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AMD Radeon Fury X Series | HBM, Small Form Factor And Water Cooling | June 16th

UnrealEck

Member
I wonder why they went with HBM when it's limited to 4GB on the card. Did they just want to say they've got the new tech out first? It seems like a really big limitation for a flagship card that's got the GPU processing power for ultra high resolutions. I'm guessing the 390X will be essentially the 290X with a new name, so I don't see the point in buying that just for 8GB.
 

FLAguy954

Junior Member
I wonder why they went with HBM when it's limited to 4GB on the card. Did they just want to say they've got the new tech out first? It seems like a really big limitation for a flagship card that's got the GPU processing power for ultra high resolutions. I'm guessing the 390X will be essentially the 290X with a new name, so I don't see the point in buying that just for 8GB.

See this post as it shows that the 290/290X will be rebranded as the 380/380X, hopefully with Tonga's improvements.

The 390/X is going to be Fiji but we'll see if the 4 GB of HBM will be a bottleneck in benchmarks.
 

riflen

Member
I wonder why they went with HBM when it's limited to 4GB on the card. Did they just want to say they've got the new tech out first? It seems like a really big limitation for a flagship card that's got the GPU processing power for ultra high resolutions. I'm guessing the 390X will be essentially the 290X with a new name, so I don't see the point in buying that just for 8GB.

Probably delays. We first heard rumblings that this GPU would be arriving Q4 2014 or Q1 2015. Anyway, when you spend R&D money on technology, it makes sense to actually get it out there at some point so you can make a return of some kind. These technologies have a long development pipeline.

Also, there is an awful lot that the layman does not understand about how much VRAM is needed for any particular scenario. With GDDR5, to increase bandwidth needed to feed these GPUs, designers had to add more memory modules. This meant that capacity increased "for free". It was not always the case that more VRAM would actually be useful for said GPU.
As AMD have stated, there was essentially zero VRAM management going on with their GPUs with GDDR5 and a lot of data sitting in memory was never touched by the application.
AMD have some great engineers and I'm sure that Fiji is going to do very well in bandwidth limited scenarios, such as high resolutions combined with anti-aliasing.
 

Theonik

Member
Probably delays. We first heard rumblings that this GPU would be arriving Q4 2014 or Q1 2015. Anyway, when you spend R&D money on technology, it makes sense to actually get it out there at some point so you can make a return of some kind. These technologies have a long development pipeline.

Also, there is an awful lot that the layman does not understand about how much VRAM is needed for any particular scenario. With GDDR5, to increase bandwidth needed to feed these GPUs, designers had to add more memory modules. This meant that capacity increased "for free". It was not always the case that more VRAM would actually be useful for said GPU.
As AMD have stated, there was essentially zero VRAM management going on with their GPUs with GDDR5 and a lot of data sitting in memory was never touched by the application.
AMD have some great engineers and I'm sure that Fiji is going to do very well in bandwidth limited scenarios, such as high resolutions combined with anti-aliasing.
On the flip side, if you have lots of memory, it's better to just throw stuff on it. After all unused memory is wasted memory.
 

desu

Member
AMD basically needs to deliver better Titan X performance and less than or at price of the 980 Ti to do anything.

For me that wouldn't even be enough. Less power consumption, better out of the box cooling, and at least the same ram among other things.
 
For me that wouldn't even be enough. Less power consumption, better out of the box cooling, and at least the same ram among other things.

Well it depends on how much better or cheaper it is of course. 50% faster than the 980 Ti at the same price would be an easy sell for me, but that surely won't happen.
 

wildfire

Banned
I wonder why they went with HBM when it's limited to 4GB on the card. Did they just want to say they've got the new tech out first? It seems like a really big limitation for a flagship card that's got the GPU processing power for ultra high resolutions. I'm guessing the 390X will be essentially the 290X with a new name, so I don't see the point in buying that just for 8GB.



It allows them to make a bigger GPU while still saving money. Unstacked memory takes up a lot of space on the PCB.

It allows them to have a higher bandwidth. Higher bandwidth RAM at 4GB is better than low bandwidth RAM at 12 GB (but devs need to optimize their code to leverage correctly)

It allows them to lower heat output. This last point should be a big concern about what AMD will do with GPUs in their next architecture since they needed to water cool the 390X to compensate for their bigger GPU chip. (don't confuse the processor with the entire GPU which is still going to be smaller if it wasn't using a water cooling system)
 

Nachtmaer

Member
Another thing popped up on Chiphell. Could still be fake, but if it isn't. Oh boy.

desktop.jpg
 

Kiyo

Member
The same guy that posted that screenshot also posted expected prices apparently:

R9 380 4gb 199
R9 390 8gb 299
R9 390x 8gb 399
Fiji pro 4gb hbm 599
Fiji xt 4gb hbm 749
Fiji xt /xtx 8gb hbm 849
Fiji vr 2x8gb hbm 1399-1499

I'd probably be looking at the 8gb for $849 depending on how much it out performs the 980 Ti. If it's not much farther ahead then I'd probably just go with Nvidia for another couple of years.
 

Culex

Banned
The same guy that posted that screenshot also posted expected prices apparently:



I'd probably be looking at the 8gb for $849 depending on how much it out performs the 980 Ti. If it's not much farther ahead then I'd probably just go with Nvidia for another couple of years.

Makes no sense though... I thought AMD already stated 4 gig HBM is all we were getting this year?
 

Dezeer

Member
Huh, is it me or is that really high? For some reason I thought I read it was going to be around ~500GB/s.

Well one HBM package has a standard frequency of 1GHz making it able to transfer 128GB/s and four wide would be 512GB/s. I have no idea where the idea of 1.25GHz memory has started.
 

Theonik

Member
Well one HBM package has a standard frequency of 1GHz making it able to transfer 128GB/s and four wide would be 512GB/s. I have no idea where the idea of 1.25GHz memory has started.
Moreover, stacks at present do not exceed 4 layers high so 8GB really doesn't add up, and if they added 4 more packages you are looking at rates in excess of 1024GB/s at 1GHz rates.
 

DieH@rd

Banned
AMD said if you do HBM1 with 4 stacks, 4GB is the max, however you can add more stacks.

Of course you can just add more.... but I think they have 4GB because they have GPU memory controler optimized for 4086bit transfer. Their GPU cant connect to more than 4 HBM1 stacks [each has 1024bit connection].
 
I'm just relaying what they said

"You're not limited in this world to any number of stacks, but from a capacity point of view, this generation-one HBM, each DRAM is a two-gigabit DRAM, so yeah, if you have four stacks you're limited to four gigabytes. You could build things with more stacks, you could build things with less stacks. Capacity of the frame buffer is just one of our concerns. There are many things you can do to utilise that capacity better. So if you have four stacks you're limited to four [gigabytes], but we don't really view that as a performance limitation from an AMD perspective."

http://arstechnica.co.uk/informatio...d-hbm-why-amds-high-bandwidth-memory-matters/
 
AMD needs to start a real war with Nvidia and get that 8GB HBM card out this month.

If, as I expect, it's only the 4GB Fury card out this month and a series of rebadges too, and then the 8GB version to follow later in the year, Nvidia could really run away with the high-end market.
 

Randam

Member
Another thing popped up on Chiphell. Could still be fake, but if it isn't. Oh boy.

so 8gb hbm after all?

let's hope so.
don't know how 4gb could compite with 6 or even 12gb gddr5 vram.


and the chinese dude is talking about 4.700 - 5.000 Renminbi.
700 - 750 Euro.



and isn't the 380(X) going to be the hawaii 290(X) rebranded!?
and the 390(X) will be the 290(X) with tonga and 8gb!?
and then fury with fiji and hbm on top!?



and AMD said they will stay at 250 tdp.
 

matmanx1

Member
so 8gb hbm after all?

let's hope so.
don't know how 4gb could compite with 6 or even 12gb gddr5 vram.


and the chinese dude is talking about 4.700 - 5.000 Renminbi.
700 - 750 Euro.



and isn't the 380(X) going to be the hawaii 290(X) rebranded!?
and the 390(X) will be the 290(X) with tonga and 8gb!?
and then fury with fiji and hbm on top!?



and AMD said they will stay at 250 tdp.

For some reason I thought the 390X was going to be the new chipset with the HBM, not the rebranded 290X. Sounds like that has changed or is this still speculation at the moment?

I wouldn't mind a rebranded 290X at a decent pricepoint if the performance in The Witcher 3 improves significantly. Otherwise I will spend more to get the performance I want.
 

matmanx1

Member
The same guy that posted that screenshot also posted expected prices apparently:



I'd probably be looking at the 8gb for $849 depending on how much it out performs the 980 Ti. If it's not much farther ahead then I'd probably just go with Nvidia for another couple of years.

If we get a Fiji Pro with 4GB of HBM at $599 that competes with or exceeds a 980Ti and TitanX then AMD might sell a few cards. This would be the level that folks cross-shop a 980Ti with 6GB of DDR5 vs the Fiji with 4GB of HBM for $50 less.

It's going to be an interesting month assuming we get real world benchmarks and that this isnt just a paper launch by AMD.
 
For some reason I thought the 390X was going to be the new chipset with the HBM, not the rebranded 290X. Sounds like that has changed or is this still speculation at the moment?

I wouldn't mind a rebranded 290X at a decent pricepoint if the performance in The Witcher 3 improves significantly. Otherwise I will spend more to get the performance I want.

It hasn't been confirmed yet, but I would take this as a given at this point. The top HBM card (there will likely be more than one with HBM releasing this month) will be called 'Fury' or another name, a la Nvidia and their 'Titan' range.

The 390X re-badge with 8GB GDDR5 (formerly the 290X) is what I am also really interested in, as it will likely be slightly faster and cooler than it's old brother.
 

FLAguy954

Junior Member
The same guy that posted that screenshot also posted expected prices apparently:

R9 380 4gb 199
R9 390 8gb 299
R9 390x 8gb 399
Fiji pro 4gb hbm 599
Fiji xt 4gb hbm 749
Fiji xt /xtx 8gb hbm 849
Fiji vr 2x8gb hbm 1399-1499


I'd probably be looking at the 8gb for $849 depending on how much it out performs the 980 Ti. If it's not much farther ahead then I'd probably just go with Nvidia for another couple of years.

Damn, if those prices are true, I'm definitely selling my 290 for dat Fiji Pro (after seeing the benchmarks and testing).
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Is there even a sniff when these are going to be released?
 
The same guy that posted that screenshot also posted expected prices apparently:



I'd probably be looking at the 8gb for $849 depending on how much it out performs the 980 Ti. If it's not much farther ahead then I'd probably just go with Nvidia for another couple of years.

the person (boy or girl?) also had an explanation regarding the differences between the fiji pro and fiji xt. if anyone can translate...
 

The Llama

Member

Nikodemos

Member
the person (boy or girl?) also had an explanation regarding the differences between the fiji pro and fiji xt. if anyone can translate...
Well, there are only rumours and speculation at this point, but the difference spoken of in early threads was air vs liquid cooling.
 

The Llama

Member
You guys think AMD should have waited for a conference to show these off? NVIDIA took the lead and is owning them.

Let's wait and see how they perform (and how they're actually priced) before we make any judgments. Who knows what'll happen. There are so many conflicting rumors at this point that I don't think anyone outside of AMD actually knows what to expect!
 

Chiggs

Gold Member
You guys think AMD should have waited for a conference to show these off? NVIDIA took the lead and is owning them.

Nvidia owning AMD has nothing to do with this release. It has everything to do with pathetic driver development and poor company management.
 
Gigabyte-Radeon-R9-380-WindForce-II-635x449.jpg


http://wccftech.com/gigabyte-radeon...s-pictured-r9-380-features-4-gb-gddr5-memory/

Gigabyte has appeared to leak AMD’s upcoming Radeon R9 380 and Radeon R9 390 series graphics cards through a data sheet.

AMD is going to launch an entire top-to-bottom Radeon 300 series lineup that will include custom built cards and from the looks of it, the cards have long been under production and ready to hit retail anytime. The recent NVIDIA launch and price cuts for their GeForce 900 series cards may trigger a reaction which prompts AMD to quickly launch or announce their cards during Computex with a more formal event planned in mid-June during E3 2015. AMD currently has a major card, rumored to be codenamed Radeon Fury, which features their high performance Fiji GPU core and is the first HBM compliant graphics card in the industry. It can be expected that AMD will paper launch the card to show what they have for consumers in their sleeves.

I wanna see the 390X, as well as the Fury HBM cards obviously! Looks like the cards will be released very soon.
 

FLAguy954

Junior Member
Dual Fiji board is likely to have 8 GB of RAM. Expect $1499 for MSRP on that one though.



Sure you can. You will also need to add a new memory channel to each new stack to the chip.

If thats the case, then AMD probably configured a card with 8 GB HBM but with a memory controller configuration of a 4 GB HBM card, which would be an interesting way to tackle the lack of VRAM.
 

dr_rus

Member
If thats the case, then AMD probably configured a card with 8 GB HBM but with a memory controller configuration of a 4 GB HBM card, which would be an interesting way to tackle the lack of VRAM.

If by "interesting" you mean wasteful in both performance and costs then sure.

I dunno, I have a feeling that the main reason why they went with 4GB HBM on Fiji is costs in the first place. All the talk of Radeon Fury hunting Titans makes me think that the thing is damn expensive to produce and putting 4GB more of VRAM on it would propel it into competing with Ferrari. We'll see soon.
 
This whole fiji thing with AMD feels eerily similar to Bulldozer. All the hype, all the secrecy... in the end they fell flat on their face.
 

Reading between the lines here, the way the dude is talking about it makes it seem like there isn't an 8gb (single GPU) card coming. Else he'd be unlikely to go into sort of pre-emptive damage control with statements about how memory allocation in drivers has traditionally been inefficient and could be improved, or how he doesn't see framebuffer size as a real limitation on their chip's performance. See:

If you actually look at frame buffers and how efficient they are and how efficient the drivers are at managing capacities across the resolutions, you'll find that there's a lot that can be done. We do not see 4GB as a limitation that would cause performance bottlenecks.
 
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