweak things since that early cinematic. But that's probably not the way to bet. I expect the MP to look very nice, the SP to look even nicer, and the cut scenes to be jaw dropping. The old E3 trailer will probably end up looking a bit "better" than most SP gameplay, but significantly less gorgeous than the more recently created cutscenes.
Just my opinion, of course. I just hate to see expectations set so high that all surprises are doomed to be unpleasant ones. I prefer to have my modest expectations be utterly blown away.
Ding said:<Will the campaign graphics match that of the E3 trailer?>
Minimum bar?!? I think it may be being a bit over-optimistic to expect the SP (gameplay) graphics to match or exceed those of an in-engine cinematic. Not that it couldn't happen, but you're placing the bar awfully high.
I think it's safe to say that generally, in-engine cutscenes tend to look "better" than than gameplay sections, assuming the same graphics engine is used for both. During a cutscene, one can throw all your hardware at the graphics, without worrying about physics, AI, networking, user input, objects "behind the camera", etc. And of course you can dedicate tons of extra art direction, hand animation, tweaked lighting, enhanced textures, and all kinds of camera effects that are inappropriate during actual game play. (Depth of field and other selective focus effects, "handheld" camera work, heat and haze effects.)
So is it possible that the SP portions of halo 3 will look as good as the E3 cutscene? I suppose. Anything is possible. Bungie has had quite a while to tweak things since that early cinematic. But that's probably not the way to bet. I expect the MP to look very nice, the SP to look even nicer, and the cut scenes to be jaw dropping. The old E3 trailer will probably end up looking a bit "better" than most SP gameplay, but significantly less gorgeous than the more recently created cutscenes.
Just my opinion, of course. I just hate to see expectations set so high that all surprises are doomed to be unpleasant ones. I prefer to have my modest expectations be utterly blown away.
bungie has said that the engine has seen some upgrades since the announcement trailer, so i expect at the very least, the cutscenes to look at least as good as that trailer. you are right though, the cutscenes have in the past used higher quality models/textures, and this will likely continue in halo 3. i dont think there would be a huge difference in graphics though
squicken said:
where do i fit in with my prefernce for spiker + smg combo goodness? its replaced my plasma rifle/smg halo 2 combo of choice
I am not placing the bar there - Bungie did. Watch the E3 Making-of Documentary.Ding said:
"This is the bar we are going to shoot for in real gameplay."
"At the end of the day, you'll be able to play exactly what you see in this trailer."
"This is the game, this is the engine, this is what Halo 3 is going to look like."
(My emphasis added.)
I have my expectations calibrated to exactly what Bungie has said they will deliver, no more and no less.
Tieno
Member
Typed it out all
Have you played the H3 beta?
Yes 82%
No 18%
Favourite dual wieldable weapon:
Spiker 74%
SMG 18%
Plasma rifle 5%
Plasma Pistol 3%
Favourite single weapon:
assault rifle 29%
battle rifle 19%
Carbine: 17%
Shotgun 13%
Needler 11%
Sniper 10%
Beam 1%
Favourite heavy weapon:
Laser 52%
Machine gun turret 19%
Rocket Launcher 14%
Brute shot 12%
Missile pod 3%
Favourite equipment:
bubble shield 56%
Power drainer 18%
Trip mine 14%
Grav Lift 12%
Favourite map:
High ground 54%
Valhalla 33%
Snowbound 13%
Favourite mode:
Slayer 50%
CTF 19%
VIP 11%
Territories 8%
Assault 4%
King of the hill 4%
Oddbal 3%
Landgrab 1%
Favourite new feature:
Sharing videos 31%
Spike grenades 21%
Shield doors 16%
Man cannon 14%
Mongoose 14%
Service tags 4%
Impressed by the graphics?
Yes 72%
No 28%
What did you miss the most that was in H2 but not in the beta:
Energy sword 29%
Scorpion 21%
Player icons on battlefield 19%
Magnum 10%
Overshield 10%
Wraith 6%
Old weapons strengths/balances 5%
Worst way to die:
Stupid teammate 60%
Laser 16%
Sniper headshot 11%
Vehicular splat 5%
Bop atop the head 4%
Plasma/spike grenade stick 4%
More or less stoked for H3 after playing the beta?
More 89%
Less 11%
Have you played the H3 beta?
Yes 82%
No 18%
Favourite dual wieldable weapon:
Spiker 74%
SMG 18%
Plasma rifle 5%
Plasma Pistol 3%
Favourite single weapon:
assault rifle 29%
battle rifle 19%
Carbine: 17%
Shotgun 13%
Needler 11%
Sniper 10%
Beam 1%
Favourite heavy weapon:
Laser 52%
Machine gun turret 19%
Rocket Launcher 14%
Brute shot 12%
Missile pod 3%
Favourite equipment:
bubble shield 56%
Power drainer 18%
Trip mine 14%
Grav Lift 12%
Favourite map:
High ground 54%
Valhalla 33%
Snowbound 13%
Favourite mode:
Slayer 50%
CTF 19%
VIP 11%
Territories 8%
Assault 4%
King of the hill 4%
Oddbal 3%
Landgrab 1%
Favourite new feature:
Sharing videos 31%
Spike grenades 21%
Shield doors 16%
Man cannon 14%
Mongoose 14%
Service tags 4%
Impressed by the graphics?
Yes 72%
No 28%
What did you miss the most that was in H2 but not in the beta:
Energy sword 29%
Scorpion 21%
Player icons on battlefield 19%
Magnum 10%
Overshield 10%
Wraith 6%
Old weapons strengths/balances 5%
Worst way to die:
Stupid teammate 60%
Laser 16%
Sniper headshot 11%
Vehicular splat 5%
Bop atop the head 4%
Plasma/spike grenade stick 4%
More or less stoked for H3 after playing the beta?
More 89%
Less 11%
in the latest issue of OXM (August 2007 issue) there's a couple interesting tidbits you guys may be interested in.
- when Ryan asked Frankie if there will be a graphical difference between the beta and final retail copy of Halo 3 Frankie reponds: "-they will be tweaked and improved. don't strain your eyes looking for the differences."
- according to the rumor mole,
. he doesn't specify if it's in the campaign, in multiplayer, or in both.
edit: also, there's a chance to win a Halo 3 zune. all you have to do is send an email to contests@officialxboxmagazine.com before the 20th of July with your full name and full address.
2nd edit: if you do enter the contest be sure to have to subject line as "Halo Zune".
3rd edit: jesus christ this is a lot of editing. I marked what I typed as a spoiler, thanks NJ x Falkor.
- when Ryan asked Frankie if there will be a graphical difference between the beta and final retail copy of Halo 3 Frankie reponds: "-they will be tweaked and improved. don't strain your eyes looking for the differences."
- according to the rumor mole,
we'll be able to fly a Pelican in Halo 3
edit: also, there's a chance to win a Halo 3 zune. all you have to do is send an email to contests@officialxboxmagazine.com before the 20th of July with your full name and full address.
2nd edit: if you do enter the contest be sure to have to subject line as "Halo Zune".
3rd edit: jesus christ this is a lot of editing. I marked what I typed as a spoiler, thanks NJ x Falkor.
Francias Castiglione
Banned
I hope the Sparrowhawk from Halo Wars is one of those surprises, great design on that.
Pope Grave Mind VII :lol
squicken said:
Pope Grave Mind VII :lol
Mr Vociferous
Member
Complete crap. Admins suck over there.NJ x Falkor said:
DISCLAIMER: I can't believe I'm arguing with the great GhaleonEB. A known cool-guy, and font of infinite Halo knowledge. Well, I'm not arguing, I'm trying to reason with him. I'd rather we do it over a couple beers, but such are the limitations of teh internets. Please don't ban me.
Bungie: "This is the bar we are going to shoot for in real gameplay." (italics mine, bolding is Ghaleon's)
GhaleonEB: "I think that's the minimum bar."
See the difference? Bungie says that they are hoping that they can make the gameplay look as good as the trailer. They are shooting for that, they're not promising anything, but that's their goal. A noble one. You have morphed that into something like, "The gameplay will look at least as good as the trailer, or Bungie am failed." I'm not sure that's a realistic expectation. (I'm not saying it's impossible either. I refuse to be pinned down!)
Bungie: "At the end of the day, you'll be able to play exactly what you see in this trailer."
But of course, you really won't be able to "play" that. That's just not realistic. You can't "play" a scene that shows your character emerging from a cloud of smoke. Or have the pebbles you kicked off a cliff rain down on your own viewpoint. That sort of pre-planned, hand tuned cinematic badassery will always show an engine to its best advantage. Now okay, I know what they really meant: Will you be able to play in the same environment? With the same decorators? The same draw distance? Sure. That's really not the same thing though. Cut scenes are all about the presentation. (Showing the viewer exactly what you want them to see, exactly how you want them to see it, and for how long.) Gameplay is all about the... game play. The player is the director/producer in that case. Players make crappy directors. They look in the wrong direction and get too close to textures. If a cutscene only looks as good the 1st-person, user controlled view of the same environment and events, then the cutscene creators deserve to be fired. It's kinda like expecting a Big Mac to look as good as it did in the commercial. It's not a fair comparison.
Bungie: "This is the game, this is the engine, this is what Halo 3 is going to look like."
Sure, for suitably small values of "looks like". Again, cutscenes and gameplay, even if both done with the "same" engine, are two different things. Different limitations, often different assets, different effects, different camera angles, different intent. I'm not sure it's even possible to compare them. Apples and oranges.
GhaleonEB: "I have my expectations calibrated to exactly what Bungie has said they will deliver, no more and no less."
No, you really don't. Go back and read what they actually said. Then think about the practical differences between a "canned" (albeit in-engine) cinematic, and gameplay within that same virtual environment.
Bungie: "This is the bar we are going to shoot for in real gameplay." (italics mine, bolding is Ghaleon's)
GhaleonEB: "I think that's the minimum bar."
See the difference? Bungie says that they are hoping that they can make the gameplay look as good as the trailer. They are shooting for that, they're not promising anything, but that's their goal. A noble one. You have morphed that into something like, "The gameplay will look at least as good as the trailer, or Bungie am failed." I'm not sure that's a realistic expectation. (I'm not saying it's impossible either. I refuse to be pinned down!)
Bungie: "At the end of the day, you'll be able to play exactly what you see in this trailer."
But of course, you really won't be able to "play" that. That's just not realistic. You can't "play" a scene that shows your character emerging from a cloud of smoke. Or have the pebbles you kicked off a cliff rain down on your own viewpoint. That sort of pre-planned, hand tuned cinematic badassery will always show an engine to its best advantage. Now okay, I know what they really meant: Will you be able to play in the same environment? With the same decorators? The same draw distance? Sure. That's really not the same thing though. Cut scenes are all about the presentation. (Showing the viewer exactly what you want them to see, exactly how you want them to see it, and for how long.) Gameplay is all about the... game play. The player is the director/producer in that case. Players make crappy directors. They look in the wrong direction and get too close to textures. If a cutscene only looks as good the 1st-person, user controlled view of the same environment and events, then the cutscene creators deserve to be fired. It's kinda like expecting a Big Mac to look as good as it did in the commercial. It's not a fair comparison.
Bungie: "This is the game, this is the engine, this is what Halo 3 is going to look like."
Sure, for suitably small values of "looks like". Again, cutscenes and gameplay, even if both done with the "same" engine, are two different things. Different limitations, often different assets, different effects, different camera angles, different intent. I'm not sure it's even possible to compare them. Apples and oranges.
GhaleonEB: "I have my expectations calibrated to exactly what Bungie has said they will deliver, no more and no less."
No, you really don't. Go back and read what they actually said. Then think about the practical differences between a "canned" (albeit in-engine) cinematic, and gameplay within that same virtual environment.
Mr Vociferous
Member
Unless they seriously changed the overall impetus behind the Pelican and its design for combat, there's no reason I would want to operate one of them into battle and I don't want multiplayer maps to support them. Now, would like to use an M41 LAAG in the rear cab of one while the operator flies over a Covenant or Flood infested location?
Absolutely.
It might be interesting to have a level or two based around using a fighter, like a Longsword or Scarab. That would mix up the combat, be a little treat, and make good use of the impressive scale Bungie constantly talks about. I don't think they could be introduced into multiplayer with regularity, but for a campaign level or two, I don't see why. I think they might garner the same vibe that the last level in Halo 1 had, that sense of urgency while operating a vehicle...
I'm just hoping for a human flying vehicle and for it to be kick ass. If we can make that happen Bungie, SEMEN GALORE.
Absolutely.
It might be interesting to have a level or two based around using a fighter, like a Longsword or Scarab. That would mix up the combat, be a little treat, and make good use of the impressive scale Bungie constantly talks about. I don't think they could be introduced into multiplayer with regularity, but for a campaign level or two, I don't see why. I think they might garner the same vibe that the last level in Halo 1 had, that sense of urgency while operating a vehicle...
I'm just hoping for a human flying vehicle and for it to be kick ass. If we can make that happen Bungie, SEMEN GALORE.
DragoNZ DZ
Member
Stinkles said:
We get to fly a Covenant Assault Carrier and a UNSC Cruiser!? ****ing NICE!
I kid thee, Stinkles
Mr Vociferous said:
True. The Pelican would have to be modified too much to be worth using. Why spend time modifying a Pelican when you can just make another vehicle that bring the ass-whoopin' to the table.
I still think it would be sweet to see Pelicans dropping off our new vehicles when they respawn. As far as Covie/Brute vehicles... ah well.
Mr Vociferous
Member
Ban him, Ghaleon.Ding said:Please don't ban me.
I'm all for good discussion, and I'm more than fallible.Ding said:DISCLAIMER: I can't believe I'm arguing with the great GhaleonEB. A known cool-guy, and font of infinite Halo knowledge. Well, I'm not arguing, I'm trying to reason with him. I'd rather we do it over a couple beers, but such are the limitations of teh internets. Please don't ban me.
Think of a bar as being a mark you need to hit. If you hit it - YAY! If you exceed it - double YAY! If you fall short - whoops. That is what I meant. I do not expect them to land above or below.Ding said:Bungie: "This is the bar we are going to shoot for in real gameplay." (italics mine, bolding is Ghaleon's)
GhaleonEB: "I think that's the minimum bar."
See the difference? Bungie says that they are hoping that they can make the gameplay look as good as the trailer. They are shooting for that, they're not promising anything, but that's their goal. A noble one. You have morphed that into something like, "The gameplay will look at least as good as the trailer, or Bungie am failed." I'm not sure that's a realistic expectation. (I'm not saying it's impossible either. I refuse to be pinned down!)
From their original announcement:
There is a pattern in what they said in the making-of video and in this textual statement - this is what the game will look like. They are carefully calibrating expectations to that bar.
They further elaborated in the Weekly Update that followed:
Ding said:
I based this statement on something said in the Weekly Update linked above (question in bold, my highlights underlined):
Regarding the engine/draw distance:
That's the real deal.
As I said, there's a pattern with what they said and have said in interviews. Frank has said on GAF in response to questions that this is the visual bar campaign is held to - gameplay. There are many more sources where they have reiterated this message. I'll dig them up, but I hope that is not necessary.Ding said:
If I had the banhammer, GAF would consist of you and I fapping to Halo threads 24/7. I might let Squicken in to watch, as a guest.Mr Vociferous said:
Mr Vociferous
Member
Hah.GhaleonEB said:
Where do I vote?
I remain disappointed that no one has noted my over-use of italics. It is a wonderful tool for placing emphasis and adding precision to statements. My dream tag, were I ever to receive one, is to have "Member" italicized. Italics are unfortunately lost when posts are quoted, and so they lose their original meaning; I take this into account when engaged in a quote battle. (It's like a rap battle, but for Internet nerds.) On the flip side, everything becomes italicized when quoted, which is even better.Tieno said:
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Well, Ghaleon just about wrapped up this thread. It's much less maddening knowing that we already have a visual bar for Halo 3, unlike some other games where the expectations are all over the place.
wtf are you cracksmokers talking about? Halo 3 beta had the exact kind of graphic quality from the halo 3 announcement trailer
just major differences is the harshness of the light and how bright the hdr lighting/specularity is on the armour, how deep the normal maps are and the visor reflections (that would be an incredible amount of environment redraws to do) besides the visor reflections, everything else is an mp balance choice, not a technical drawback.
just major differences is the harshness of the light and how bright the hdr lighting/specularity is on the armour, how deep the normal maps are and the visor reflections (that would be an incredible amount of environment redraws to do) besides the visor reflections, everything else is an mp balance choice, not a technical drawback.
Mr Vociferous
Member
Pure gold.GhaleonEB said:
Proelite
Member
D3VI0US said:
Prolly not going to be LOTRish because the cpu requirements are exponential for increases to things happening on screen. AI and physics gets exponentially larger once the number of interactions increases. I predict at most several dozens combatants of different types in an open environment.
I must admit with regard to the graphical standing of the beta I wasn't expecting a huge jump. However when I first loaded up high ground as it was and walked through the cave into the bright sunlight I was shocked by how good it looked, the details were everywhere. I'm still amazed to hear the Halo2 in Hi Def shite, because its most certaintly not, it's way past that. Going back to halo2 is painful to the eyes.
D3VI0US said:
agreed, I want to see all of kinds of crazy shit going on. for ex. when I walk out on the desert and I look up in the skies I want to see burning ships crashing through the atmosphere, debris flying everywhere, marines screaming in pain, dropship after dropship coming in with the Covenant and Marines. Banshees fighting the human's answer to the banshee (if there will be one) with their remains crashing all around me, grenades blowing up all over the place and have it all be dynamic and not scripted.
I think you summed up exactly what I want: insanity and lots of it.