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Fighting Games Weekly | June 15-21 | 16 is barely okay
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Footsies centre around space control. All of those things influence space control. And if you're talking a loss in mindgames, you have the additional layer now of having to gauge and effectively limit the opponent characters use of specific moves. Vary projectile use against Bison, adjust spacing for Cammy, Chun-Li, Nash and Birdie, try and frame trap Ryu, etc.
Also Combofiend also explicitly explained on stream that they decided not to make Cammy like AE2012 Cammy and locked her out of comboing from divekicks.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Not my problem if people can't get out of their comfort zone and continue to ignore good games
Nope. And the MM thing was before E3. So they had dick to show at E3.
I share your concerns about the game becoming boring and lacking depth after i saw the e3 matches. It seemed like in most situations there were a lot less options for the players than sfiv.
Obviously those are just early impressions and people not knowing how to play plays a big role but i think it is better to voice any concerns and have a discussion about it than say nothing.
Btw i also mostly don't like focus attacks .
I agree that while being super controversial and leading to some bullshit, x factor use is def one of the most strategically interesting elements of that game.
Karsticles
Member
Hmm. Maybe it is too weak if it is a risk now...
Not at all.
It does bother me when games call the same concept different things. Why not just call supers supers, etc.?
I would not call mid-screen projectiles part of the footsies game. Footsies specifically refers to the poking range before you fully enter melee contact.
I definitely don't agree with what you are saying about V-Skills, either. Most of the V-Skills won't even affect footsies.
There's like so many applications to X factor though it's mostly used a way to facilitate a comeback.
Stuff like KBR doing Haggar Press, X factor in the air and then doing a command grab mid air to kill someone's Magneto. That shit is legitimately hype and there are like thousands of examples of stuff like this in the game.
Stuff like KBR doing Haggar Press, X factor in the air and then doing a command grab mid air to kill someone's Magneto. That shit is legitimately hype and there are like thousands of examples of stuff like this in the game.
Karsticles
Member
Memories:
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=143302117
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=143302117
It has a lot of potential depth, but I think its effective depth is more loss than gain.
toddhunter
Member
If a grappler isn't super good day one, then they are going to be super bad.
What is the general consensus about SF5 now? People seemed pretty down on it a while ago, but I'm thinking that might have changed?
I think it is looking great, a lot better than I expected at this stage.
Karsticles
Member
Only XF3 is really worth using for most of the cast. Of XF1 is used in the neutral, smart players burn their own XF to be safe (the gods do this consistently). Once XF3 is burned, the game becomes less thoughtful for the player using it because everything is so much safer. For example, Skull players can go ham with Meteor Smash. For other characters, like Arthur, it creates zero depth situations like Gold Lance chip infinites.
Basically, X-Factor adds close to nothing in the play-by-play of the game because X-Factor counters itself, and once it is activated, the game changes in such a way that tends to remove thoughtful considerations. If Wolverine pops XF3, most players will do only one thing: run away. Maybe try to block. The neutral is dead, though. A few characters like Doom might get out to attack, but they will just spam Photon Shot until the duration is over (zero depth, again).
TAC infinites reduced XF depth even more, because almost everyone runs a TAC infinite character second, so there is no incentive to burn XF for early kills, either. If the game had lower damage opportunities, it might add something more.
I am liking it so far. I am curious how the other 10 V-stuffs will turn out. Designing so many unique yet simple mechanisms will be difficult.
Without x-factor marvel would just literally be a steam role in every match. It may seems simple, but being careful and not getting a face full of x-factor. It adds this smart placement of when to x-factor, which is almost the same comparison as the focus attack. It's something to fight back and another thing to put into your mind when considering when approaching. Even though many people wouldn't agree on it being good.
I also don't agree on v-skills not affecting footsies, they add another way to approach to the footsie range and a lot of the v-skills either hit physically or absorbs a hit. It seems like a lot of v-skills bring new ways to approach match ups for most of the characters. Focus attack was just one simplified way of making your approach, while v-skill is multiple ways for your character to approach. If you don't think v-skill adds more then what focus attack tried to simplify then I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
I also don't agree on v-skills not affecting footsies, they add another way to approach to the footsie range and a lot of the v-skills either hit physically or absorbs a hit. It seems like a lot of v-skills bring new ways to approach match ups for most of the characters. Focus attack was just one simplified way of making your approach, while v-skill is multiple ways for your character to approach. If you don't think v-skill adds more then what focus attack tried to simplify then I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
I'm tired so I'll make my impressions brief, it's been a long day.
SF5 feels great. The game is still in the explorative stage right now so it's hard to guess just how deep it'll get, but right now it feels like it has a lot of potential.
The speed felt fine and general movement felt very 3rd strike to me. Hit confirms will play a massive role in this game, it feels, as you won't be able to take as many risks due to a lack of FADC to make dumb things safe. Instead I feel this game will revolve more around pokes in to strings to confirm to a special for big damage. Less of a game of doing a special, hoping it connects and shying away to safety if it doesn't work.
My biggest gripe right now is how activating V-Trigger pauses the game for a moment. Using Chun as an example here, she still has multiple buttons for anti-airing. Sometimes it's hard to read the spacing in a given moment to perform the right move for an AA, or if you need the catch all you can use EX Bird which you may not have the charge for. Activating V-Trigger pauses the game for just a moment, but that can be used when a jump in is happening to ensure you can gauge the right attack as an AA or to even catch up on charge timing a bit. I'm not crazy about this, as I feel that it makes the risk of a jump in even more risky by providing a very strong tool for that scenario. Not only that, but once the idea has been put in the jumper's head that this threat exists, it makes jumps even less appealing despite being already extremely risky.
It's hard for me to say much about the game with any certainty, as most of you probably know more than I do from hearing the commentators and combofiend explain aspects of the game which I would only figure out from trial and error. I'm definitely enjoying it, though, and dying to play more tomorrow and Thursday. I'll do a full write up responding to the questions I've been PM'd during my flight home on Friday morning but right now I'm on the go too much to go in to much more depth. However if there's anything specific any of you want me to check or test, please PM me as a reminder. Posting in this thread will probably mean it'll be lost to the ages since it's hard for me to actively keep up on the posts in here and data reception in the E3 hall is basically non-existent so I need to add them to a file I've put on my phone before I even get to the venue.
toddhunter
Member
I'd probably agree with the freeze being off-putting. In fact anything that throws off your timing is generally bad, especially when you bring online into it.
ãInaba Residentã
Banned
Do we know if PS3 sticks will work with the beta?
That is greatly over simplifying things and is generally overlooking what actually happens in a majority of the matches. Not every match is finished with a character popping XF3 and then going ham. Quite a few matches have players making tactical kills on an important character, making an important character safe, countering with XFC or confirming off of a stray hit/move into a full combo (like KBR does in every single game he plays). All of these factors inherently increase the depth of the game because the decision to use X factor at the appropriate time is huge and differentiates good players from great players (ie. the "gods" make best use of X factor).
Despite there being TAC infinites and huge damage, XF still gets popped to finish a kill on an important character quite a lot of the time. That's because a TAC infinite can be countered and sometimes you can't risk the game on a chance.
If you removed XF from the game as it is, it would be a huge net loss in depth and options for the game. The game would turn into a snowball fest, more so than it is now. Support characters would be put at the end and they will just mostly flail around while zoning/runaway characters lame them out all day like in MVC2. There would be no Wolverine instant overhead j.L to get clutch kills, there would be no XF to avoid chip death set ups for an important character, there would be no XF to freeze the screen to avoid a difficult to block mix up. there would be no XF to punish Wolverine Dive Kicks on block, there would be no XF to create hail mary crazy mix up attempt and the list goes on and on.
Yes X factor creates some no depth situations like Arthur chip out set ups but that stuff is countered by X factor itself (because of no chip from XF) so that is not a net negative to the game. That situation is preferable to the opposite where Arthur would be lamed out for 30 seconds because he has 0 mobility and can't hit particular spots on the screen very well. The characters which go "ham" when in XF3 also can be countered with XFCs on their block strings as once they XF they lose their ability to counter the XFC. And besides, the ultimate tried and true counter to these XF3 characters is in fact snap back the anchor into mix ups. The existence of a powerful back end XF actually makes snap back much more useful. The whole depth of XF comes from the plays before XFs are even popped, a lot of your strategy into how your team play and your win conditions go into it.
Without X factor you would in fact have way more set play type situations where characters would be put in huge chip set ups against Morrigan, Zero, Dorm, Vergil + Missiles etc.
FWIW there is recovery on activating V Trigger, so if you did it willy nilly up close, you can get punished for it. It's not like XFactor where it's instant recovery. I just don't like how the mechanic can be applied defensively like this.
Specials can't be V Trigger cancelled though, which is nice. Can't do SRK xx V Trigger Cancel (VTC?) to make it safe, which is great since it helps push people away from SRK xx FA safety.
Specials can't be V Trigger cancelled though, which is nice. Can't do SRK xx V Trigger Cancel (VTC?) to make it safe, which is great since it helps push people away from SRK xx FA safety.
Coffeeling
Member
Also has boots big enough to give Goofy a run for his money.
Yup. Someone tone down those parameters, they're ridiculous.
Then again, it's a good plan to pick her. Opponent either cracks up at the goofiness or stares at them entranced so you get a free hit in! :O
Why am I not surprised. We don't need Team Ninja to find out tho, seems like Capcom watched some Eiken Club already
UNIEL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4poG9l7-ZZg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgp7gu1ZnIU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuwoH2iZuKU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf6xHzNbHj0
KOF13:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pC3TAd39ng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwFCImTg_pg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACW36lBGvsY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcBHAAyiGos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIbZgecFGkg
Bad OSTs, I agree. Straight horrible.
UNIEL has an overall good OST, yeah, with some amazing pieces in there.
The Hisako one is amazing. Really nice horror vibes.
Actually, scratch that. I'm liking most of what I hear in this list.
They really were flailing around like a man on fire in character select if you let the animation play out.
'What is wrong with you. Gordeau theme is amazing. At least for me, the theme with UNIEL gameplay brings a DBZesque completely over the top epic confrontation to mind perfectly. I'm a sucker for soaring leads though, and this one is flying high in the skies.
Like, say, here: https://youtu.be/dTRaVe0WTTE?t=3m9s
A lot of what it did was make single hit pokes a hell of a lot worse, having a 1-2 was hugely important in 4 because of focus. Without it, controlling pokes that don't necessarily lead to much gain a lot of value.
I really hate that the focus charge up animation has a proximity block box. Really, really frustrating shit.
But you can VTC (?) on hit right?
Sadly this was on a stream that I saw 2 years ago maybe? It was a big Vampire Savior tourney and I don't know if it was archived. It was Shimatsuya's Jedah and he improved so much. You can search for 始末屋 on youtube and you should be able to find some matches of him.
Momochi going throght Ryu in SFV
They created a playlist for SFV, so you can expect more videos like that in the coming days
EDIT: here's Chun!
They created a playlist for SFV, so you can expect more videos like that in the coming days
EDIT: here's Chun!
Oh shit, so I effectively don't even have to buy it again on PC!
Time to throw this Xbox one
Focus attacks have no place in SFV. If they brought them back then it may as well be yet another update to SF4. Plus I don't think SF4 should ever be the reference point. ST is the reference point. They brought back EX moves and the stun gauge from SF3, that's fine. If you want FADC into ultra we've been there and done that for the last 6 years or so.
sixteen-bit
Member
first day at IBM
Congrats & have a good day!
Coffeeling
Member
first day at IBM
/nick jobneida
Yes but it was a private invite thing I think and was with cancels into Ultra. Feedback was bad and that is when gave Seth Killian a lot of power over the game and took him to Japan.
Focus removed depth from neutral. It was a strong best option in most cases, always avaiable and you could FA backdash on wakeup to really devalue and escape a lot. It beat backdash oses too.
heard you're supposed to start a lot of fights on the first day to let everyone know not to mess wit u
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
The first playable build of SF4 didn't even have distinct hitboxes. Collision detection worked in such a manner that hits registered if and only if the models overlapped.
James Chen once said it was the worst version of any fighting game he's ever played.
FadedRevolution
Member
Do you think having so many new fighters on PC will change how we do events? Right now we have USF4 MKX with SFV and KI coming around the corner do you think that organizers will switch to PC instead of consoles? I mean PC has much more compatibility of a wider range of controllers/sticks and having all these games on just one system seems much faster in terms of setup.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
As it is, people are too lazy and careless to even make sure that console patches are up to date. I don't trust any of them to be able to competently configure a PC.
What is with the obsession some people have with running FG events on PC anyway? I can think of probably a dozen potential drawbacks with no benefit. And I'm saying this as someone who plans to play SF5 on PC at home.
a dozen? lol okay...
I believe it will, because having a large presence on PC only helps the FGC at large. We've always talked about the lack of real sponsorship found in the FGC due to the genre being bound to consoles.
*thereitis.gif*
Oh c'mon. There'll be growing pains for sure, but with community support, it'll end up fine I'm sure. Wasn't Super Arcade running Ultra for their tournaments for some time before closing down?
sixteen-bit
Member
lol
This is a reference to some pop-culture thing, right? I feel like it is, but I can't place it.
Don't forget DOA5 Kappa
I think the line of reasoning is PC = sponsors, and it could lead to more exposure and money flowing into these events.
If you are to run a proper big major on PC with 100+++ signing up T.O need to have the following shit on lock:
Correct GPU config across the board for low input lag (Every setup should be the same without anyone being able to change settings.)
- Read how to reduce input lag on PC games with SFIV test results http://www.displaylag.com/reduce-input-lag-in-pc-games-the-definitive-guide/
The game MUST allow hot swap of USB devices (Sticks, Pads, etc) without restarting the game or anything else it should work just like on a console. Otherwise it will be a fucking mess like WNF when they switched to PC.
No tournament player should be able to go into windows and modify any settings or change any files etc.
Sponsorship of the PC hardware. SFIV runs on any old setup but these next gen fighters need up to date hardware to run on par if not better than their console counterpart.
End game if PC component sponsors jump on board and pump tons of money into the FGC it would be awesome but truthfully why would they take such a risk when they can go sponsor a Dota or LOL tournament. Also, they would need to embrace the FGC community the way it is and not try to change its look or "urban" atmosphere (You know the suites think this way. TOO URBAN STEVE TOO URBAN TELL THAT YIPES GUY TO GET OFF THE MIC)
Kalamari
Member
Brings lots of cigarettes with you, I hear it's the main bartering currency there.
Coffeeling
Member
SF4's engine is still built so that all hitboxes have to be attached to some point of the character's skeleton. You cannot make a static hitbox based on the location point and XY coordinates, so it's impossible to eg. make static hitboxes for Rolento's roll, Akuma's/Gouken's demon flips and Blanka balls because the whole model turns. Static boxes assigned to the torso tend to work for more normal moves where the character stays mostly put.
The game autogenerates some bone-based hitboxes for the model if none are set manually, and pretty much all moves' recovery animations and most if not all reel animations still don't have manually set hitboxes (= they "fragment" into the skeleton-based hitbox which got panned in Vanilla) which is why moves can become strangely finicky to whiff punish or combos stop working due to reel animations (or even standing animation in Sak's case).
There's a reason I rail against the game. It manages to work, but behind the scenes is an unbelieveably half-assed shitshow.
EDIT: Illustration via Akuma's close jab. You can see how the standing animation, startup and active frames have manually set hitboxes because they look sane. The recovery doesn't have those, though, and everything breaks into small body-based hitboxes. Akuma suddenly becomes vulnerable at his back foot, his head vulnerability decreases dramatically and you can suddenly clip his front toes. Stranger moves produce stranger results.
Here's video of Dekappa's rapid daggers to see what kind of hilarity laziness results in: https://youtu.be/nITmkTheAKg?t=1m3s
I can easily see SF4 being run on PC right now. If you look at Valle's weeklies at Super Arcade before they closed down the only issue they had was having to restart the game for some controllers to get recognized. If they had just limited the tournament to xinput devices (360 controllers, basically) it would have been simple plug-n-play. Allowing PS3 and other types of controllers is really what slowed it down.
PC's from sponsors can come in console-like form factor now if you look at Alienware Alpha and stuff.
PC's from sponsors can come in console-like form factor now if you look at Alienware Alpha and stuff.
Seems silly to run it on PC just to take away one of the huge benefits of running it on PC.