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Lets be honest, anyone here still support the Iraq War(GOP'ers please come, its safe)

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Cheebs

Member
I am curious, are there anyone here at GAF who honestly supports the Iraq War still? Those conservatives who avoid political threads, please please reply I really want to know if any of you still support this.

The only one I can think of is Phoenix Dark, he is very open against pulling out troops but he is the only one I know of.... Anyone else? GAF has to have a few!
 

jarosh

Member
i hear pd likes this gif

lesboniab37a9c.gif
 

Odysseus

Banned
i don't like the idea of pulling out troops because i think the region will just explode once we do so, and we'll end up going back in some form anyway

at this point, there may be no right answer, to be quite honest

i still think going in and removing saddam was the right thing to do, but i think we could have gone about doing it so much better
 

Umino

Because certain people need something to talk about.
I think that we should either support the troops we have their or pull them all out. I'm not necessarily opposed to the extra 21500 (although I do feel for them and their families this is about numbers) and I don't believe that having more there will cause more to be killed. I think just the opposite. It's not like all 150,000 that we have their now have died. If we add more that's more troops covering the troops that are already their. I also believe that Iraq showed how far it was from civilization by hanging their former leader. Just barbaric.
 

emomoonbase

I'm free 2night after my LARPing guild meets.
I support the war in iraq. I also think abortion is a sin and should be outlawed, like gay ppl. Feel free to debate these with me if you like but with god on my side you will just look like a foolish ass.
 
Cheebs said:
Please? :( I said this thread is safe. No one will bash you.

Sounds like he doesn't want to get gangbanged and possibly banned lol. And I can't blame him.

But anyway THIS is what I had to say about Iraq; Cheebs took a soundbyte from it and twisted my words!

After we defeated Iraq's "army" most generals agreed that we didn't have enough troops to secure the country. We paid for that mistake. Today Bush wants to send more troops to do what should have been done 3 years ago. Wil this work? Honestly I don't know. If I had to vote on this I'd vote against a troop increase at this time.

At the same time I do not feel we should pull out of Iraq as soon as possible. We attacked Iraq, killed many of its people, and have left the country in shambles in many ways. It would be against my morals to merely leave that country to rot in its current state. We may not be able to "win" this war, but there are things we can do. We can get Iraq's water supplies running throughout the country. We can fix the power problems that plauge Baghdad and much of the country. We can continue to build schools there that will be filled with boys and girls. I do not believe for a second that we cannot do these things before we leave. This plan could still be put into effect now and meet the 6 month deadline some are calling for with respect to troop withdrawl.
 

Cheebs

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Sounds like he doesn't want to get gangbanged and possibly banned lol. And I can't blame him.

But anyway THIS is what I had to say about Iraq; Cheebs took a soundbyte from it and twisted my words!

After we defeated Iraq's "army" most generals agreed that we didn't have enough troops to secure the country. We paid for that mistake. Today Bush wants to send more troops to do what should have been done 3 years ago. Wil this work? Honestly I don't know. If I had to vote on this I'd vote against a troop increase at this time.

At the same time I do not feel we should pull out of Iraq as soon as possible. We attacked Iraq, killed many of its people, and have left the country in shambles in many ways. It would be against my morals to merely leave that country to rot in its current state. We may not be able to "win" this war, but there are things we can do. We can get Iraq's water supplies running throughout the country. We can fix the power problems that plauge Baghdad and much of the country. We can continue to build schools there that will be filled with boys and girls. I do not believe for a second that we cannot do these things before we leave. This plan could still be put into effect now and meet the 6 month deadline some are calling for with respect to troop withdrawl.
Hmmm...sounds like a right winger log cabin republican
 

Widfara

Banned
emomoonbase said:
I support the war in iraq. I also think abortion is a sin and should be outlawed, like gay ppl. Feel free to debate these with me if you like but with god on my side you will just look like a foolish ass.

dicks in butts is gross
 

Cheebs

Member
TemplaerDude said:
i smell a trap. ackbar says bad idea. i might get banned for saying stuff to apparently.
How can you get banned for it? 12% of Americans support it, there has to be some of those on GAF. Please? :( I don't know anyone who supports it and really want to see the mindset of support for the war in 2007.
 
my opinion probably doesn't even count since i'm canadian and probably 5% of canadians support the war.

besides i don't think the mods like me.
 

PROOP

FREAKING OUT MAN
I'm all for peace. I'm not anti-war, you won't see me at any anti-war protests because people have only one thought on their minds at them, war. It doesn't matter if these people are against war because it is not so simple to simply say no to things. Think about it, in any of the 'war against (insert anything)' cases, all it ever does is perpetuate the problem.



If someone were ever to initiate a peace march, I would be all for it.


I would elaborate more, but my date wants to watch a Miike movie :)
 
teruterubozu said:
Ironically, we'd probably kick their ass all over the place if we fought them here.

No, we need assert our power in THEIR backyard. So they learn a valuable lesson: Don't **** with America.
 

tnw

Banned
I still don't think they ever clearly explained why we invaded them in the first place, and I never felt like there was a strong enough reason for Iraq to become the focal point of american foreign policy. Lots of countries have bad leaders that should be toppled and have better governments instated. I never understood why Iraq was chosen, and I don't think that was ever explained well enough.

I have no idea what we should do now though. It's easy to hypothesize so many different outcomes of whatever action we take, and I don't really feel like whatever success is for that region, things are not in our favor.

I was watching Condi get grilled by a senate committee the other day where not a single person of any political party thought the new policy was one that they approved of. I don't even feel sorry for her/bush et all because they dug their own grave, but it must be frustrating at this point to try and resolve a seemingly unresolvable problem.

Anyway, I can't wait until we get a new administration (hopefully a democratic one), and I can feel comfortable about moving back to the US. America has been a bizarre place in my mind ever since Clinton left office.
 
I supported doing *something* on the basis that Saddam flouted UN resolutions for 11 years. He hindered weapons inspectors at every corner until forced via some amount of diplomatic pressure (threats basically) to let them do their work. It was no wonder a lot of people to believed he had something to hide. I also supported an attack on him because he was never held to account for his Gulf War crimes (our 'coalition' stood off while he violently quelled any hope of uprisings). Saddam only ever reached out to the UN and showed any sign of being complicit with UNSCRs when thousands of troops were already on his doorstep... it seemed to me more like an evil "relax guy!" rather than "Please. Take a look. We've got nothing to hide, international community". In the end, his posturing against the west let the war mongers get their way.

I was disappointed that the US and UK didn't get support from the UN. But then, I personally think the UN has proved itself completely impotent anyway. This is why I wasn't totally against America setting the precedent of ignoring it. The UN has been too slow now on many occasions in the past 20 years, and it costs lives!! The overwhelming voting power of the founding nations and old super powers has plagued not only this war, but it has aided the oppression of the Palestinian people (through the US support of Israel funnily enough). Like it or not, this is what rallys members of the Arab world to terrorism. This is at the very epicentre of the Arab world's disdain for the West.

I still believe that France, Germany, Russia and China were reluctant to stand against Iraq for strategic, socio-political and economic reasons. France controlled over 20% of Iraq's imports. France, like the others but moreso, was a principal trader in the oil-for-food programme. France had a contract with the Iraqis to develop oil fields in the south. Its thought some countries didn't want to see Saddam go to trial for the gas attacks on his own people -- and that maybe his execution was expediated to reflect that. There's speculation that Germany and the UK didn't want to see it happen because the finance and weapons deals involved would eventually be traced back to those same powers in the West. The US is often criticised for going after the Ba'athists because they previously backed them many years ago. Consider this in light of how the UN voted: the top three suppliers of defence technology to Iraq between 1981 and 2001 were Russia, China and France. Maybe the US did go to war on a false premise! But I say also, that maybe these countries opposed a united front against a known tyrant because thats what suited them! They DIDN'T do it purely out of some benign wish for peace.

Without the broad co-operation G Bush snr enjoyed in the first gulf war though, its been a disaster.

I've watched in horror as our governments failed to impliment any decent plan of action once the invasion was over. Both they and the military didn't seem to forsee the massive ethnic and religious divides that have opened up. There's been nothing but scandal in some campaigns -- I recall hearing that we 'evacuated' Fallujah (was it Fallujah?), supposedly leaving only insurgents... I also recall hearing that when men tried to leave we turned them back. Next thing I know, I'm on Youtube watching a soldier shoot an injured, unarmed man. There's Abu Ghraib and similar abuses... forgive me if I'm not spelling the locations correctly. Even the video of the soldiers teasing the kids with water sickened me. Then there's the fact that more people have died there since that famous "Mission Accomplished" picture, than during the actual invasion. That 100+ people can die on any given day. That our soldiers are falling victim to roadside bombs etc.

I'll now very carefully reconsider my stance on these matters in future. Maybe I'll be more inclined to think its better to not get involved. I just hope that in time, something positive comes out of this for Iraq and the wider region. Its not over yet.
 
Indeed. A meager increase of 17.5k troops in Baghdad won't alleviate any of the problems we're facing, either. We need at least another +90k to see any fruitful developments.
 
I think the troop increase is just Bush's way of giving it one last "scout's try" before ultimately pulling out so it doesn't look like he caved in so quickly.
 

Triumph

Banned
I do not support the war. I have been against the war from the beginning. I'll be against the war for the next 5? 10? years.

That said, sending the number of troops that we're sending is going to do nothing. If we actually wanted to "win" in Iraq, we would send about 10 times that number, and greatly accelerate the training of the Iraqi forces. We would also take out Al Sadr and the various militias. It could probably be accomplished within 2 years- i.e. by the time Bush leaves office. But the cost in money and lives would be hellish- probably more than 10,000 troops would die doing this, but it could probably break the back of whatever is over there, or piss other nations off enough to get involved and we'd have WWIV.
 
So what do you propose should happen.

Should we just abandon Iraq as a whole because of three problematic provinces?

This civil war shit is something has been in the works for quite some time. Sunnis are trying to recapture Iraq and Shiites are fighting back. This really isn't our business. We are just getting in the way.

We should stabilize the infrastructure of the stable Iraqi provinces before ever considering leaving.
 

Triumph

Banned
The Experiment said:
So what do you propose should happen.

Should we just abandon Iraq as a whole because of three problematic provinces?

This civil war shit is something has been in the works for quite some time. Sunnis are trying to recapture Iraq and Shiites are fighting back. This really isn't our business. We are just getting in the way.

We should stabilize the infrastructure of the stable Iraqi provinces before ever considering leaving.
It's too late. We ****ed it up from the very beginning of the occupation phase. The "war" phase was a staggering success- every single thing we've done since has been a mistake of hugely stupid proportions, from:

-Disbanding and sending home the Iraqi army
-Attempting to turn Iraq into some sort of uber-capitalistic, Thomas Friedmanesque wet dream for foreign investors and corporations instead of putting Iraqi infrastructure and rebuilding in the hands of Iraqis
-Failure to understand and recognize the vast cultural differences at play

Basically, we haven't done one thing right since the occupation began. Even things like putting Saddam on trial and executing him have exacerbated sectarian strife; when you have Shia there chanting "Muqtada! Muqtada! Muqtada!" at his execution, well you've ****ed something up.
 

PoliceCop

Banned
Supporting the war is a pretty simplistic term. For example, I do not support the tactics of implementation utilized by our military and government. At the same time, the prospect of complete troop removal is pretty much absurd, and really would do more harm than good.
 

Triumph

Banned
PoliceCop said:
Supporting the war is a pretty simplistic term. For example, I do not support the tactics of implementation utilized by our military and government. At the same time, the prospect of complete troop removal is pretty much absurd, and really would do more harm than good.
People keep saying that, but here's the thing: pretty much nothing we do at this point is going to make the situation BETTER. The prospect of increased involvement from Iraqi forces to help accomplish OUR goals is pretty dim, IMO. Thus we have two options: stand pat and try to hold onto what we have while taking losses over a longer time until we HAVE to leave, or leave now and not suffer those losses. I choose leave now. Iraq is going to be a Shia theocracy whether we want it or not in the long run. We ****ed up and it can't be fixed.
 
I supported the invasion for a variety of reasons. I had no idea we would **** it up as bad as we really have though.

There's absolutely nothing left for us to accomplish. Positively spinning this - we got rid of Saddam and instilled a democratic government. The sectarian violence will happen if we leave now or in 10 years. There's nothing we can do to stop it.

The Iraqis are the only ones who can save themselves. My buddy in the 325th Airborne Division in Baghdad right now can't save them and neither can any of his fellow soldiers.

Its simply time to leave.

Cut our losses, learn from the experience, and work to restore our credibility in the world community.

And just maybe refocus our efforts to go and get the guy who actually did attack us on 9/11.
 

VPhys

Member
GOPer here, but I have never supported the war nor have I ever supported Bush. Is my loyalty in question..
 

effzee

Member
siamesedreamer said:
I supported the invasion for a variety of reasons. I had no idea we would **** it up as bad as we really have though.

There's absolutely nothing left for us to accomplish. Positively spinning this - we got rid of Saddam and instilled a democratic government. The sectarian violence will happen if we leave now or in 10 years. There's nothing we can do to stop it.

The Iraqis are the only ones who can save themselves. My buddy in the 325th Airborne Division in Baghdad right now can't save them and neither can any of his fellow soldiers.

Its simply time to leave.

Cut our losses, learn from the experience, and work to restore our credibility in the world community.

And just maybe refocus our efforts to go and get the guy who actually did attack us on 9/11.


except if u leave the place as it is u will get the next generation of terrorists down the line who are born out of the chaos and would blame the US for it all....just like how it happened in Afghanistan....so basically its a lose lose and that was the whole point anti war ppl were trying to make. this was not just some political party ideological pre-war debate where since the REPUBLICAN president was heading it, ppl who identify themselves as not Republican politically argued for the sake of arguing (although im sure there were those). this was something that was fundamentally flawed.

i still remember and bring it up from time to time that i was watching BET one Saturday back in 02 right when the PRO WAR propaganda was in full force and the Bush administration was throwing any one of what seemed like 10 different reasons to go to war. why was i watching BET? cause Powell was on explaining to some black youth the reasons behind the need to go to war and i remember Powell saying how IF sadam was to comply with the UN and give up his weapons program we would not go in or attack....which at the time i thought "i guess thats a legit reason" even though almost every nation in the UN violates something, including the US and Israel. but this was followed up by "well SADAM is pure evil and we have to go save the IRAQIS!" and to this day i don't get how they got away with such a big contradiction and lie....but the funny thing is this is exactly what irritates the ppl of the middle east...the whole hypocrisy behind it all. sadam was always a bad guy and we never saved them b4 and now we suddenly want to both save the iraqis but also not go to war to remove sadam only if he complies to UN resolutions?

anyway that being said i think pulling out is a mistake...then u leave a breeding ground ala Afghanistan, although possibly more dangerous. whats made it worse is that the US as a part of the invasion enlisted the Shias, since they were really into getting rid of Sadam and some of these Shia militia grps rose out of this invasion with the pure intention of extracting revenge by going around killing Sunnis, which in return leads to wahabis, extreme sunnis, and the rest of the gang to get involved.....if only we were not so dumb...that divide and conquer crap does not work unless ur whole plan is to leave the place in ruins.

if we ever want to make this work i think we have to commit to staying and building some sort of economy as thats the only way a nation can survive and realize we will have to do this with honest intentions...meaning not looking to see what benefits us but what benefits the iraqis.
 
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