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Draxal · May 22, 2015

chaosblade said:
It's sad that the best selling Fire Emblem game is the one that is probably the worst as an actual strategy RPG. It will be even more sad when Hoshido destroys Nohr in sales so Nintendo/IS will end up ditching the older fanbase entirely.

It's extremely unlikely that the first new/non-remake Fire Emblem game in 6 years wouldn't have sold 250k. Awakening didn't save Fire Emblem.

Yes and no. The metric was 250k in Japan, and even higher if on the Wii U ... and there's no way it would have hit the marks on the Wii U.

Hoshido is also destroying Nohr in Japan but I'm not sure if you can isolate it to the game being easier or it being just as Patriotic as Code Name Steam was (except for Japan this time).

Vital Tundra · May 22, 2015

Let's hope they just give the west a complete version of If and call it a day. They ain't Pokemon. Versions aren't going to work in the west.

Kriken · May 22, 2015

Well deserved, helped introduce a lot of people to the series and was a really fun game

Aaronrules380 · May 22, 2015

Vital Tundra said:
Let's hope they just give the west a complete version of If and call it a day. They ain't Pokemon. Versions aren't going to work in the west.

It seems way more like the oracle Zelda games than Pokemon though

jwhit28 · May 22, 2015

I'll never understand the hate people have for Awakening. It seemed like a big celebratory mix of different things that have all been in the series before similar to what Final Fantasy IX did. Calling the support system a dating sim is dumb. Its about as much a dating sim as breeding Pokemon or fusing demons. I can understand the difficulty complaints but I thought the freedom the world map allowed was a worthy trade off.

Draxal · May 22, 2015

Yoshi said:
Fire Emblem is no romance game though and I think it's fine to be unhappy about that direction. I just did not use this option and then it didn't bother me but I'd be mad if they pushed it into the spotlight even more. However, the real problem of FEA is the fact that the game gives the option to grind in additional fights. This should never be an option, because it kills one of the most exciting aspects of the game, planning experience distribution. This way FE, in particular in the first few western-released outings, ends up being all about careful planning and nothing about dilligence. I hope Nohr will end up being the more sucessful version of FE If.

Fire Emblem from the very first game released in Japan has had that shipping culture supporting the game, and it had it was prominent in 4, even in 7 the first released game in America you could make parent couples to make kids in FE6. While it never outright courted the player's direct involvement in romance before, to say there was none of it is a lie.

As for grinding ... you are not forced to use it and can play it the classic style as well, criticize the scenario design and story for being faulty, but it giving extra options for players or aren't the best is weird to me.

Firemind · May 22, 2015

Linkstrikesback said:
Because it sounds like Nohr might be a more traditional FE game, even if it does keep some of the less desirable aspects of Awakening?

How naive. With every new tidbit of information, it is looking less and less likely to be a traditional Fire Emblem. It might as well be Fire Emblem in name only.

Draxal · May 22, 2015

Firemind said:
How naive. With every new tidbit of information, it is looking less and less likely to be a traditional Fire Emblem. It might as well be Fire Emblem in name only.

Well as traditional as the radical shifts from FE to FE2 and FE3 to FE4. Let's not pretend that Kaga's fire emblems were all cut from the same cloth.

SpacePirate Ridley · May 22, 2015

perorist said:
Most old fans aren't upset about matchmaking, that was an existing mechanic already in FE4. Most are upset about lack of thought in the design of strategy and difficulty elements compared to previous entries. As an "old fan" though I agree the arguments are tired and a pain in the ass to read in every thread about this game. Even if the gameplay doesn't hold up under scrutiny compared to older titles, Awakening as a full package is the best entry in the series to me because I simply had the most fun playing it.

Yeah, Im with you on that, I also think that making it easier has made it more accesible to more kind of people. Knew there was matchmaking in other FE games, but they made it more visible here and used it as a marketing pull, something im fine with but I know other people utterly hate.

Linkstrikesback · May 22, 2015

Firemind said:
How naive. With every new tidbit of information, it is looking less and less likely to be a traditional Fire Emblem. It might as well be Fire Emblem in name only.

The weapon triangle changes are bullshit, but what else are you forced to do that makes it "Fire Emblem in name only"? Granted there's clearly some of the pandering crap still in the game with the idea of a maid class, that I strongly dislike, but whatever.

Obviously they're never going to take away the option to turn perma death off, but who cares, as long as it's an option and not forced revival?

NeonZ · May 22, 2015

SpacePirate Ridley said:
Yeah, Im with you on that, I also think that making it easier has made it more accesible to more kind of people. Knew there was matchmaking in other FE games, but they made it more visible here and used it as a marketing pull, something im fine with but I know other people utterly hate.

I don't think they used it as marketing pool. The support system and 2nd generation were only revealed when we got a full gameplay overview right before launch. It certainly struck a cord with audiences and dominates a lot of the online discussion though.

If anything, it's kind of odd that for a while they were sidelining supports (no support endings in PoR, which also meant no supports with romantic development, no actual support conversations in RD) considering how it had been a fan favorite feature since the debut of support conversations.

efyu_lemonardo · May 22, 2015

Is there a chart anywhere with sales data for other IS games?

Qurupeke · May 22, 2015

It deserves it. I don't care if people consider it worse than the previous installments, I loved it.

Savitar · May 22, 2015

Great game, deserved the sales. I look forward to more.

Rodin · May 22, 2015

Great and well deserved result, hopefully now Nintendo will never think again about closing the series and we may actually see them paying more attention to it.

Qurupeke said:
It deserves it. I don't care if people consider it worse than the previous installments, I loved it.

Some people think that, many other think it's the best in the series.

GenG3000 · May 22, 2015

Congratulations! As a veteran is amazing having the chance to see one of my favourite series back in the spotlight.

Firemind · May 22, 2015

Draxal said:
Well as traditional as the radical shifts from FE to FE2 and FE3 to FE4. Let's not pretend that Kaga's fire emblems were all cut from the same cloth.

True. FE4 and FE5 are two of the most critically acclaimed instalments by the fans though.

Linkstrikesback said:
The weapon triangle changes are bullshit, but what else are you forced to do that makes it "Fire Emblem in name only"? Granted there's clearly some of the pandering crap still in the game with the idea of a maid class, that I strongly dislike, but whatever.

Obviously they're never going to take away the option to turn perma death off, but who cares, as long as it's an option and not forced revival?

They should first do away with the pair up mechanic. No, giving enemies the option to pair up is not a valid balancing alternative. The player will always have the advantage because of the faulty AI. Then create some actually challenging maps and objectives, adding back fog of war for some much needed variety. There's a laundry list of issues they need to address (weapon balancing without durability, weapon triangle balancing, reclass balancing etc.), but I'll spare them from you.

Astral Dog · May 22, 2015

,Other entries were good but Awakening made me a fan.

Sulik2 · May 22, 2015

Its a fantastic game that happens to be very well written. 8-4 needs to get some credit for their amazing translation work too.

rpmurphy · May 22, 2015

The waifu/husbando part of it only became a thing because players had an avatar. Otherwise, it's pretty much just an expansion of the support system, which has been one of the appeals of the series. Matching units and watching their support convos fleshed out the characters and that was cool. S-rank being marriage + child character is a natural progression of the mechanic.

Yoshi · May 22, 2015

Anteo said:
By not using that option you mean you never paired anyone. Because getting super powerful units with insane skiĺls was a lot of fun.

Also Awakening exp curve is the only balanced part about the game. I beat it w/o grinding, and even got 2 of the kids in my main party.

I don't want super powerful units with insane skills, this is taking away from the strategic part of the game (which is all that matters). In the same way, yes, you could play through the game without grinding, I myself have done my best not to play any mission more than once (sometimes I ended up playing a repeated mission though because in the beginning I didn't know how to differentiate real missions and grind missions), but it devalues the importance of planning experience distribution if you could always get more experience.

Yoshi · May 22, 2015

Draxal said:
Fire Emblem from the very first game released in Japan has had that shipping culture supporting the game, and it had it was prominent in 4, even in 7 the first released game in America you could make parent couples to make kids in FE6. While it never outright courted the player's direct involvement in romance before, to say there was none of it is a lie.

As for grinding ... you are not forced to use it and can play it the classic style as well, criticize the scenario design and story for being faulty, but it giving extra options for players or aren't the best is weird to me.

What is a shipping culture? I also didn't claim there never was any pairing in older FEs (not having played 3-6 & 12 yet would make that a strange statement anyway), but in the games I've played it has been way, way less pronounced.

Giving the player the option to grind is taking away the pressure to plan experience distribution properly. It's similar to perma-death, you could of course just not use a character anymore if he died in a mission voluntarily, but that's just not the same. Putting grinding in a super-casual-mode is fine, but not in the real game. Moreover, it would also not be fine to disable girinding exclusively in the Lunatic-type modes because then you're dependent on luck, which is never acceptable.

Draxal · May 22, 2015

Yoshi said:
What is a shipping culture? I also didn't claim there never was any pairing in older FEs (not having played 3-6 & 12 yet would make that a strange statement anyway), but in the games I've played it has been way, way less pronounced.

Giving the player the option to grind is taking away the pressure to plan experience distribution properly. It's similar to perma-death, you could of course just not use a character anymore if he died in a mission voluntarily, but that's just not the same. Putting grinding in a super-casual-mode is fine, but not in the real game. Moreover, it would also not be fine to disable girinding exclusively in the Lunatic-type modes because then you're dependent on luck, which is never acceptable.

Shipping culture is the tendency of the fandom to pair up the units romantically, it's ALWAYS been done by the fandom. It was explicitly done in FE4 as the romance system (asides from the Robin-Mary Sue) was present in that game and nowhere near as optional in that game as it is in Awakening, and that game is considered a fan favorite. It was pronounced in FE7 as part of the reason of that game was a callback to FE6 as you see some of the parent couplings in that game Roy (Eliwood) Lugh/Ray (Nino) Wolt (Rebecca) ... etc and you can choose the ingame spouse from FE7.

You can reset on casual as well for deaths (which I do as I usual casual for ingame battle saves personally), but if you are grinding by using the dlc or entering another map, that's akin to you purposely gaming a system that you can easily avoid.

Yoshi · May 22, 2015

Draxal said:
Shipping culture is the tendency of the fandom to pair up the units romantically, it's ALWAYS been done by the fandom. It was explicitly done in FE4 as the romance system (asides from the Robin-Mary Sue) was present in that game and nowhere near as optional in that game as it is in Awakening, and that game is considered a fan favorite. It was pronounced in FE7 as part of the reason of that game was a callback to FE6 as you see some of the parent couplings in that game Roy (Eliwood) Lugh/Ray (Nino) Wolt (Rebecca) ... etc and you can choose the ingame spouse from FE7.

You can reset on casual as well for deaths (which I do as I usual casual for ingame battle saves personally), but if you are grinding by using the dlc or entering another map, that's akin to you purposely gaming a system that you can easily avoid.

You can in principle do it, yes, as you stated, but then you are making your own rules, I'm judging the game by the rules it itself sets up and allowing for grinding (without marking you negatively in any way, like the Super Guide at least does) for me is an even bigger problem than disabling permadeath (way bigger, permadeath is not important in itself if the game design takes it into account) and there's probably a reason IS didn't just end permadeath, but offered a distinct option, even though of course you can force yourself to play by the permadeath rules.

Augemitbutter · May 22, 2015

good for casual emblem fans.

let's hope the next FE OT isn't 60% waifu talk again.

SuperHans · May 22, 2015

SliceSabre said:
Damn Awakening sure had had long legs on it. Not that it doesn't deserve every one of those sales.

Long legs but no feet.

VanillaCakeIsBurning · May 22, 2015

Raggie said:
Am I the only one who finds the constant use of the word 'waifu' aggrevating?

I know it's tongue-in-cheeck, but there's always that base assumption that any romantic aspects in a game is basically pandering some basement dweller virgins who fap to their 2D crushes because they can't get any. Or, at the very least enjoying romance is something ridiculous and effeminate. Romance is always brought up with derision, even when it's a very small and optional part of a game.

I like following all sorts of personal relationships forming between game characters, romance included, and not because there's something lacking in my own life. I find it entertaining and interesting and it makes the characters feel more human. I enjoy good human drama in all fiction. I watch Game of Thrones because of the characters and how their interaction plays out. It's really as simple as that, and I believe most people who enjoy the characters relationship aspect in FE are enjoying it for the same simple reasons. It's not weird and sick, people just are always interested in people, even fictional ones. I know I don't bother reading novels where I'm not interested in any of the characters.

Sorry for the rant, it's just a pet peeve of mine.

I understand what you mean here. For me the most ironic part is people who supposedly hate the word start using it as much as the people they deride for using it (not talking about you here).

Like you said, romance elements over here at least have been consistently framed as things for social rejects who haven't seen the sun for the past 20 years. It seems it is difficult to find people who are willing to discuss such elements in a manner that is not disingenuous, or it could be a case of detractors being the loudest.

Blackquill · May 22, 2015

Vital Tundra said:
Let's hope they just give the west a complete version of If and call it a day. They ain't Pokemon. Versions aren't going to work in the west.

Hope so, that's the kind of thing that would work in Japan but something that would kill the series in the west.

Makoto Yuki · May 22, 2015

Glad it did well, it's deserving of the sales and praise. The casual appeals, like the more accessible modes made it a great game for Fire Emblem newcomers, which is great and all, but hopefully if returns it back to the roots with chapter to chapter structure and limited experience pools. Dark Kingdom sounds more like the classic FE.

High sales mean more Fire Emblem games, which is good in my book.

Now the series has a lot more to live up to because the Hardcore Fire Emblem crowd likes the game a specific way (chapter to chapter, limited experience pools) and the newer casual crowd enjoys many of the features that made Awakening accessible (Casual Mode, Normal Mode might as well be easy mode).

Augemitbutter said:
let's hope the next FE OT isn't 60% waifu talk again.

Ugh... I'm with ya...

Kriken · May 22, 2015

Augemitbutter said:
good for casual emblem fans.

let's hope the next FE OT isn't 60% waifu talk again.

I think mods have been cracking down on that, I hope whoever is making the OT includes a "DON'T TALK ABOUT WAIFUS HERE" image or something

SliceSabre · May 22, 2015

I swear the vibe I get from a lot of older FE fans is they would rather see the series die than it change and appeal to a wider audience and find success like FE: A.

I would have trouble recommending any of the older FE games to someone new to the series but FE: A is a great jumping on point and amazing game. In fact I might hesitate to recommend it as well because it is so much more fun to play than the other games that they would probably feel disappointment playing the older games.

It'd be like recommending Super Mario Galaxy to someone then they decide to try out Super Marine Sunshine.

rhandino · May 22, 2015

That's amazing, FE: Awakening is my 3rd favorite game in the franchise (1 & 2 are the Tellius game, and that only for the amazing story) and I'm glad that IntSys managed to save the franchise and put the foundation to make the future games even better, I'm very hyped for Fire Emblem If and the changes to the formula that they have been announcing...

SliceSabre said:
I swear the vibe I get from a lot of older FE fans is they would rather see the series die than it change and appeal to a wider audience and find success like FE: A.

I can understand them to some extent tho because if the franchise don't appeal to them it may as well be dead (for them, of course)...

VanillaCakeIsBurning · May 22, 2015

SliceSabre said:
I swear the vibe I get from a lot of older FE fans is they would rather see the series die than it change and appeal to a wider audience and find success like FE: A.

I would have trouble recommending any of the older FE games to someone new to the series but FE: A is a great jumping on point and amazing game. In fact I might hesitate to recommend it as well because it is so much more fun to play than the other games that they would probably feel disappointment playing the older games.

It'd be like recommending Super Mario Galaxy to someone then they decide to try out Super Marine Sunshine.

It reminds me of what happened with Lost Planet 3. It was a complete departure from the previous games and essentially would have made more sense as a separate IP. I personally didn't play it because of the changes since I was looking for improvements on Lost Planet 1 and 2's gameplay systems. I didn't wish for the game to "not exist" however, the game has already been produced and there's nothing that's going to change that. Repeatedly stating things like "this series should have died" or "this game should have never have been made" at this point doesn't do much besides inciting people who liked it and comes off as childish.

FE:A isn't as drastic of a change like Lost Planet 3 was but it seems to have generated similar feelings in some.

NeonZ · May 22, 2015

Firemind said:
They should first do away with the pair up mechanic. No, giving enemies the option to pair up is not a valid balancing alternative.

It's not just giving enemies the ability to pair up though. Actual Pair up now cancels dual attacks, you can only get dual defense while using pair up. And it seems like dual attack/defense might not be chance based anymore, although that's not confirmed.

Then create some actually challenging maps and objectives, adding back fog of war for some much needed variety.

Nohr campaign does have multiple objectives, although it doesn't seem like there'll be fog of war.

There's a laundry list of issues they need to address (weapon balancing without durability, weapon triangle balancing, reclass balancing etc.), but I'll spare them from you.

We've actually got some information about the new weapon balancing though, like Brave weapons lowering defense and resistance, steel weapons lowering attack speed and silver weapons giving stat penalties after attacking.

Lunar15 · May 22, 2015

Here's hoping IF delivers! I enjoyed Awakening, but I hope they don't just rest on their laurels. Some of the new stuff sounds great.

Part of me wonders if the two versions will actually deter sales. Like, people who haven't played the series before but don't feel like bothering because they feel they have to buy two games to get the full package. Oh well, never hurt Pokemon, I guess.

It's funny, as a long time FE fan, I found Awakening disappointing, but it was still a pretty great game. Some fans act like it's the worst game ever made or something.

Also, I've always wondered what brought more people to Awakening than any other game. Was it the art style? Timing? It released a time where there was hardly nothing for the 3DS.

Blackquill · May 22, 2015

SliceSabre said:
I swear the vibe I get from a lot of older FE fans is they would rather see the series die than it change and appeal to a wider audience and find success like FE: A.

I would have trouble recommending any of the older FE games to someone new to the series but FE: A is a great jumping on point and amazing game. In fact I might hesitate to recommend it as well because it is so much more fun to play than the other games that they would probably feel disappointment playing the older games.

It'd be like recommending Super Mario Galaxy to someone then they decide to try out Super Marine Sunshine.

The comparaison with Mario Galaxy isn't really great...

Awakening is much more appealing for a wider audience but it's not better in its mechanics and level design. Actually they removed a lot of feature of consoles FE.

Regulus Tera · May 22, 2015

Linkstrikesback said:
The weapon triangle changes are bullshit

The weapon triangle is the same as before, they are just adding a second weapon triangle to the mix.

Draxal · May 22, 2015

Yoshi said:
You can in principle do it, yes, as you stated, but then you are making your own rules, I'm judging the game by the rules it itself sets up and allowing for grinding (without marking you negatively in any way, like the Super Guide at least does) for me is an even bigger problem than disabling permadeath (way bigger, permadeath is not important in itself if the game design takes it into account) and there's probably a reason IS didn't just end permadeath, but offered a distinct option, even though of course you can force yourself to play by the permadeath rules.

They kept the toggle in as there are some people who prefer to play ironman mode, and they did not want to invalidate that style. Personally, I'm not happy about the weapon durability change as scarcity is a hallmark and there's no way to play it traditionally now,

You are still able to play fire emblem traditionally with limited xp, and you are purposely averting that system. It's akin to going to a buffet and complaining that you only wanted course a, and instead went up to the buffet line got course a and course b and said it was forced upon you.

Taruranto · May 22, 2015

Bleah, it was a pretty bad FE and a terrible and shawow TRPG. But I guess this it the power of pandering.

Hibiki Kurosawa · May 22, 2015

Nice! Glad to see a game like this do so well. It's really great and I hope Fire Emblem if can do just as well or close to.

sensui-tomo · May 22, 2015

SliceSabre said:
I swear the vibe I get from a lot of older FE fans is they would rather see the series die than it change and appeal to a wider audience and find success like FE: A.

I've been in quite a few amount of threads where people have said this. Its basically a "Stop liking what I don't like" mentality, although they can hate what it's become, they have to acknowledge that their series would die without change. Heres hoping the new series will sell well.

Kriken · May 22, 2015

rhandino said:
I can understand them to some extent tho because if the franchise don't appeal to them it may as well be dead (for them, of course)...

While I understand this, Awakening doesn't retroactively burn every copy of previous Fire Emblem games, they can still go back and enjoy the ones they like. But to actively say "I'd rather Fire Emblem die and nobody enjoy it than see Fire Emblem go down this path anymore" is a toxic attitude that needs to die.

Blackquill · May 22, 2015

Kriken said:
While I understand this, Awakening doesn't retroactively burn every copy of previous Fire Emblem games, they can still go back and enjoy the ones they like. But to actively say "I'd rather Fire Emblem die and nobody enjoy it than see Fire Emblem go down this path anymore" is a toxic attitude that needs to die.

But I already played all the previous Fire Emblem

(except Gaiden but I don't like the mechanics)

Draxal · May 22, 2015

sensui-tomo said:
I've been in quite a few amount of threads where people have said this. Its basically a "Stop liking what I don't like" mentality,

Awakening definitely has its flaws (but pretty much every Fire Emblem has their respective flaws as well), but that mentality is what pervades these threads and is annoying. The criticism goes beyond being constructive and tries to browbeat people who enjoy the game into hating it.

Blackquill said:
But I already played all the previous Fire Emblem

(except Gaiden but I don't like the mechanics)

Well you got Kaga's upcoming game!

NeonZ · May 22, 2015

Blackquill said:
The comparaison with Mario Galaxy isn't really great...

Awakening is much more appealing for a wider audience but it's not better in its mechanics and level design. Actually they removed a lot of feature of consoles FE.

Awakening is pretty content rich compared to any other FE game though. And most of the "features" were actually removed by Shadow Dragon and New Mystery (weapon weight). Awakening clearly was a progression of those two games, rather than Radiant Dawn (which is one of the games that would fail in the 250k test...). Even though they were remakes, FE's team basically only worked on them during the DS generation.

Taruranto said:
Bleah, it was a pretty bad FE and a terrible and shawow TRPG. But I guess this it the power of pandering.

I don't get these comments. Do you really think that "pandering" is enough to get Awakening to sell more than a million, or that Awakening is one of the most pandering SRPGs ever and that's why it got those numbers? Games actually based on fanservice are niche.

Kriken · May 22, 2015

Blackquill said:
But I already played all the previous Fire Emblem

(except Gaiden but I don't like the mechanics)

You should play the most recent entry to the series: Super Smash Bros 4

KHlover · May 22, 2015

Blackquill said:
But I already played all the previous Fire Emblem

(except Gaiden but I don't like the mechanics)

Think about it like that: Without Awakening success there wouldn't even be a chance for a game more similar to the old games to be made, series would be over. You might not like the direction the series is heading right now, but it may change once again in the future.

Basically Fire Emblem: Awakening prevented Fire Emblem to turn into Advance Wars. Nobody wants to be Advance Wars.

Regulus Tera · May 22, 2015

NeonZ said:
I don't get these comments. Do you really think that "pandering" is enough to get Awakening to sell more than a million, or that Awakening is one of the most pandering SRPGs ever and that's why it got those numbers? Games actually based on fanservice are niche.

If that were the case Disgaea would still be alive!

SliceSabre · May 22, 2015

sensui-tomo said:
I've been in quite a few amount of threads where people have said this. Its basically a "Stop liking what I don't like" mentality, although they can hate what it's become, they have to acknowledge that their series would die without change. Heres hoping the new series will sell well.

Yeah there's a whole lot of that back-handed "Well if you like shitty tactics games, waifus and horrible stories then yea its a great game."

I'm glad to see Fire Emblem, specifically Awakening, has finally found wider success and now Nintendo can see that there is clearly a market out there for these games not to mention with IF they seem to trying to appeal to the older fans while keeping some of what they did in Awakening.

Regulus Tera said:
If that were the case Disgaea would still be alive!

Its sad to see Disgaea on life support.

Lunar15 · May 22, 2015

All of the stuff I read about Nohr makes me think that the designers still like the older type of FE. They're trying to find ways to put that in while also retaining appeal to the newer audiences. I'm pretty hopeful about the whole thing, honestly. I get a good vibe from the developers, they've said a lot of things post-awakening that resonate with me.

Although, really, all I want is just a better story. FE isn't known for having the best stories ever, but Awakening's was just a tad too frivolous for my tastes. This is easily fixed, however. The developers even mentioned as much, so I have faith moving forward.

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