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Nvidia Launches "AMD Has Issues" Offensive ahead of AMD's Hawaii Launch

A

artist

Banned
This time without the question mark. The previous thread turned to personal insults and I had to request a mod to lock it.

So please this time I suggest you keep an open mind and not resort to drive-by posts or any other form of ad hominems.

From the previous thread;
jwhit28 said:
Maybe if there was hard proof that Nvidia was helping get the 4k monitors to the review sites before AMD could get Crossfire working right there would be something.
Click to expand...

And now directly from our beloved TechReport;
TECHREPORT said:
Ryan tells me he was working on this story behind the scenes for a while, talking to both AMD and Nvidia about problems they each had with 4K monitors. You can imagine what happened when these two fierce competitors caught wind of the CrossFire problems.

For its part, Nvidia called together several of us in the press last week, got us set up to use FCAT with 4K monitors, and pointed us toward some specific issues with their competition. One the big issues Nvidia emphasized in this context is how Radeons using dual HDMI outputs to drive a 4K display can exhibit vertical tearing right smack in the middle of the screen, where the two tiles meet, because they're not being refreshed in sync. This problem is easy to spot in operation.

GeForces don't do this. Fortunately, you can avoid this problem on Radeons simply by using a single DisplayPort cable and putting the monitor into DisplayPort MST mode. The display is still treated as two tiles, but the two DP streams use the same timing source, and this vertical tearing effect is eliminated.

I figure if you drop thousands of dollars on a 4K gaming setup, you can spring for the best cable config. So one of Nvidia's main points just doesn't resonate with me.

And you've gotta say, it's quite the aggressive move, working to highlight problems with 4K displays just days ahead of your rival's big launch event for a next-gen GPU. I had to take some time to confirm that the Eyefinity/4K issues were truly different from the known issues with CrossFire on a single monitor before deciding to post anything.
Click to expand...

Source - http://techreport.com/blog/25399/here-why-the-crossfire-eyefinity-4k-story-matters
 
J

jwhit28

Member
I didn't doubt Nvidia had something to do with so many 4k impressions going up at once, I just didn't see what was wrong about it. Well at least there is proof now. Still I don't think it's heinous or underhanded to point out that the Crossfire drivers that fix frame dropping don't yet work with the few 4k monitors out there.
 
A

artist

Banned
jwhit28 said:
I didn't doubt Nvidia had something to do with so many 4k impressions going up at once, I just didn't see what was wrong about it. Well at least there is proof now.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you were one of the civil ones in that thread. This is just a follow up since people simply refused to believe anything even close to that sort is possible.

jwhit28 said:
Still I don't think it's heinous or underhanded to point out that the Crossfire drivers that fix frame dropping don't yet work with the few 4k monitors out there.
Click to expand...
It is underhanded, game hardware journalism is asking the question Nvidia wants them to ask. Nvidia gets you a brand new 4K setup with some nice Titans, because it suits them. How do you think frame-rate analysis became the norm? The gaming press needs to dig and come up with the hard hitting questions themselves, instead of letting one of the members in a duopoly to write the narrative.
 
A

andromeduck

Member
artist said:
Yeah, you were one of the civil ones in that thread. This is just a follow up since people simply refused to believe anything even close to that sort is possible.


It is underhanded, game hardware journalism is asking the question Nvidia wants them to ask. Nvidia gets you a brand new 4K setup with some nice Titans, because it suits them. How do you think frame-rate analysis became the norm? The gaming press needs to dig and come up with the hard hitting questions themselves, instead of letting one of the members in a duopoly to write the narrative.
Click to expand...

if the questions are valid then the questions are valid I there's nothing more to it

it's not as if nvidia is preventing them from answering/asking questions
 
X

xenist

Member
Thank fuck the war is starting up again. I love it when companies actually fight for my money like they're supposed to. They bleed, I win.

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!
 
G

GeoNeo

I disagree.
I don't have any problems with how NV went with this gaming journalism is fucking shit apart from a handful of sites I see no problem with them pointing out shit with their competition.

If anything NV & AMD in the GPU market going to war is better for me as a consumer. Unlike AMD and Intel where it's basically a one man show now thus value & innovation has suffered because Intel is so far ahead when it comes to performance that they are not pushed to make new hardware a bigger jump and is on cruise control.
 
2

2San

Member
Nvidia never fails at being scum I guess. I really don't understand why they feel the need to do this shit. They have a good market position. What are they so afraid of?
 
Q

QaaQer

Member
Anyone defending Nvidia marketing has no understanding of the history of Nvidia marketing.

But whatever, AMD continues to circle the drain. so the Nvidia fanboys,just like the Intel fanboys, can be really happy when it will be a 1 company show in a couple of years. Enjoy the the market stagnation and high prices.
 
C

Cipherr

Member
jwhit28 said:
I didn't doubt Nvidia had something to do with so many 4k impressions going up at once, I just didn't see what was wrong about it. Well at least there is proof now. Still I don't think it's heinous or underhanded to point out that the Crossfire drivers that fix frame dropping don't yet work with the few 4k monitors out there.
Click to expand...

So at first its "Maybe if there is hard proof"? Then after hard proof its "Meh, its not a big deal anyway?".

Can you even say that aloud without realizing how off that sounds? Its clearly pretty underhanded. That's not to say AMD probably hasn't done something similar before (I have no idea but I wouldn't be surprised). But you can still call it what it is.

In any case, I don't get the GPU fanboy crap. Its not even a game, or a platform, or anything, its a chip. I have bounced between the two, and to other vendors over the last few decades (before the others died out or got bought) and never once felt allegiance to any of them.
 
Q

QaaQer

Member
Cipherr said:
So at first its "Maybe if there is hard proof"? Then after hard proof its "Meh, its not a big deal anyway?".

Can you even say that aloud without realizing how off that sounds? Its clearly pretty underhanded. That's not to say AMD probably hasn't done something similar before (I have no idea but I wouldn't be surprised). But you can still call it what it is.

In any case, I don't get the GPU fanboy crap. Its not even a game, or a platform, or anything, its a chip. I have bounced between the two, and to other vendors over the last few decades (before the others died out or got bought) and never once felt allegiance to any of them.
Click to expand...

It is weird, the allegiances to corporations that is. I wonder if it taps into people's need to belong to a group or have a religion or people having low self esteem or something.

Some suck worse than others, but the following is always true:
Public corporations just want maximum profits, which means giving customers the very least they can get away with and charging them the maximum they can get away with.

Private companies can be very different though, like with Valve, because the owner decides what the company does. Individuals can be very different from each other. Large aggregations of people, like in corporations, not so much.
 
D

Diablos

Member
AMD has the worst drivers in the industry, I swear. I had a Radeon 7790 that would have its core clock stuck at 300MHz every 4 out of 5 reboots. Apparently it has to do with ZeroCore from what little I have read from other users who have experienced this. Messed with the registry, didn't help. No idea what ACTUALLY caused it but it wasn't my machine, I am now using a more powerful nVidia card and have tried others as well. I have never had this kind of problem before. I can only think it is a driver and/or vga bios issue. Unacceptable.

artist said:
Won't be soon before Nvidia is the only one producing dGPUs and you'll be paying 500 bucks for a mid range card. Will you be still laughing then?
Click to expand...
Eh, revenue from consoles and selling just enough GPU's should keep them afloat.
 
M

mephixto

Banned
diaspora said:
AMD has issues? What the hell were the issues with the 320.18 drivers then?
Click to expand...

Well...I don't what issues those drivers had, but I remember downloading like 4 beta relesases after that and a WHQL one this week, it seems to me that they fixed it quickly whatever the problem was.
 
T

Totobeni

An blind dancing ho
I just don't see anything wrong here,from what I read some of the issues are real and Nvidia just pointed at them in case reviewers will not notice (one issue got away around solution but then again will reviewers even mention it if it wasn't because of Nvidia?) reviewers themselves should not this slip their job is not to defend and protect AMD but to tell the readers what is best for their money, whatever the source of the info the reviewers should let the readers know the real information about the products.
 
T

Totobeni

An blind dancing ho
Trogdor1123 said:
As a consumer you should hope both do well...
Click to expand...

sure, competition is good for consumers, but what we can do when one of only two is doing really bad on their own and actually hurt the consumers with their bad GPUs and drivers?, and just look at this AMD is already 6 months late and still can't get this right, supporting the flimsy guy just because of lower prices don't seems wise to me, and if AMD keep it this way soon it'll be like the one sided CPU war again.
 
M

MrHicks

Banned
are AMD GPU's actually competitive performance wise?
or is it like with cpu's where they are clearly lagging behind?
 
A

aeolist

Banned
MrHicks said:
are AMD GPU's actually competitive performance wise?
or is it like with cpu's where they are clearly lagging behind?
Click to expand...

nvidia has better single gpu solutions for the very top end but in the price ranges that sell the most volume they're competitive

their drivers are still somewhat inferior but it's something they've been working on fixing
 
T

Tagyhag

Member
MrHicks said:
are AMD GPU's actually competitive performance wise?
or is it like with cpu's where they are clearly lagging behind?
Click to expand...

They were a lot more competitive a few years back, now it's really starting to slow down.

They're going to have to come out strong with the new GPU's.
 
A

artist

Banned
Diablos said:
AMD has the worst drivers in the industry, I swear. I had a Radeon 7790 that would have its core clock stuck at 300MHz every 4 out of 5 reboots. Apparently it has to do with ZeroCore from what little I have read from other users who have experienced this. Messed with the registry, didn't help. No idea what ACTUALLY caused it but it wasn't my machine, I am now using a more powerful nVidia card and have tried others as well. I have never had this kind of problem before. I can only think it is a driver and/or vga bios issue. Unacceptable.
Click to expand...
Sample size of 1, great.

Diablos said:
Eh, revenue from consoles and selling just enough GPU's should keep them afloat.
Click to expand...
You'd still want AMD to make dGPUs, powerful ones at that.

FACE said:
GTX 680 says hi.
Click to expand...
I know, I wasnt talking about a one-off thing but more in regards to the general pricing because AMD bows out of building dGPUs.

Totobeni said:
I just don't see anything wrong here,from what I read some of the issues are real and Nvidia just pointed at them in case reviewers will not notice (one issue got away around solution but then again will reviewers even mention it if it wasn't because of Nvidia?) reviewers themselves should not this slip their job is not to defend and protect AMD but to tell the readers what is best for their money, whatever the source of the info the reviewers should let the readers know the real information about the products.
Click to expand...
Reviewers should also not become the puppets of either of these companies. I've sensed that the hardware (gaming) press has turned a blind-eye towards all the wool that Nvidia has pulled, especially since the 1K pricing, it wasnt okay before but is some how acceptable since the 690 .. The point was that if you read the last thread, people wouldnt believe such a thing was remotely possible despite Nvidia having historically doing it repeatedly. The people who thread shat there still dont have the guts to eat crow. The amount of blind mindshare Nvidia has is staggering to say the least. I dont see that changing even if AMD cranks out awesome GPUs ..

Nethaniah said:
But that will result in a thousand more ''salt'' posts whenever a thread pops up about either of them.
Click to expand...
I'll gladly take those salt posts if it means more competition and bang for buck GPUs on the market.
 
B

Beerman462

Member
I was an Nvidia Guy from about Geforce 2 till this year and AMDs price/performance stole me away. It's going to be tough for them to keep me. Hopefully they invest more in their software, because that's where they lack for me.
 
Amey

Amey

Member
MarkReinTweet.JPG
 
J

jwhit28

Member
Cipherr said:
So at first its "Maybe if there is hard proof"? Then after hard proof its "Meh, its not a big deal anyway?".

Can you even say that aloud without realizing how off that sounds? Its clearly pretty underhanded. That's not to say AMD probably hasn't done something similar before (I have no idea but I wouldn't be surprised). But you can still call it what it is.

In any case, I don't get the GPU fanboy crap. Its not even a game, or a platform, or anything, its a chip. I have bounced between the two, and to other vendors over the last few decades (before the others died out or got bought) and never once felt allegiance to any of them.
Click to expand...

I've never owned anything but ATI/AMD. I just don't see the big deal. To me it's just like when AMD got to rub Eyefinity in Nvidia's eyes with a lot of reviewer impressions. Or AMD was showing off Tomb Raider hair tech.

When you have the advantage, you show it off.
 
R

Rafterman

Banned
2San said:
Nvidia never fails at being scum I guess. I really don't understand why they feel the need to do this shit. They have a good market position. What are they so afraid of?
Click to expand...

Pointing out competitors flaws makes you scum?

If I have a product I'm trying to sell, and it does something better than someone else's product, I'm going to let the people who inform my (potential) customers know about it. Nothing scummy about it, it's called smart business. You can bet your ass if the situation were reversed it would be AMD doing the same thing.
 
M

Momentary

Banned
2San said:
Nvidia never fails at being scum I guess. I really don't understand why they feel the need to do this shit. They have a good market position. What are they so afraid of?
Click to expand...

They are not scum and they are not afraid. They're just telling us what's up with the competition's hardware.
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
Rafterman said:
Pointing out competitors flaws makes you scum?

If I have a product I'm trying to sell, and it does something better than someone else's product, I'm going to let the people who inform my (potential) customers know about it. Nothing scummy about it, it's called smart business. You can bet your ass if the situation were reversed it would be AMD doing the same thing.
Click to expand...

To be fair.. .what Nvidia is doing is half-truthing. They are showing a competitor's "flaw" but aren't showing that said competitor already has a perfectly working solution to said problem.
 
C

Crimsonclaw111

Member
I'm in the market for a GPU this October-ish. I've never owned AMD or nVidia. However, my money will be going to whomever can crank the best GPU out for $250-300; will it be the 9000 series, or 7xx for me? I hope AMD can wow me because so far I'm very inclined toward nVidia.

Anyway competition is always good so step it up AMD!
 
D

diaspora

Member
Crimsonclaw111 said:
I'm in the market for a GPU this October-ish. I've never owned AMD or nVidia. However, my money will be going to whomever can crank the best GPU out for $250-300; will it be the 9000 series, or 7xx for me? I hope AMD can wow me because so far I'm very inclined toward nVidia.

Anyway competition is always good so step it up AMD!
Click to expand...

In that price range, AMD's better, no question. In the upper price levels, nVidia would be a better choice.
 
N

Nethaniah

Member
Crimsonclaw111 said:
I'm in the market for a GPU this October-ish. I've never owned AMD or nVidia. However, my money will be going to whomever can crank the best GPU out for $250-300; will it be the 9000 series, or 7xx for me? I hope AMD can wow me because so far I'm very inclined toward nVidia.

Anyway competition is always good so step it up AMD!
Click to expand...

It will really make me lose faith in AMD if they haven't got something better than Nvidia in that price range with the new line.
 
C

Crimsonclaw111

Member
diaspora said:
In that price range, AMD's better, no question. In the upper price levels, nVidia would be a better choice.
Click to expand...
Is it 100℅ though? The 760 compares to AMDs similarly priced cards with a few advantages from what I can tell. Ease of driver updates is worth the few extra dollars IMO, and it's a shame AMD still has a few issues with drivers.

Like I said though, October will definitely be my deciding factor once benchmarks, reviews, etc pop up. Most of the free game promos don't interest me either (bought most on sale, though nVidia was offering Splinter Cell... missed it).

Edit: from what I can tell nVidia also has a habit of releasing high, then slashing prices to kick AMD down. Could also be a factor for me.
 
D

diaspora

Member
Crimsonclaw111 said:
Is it 100℅ though? The 760 compares to AMDs similarly priced cards with a few advantages from what I can tell. Ease of driver updates is worth the few extra dollars IMO, and it's a shame AMD still has a few issues with drivers.

Like I said though, October will definitely be my deciding factor once benchmarks, reviews, etc pop up. Most of the free game promos don't interest me either (bought most on sale, though nVidia was offering Splinter Cell... missed it).
Click to expand...

It doesn't. Incidentally, I haven't had any driver issues using a 5000 series card for 4 years.
 
F

Fularu

Banned
diaspora said:
It doesn't. Incidentally, I haven't had any driver issues using a 5000 series card for 4 years.
Click to expand...

At this point, AMD's so called "Drivers issues" are so ingrained in people's mind that even though they'Re mostly on par (and sometimes better) than Nvidia's, they still get torn for it.

Nvidia made tons of shitty drivers (and shitty cards) yet all is forgotten as soon as the next card comes out.
 
R

Rafterman

Banned
KojiKnight said:
To be fair.. .what Nvidia is doing is half-truthing. They are showing a competitor's "flaw" but aren't showing that said competitor already has a perfectly working solution to said problem.
Click to expand...

Nvidia is doing their part in a competitive business. Showing how to work around the problems they point out isn't their responsibility. Besides, if AMD really thought they currently had a "perfectly working solution" they wouldn't have asked TechReport not to write this story.

As for AMD, well, one can imagine the collective groan that went up in their halls when word of these problems surfaced on the eve of their big announcement. The timing isn't great for them. I received some appeals to my better nature, asking me not to write about these things yet, telling me I'd hear all about AMD's 4K plans next week. I expect AMD to commit to fixing the problems with its existing products, as well as unveiling a newer and more capable high-end GPU. I'm looking forward to it.
Click to expand...

Perkel said:
IIRC they fixed a lot drivers when they released HD4xxx series. From that time it is almost at same level as nvidia to this day.
Click to expand...

Not true. Nvidia has had issues with drivers here and there, but nothing comes close to the frame latency issue AMD had all year long. The first decent set of AMD drivers released this year are barely a month old.
 
D

DonasaurusRex

Online Ho Champ
MrHicks said:
are AMD GPU's actually competitive performance wise?
or is it like with cpu's where they are clearly lagging behind?
Click to expand...

depends on the price bracket, nvidia has the highest performing single parts with the Titan and 780, those are more expensive than the 7970 though. If youre gonna spend like 500 or more then youre going nvidia single card. in that 300 - 400 range id go 7970ghz though, especially with their game bundles a lot of value there, great peformance and the frame pacing and latency fixes over the past few driver releases have further improved the overall value of the 7970. The 7950 is a great buy because you get bundled software and it can be found on sale at really good price points like in the 7870 price point if you find a good sale. Driver updates have helped this chip the most making the gaming experience far more consistent cant go wrong with a 7950.

Last year i had the 670 as the best chip overall , but now im gonna say the 7970ghz is the best enthusiast level card due to the bundle and overall you get. Sure the Titan and 780 are faster but not 3 free games and another 200 bucks faster ...at 1080P which most monitors are displaying. Below that 250-300 dollar bracket id say maximize your bang for your buck with either the 7870 or 650ti or whatever it is now in the 7 series rebrand because they are all in that good enough category might as well get as much as you can when you decide that solution they will last fewer years than the more expensive brackets. So find the best deal I've seen them sub 200 on more than one occasion this year with bundled software not bad at all.
 
A

AdmiralPain

Banned
I don't care if Nvidia told them, I want AMD to do the same. As I said in the other thread, this is how flaws can be corrected.
 
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