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Washington Post: horrifying trendy online-harassment tactic ruining careers (READ OP)

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I've been thinking about this all day and it's just fucking disgusting that this is allowed to happen.
And again this industry and social media sites like Twitter will do nothing.
 
As someone who said correlation not causation lets pump the breaks before concluding Nintendo caved to GG pressure, I still basically stand by that. Her second job would have gotten her fired once it came out it was only a matter of when not if Nintendo would discover it. The fact GG targeted her was wrong and the fact they continue to do so is disgusting we all can agree on that, we can also discuss if Nintendo did enough to protect her from online harassment and based upon the fact she is still being attacked almost two weeks after being fired I'm not really sure what Nintendo could have done if anything to really curb the hate group, but let's not just completely give Rapp a pass here. It's in her right to speak her feminist/progressive views on social media if she chooses to, but if she picks up the kind of secondary job that would get you fired from a lot of places in corporate America you put yourself forever at risk that one day someone at your company will discover it and fire you. She has not and still does not deserve the hate group going after her, but based upon a contract she signed to work at Nintendo she did deserve to be fired due to her own actions.

Sure, maybe it would've, but that's not the point. The point is people were using it as a deflection tactic. The only reason they found out about the second job was because of her harassments.

Saying "but what if they found it some other way, eventually" is just deflecting from the actual reason why it came to light. That's why I consider it a weak argument. I get where it comes from, but it became tiring to have people bring up the same things over and over again and make the discussion go in circles, rather than discussing the actual meat of the issue.

Now I agree that it probably wasn't smart for WaPo to disclose what the second job is rumoured to be. But then, if you wanted to bring it up, you could observe that the only reason the second job was considered a bad thing is because we live in the kind of environment that fosters ideals like shaming women for being openly-sexual, which have become nature to GG. That's a whole discussion in itself and I'm not sure how directly relevant it is, but I thought that was an intriguing point to make.

EDIT: Also totally forgot the most important new point of all!! Regardless of how anyone feels about her, her family and friends do NOT deserve any of the BS that resulted from this situation and its fallback.

I was one of those people, and I'll repeat basically what I said before. I still believe the reasons for her firing, as explained by Nintendo, and assuming they weren't lying, were justified. The timing made it suspicious, but coincidences happen.

With regards to them not really commenting during her harassment, yes I believe they could have said something and shown some solidarity, but I also STILL believe it wouldn't have done anything to "stop" the harassment or even quell it. It was pretty well known that she had nothing to do with those decisions, and it's common sense that a PR person wouldn't have anything to do with localization. The people harassing her weren't really operating from any sort of rational basis. It was pure misogyny, babies being butthurt over perceived "censorship" and them taking out their anger on an almost random bystander.

So to me, the issues are more deep seeded than just being games, or games fostering a certain culture. I think society has been fostering this kind of thing for a long time and platforms like twitter are just making us aware of it and giving said people more power. I'm not saying they shouldn't have said anything, I'm just saying that I doubt it would have done anything to help. Nintendo has no power over twitter and them coming out and saying "Don't harass people" (which they did in the statement given about her firing) wasn't exactly going to cause these people to turn over a new leaf.

Also, like I said in that other thread, articles like this while bringing shit like this to light also seem to have the negative effect of causing more of the targets personal life and details to surface. Instead of what happened to them taking focus, the completely irrelevant things (What was her second job? Was that the real reason Nintendo fired her? Blah blah essay blah blah) always seem to be pushed into the lime light which is unfortunate.

I guess I'm just a progressive person. Nothing personal but I feel like the third paragraph can come off as kind of defeatist. It's better, in my opinion, to at least try and get either potential success or potential failure, then do nothing and guarantee failure.

It's a grey area, I agree... But I just think in a situation like this where people's lives are at stake, a defeatist attitude isn't ideal.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
As someone who said correlation not causation lets pump the breaks before concluding Nintendo caved to GG pressure, I still basically stand by that. Her second job would have gotten her fired once it came out it was only a matter of when not if Nintendo would discover it. The fact GG targeted her was wrong and the fact they continue to do so is disgusting we all can agree on that, we can also discuss if Nintendo did enough to protect her from online harassment and based upon the fact she is still being attacked almost two weeks after being fired I'm not really sure what Nintendo could have done if anything to really curb the hate group, but let's not just completely give Rapp a pass here. It's in her right to speak her feminist/progressive views on social media if she chooses to, but if she picks up the kind of secondary job that would get you fired from a lot of places in corporate America you put yourself forever at risk that one day someone at your company will discover it and fire you. She has not and still does not deserve the hate group going after her, but based upon a contract she signed to work at Nintendo she did deserve to be fired due to her own actions.

Yes, Nintendo did a great job on cleaning their hands of her. They have such clean hands now. Until the next employee will be harassed because of a localization decision made by somebody else. Because it works. Harassment works.
 
Fucking assholes. Don't they have better things to do than ruining lives over petty ass shit and fucking video games.

I can't imagine how little you must have going on in your life to think this is a good use of your time
 

User1608

Banned
Going after her family now? Fucking losers and cowards. No wonder they will remain losers in their own personal lives...if only they didn't hurt people, particularly so many women. Fuckers.

IT'S FUCKING VIDEO GAMES. THEY'RE TOYS.
 

MilkBeard

Member
It has nothing to do with that. Rapp was PRO the stuff these people like. It was entirely because she was a highly liberal women in the games media (edit: industry, sorry) who did not conform to their sexual mores. Seriously, the mention of an open relationship or some such is like a red rag to a bull for these people. When they learned that, it was war.

Exact same thing with Zoe Quinn. Whatever about her Depression Quest game, it was the sex that caused these people to want her dead.

Yeah I kind of understand, that is why the absurdity of it is so apparent. There is definitely an element of schadenfreude going on. It's just sickening.

What would she have to do to get through this? Change her name? That seems to be the best bet at this point, although someone might dig that up too. There's almost no going back from character assassination. How do we as a people control something such as this?
 
Yes, Nintendo did a great job on cleaning their hands of her. They have such clean hands now. Until the next employee will be harassed because of a localization decision made by somebody else. Because it works. Harassment works.

And again the same posts about it being the harassment and bad PR and not what they uncovered being the "true" reason she was fired. This thread is going down the same exact path the last 2 did
 
It has nothing to do with that. Rapp was PRO the stuff these people like. It was entirely because she was a highly liberal women in the games media (edit: industry, sorry) who did not conform to their sexual mores. Seriously, the mention of an open relationship or some such is like a red rag to a bull for these people. When they learned that, it was war.

Exact same thing with Zoe Quinn. Whatever about her Depression Quest game, it was the sex that caused these people to want her dead.
Yeah, she was the poster child of what was wrong with localization/censorship for these people...but she was anti-censorship and not even involved in localization.
 

Gator86

Member
As long as 'turn the computer off lel' is an actual (shitty and flimsy) defense, online harassment will still be common place, and lawmakers and police forces will treat it with the lax attitudes they have had up to this point.

W1zk4ZF.png


Essentially, this

Yup, Rapp should just turn off the computer that contains the universe where she was fired. People who post stuff like that put zero effort into consideration of the issue and Tyler the Creator is probably near the bottom of the list for compassionate, thoughtful responses to controversy.

Don't tell that to people who just want to act like neutral arbitrators though!

But, both sides are bad though, right? - People completely lacking any critical thinking abilities
 

fernoca

Member
The harassnent started before she worked at Nintendo, but it wasn't until a few months ago when they started harassing also her family.


And yep...the article publishing the rumors is what both Nintendo and Alison wanted to avoid by not saying anything else.
 

Spacejaws

Member
As someone who said correlation not causation lets pump the breaks before concluding Nintendo caved to GG pressure, I still basically stand by that. Her second job would have gotten her fired once it came out it was only a matter of when not if Nintendo would discover it. The fact GG targeted her was wrong and the fact they continue to do so is disgusting we all can agree on that, we can also discuss if Nintendo did enough to protect her from online harassment and based upon the fact she is still being attacked almost two weeks after being fired I'm not really sure what Nintendo could have done if anything to really curb the hate group, but let's not just completely give Rapp a pass here. It's in her right to speak her feminist/progressive views on social media if she chooses to, but if she picks up the kind of secondary job that would get you fired from a lot of places in corporate America you put yourself forever at risk that one day someone at your company will discover it and fire you. She has not and still does not deserve the hate group going after her, but based upon a contract she signed to work at Nintendo she did deserve to be fired due to her own actions.

This is not a pass but many corporations do have strict guidlines about how much you can share. I for one am not supposed to share political or religious views that do not agree with my corporation. Doing so is grounds for dismissial. I have know employees who have been fired for the contents of their Facebook. (One shared they thought obese people were sexy)

It the same story aswell. Nothing happens until it is brought to light and the HR department have to act of the breach. It's really down to Alisons contract but I'm just sharing that speaking your own mind on your public feed can infact create a breach of contract or be a fireable offense.

I haven't read the story much but I keep seeing freedom of speech and well, when you sign up to a corporation your contract can give that away pretty much.
 
Yeah I kind of understand, that is why the absurdity of it is so apparent. There is definitely an element of schadenfreude going on. It's just sickening.

What would she have to do to get through this? Change her name? That seems to be the best bet at this point, although someone might dig that up too. There's almost no going back from character assassination. How do we as a people control something such as this?

The best solution is long-term, industry-wide efforts to prevent the next GamerGate from happening. These people are too entrenched, the only hopes we really have are stricter laws that would see a lot of the harassers facing imprisonment for their crimes or to see them pull an Alex de Large and learn that maybe there's more to life than being a shit to other people. Until then, we need to make companies come out against GamerGate, and the more that do work to condemn and combat it, the harder it is for GamerGate to create the illusion of legitimacy, and the harder it is for GamerGate to fight back.
 
Reading what that second job is, I am now fully behind Nintendos decision to fire her. Cannot do that while working for such a kid friendly company.

Situation still shitty, but if Nintendo found that out, no matter how they found that out, I don't think they had any other choice.
 
I dont get it.

I mean people got pissy about Nintendo not localising some of the creepy Japanese stuff in a game so they attack maybe the only person in Nintendo's western history you could probably point to and say they would support such content if given the option.

You would think maybe those attackers would have at some point gone "hey. maybe this women would help Nintendo be less sensitive about this stuff in the west"


Or ya know. Its all just a thinly veiled justification to attack women. Because I dunno... women are bad I guess?



Fuck me. Shit is idiotic.

Nintendos handling of the entire situation was super shitty though. Not touching the second job stuff but seems like even before things got real intense in the last month or two they where not exactly supportive. Basically just put Rapp into the quiet corner for the last few months of her time at the company when the heat got too hot.
 
Reading what that second job is, I am now fully behind Nintendos decision to fire her. Cannot do that while working for such a kid friendly company.

Situation still shitty, but if Nintendo found that out, no matter how they found that out, I don't think they had any other choice.
Wow, you really just said this.
Jesus.
 

Gator86

Member
Going after her family now? Fucking losers and cowards. No wonder they will remain losers in their own personal lives...if only they didn't hurt people, particularly so many women. Fuckers.

IT'S FUCKING VIDEO GAMES. THEY'RE TOYS.

This is part of the problem though. This stuff has nothing to do with video games; it's just posted here because games are related. This is how society treats women. Until people demand better and act in ways to facilitate that, this is going to happen in perpetuity.
 
This is kind of where I'm at with this, and seeing Ninja's comment even, I can see at this point why Nintendo did not want to comment or shed further light on the matter. I don't think it's necessary to further throw more on Alison like this.

Yeah, Nintendo not commenting any further on the second job thing was the right move, now that is out is only going to hurt her if every time a potential employer googles her name that comes out, her husband too. Really sad that this is the outcome of it all, shouldn't have read this 2 hours before a test.
 
Reading what that second job is, I am now fully behind Nintendos decision to fire her. Cannot do that while working for such a kid friendly company.

Situation still shitty, but if Nintendo found that out, no matter how they found that out, I don't think they had any other choice.

I really don't want to devolve this into yet another discussion about "oh, well, maybe the second job, she had it coming...", and I feel pretty skeevy talking about rumours, but, the one thing I will say is it's kind of interesting that even though she (ALLEGEDLY) did this voluntarily, consensually, and privately, we live in a society that such a thing is something to be ashamed of, "unfriendly toward children", "against corporate attitude", and worthy of losing your livelihood over.

Not to mention the shadiness of how and why this was dug up to begin with, plus the fact that its discovery ruined the lives of her family and friends. That part is pretty indefensible.
 

User1608

Banned
This is part of the problem though. This stuff has nothing to do with video games; it's just posted here because games are related. This is how society treats women. Until people demand better and act in ways to facilitate that, this is going to happen in perpetuity.
Oh,I realize that, being one myself. I'm just really frustrated.
 

Boke1879

Member
Yea if I was Rapp I'd definitely be pissed at this story being out. The rumors. True or not aren't going to help her. There's a reason Both Rapp and Nintendo kept quiet on this.

People will no doubt be upset about Ninty firing her. I'm sure they had legal grounds to do so. I'm more upset that didn't come out in defense her in the months prior to all this bs.
 

MilkBeard

Member
Reading what that second job is, I am now fully behind Nintendos decision to fire her. Cannot do that while working for such a kid friendly company.

That's not really the point; they won, they dug up info on someone's personal life for the intent of destruction.

For the record, as far as I can see, she has not commented on it, so it hasn't been confirmed nor denied. Nintendo could have easily ignored the 'rumor' of it.
 

antonz

Member
Yeah, Nintendo not commenting any further on the second job thing was the right move, now that is out is only going to hurt her if every time a potential employer googles her name that comes out, her husband too. Really sad that this is the outcome of it all, shouldn't have read this 2 hours before a test.

It's all their plan. They specifically stated on their attack site they intend to call any place she applies for a job to harass etc. This is not ending anytime soon
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Reading what that second job is, I am now fully behind Nintendos decision to fire her. Cannot do that while working for such a kid friendly company.

Situation still shitty, but if Nintendo found that out, no matter how they found that out, I don't think they had any other choice.

She's fired already. Let her be.
 

LQX

Member
It was so obvious there was a part of this story that should be carefully and tactfully avoided and after the harassment she has received its almost mind-boggling a major paper would just drop it all out there weather true or not. That's part of the reason I think many of these sites should have consulted with her before pushing this story. Her consent was vital as it is such a private matter.

Also, can mod clear up if we can genuinely discuss what been put in that article? I know in the previous thread it was said not to try and dig at what it was. It is sort of out there now.
 
I really do hope that Nintendo is dogged by this until the moment that they release a full apology and actively announce plans to deal with future harassment that doesn't involve pretending that it isn't actually happening.
 
I really don't want to devolve this into yet another discussion about "oh, well, maybe the second job, she had it coming...", and I feel pretty skeevy talking about rumours, but, the one thing I will say is it's kind of interesting that even though she (ALLEGEDLY) did this voluntarily, consensually, and privately, we live in a society that such a thing is something to be ashamed of, "unfriendly toward children", "against corporate attitude", and worthy of losing your livelihood over.
I don't think there's anything wrong with it, nor do I think there's anything wrong with a career in porn.

However, I can understand why Nintendo wouldn't want someone associated with prostitution or pornography as their PR person, considering their family friendly nature.

She 100% knew the risks to what she was doing, and she did it anyway, hence why she was keeping it a secret from Nintendo.

None of the above excuses the hate campaign going on against her and her family; the people involved in it are pathetic.
 
Good to see this blowing up in Nintendo's face. What happened to Alison must not be allowed to set a precedent

A precedent for what? Firing people for breaking company policies?
I really do hope that Nintendo is dogged by this until the moment that they release a full apology and actively announce plans to deal with future harassment that doesn't involve pretending that it isn't actually happening.

What would these plans entail aside from issuing condemnations of harassment whenever it occurred? They have no control over twitter
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
It's all their plan. They specifically stated on their attack site they intend to call any place she applies for a job to harass etc. This is not ending anytime soon

Holy shit what?

Also, while I'm of those that believe Nintendo had no choice but to fire her if she was indeed going against her contract, no matter how they found out, the abuse she's getting is absolutely disgusting.

And this is a problem much, MUCH bigger than Nintendo.
 

Vire

Member
What can be done? Like forreal

Major video game players in the industry, like Sony, like Nintendo, like Microsoft, like Activision, like EA, like Ubisoft. Someone, anybody - takes a firm and public stance against it.

I guess they don't want to be hacked by these fucking clowns.
 
I really don't want to devolve this into yet another discussion about "oh, well, maybe the second job, she had it coming...", and I feel pretty skeevy talking about rumours, but, the one thing I will say is it's kind of interesting that even though she (ALLEGEDLY) did this voluntarily, consensually, and privately, we live in a society that such a thing is something to be ashamed of, "unfriendly toward children", "against corporate attitude", and worthy of losing your livelihood over.

Not to mention the shadiness of how and why this was dug up to begin with. That part is pretty indefensible.

Come on now. I'm all for being progressive but that stuff isn't kid friendly and I wouldn't want my kid being aware of that kind of thing or thinking it was an acceptable practice for them. It is several of those things you just listed at the end of your post.
 
Come on now. I'm all for being progressive but that stuff isn't kid friendly and I wouldn't want my kid being aware of that kind of thing or thinking it was an acceptable practice for them. It is several of those things you just listed at the end of your post.

I don't think there's anything wrong with it, nor do I think there's anything wrong with a career in porn.

However, I can understand why Nintendo wouldn't want someone associated with prostitution or pornography as their PR person considering their family friendly nature.

She 100% knew the risks to what she was doing, and she did it anyway, hence why she was keeping it a secret from Nintendo.

I know, but I mean the second part is the issue. It's getting into deep-rooted societal issues. There's no real reason why such a thing should be frowned upon if it's of her own volition and kept only to herself, but it is.

Anyway, it is. But still... She herself lamented living in a world that shames sex-positivity.

(Edited BaldEmperor's point which I didn't see the time in, since this works as a response to that too)

A precedent for what? Firing people for breaking company policies?

A precedent for her family and friends being doxxed and targeted, which is what's happening to them.

Also, can mod clear up if we can genuinely discuss what been put in that article? I know in the previous thread it was said not to try and dig at what it was. It is sort of out there now.

Yeah, I agree. On one hand, it's there in the article, but on the other hand, I just don't feel right talking about it.
 

NateDrake

Member
It's all their plan. They specifically stated on their attack site they intend to call any place she applies for a job to harass etc. This is not ending anytime soon

Shouldn't that be enough evidence for authorities to act? Or enough for them to do something? That's insane.
 

ShyMel

Member
What is it going to take for social media sites such as Twitter to actually enforce any kind of harassment/anti-doxing/similar things rules? I mean Rapp, along with thousands of other users, mostly women, have been targeted and receive threats, slurs hurled at them, and have had personal info such as their homes put up on the internet.
 
These groups thrive on attention, but sadly the answer to the problem is far beyond just ignore them. There really needs to be some kind of consequence for these kinds of actions. This is borderline cyber-terrorism and federal law enforcement agencies need be involved now.

People need to start going to prison.
 

antonz

Member
Social Media Companies need to be held accountable for what they allow to happen. Sure you don't punish them for random stuff that happens. But concerted attacks that when reported go ignored deserves repercussions.

You can report serious issues until blue in the face and sites like Twitter do nothing
 
From article in OP:



So was that the mysterious "second job in conflict with Nintendo's corporate culture" from the Nintendo PR? It seems like Klepek and crew owe the big N a huge apology. Prostitution is illegal in WA and no children's entertainment company can allow criminal conduct on the part of employees.

Nintendo tried as best they could to keep the facts of the situation discreet and give Ms. Rapp as graceful an exit as they could manage. The misguided agitation of this type:

http://kotaku.com/the-ugly-new-front-in-the-neverending-video-game-cultur-1762942381

Is what's provoked all the lewder details emerging.

The escorting "evidence" is pretty dodgy
 
A precedent for her family and friends being doxxed and targeted, which is what's happening to them.

Do you honestly believe Nintendo coming out and stating she had nothing to do with localizations, which everyone already knew and she made perfectly clear, would have caused them to stop? I'm honestly asking you guys what you wanted Nintendo to do and how you envisioned it helping her. I'm not just playing devil's advocate. I'm earnestly asking for what you think could have prevented the harassment from escalating.

Because honestly I see this being majorly on twitter. They've provided a platform that allows hateful comments to go unpunished. It's bizarre that nudity will get taken down and get you banned (which means they obviously have some moderation system in place) yet clear and constant harassment is just ignored
 

Boke1879

Member
The precedence that ignoring harassment escalates harassment.

And this is what they should get shit for. before all of this they could have came out in defense of her and made a statement that they will work with her to find these individuals who are harassing her.

The firing was shitty timing, but I can't raise the pitchforks because of that. I can raise them because they pretty much were radio silent during the whole thing.
 
Sure, maybe it would've, but that's not the point. The point is people were using it as a deflection tactic. The only reason they found out about the second job was because of her harassments.

Saying "but what if they found it some other way, eventually" is just deflecting from the actual reason why it came to light. That's why I consider it a weak argument. I get where it comes from, but it became tiring to have people bring up the same things over and over again and make the discussion go in circles, rather than discussing the actual meat of the issue.

Now I agree that it probably wasn't smart for WaPo to disclose what the second job is rumoured to be. But then, if you wanted to bring it up, you could observe that the only reason the second job was considered a bad thing is because we live in the kind of environment that fosters ideals like the fear of open women's sexuality which have become nature to GG. That's a whole discussion in itself and I'm not sure how directly relevant it is, but I thought that was an intriguing point to make.

I could argue it's a deflection tactic by some people here to put everything on GG and forgive Rapp for her own choice to take on a second job that most companies would not approve from either sex, especially not one with a family friendly image like Nintendo. Should corporate America view said second job in such a negative light is a separate discussion, the fact is corporate America makes fairly clear what is or isn't allowed by their employees. Rapp was also being harassed long before she took on this second job, so if Nintendo was going to cave in and fire her due to GG pressure they would have done so awhile ago.

In the end we're really looking at two issues, the extent GG will go to harass people and negative effect it has on peoples lives, and if corporate America should become more progressive in its views on work of a sexual nature both as a second job or as a job in one's past. Having a friend who has been refused from teaching jobs due to appearing in gay porn in his college years it truly is something that we as a society should be discussing. The blur in this situation occurs because Rapp was both a victim of harassment and involved in a secondary job that falls into that category. Discussions about cyber laws to protect people against harassment and ways to police such negative bullying behavior also need to happen and what has and continues to happen to Rapp is proof we need such legislation AND discussions about the nature of sex work and if it should be viewed as a negative stain on someones character regardless of sex. These are the lessons and discussion we need have and learn from this story, not if a video game company needs to do more to defend it's employee from harassment.
 
I know, but I mean the second part is the issue. It's getting into deep-rooted societal issues. There's no real reason why such a thing should be frowned upon if it's of her own volition and kept only to herself, but it is.
I mean, there's a time and a place for that sort of thing and it's not while working at a company aimed at children.

There's nothing wrong with the fact that adults want to shield children from pornography and prostitution until they're older.
 
So many people are missing the point and actively doing what these assholes want you to do.
This is about the harassment in this industry not the details of some second job.
 
Do you honestly believe Nintendo coming out and stating she had nothing to do with localizations, which everyone already knew and she made perfectly clear, would have caused them to stop? I'm honestly asking you guys what you wanted Nintendo to do and how you envisioned it helping her. I'm not just playing devil's advocate. I'm earnestly asking for what you think could have prevented the harassment from escalating.

No one's saying they could prevent things singlehandedly. That's foolish.

But Nintendo absolutely has the power to take steps not just for themselves but for the whole industry.

A public statement denouncing harassment has the following effects.

- Working environment is perceived as safer
- Company is perceived as friendly and on top of the curve
- Establishes a precedent for other game companies to follow: "hey, if Nintendo can denounce harassment, we should too." The more companies stand against GG, the more we as a gaming community recognize that they are fundamentally bad for the industry.

Or they could work with twitter, Facebook, etc. to crack down on harassers.

These wouldn't stop things, but do you think they would hurt?

There's nothing wrong with the fact that adults want to shield children from pornography and prostitution until they're older.

What she does would have no effect on children anyway. And my point as I've said is simply a musing on society as a whole. I'm not talking about Nintendo specifically.

Regardless, second job is what it allegedly is, whatever. It's not the point of the discussion though. The point is what the situation regarding her and her family's harassment means for the industry - i.e. it's a pretty fucking terrible thing that we and the industry itself just allows this to happen.
 
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