Patrick Klepek
furiously molesting tim burton
Love is a myth too, fyi. I don't want my kids growing up believing in that nonsense. Life sucks and my kids are going to know it.
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Anyone with kids choosing not to perpetuate the Santa myth?
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JoshuaJSlone
Member
eXxy said:
If I come up with a dozen cool characters, can I claim you guys suck and have no soul for not teaching your kids to believe in them? What's the big deal about this one in particular?Pimpbaa said:
SnakeswithLasers
Member
JoshuaJSlone said:
It's not the character, it's the grand illusion of belief in possibility. Might as well let them enjoy it while they can. Why is that so hard to allow?
Just because everyone has to live in reality from age 18+ (depending on the person), doesn't mean you have to kick your kids in the teeth with it before their time.
They'll figure it all out on their own, why be the a**hole parent that spoils their fun?
Shit, it's like, sure, read the Santa Claus books and sing the songs, they're fun. We're not saying, hey, let's kill Christmas, I hate fun, bah humbug.
You don't tell the kids Hanzel and Gretel or X-Wing starfighters or Merlin the wizard are real, so why tell them about a fat dude in a red suit with magical powers that lives at the North Pole, then tell them he is absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, real.
You don't tell the kids Hanzel and Gretel or X-Wing starfighters or Merlin the wizard are real, so why tell them about a fat dude in a red suit with magical powers that lives at the North Pole, then tell them he is absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, real.
Patrick Klepek
furiously molesting tim burton
Because it's fun and the kids get incredibly excited? It's part of the spectacle of Christmas.
SANTA CLAUS ... DECEPTION ... SERIOUS BUSINESS
Never said people who don't perpetuate Santa Claus don't have a soul -- I'm just amused at the hyperbole associated with "lying" to kids.
SANTA CLAUS ... DECEPTION ... SERIOUS BUSINESS
JoshuaJSlone said:
Never said people who don't perpetuate Santa Claus don't have a soul -- I'm just amused at the hyperbole associated with "lying" to kids.
soul creator
Member
eXxy said:
are you saying it's impossible for a kid to get excited about christmas and santa without believing it's a literal character?
Kids do it with every other cartoon/movie/book/video game character...
Patrick Klepek
furiously molesting tim burton
Did I say that? It's perfectly acceptable for someone to avoid the whole Santa thing, but its "opponents" are demonizing its existence in this thread, which is far from borderline ridiculous: it's retarded.
SnakeswithLasers
Member
JayDubya said:
You make a good point ... you really do. I just honestly don't see "why not". It's the one time in a person's life that they're going to get to believe in something that is just fun and magical and real and it can make for a nice memory. I remember thinking all of that jazz was real and it was a nice feeling that I still remember.
I wish to hell I could go back to that point, but I can't. However, I'd like to at least let my kid have those same silly dreams and fantasies, and I'm more than willing to help them with it. It doesn't mean your kid will grow up daft or dysfunctional, they'll just have a nice memory.
You (in particular) have also learned how not to do it (you were hurt by your parents taking it too far) and you won't string your kid along for that long, so you don't have to worry about your particular issue and can just focus on how nice it felt to believe in Santa.
Just my opinion though.
soul creator
Member
eXxy said:
well, you were responding to someone who used the example of kids still having fun with fictional characters while not believing they're literally "real".
Patrick Klepek
furiously molesting tim burton
soul creator said:
Yes, but the point of Santa Claus is that he is "real." Kids flip out for Harry Potter because the universe, storylines and character are engaging and entertaining.
SnakeswithLasers said:
Yeah, you've got a point, too. There's no harm in it when they're really little, but I dunno, I really want to have an honest and open relationship with my kid. Seems like a bad thing to do, since I had my feelings hurt by it, but if most people didn't have that reaction, I guess that's just my own childish idiosyncrasy on display.
I suppose I could Obi-Wan it and tell her stuff that's true "from a certain point of view." Of course, even as a little kid I thought Obi-Wan was a jerk for not just being straight with Luke. :lol
SnakeswithLasers
Member
JayDubya said:
I don't think Santa is mutually exclusive to an open and honest relationship. It's a silly fantastical thing that the kid will love until they're old enough to doubt it, in which case you'll be able to explain it to them (we all know you're a really intelligent dude) without breaking any trust.
My parents took the "Well, Santa is for kids, but now that you're not a little kid I can tell you that he isn't real" type of approach (not verbatim, but something like that) and I didn't hate them or feel that I was deceived, I just felt like I was getting bigger and turning into an equal...even though I was like 6.
I'm starting to wonder if there is a connection between folks who won't tell their kinds about Santa Claus and folks who hate their parents.
Is there? Several folks posted saying they were angry at their parents, and how they'd never tell their kids about S.C., whereas most of the other folks seem to have no problem with Santa.
Is there? Several folks posted saying they were angry at their parents, and how they'd never tell their kids about S.C., whereas most of the other folks seem to have no problem with Santa.
I'm not a big fan of my mom -- and I seriously doubt people who hate their parents also have some underlying blind rage for Santa. The point people are trying to make is that some times the parents take it too far and end up shattering all the myth, fantasy, and magic about the tale when they tell them it's all a lie, not that their parents sucked.DavidDayton said:
-jinx- said:
Mute said:
I didn't mean to imply that there was -- rather, I was asking for information, as I was curious as to whether there was any connection. It was just a theory, based on the idea that folks who generally like there parents would seem to be more likely to want to repeat their child rearing (including Santa), whereas those who disliked them and/or saw them as dishonest might opt to refuse the things they did.
Sorry, I didn't mean to be inflammatory, I was just being curious.
Religious? I grew up in a non-religious household and I still had fun believing the whole santa thing. I wouldn't really ruin that for a kid if I ever decided to have any. Believing in Santa was alot of fun. Especially leaving out cookies and milk and finding that "santa" ate them. 
My sister and I were raised believing in Santa. "Santa" got me a lot of presents back in the day, including the Game Boy and Super Mario Land in 1993. When my parents revealed that "Santa" was them (and my grandma), I remember being incredibly sad, but came over it pretty soon once I realized it was all them that whole time. I still have a good relationship with my parents.
My cousins on the other hand were told from the get-go that Santa wasn't real. My uncle wanted to take all the credit he got for the presents he bought them I guess. They all turned out relatively fine, but there was a period where two of them were just little hellions.
In the end, it depends how good a parent you are and how mature you think your kid is. There's nothing wrong about the Santa myth. It's a fun thing to believe in when you're a kid. Why not?
My cousins on the other hand were told from the get-go that Santa wasn't real. My uncle wanted to take all the credit he got for the presents he bought them I guess. They all turned out relatively fine, but there was a period where two of them were just little hellions.
In the end, it depends how good a parent you are and how mature you think your kid is. There's nothing wrong about the Santa myth. It's a fun thing to believe in when you're a kid. Why not?
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
so there are people who feel betrayed and deceived, and resent their parents' decision to make them believe in santa claus as a kid?
wow.
if that's the case, you take life way too seriously.
wow.
if that's the case, you take life way too seriously.
D'ultimate
Member
My daughter stop believing in Santa when she was about 5. Her mom and I told her up to that point told her there was a Santa but we didn't really try to sell it too hard.
She stopped believing in tooth fairies and all that other stuff too shortly thereafter.
I think it makes life more simple. You know presents are from mom and dad and if you don't do as we say then you might not get what you want. Plus we don't have to be constantly selling the Santa thing for a whole month.
I remember her telling some kid Santa wasn't real and seeing the crushed look on his face. We had to tell her that not everyone realizes this but just to respect their opinion.
She stopped believing in tooth fairies and all that other stuff too shortly thereafter.
I think it makes life more simple. You know presents are from mom and dad and if you don't do as we say then you might not get what you want. Plus we don't have to be constantly selling the Santa thing for a whole month.
I remember her telling some kid Santa wasn't real and seeing the crushed look on his face. We had to tell her that not everyone realizes this but just to respect their opinion.
travisbickle
Member
Why do people care so much. My Mum used to do the whole stocking at the end of a bed, and I thought it was pretty rational that Father Christmas would get each kid a couple of presents and a satsuma.
I don't know what crazy parent would allow their child to think Santa brings the video ipod or PS3, but to allow them to believe an old guy with a beard goes around giving all kids, even less fortunate ones, a present or two seems fine to me.
I don't know what crazy parent would allow their child to think Santa brings the video ipod or PS3, but to allow them to believe an old guy with a beard goes around giving all kids, even less fortunate ones, a present or two seems fine to me.
Powerslave
Banned
Believing in Santa makes you a supporter of Coca-Cola
ConsumerSquare
Member
I was sick as hell during one Christmas Eve night. I was in pain and needed help, but I was afraid to get up or call for mom because of all the stories about how Santa is easily spooked, and trying to catch him will scare him off. So it was either make noise and ruin Christmas, or suffer in bed. I think it was the following year when they told me Santa wasn't real.
I'm on the fence about this, so my wife will probably be the tie-breaker. And I think she's fiercely opposed to the Santa lie.
I'm on the fence about this, so my wife will probably be the tie-breaker. And I think she's fiercely opposed to the Santa lie.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
I can live with this.
But seriously, I can't speak for anyone else, but I enjoyed believing in Santa. I think adults perpetuate it because through their kids they can kinda believe in Santa again too. It's something our society does, and I can't help but think if I had missed out on it, I'd not only have had less fun then, but I'd have had less fun with my younger bro and sis, and less fun now with younger cousins and such. Even adults like to make-believe sometimes.
Though when I found out Spider-Man wasn't real, there was hell to pay. Worst 21st birthday ever.
My parents never sat me down and said: hey, boy... santa isn't real, ok? He's just a ****ing icon created by the materialist assholes in usa.
No, they never bothered with it, and I never believed he existed, but I liked him as a character and icon. I'm probably gonna go the same way with my kids.
No, they never bothered with it, and I never believed he existed, but I liked him as a character and icon. I'm probably gonna go the same way with my kids.
I have two kids and I don't know what's best to do. At first I thought I didn't want to lie about things in general to my kids. I was upset that my parents lied to me about it, plus a year or so after I found out Santa wasn't real my parents lied to me about my dog that they had to put to sleep. I pressed them about the truth with that and after having found out, the two events together left me a bit bitter.
My first son, upon finding out that Santa wasn't real was very sad, but only because he felt bad that we gave him those gifts and he never gave us anything. He got over it fine.
My second son is in Kindergarten and has decided that Santa is real without my suggestion one way or the other. So we'll see how well he takes it later.
My first son, upon finding out that Santa wasn't real was very sad, but only because he felt bad that we gave him those gifts and he never gave us anything. He got over it fine.
My second son is in Kindergarten and has decided that Santa is real without my suggestion one way or the other. So we'll see how well he takes it later.
AlanHemberger
Banned
WTF is wrong with you people? You guys are acting like it's a gigantic deal.
I'm going to wait to see what my daughter learns first. If she comes up to me and asks about Santa, I'm going to tell her the stories about him, but I'm not going to say "OH MY GOD, I SAW HIM LAST YEAR ON THE ROOF!!!" If she gets excited about it, I'll tell her "Well, I've never seen him but supposedly... blah blah blah"
Why the **** would you ever want to crush their spirits when they get excited about something that is HARMLESS?
But on the other hand, I would never push the myth onto my daughter because then it loses the "magic" that the myth was intended for anyways.
I'm going to wait to see what my daughter learns first. If she comes up to me and asks about Santa, I'm going to tell her the stories about him, but I'm not going to say "OH MY GOD, I SAW HIM LAST YEAR ON THE ROOF!!!" If she gets excited about it, I'll tell her "Well, I've never seen him but supposedly... blah blah blah"
Why the **** would you ever want to crush their spirits when they get excited about something that is HARMLESS?
But on the other hand, I would never push the myth onto my daughter because then it loses the "magic" that the myth was intended for anyways.
For what it's worth, there were three reasons that I didn't grow up believing in Santa:
1 I was raised in a Catholic household, and the stated purpose of Christmas was to celebrate Jesus' birthday.
2) My parents thought lying to children was ALWAYS a bad thing.
3) Christmas gifts are supposed to be symbols of how much certain people loved us -- we should thank and appreciate them, and not some mythical gift-giving creature.
If and when I have kids, I don't plan to pretend that Santa exists for reasons #2 and #3.
1 I was raised in a Catholic household, and the stated purpose of Christmas was to celebrate Jesus' birthday.
2) My parents thought lying to children was ALWAYS a bad thing.
3) Christmas gifts are supposed to be symbols of how much certain people loved us -- we should thank and appreciate them, and not some mythical gift-giving creature.
If and when I have kids, I don't plan to pretend that Santa exists for reasons #2 and #3.
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
If and when I have kids, Im going to let them believe in santa because its just a bit of harmless fun. They might be upset about finding out he doesnt exist at first, but when they grow up they will just look back at it and laugh. It seems silly to hold a grudge against your parents over something like that.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
No one in my family celebrates Christmas for religious reasons and I remember when I was younger and kids found out about it they were always shoked and thought that my parents were horrible people and I was locked in a basement and fed through a colastame(no idea) bag. But It was never a big deal to me my family always got us presents all year long so it wasnt like we were missing out. And since we knew the reason we didnt celebrate christmas we never missed it. As my experience relates to your question though I think If I did celebrate christmas I would probably let my kids know santa wasnt real and make it more of a experience that relates to all of us just caring about each other. I think santa makes it impersonal I would want my kid to know we were giving out of our hearts because we all cared for each other. Just my 02 though.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
When I was a kid, there were two categories of Christmas presents; items with tags on them identifying the giver, and Santa's presents, which always appeared on Christmas morning along with the stockings.
What seems a bit different from the typical story is that as best I can recall, I didn't /quite/ believe in Santa in always the most unquestioning way. Like I didn't expect him to show up on time with the mundanity of the Fed Ex man. Santa was more like this special possibility that could happen. Like really hoping this one good thing will come about, and not quite believing in it until it did.
Which also makes it a bit odd in that I don't ever remember really not believing in Santa abruptly, by finding out "The Lie". The Santa possibility just became less central as I grew up and had other concerns, until it was sort of "okay" if I didn't really feel it was Santa who brought something on Christmas night.
Of course, perhaps partly because of that, Christmas still feels magical to me in some ways. It doesn't matter how rational I am or not; the thought of "it could happen" is still in place. Could also factor in that I'm anything but religious, yet do hold many metaphysical and philosophical views that make space for that "harsh, unforgiving reality" not always being quite what it seems, at least in potential
At any rate, that's sort of why I wouldn't choose to specifically "blow" Santa Claus to kids. Santa, in my view, is a bit different from a lot of cultural myths, traditions, and religious convictions because there's /not/ a state of everyone trying to assert Santa is absolutely real, an undying truth immune to all investigation or questioning. Santa is more of a phase, and as such, I don't see as harmful; if anything, potentially helpful, because kids will come to question it on their own, without having someone shove a Book of Rationality on them. And Santa potentially provides a lesson in how to accept non-literal possibilities that can affect life, and be very important, without always being as real as a pile of bricks you can kick.
What seems a bit different from the typical story is that as best I can recall, I didn't /quite/ believe in Santa in always the most unquestioning way. Like I didn't expect him to show up on time with the mundanity of the Fed Ex man. Santa was more like this special possibility that could happen. Like really hoping this one good thing will come about, and not quite believing in it until it did.
Which also makes it a bit odd in that I don't ever remember really not believing in Santa abruptly, by finding out "The Lie". The Santa possibility just became less central as I grew up and had other concerns, until it was sort of "okay" if I didn't really feel it was Santa who brought something on Christmas night.
Of course, perhaps partly because of that, Christmas still feels magical to me in some ways. It doesn't matter how rational I am or not; the thought of "it could happen" is still in place. Could also factor in that I'm anything but religious, yet do hold many metaphysical and philosophical views that make space for that "harsh, unforgiving reality" not always being quite what it seems, at least in potential
At any rate, that's sort of why I wouldn't choose to specifically "blow" Santa Claus to kids. Santa, in my view, is a bit different from a lot of cultural myths, traditions, and religious convictions because there's /not/ a state of everyone trying to assert Santa is absolutely real, an undying truth immune to all investigation or questioning. Santa is more of a phase, and as such, I don't see as harmful; if anything, potentially helpful, because kids will come to question it on their own, without having someone shove a Book of Rationality on them. And Santa potentially provides a lesson in how to accept non-literal possibilities that can affect life, and be very important, without always being as real as a pile of bricks you can kick.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
What? You don't teach your kids that there are REALLY burglars that they're the first line of defense from? And that if their forts fail, we're done for?sp0rsk said:
My kids (4 & 5) are huge believers in Santa. I'm not religious at all but its just such a good behavioral tool. This time of year is way to out of control and stressful nothing like a little you know who is watching to keep your kids in line. The magic of it all is just such good fun, that ability to believe is what being a kid is all about. I don't understand why people don't want that for there kids. The have there whole adult life to be stuck in reality. My children know I lie to them, they know the difference between a lie and betrayal.
KamikazeChick
Banned
Heh - Santa is real. Jaydub and I had vastly different experiences. My parents told me the truth when I asked, but they still gave me gifts from "Santa". They also told me about the historical version of Santa and the myths that surround him.
I think we'll do the same - give her presents from Santa until she asks. When she asks - we'll tell her about the historical figure and let her know that we give presents in his name to demonstrate generosity and love.
It worked on me.
I think we'll do the same - give her presents from Santa until she asks. When she asks - we'll tell her about the historical figure and let her know that we give presents in his name to demonstrate generosity and love.
It worked on me.
Ketchup Boy
Junior Member
Alucard said:"Daddy, is Santa going to come to our house tonight?"
"No son. He's not real, and I will not perpetuate falsehoods."
C'mon man.
hahahaha
Anyways, I don't remember if I ever believed in Santa. But I do remember believing in all that Christianity stuff about Heaven and Jesus and it was sweet.
Kaijima said:When I was a kid, there were two categories of Christmas presents; items with tags on them identifying the giver, and Santa's presents, which always appeared on Christmas morning along with the stockings.
What seems a bit different from the typical story is that as best I can recall, I didn't /quite/ believe in Santa in always the most unquestioning way. Like I didn't expect him to show up on time with the mundanity of the Fed Ex man. Santa was more like this special possibility that could happen. Like really hoping this one good thing will come about, and not quite believing in it until it did.
Which also makes it a bit odd in that I don't ever remember really not believing in Santa abruptly, by finding out "The Lie". The Santa possibility just became less central as I grew up and had other concerns, until it was sort of "okay" if I didn't really feel it was Santa who brought something on Christmas night.
Of course, perhaps partly because of that, Christmas still feels magical to me in some ways. It doesn't matter how rational I am or not; the thought of "it could happen" is still in place. Could also factor in that I'm anything but religious, yet do hold many metaphysical and philosophical views that make space for that "harsh, unforgiving reality" not always being quite what it seems, at least in potential
At any rate, that's sort of why I wouldn't choose to specifically "blow" Santa Claus to kids. Santa, in my view, is a bit different from a lot of cultural myths, traditions, and religious convictions because there's /not/ a state of everyone trying to assert Santa is absolutely real, an undying truth immune to all investigation or questioning. Santa is more of a phase, and as such, I don't see as harmful; if anything, potentially helpful, because kids will come to question it on their own, without having someone shove a Book of Rationality on them. And Santa potentially provides a lesson in how to accept non-literal possibilities that can affect life, and be very important, without always being as real as a pile of bricks you can kick.
Beast post. Kind of how I feel.
Patrick Klepek said:
lol doesn't this guy work for Giant Bomb?
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