Support NeoGAF

madmackem · Jun 17, 2016

http://www.polygon.com/e3/2016/6/17...x-one-talks-mmo-square-enix-microsoft-e3-2016

"Microsoft actually approached the Final Fantasy 14 team about the cross-platform opportunity," Yoshida told Polygon. "When our team reviewed the regulations that are associated with that, we realized that Microsoft may not have the experience or understanding of running an MMORPG as an online game genre just yet. The Final Fantasy 14 team has fed back to Microsoft that there are certain elements of its regulations that we would have to consider waived. We're waiting on Microsoft's response for that, but we are having discussions.

Plenty said when they announced it and everyone was like over to you Sony that it wouldn't be as simple as it being open and ms would have regulations etc. Wonder what they are?.

Caayn · Jun 17, 2016

This doesn't come as a surprise. I've said this before and will say it again: Policies are holding back true cross-platform play.

madmackem said:
Plenty said when they announced it and everyone was like over to you Sony that it wouldn't be as simple as it being open and ms would have regulations etc. Wonder what they are?.

Great way to start a thread....

The Last Wizard · Jun 17, 2016

I mean it was obvious there'd be caveats to this, Ms weren't gonna just do cross play the way people thought. People were so quick to jump on Sony without even knowing the details.

goldenpp72 · Jun 17, 2016

Caayn said:
This doesn't come as a surprise. I've said this before and will say it again: Policies are holding back true cross-platform play.
Great way to start a thread....

There is no agenda

Darth Smurf X · Jun 17, 2016

This pretty much echoes what the DC Universe Online devs said about MS.

Sorcerer Supreme · Jun 17, 2016

b-but the ball is in sony's court!!!

yea right

KingBroly · Jun 17, 2016

Sorcerer Supreme said:
b-but the ball is in sony's court!!!

yea right

Kinda hard to tell when we don't know what these restrictions are. It could still be a monetary issue, which I think was the issue the last time we heard about this.

Wace · Jun 17, 2016

I'm not sure about FFXIV - haven't touched it in a while - but for Sony/PC crossplay I'm engaged in there are two major grievances with Sony for all the players:
- Sony doesn't allow using elsewhere-created account for PS4 client;
- Sony doesn't allow real-money purchases to be done anywhere but PS Store.

While both aren't really nice, it's still acceptable for most of the players. Developers also mentioned about other restrictions from Sony, like displayed technical information regulations (no ping/fps info) etc, but that wasn't official (support forums), so I can't say if true.

Now, having said that, I wonder what other things MS can require.

Walpurgis · Jun 17, 2016

Heh. Typical. I was one of those people thinking that the ball was in Sony's court but Microsoft going to Microsoft. Always the same.

Collateral22 · Jun 17, 2016

Didn't MS say that cross play could happen with any W10 device? Thatt's my understanding of it, no way a PS4 will ever run W10.

Chronospherics · Jun 17, 2016

Caayn said:
This doesn't come as a surprise. I've said this before and will say it again: Policies are holding back true cross-platform play.
Great way to start a thread....

While this is true, I also feel that policies and procedure help ensure that most of the systems that are present on console aren't jank and poorly functioning.

Let's imagine a world where devs didn't have to integrate the default friend system on PS4 and XBOX, and could use whatever system they fancied in game. That would be very convoluted for a lot of developers.

I suspect that's part of the problem here in honesty. It would not surprise me if XBL policy is that you must reference the XBL ID when matchmaking etc. but that doesn't work for cross platform, MMO play, where you need to make unique IDs on a new system, and the XBL ID would be functionally disregarded.

Even on PS4, the lack of PSN consumers ability to access a use external ID systems within certain games means that we do not have true cross platform play on games like Rocket League. You cannot enter parties or join private games with people on PC, so functionally there is no benefit to the PC/PS4 cross platform play. If anything, PC cross platform play is detrimental to the PS4 userbase, as they can run the game at higher framerates creating an asynchronous and sometimes unfair advantage, while other ranking elements are also affected due to things like account smurfing only easily accessible on the PC version of the game.

Alucrid · Jun 17, 2016

Wace said:
I'm not sure about FFXIV - haven't touched it in a while - but for Sony/PC crossplay I'm engaged in there are two major grievances with Sony for all the players:
- Sony doesn't allow using elsewhere-created account for PS4 client;
- Sony doesn't allow real-money purchases to be done anywhere but PS Store.

While both aren't really nice, it's still acceptable for most of the players. Developers also mentioned about other restrictions from Sony, like displayed technical information regulations (no ping/fps info) etc, but that wasn't official (support forums), so I can't say if true.

Now, having said that, I wonder what other things MS can require.

what do you mean by this? because i'm pretty sure i used the same lodestone account for ff xiv on ps4 and pc.

zma1013 · Jun 17, 2016

TehGoomba said:
Didn't MS say that cross play could happen with any W10 device? Thatt's my understanding of it, no way a PS4 will ever run W10.

Could it run it as an app?

The Faceless Master · Jun 17, 2016

looks like the balls are in Sony's court and WB's court and Square Enix's court.

these companies need to stop leaving their balls rolling around in their courts like that.

LewieP · Jun 17, 2016

Was pretty obvious to me when MS announced it but didn't have any announcements of games that would be using this new policy.

The simple fact that they want a user togglable option of "Play with everyone" and "Play with only other people on Xbox" is obviously going to break things for many game types.

Allowing cross platform multiplayer to happen is one thing, being open enough so that actually implementing it is practical for more developers is an entirely different matter.

Microsoft is obviously the roadblock, rather than Sony. Sony actually have cross platform multiplayer already implemented in a range of third party games.

Wace · Jun 17, 2016

Alucrid said:
what do you mean by this? because i'm pretty sure i used the same lodestone account for ff xiv on ps4 and pc.

I mean that if I try to log in using account created on PC, I can't and I'm requested to create a new one. If I use PS4-created account on PC - it works flawlessly. Note that I'm talking about F2P game (War Thunder), so that may be an issue. FFXIV client, as far as I remember, should be bought via Sony, but subscription fee goes directly to SE, doesn't it?

I.e., the only way for Sony to get money from F2P game with cross-play is to make purchases through PSStore mandatory, and for that they need to have some power over the account. My guesses, not sure if it's the way it works.

pastrami · Jun 17, 2016

TehGoomba said:
Didn't MS say that cross play could happen with any W10 device? Thatt's my understanding of it, no way a PS4 will ever run W10.

Before their stance changed, cross-platform games had to use the Xbox Live service. That meant using Windows 10 and their Xbox APIs for multiplayer. It's no wonder that the only titles announced with cross-platform multiplayer before the change were Microsoft published titles.

They no longer have those requirements, but we have no idea what other requirements or restrictions they may still have.

InsaneTiger · Jun 17, 2016

The Faceless Master said:
looks like the balls are in Sony's court and WB's court and Square Enix's court.

these companies need to stop leaving their balls rolling around in their courts like that.

There are balls everywhere.

Crimson_Gold · Jun 17, 2016

Not surprising. It was too ambiguous of an announcement to be an all encompassing thing. Gonna have to see how it all plays out. The comments from SE on this makes it appear far more restrictive than many were led to believe

ps3ud0 · Jun 17, 2016

We need ball boys - its a H&S issue having all these balls on one side of the court

ps3ud0 8)

Caayn · Jun 17, 2016

TehGoomba said:
Didn't MS say that cross play could happen with any W10 device? Thatt's my understanding of it, no way a PS4 will ever run W10.

You're sure that you're not confused with the XBL minecraft thingy they announced during the E3 presser?

Chronospherics said:
While this is true, I also feel that policies and procedure help ensure that most of the systems that are present on console aren't jank and poorly functioning.

Let's imagine a world where devs didn't have to integrate the default friend system on PS4 and XBOX, and could use whatever system they fancied in game. That would be very convoluted for a lot of developers.

I suspect that's part of the problem here in honesty. It would not surprise me if XBL policy is that you must reference the XBL ID when matchmaking etc. but that doesn't work for cross platform, MMO play, where you need to make unique IDs on a new system, and the XBL ID would be functionally disregarded.

Even on PS4, the lack of PSN consumers ability to access a use external ID systems within certain games means that we do not have true cross platform play on games like Rocket League. You cannot enter parties or join private games with people on PC, so functionally there is no benefit to the PC/PS4 cross platform play. If anything, PC cross platform play is detrimental to the PS4 userbase, as they can run the game at higher framerates creating an asynchronous and sometimes unfair advantage, while other ranking elements are also affected due to things like account smurfing only easily accessible on the PC version of the game.

Exactly. Note that I'm not saying that policies need to disappear

Rather as long as we don't know the exact policies we can only do guesses based on the tiny bits of info we have. So "the ball is in Sony's court" or "Fucking hell MS" are completely of the mark here.

Guess Who · Jun 17, 2016

Wace said:
I'm not sure about FFXIV - haven't touched it in a while - but for Sony/PC crossplay I'm engaged in there are two major grievances with Sony for all the players:
- Sony doesn't allow using elsewhere-created account for PS4 client;
- Sony doesn't allow real-money purchases to be done anywhere but PS Store.

FFXIV does neither of these. You can use SE accounts created elsewhere to play, and there's a real-money item shop SE hosts online separate from the PS Store.

That said, it's entirely possible SE got an exception to the rules much like they did for FFXI on 360.

SomedayTheFire · Jun 17, 2016

SHOCKING NEWS. Still can't believe this has to be explained to people every time there's a cross play thread.

The End · Jun 17, 2016

Wace said:
I mean that if I try to log in using account created on PC, I can't and I'm requested to create a new one. If I use PS4-created account on PC - it works flawlessly. Note that I'm talking about F2P game (War Thunder), so that may be an issue. FFXIV client, as far as I remember, should be bought via Sony, but subscription fee goes directly to SE, doesn't it?

I.e., the only way for Sony to get money from F2P game with cross-play is to make purchases through PSStore mandatory, and for that they need to have some power over the account. My guesses, not sure if it's the way it works.

I know both Warframe and Smite required you to create a second PSN account and then they copied over your progress/inventory but not your credits.

I think FFXIV let you create an account on PC first and play it on PS4, but I'm not sure.

guybrushfreeman · Jun 17, 2016

Wace said:
I'm not sure about FFXIV - haven't touched it in a while - but for Sony/PC crossplay I'm engaged in there are two major grievances with Sony for all the players:
- Sony doesn't allow using elsewhere-created account for PS4 client;
- Sony doesn't allow real-money purchases to be done anywhere but PS Store.

While both aren't really nice, it's still acceptable for most of the players. Developers also mentioned about other restrictions from Sony, like displayed technical information regulations (no ping/fps info) etc, but that wasn't official (support forums), so I can't say if true.

Now, having said that, I wonder what other things MS can require.

You're wrong about both those things actually.

Edit: always beaten anyway.

capylikesgames · Jun 17, 2016

Well obviously the ball is no longer in Sony's court if they responded. Still, I'm not nipping at MS unless they shove this entire thing under the rug, now. They're still in discussion, so who knows? Maybe this will end up a little more concrete later this year.

Wace · Jun 17, 2016

guybrushfreeman said:
You're wrong about both those things actually.

Edit: always beaten anyway.

As I've said above - these applies to the one F2P game. Not FFXIV, that, on the other hand, requires each version of the client to be purchased separately, regardless of existing accounts.

The Jackdog · Jun 17, 2016

Walpurgis said:
Heh. Typical. I was one of those people thinking that the ball was in Sony's court but Microsoft going to Microsoft. Always the same.

we have no idea what the policies on either side are.

one could be technical policies that make networking difficult or more difficult
another could be company policies as well.

we literally have no idea. blaming either side is dumb until theres more info

ThoughtsOfSpeaking · Jun 17, 2016

its pretty obvious that microsoft isnt going to allow cross platform play that doesnt have some kind of kickback to Xbox or windows 10 as a whole.

likewise no way Sony is going to allow cross platform play that promotes another competing service. Only reason steam was allowed is Valve really isnt a competitor.

the whole thing is a non-starter.

Trup1aya · Jun 17, 2016

I was hoping we'd get to see what those restrictions are...

geordiemp · Jun 17, 2016

Wace said:
I'm not sure about FFXIV - haven't touched it in a while - but for Sony/PC crossplay I'm engaged in there are two major grievances with Sony for all the players:
- Sony doesn't allow using elsewhere-created account for PS4 client;
- Sony doesn't allow real-money purchases to be done anywhere but PS Store.

While both aren't really nice, it's still acceptable for most of the players. Developers also mentioned about other restrictions from Sony, like displayed technical information regulations (no ping/fps info) etc, but that wasn't official (support forums), so I can't say if true.

Now, having said that, I wonder what other things MS can require.

Black ops 3 displays ping in menus for every game on ps4

CrimsonEclipse · Jun 17, 2016

Thought this was obvious, one of the big regulations is most likely the option of having xbox console players having the option of only playing with console players.

Nothing really new here....

NoblesseOblige · Jun 17, 2016

I would expect regulation in the Ms. Cross Network Play pageant.

MilHombreLobo · Jun 17, 2016

That Ms Cross Network Play sounds like a kinky lass

Okami Haundo · Jun 17, 2016

Wace said:
I'm not sure about FFXIV - haven't touched it in a while - but for Sony/PC crossplay I'm engaged in there are two major grievances with Sony for all the players:
- Sony doesn't allow using elsewhere-created account for PS4 client;
- Sony doesn't allow real-money purchases to be done anywhere but PS Store.

I seem to recall that FFXI on Xbox 360 required MS breaking their normal rules on purchases outside the Xbox storefront. I'm sure that's not the whole issue here but it could certainly be part of it.

guybrushfreeman · Jun 17, 2016

Wace said:
As I've said above - these applies to the one F2P game. Not FFXIV, that, on the other hand, requires each version of the client to be purchased separately, regardless of existing accounts.

Fair enough, I was only thinking of FFXIV. I guess we can surmise Sony has different policies for F2P and B2P games which makes sense I suppose.

levious · Jun 17, 2016

TehGoomba said:
Didn't MS say that cross play could happen with any W10 device? Thatt's my understanding of it, no way a PS4 will ever run W10.

I don't think w10 is required for rocket league pc/xone network play.

Toki767 · Jun 17, 2016

Had a feeling this was going to happen. Microsoft was merely going for the PR victory when they announced supporting cross network play. It still hasn't really been implemented in anything but a handful of games.

GuitarAtomik · Jun 17, 2016

Considering these specific comments along with the DCUO devs, and keeping in mind that everything is good to go for Rocket League more or less, whatever regulations there are seem to negatively impact MMOs specifically (I'm sure not exclusively though). I'm curious if it has something to do with communication (eg Xbox and PS4 players can't message or voice chat with each other), or something else. I'm trying to think of things they could be asking for that isn't relevant to a game like Rocket League, but is to MMOs.

TalonJH · Jun 17, 2016

Wace said:
I'm not sure about FFXIV - haven't touched it in a while - but for Sony/PC crossplay I'm engaged in there are two major grievances with Sony for all the players:
- Sony doesn't allow using elsewhere-created account for PS4 client;
- Sony doesn't allow real-money purchases to be done anywhere but PS Store.

While both aren't really nice, it's still acceptable for most of the players. Developers also mentioned about other restrictions from Sony, like displayed technical information regulations (no ping/fps info) etc, but that wasn't official (support forums), so I can't say if true.

Now, having said that, I wonder what other things MS can require.

Both of these are incorrect as far as FFXIV goes. I can go back in forth between my PC version and my PS4 version. Also, all purchases and subscriptions in FFXIV are handled through the mogstation outside PSN. You can't pay for anything through PSN.

Chronospherics said:
Even on PS4, the lack of PSN consumers ability to access a use external ID systems within certain games means that we do not have true cross platform play on games like Rocket League. You cannot enter parties or join private games with people on PC, so functionally there is no benefit to the PC/PS4 cross platform play. If anything, PC cross platform play is detrimental to the PS4 userbase, as they can run the game at higher framerates creating an asynchronous and sometimes unfair advantage, while other ranking elements are also affected due to things like account smurfing only easily accessible on the PC version of the game.

In FFXIV, you can party with PC(Steam or Non-Steam version), PS3 and PS4 players. MMOs don't usually use an outside party system.

Tigress · Jun 17, 2016

madmackem said:
Plenty said when they announced it and everyone was like over to you Sony that it wouldn't be as simple as it being open and ms would have regulations etc. Wonder what they are?.

I don't even understand the people who said "over to you" Sony. Far as I know Sony had nothing against it but MS did (and this is pretty much full on MS why we didn't have cross platform) and MS also regulated that if you had a game on xbox it couldn't have features different than one on another platform. Meaning that no allowing cross platform on Sony but not MS. Leading to Squaresoft saying then we won't release FFXIV on xbox because we want cross platform and that is more important.

I mean if Sony had a problem with it, why are they allowing cross play with PC?

ViciousDS · Jun 17, 2016

Wace said:
As I've said above - these applies to the one F2P game. Not FFXIV, that, on the other hand, requires each version of the client to be purchased separately, regardless of existing accounts.

I'm going to say that's a square enix thing......because you could buy FFXI once and as long as you owned the discs for any other platform it worked. Square Enix could easily just make the fucking client free to download and use. I mean all files are installed, and updated in the client. The subscription and everything else is handled on their website. Outside of buying the game on PSN all purchases are external......this is definitely square enix forcing users to buy the game and content again.

bananafactory · Jun 17, 2016

Tigress said:
I don't even understand the people who said "over to you" Sony. Far as I know Sony had nothing against it but MS did (and this is pretty much full on MS why we didn't have cross platform) and MS also regulated that if you had a game on xbox it couldn't have features different than one on another platform. Meaning that no allowing cross platform on Sony but not MS. Leading to Squaresoft saying then we won't release FFXIV on xbox because we want cross platform and that is more important.

I mean if Sony had a problem with it, why are they allowing cross play with PC?

Everyone is talking out of their ass because no one knows what's happening behind the scenes and don't understand the actual things that need to happen on a technical, business, security, and policy level for everyone involved with these types of things since they have never had to deal with it.

starpiercer · Jun 17, 2016

It seems that MS set up some regulations that don't sit well with Yoshida and the FF14 crew. Maybe MS should have look into these polices if they keep on getting rejecting.

sangreal · Jun 17, 2016

The trend here seems to only be related to MMOs, which we already heard from the DCUO developers months ago

MS has very specific requirements on what would be and would not be allowed in implementing cross play, and as it stands now it would be a waste of time for us as an MMO. I can't go into further detail.

"Microsoft actually approached the Final Fantasy 14 team about the cross-platform opportunity," Yoshida told Polygon. "When our team reviewed the regulations that are associated with that, we realized that Microsoft may not have the experience or understanding of running an MMORPG as an online game genre just yet. The Final Fantasy 14 team has fed back to Microsoft that there are certain elements of its regulations that we would have to consider waived. We're waiting on Microsoft's response for that, but we are having discussions.

The Square quote is kind of funny because Microsoft has run MMORPGs in the past

Xaero Gravity · Jun 17, 2016

We have no idea what the policies on either side are, so at this point I'm just going to blame both Sony and Microsoft.

Kayant · Jun 17, 2016

As expected I guess for some people need it to be plainly laid out by a dev before they understand that being "Open" to something /=/ anything is allowed.

TehGoomba said:
Didn't MS say that cross play could happen with any W10 device? Thatt's my understanding of it, no way a PS4 will ever run W10.

Why do you keep on bringing this misinformation in every cross-plat thread? Even though you where in the thread where this requirement was lifted.

JetBlackPanda · Jun 17, 2016

Toki767 said:
Had a feeling this was going to happen. Microsoft was merely going for the PR victory when they announced supporting cross network play. It still hasn't really been implemented in anything but a handful of games.

It was clear as day.

-Rocket League comes out on PS4/PC with cross platform play.

-Game comes to Xbox.

-Xbox says cross platform with Rocket League Xbox and PC is now a thing

-Xbox says we now support cross platform play the ball is in Sony's court.

Does this make any sense? Somehow Microsoft did exactly what Sony was already doing with Rocket League since launch and turned it into a knock against Sony.

the entire thing is just bizarre, Sony has had multiple games that are cross platform. Microsoft cant set the rules for cross platform with them and they say. Well Either play ball or not "why don't you support cross play?"

Goodacre0081 · Jun 17, 2016

why is there always i giant fucking asterisk to go along with every MS announcement ?

Chris1 · Jun 17, 2016

Judging by Yoshida's statement about how MMORPG's are run,it sounds like the policy in question is the one about there having an option to play with only xbox people aswell. Which we knew about from the start.

I don't think it's a bad policy, I'm glad it's there for when games have an advantage on PC. Of course it sucks that it doesn't really fit an MMO, I think MS should make certain exceptions in that case.

Support NeoGAF

Ms cross network play comes with regulations.

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Unconfirmed Member

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Unconfirmed Member

That throwing stick stunt of yours has boomeranged on us.

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Member

NEXT LEVEL lame™

Member

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads