-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
rocksteady1983
Member
So the new TCL P Series first early "review" is out. TV seems almost too good to be true for $599, 55". I ordered off Amazon last night and it's already sold out. I believe Costco will be getting these sets.
http://www.avsforum.com/tcl-55-p-series-model-55p607-4k-hdr-roku-tv-with-dolby-vision-first-look/
http://www.avsforum.com/tcl-55-p-series-model-55p607-4k-hdr-roku-tv-with-dolby-vision-first-look/
Resident_UA
Member
Is it 10 bit panel? If so this is a great deal! You are getting OK HDR and Roku OS!
The black level of a projected image can only be as dark as the surface it is projected on.
This is why you also need to treat the room even if it is blacked out.
If you have light colored walls, the light from the projector reflects back onto the screen and washes out the image. You need black velvet panels surrounding the screen for the best contrast.
Even then, I don't know that ANSI Contrast has improved much beyond 1000:1 with the latest DLPs - and it's much worse on the other projection technologies. So bright scenes always look washed-out compared to a flat panel display.
There is something to be said for the size of a projected image though.
I do miss that aspect of it, but there are so many issues with a projector setup that I don't think I would do it again.
A short-throw device like that certainly helps with the initial setup as you aren't having to mount the projector on a wall/ceiling, but doesn't change anything else about a projector setup.
Certainly, if the price of OLEDs or µLED displays come down in a few years, I'd prefer a 77" or larger display to a projector.
It doesn't quite have the size impact of something that covers the entire wall, but the image quality and usability is so much better.
DangerMouse
Member
Also the latest firmware update seems to have addressed this in more recent comparison pictures of that shot from BvS.
Nice. I'm very close to pulling the trigger and getting this baby, since this was what I was waiting for for my first OLED (OLED + Sony's processing) and since I like motion particularly on the Sony's I've owned.
I don't think I want to pass it up now that it's finally here.
We are seeing the beginning of the end of Korean electronics dominance. Just like they superseded Japanese manufacturers, Samsung and LG will find it tough to compete with Hisense, Haier and TCL etc. They will do exactly what Samsung did to Sony and Toshiba and Panasonic which is offer superior picture quality, features, for less money. Eventually once they get market dominance they will start to pull back on bleeding edge technology for low prices. This looks like a winner though for what it offers versus price.
I mean compare it to a Q7F and X850E which are sort of mid-range HDR televisions. This gets darker blacks, better nit brightness and has better input lag. I need to see rtings review it though.
SwordStruck
Member
65" variant launching later this year. From what I've read so far it seems like the absolute best option out there for the price.
Quite impressive. Shame TLC TVs are not sold a lot in my part of EU. We only get the most entry-level models as possible from TLC.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
That's really amazing for the money, unbelievably with DV too, God knows how they managed all that for the price tag.
Please stay strong and wait till a HDMI 2.1 model is probably out next year. I still fight the urge not to buy any TV this year :-(
Don't worry Chinese workers are happy to provide their service to keep the price tag low.
This is me as well. I got the money and i'm ready to splurge but i'm trying to hold off.
My old 40" Bravia is 10 years this year.
holygeesus
Banned
Vincent is funny as f*ck!
Caayn
Member
Summary:
ABL: Less aggressive on the C7. A1E hits ABL with 135nits, C7 hits it with 150nits.
Low level black handling: A1E performs marginally better with a high quality source. Low quality source on the A1E results in less noise but a slightly washed-out image compared to the C7.
IR: Both sets activate a compensation cycle after 4 hours, and a "major" cycle can be activated through the UI. A1E doesn't seem to dim static elements over time, making it more prone to IR but keeps the image as intended, C7 does dim over time.
No Signal: A1E shows a Bravia logo that fades in and out. C7 shows various screensavers. Out of the box the C7 will shut down sooner if no signal is detected, the A1E uses a default timer of 4 hours.
Motion: 24p are presented similar on the A1E and C7 with motion interpolation turned-off. The A1E motionflow introduces less artifacts, so much that the highest motionflow setting on the A1E introduces less artifacts than the C7 using the lowest setting. Although the C7 produces a smoother image than the A1E.
HDR: C7 gets brighter but the A1E appears brighter due to tone mapping differences. C7 results in more highlight details and resolves details up to 4000nits, resulting in a darker but more detailed image. A1E resolves details up to 1000nits, resulting in a brighter but lesser detailed image.
Gradations: A1E shows less posterization than the C7.
Input lag: C7 ~21ms 1080/4K. A1E ~30ms 4K, 47~48ms 1080p
Comparison that aren't 1:1 due to differences in screensize:
Uniformity: A1E had a slight yellow tint to the left part.
Upscaling: A1E looks sharper than the C7. (576i resolution tested, edge enhancements disabled.
So for my birthday in June my wife gave me the okay to go buy a 55" 4K tv to replace our old 42" 1080p tv. My original budget was ~$1000, but looking now, I'm trying to keep it at ~$800. My only firm requirement is that it has to have HDR, but I generally want to get the most bang for my buck. I'm even willing to go down to a 50" screen if it means I can get a better quality display for my money.
Amazon has several warehouse deals for the Sony X850D for $778, which is nice. Hopefully it will still be there in two weeks when I'm ready to buy. I've done Warehouse before, and I've usually come out ahead.
There's also the Sony X700D which is $800 new on Amazon.
If not, how are the Vizio M-series? I know some people look down on Vizio, but that's what my current TV is and I like it a lot. The Vizio M55-D0 is $700 at Best Buy, which might be nice as well.
Any thoughts for me on this? Is there anything I've missed that I should look at? There seemed to be a million options when I looked last night, but this morning these are the only ones that are sticking out to me.
Amazon has several warehouse deals for the Sony X850D for $778, which is nice. Hopefully it will still be there in two weeks when I'm ready to buy. I've done Warehouse before, and I've usually come out ahead.
There's also the Sony X700D which is $800 new on Amazon.
If not, how are the Vizio M-series? I know some people look down on Vizio, but that's what my current TV is and I like it a lot. The Vizio M55-D0 is $700 at Best Buy, which might be nice as well.
Any thoughts for me on this? Is there anything I've missed that I should look at? There seemed to be a million options when I looked last night, but this morning these are the only ones that are sticking out to me.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
"Coming right up"
GANGSTERKILLER
Member
He is also the number 1 TV reviewer of them all imo. I'm a long time reader of his site and i absolutely love his videos.
Vincent Teoh and David Mackenzie (also from HDTVtest) helped my a lot through the years in making my decision when buying a new TV.
The A1 and C7 are a close match it seems. Both are really great TV's with an infinite contrast ratio (thank you OLED) but as a core gamer i value the lower input lag (21ms at 4K and 1080p) and brighter full screen whites of the C7 more.
ABL (automatic brightness limiter) is less agressive on the C7. And the games i play have a lot of bright scenes! My VT60 plasma is still good, but one thing i hate the most of this TV, and that is it's agressive ABL. The less ABL the better imo! But to each his own.
I honestly think the picture quality on the A1E is better then the C7 having seen both in person, tinkering with them, but the question becomes, is it the pricd difference between the two better, and in my opinion, no. Maybe if it was $100-$200 sure. But almost $1000 MSRP more, not even close. The C7 will be the smarter pick here unless you have money to make it rain. Especially as the prices on LG tv's get discounted quicker than Sony.
holygeesus
Banned
He is also the number 1 TV reviewer of them all imo. I'm a long time reader of his site and i absolutely love his videos.
Vincent Teoh and David Mackenzie (also from HDTVtest) helped my a lot through the years in making my decision when buying a new TV.
The A1 and C7 are a close match it seems. Both are really great TV's with an infinite contrast ratio (thank you OLED) but as a core gamer i value the lower input lag (21ms at 4K and 1080p) and brighter full screen whites of the C7 more.
ABL (automatic brightness limiter) is less agressive on the C7. And the games i play have a lot of bright scenes! My VT60 plasma is still good, but one thing i hate the most of this TV, and that is it's agressive ABL. The less ABL the better imo! But to each his own.
Yeah he is a fantastic reviewer. Looks to me like the Sony has the 'better' image but the C7 is more accurate and doesn't clip whites with HDR. The ABL difference looks significant to me. The Sky image of a white background looks noticeably better on the LG I think.
Stiler
Member
Seems like the best bang for the buck tv right now, especially since it's fald.
LOL I saw first reviews and assumed that it was something I couldn't afford. Glossed right over. I'll look now, thanks!
You might want to look at the 55" KS8000 still being sold by places like Buydig for under $999. The input lag for gaming and the HDR is amazing on it. The 850D will not be a good buy now.
DangerMouse
Member
That's the one thing potentially holding me back not knowing for sure how UHD BD is going to handle this, but at the same time there's indeed always something (like last year and a half it was waiting for this TV to finally exist and turn out really good like it has in most reviews and owner posts) and next year like always there will probably be a new wrinkle lol, and things already look ridiculously good plus it would give me time for the new HDMI and support to sort itself out before I'm looking again.
Vital? I have had GSYNC displays for years now and yet I have no issue switching back to consoles. It's nice, sure, but I would hardly call it vital.
And by the time that happens, we'll have 2.1a on displays and everyone will be worried about whether devices can be upgraded in firmware.
Metalingus5150
Member
I expect VRR to be a feature only used on the most expensive TVs when it's available. Vizio's CTO on AVSFORUMS said adding it to TV's wouldnt be simple.
Later Alligator
Member
there hasnt even been any confirmation that it will be in sets next year. really, waiting isnt such a bad idea as theres always something better coming out, and existing tech only gets cheaper the longer you wait
but waiting purely based on an estimated release date with no sources backing up those dates may not be worth it unless you are already happy with your current set
Since I'm cheap....itll probably be between this, the vizio m or the new hisense. Good to hear they're being competitive in my favor,and doing it well.
Consoles would benefit immensely from VRR so yes, it's absolutely vital that it can be adopted by mainstream devices for mainstream gaming. VRR and Checkerboard rendering will be big in game performance next console generation imo.
Jigolo
Member
I personally don't think so because of how big the jump is. There is nothing on the market that can run 10k resolutions in the next 5 years. I think 2.1 will have staying power
I personally don't believe that all HDMI 2.1 TVs will support VRR. Somehow I believe some will find the way to cut cost.
Yeah, I expect it to be several years before VRR is available on anything but the highest of high end sets.
holygeesus
Banned
I think the 2016 sets are a sweet spot right now for price and performance. If you can get a B/C6 for £1400 then you will be pretty set till the next HDMI standards I reckon. You could buy a 2017 set now and pay over the odds for small improvements or wait till prices drop, but then you are closer to new sets being released anyway.
DangerMouse
Member
This is where I am, I'm not that concerned about VRR (even though it's a great feature for gaming) given how long I've been gaming without it and like others are saying I'm also not sure how quickly it will be adopted anyway and may not even get really good implementations as quickly as next year. The only feature I think I might care about if it's not able to be added via firmware is the open source flavors of dynamic HDR and that's only if it were to become a mainstay on the 4K blu-rays, but the set I'm looking at has Dolby Vision as well so I think I'd be good for 4-5+ years.
Edit: Oh yeah, Weevilone just reminded me, my just last holiday bought 4K HDR receiver wouldn't support the new HDMI anyway...
The last 3 major revisions have had at least 3 versions each. Meanwhile, HDCP was also incrementing so it was possible to be on the proper HDMI version for your needs, but the wrong HDCP. And all of your stuff has to be in line to get the full feature set.
You can just as easily argue that 2.1 is such a big upgrade that they'll need multiple minor revisions to clean up all the issues. I don't necessarily advocate waiting on things if you have a need. In this case, if you are going to wait for 2.1 I'd wait on the display until you have source/content that needs it. Tons of people ran out and bought 4K TV's thinking that they had won the waiting game. By the time the source devices and content were anywhere, they were missing out on HDR and generally only have partial functionality on 1 input. A lot of those same folks bought a new AVR that would pass thru 4K also, but that needs to be replaced too.
Anyways, it's a big internet and there's plenty of room for different perspectives. This just happens to be mine.
BigWeather
Member
Got a mount for my Samsung flat KS8000 65". It came with M8 35mm screws which seem plenty long enough. The back isn't perfectly flat, though -- and with the spacers 35mm won't cut it. Also, the spacers that came with it don't fit in the mounting hole so I'm not sure how it'll solve the whole "not perfectly flat" issue. Have any of you mounted it? I'm using the EchoGear EGLF1-BK.
Edit: Found that spacers came with my TV (I bought it months ago, forgot they had them). Unfortunately, need to get some M8 45mm screws, hopefully Lowe's Home Depot has 'em.
Edit: UGH, my house has 12" space between studs. The mount is designed for 16". The holes support doing 12" but I'm a bit worried about the weight being distributed against a narrower space, also, it'd be off-center over where my center channel speaker is. I suppose the correct thing to do is get a 24" piece of wood, attach it to the studs, then attach the mount -- centered -- along that 24" span. Maybe I should just call someone to come do this, haha.
Edit: Found that spacers came with my TV (I bought it months ago, forgot they had them). Unfortunately, need to get some M8 45mm screws, hopefully Lowe's Home Depot has 'em.
Edit: UGH, my house has 12" space between studs. The mount is designed for 16". The holes support doing 12" but I'm a bit worried about the weight being distributed against a narrower space, also, it'd be off-center over where my center channel speaker is. I suppose the correct thing to do is get a 24" piece of wood, attach it to the studs, then attach the mount -- centered -- along that 24" span. Maybe I should just call someone to come do this, haha.
NYR
Member
Except there is no such thing as future proofing because things change, it is inherent property of technology. I am sure there are a lot of people with AVRs from 5 years ago with Apple 30 pin connecters on it that were pushed as future proofed. Things change and you can't say something will work forever.
The industry may start using HDMI 2.1 physically, but it will be years (years!) before content is out that takes advantage of it, and by then, it will be time to upgrade.
^ Yep. You might see a few flagships with HDMI 2.1 next year, but won't be till 2019 or 2020 where you see wide adoption. I mean even in 2017, the lower end models of televisions only have one HDMI 2.0a or 2.0b input, even a Sony flagship like the A1E in 2017 only allows HDR in HDMI 2 and 3.
HDMI 2.1 is a big upgrade so if you only buy once every 6-8 years, hold off. But if you tend to upgrade maybe 3-4 years, buy now and enjoy. Life too short. Plus, if you have a PS4 Pro or Xbox One S how can you not take advantage and play in 4K and HDR etc.
HDMI 2.1 is a big upgrade so if you only buy once every 6-8 years, hold off. But if you tend to upgrade maybe 3-4 years, buy now and enjoy. Life too short. Plus, if you have a PS4 Pro or Xbox One S how can you not take advantage and play in 4K and HDR etc.
I think I would need sunglasses if I tried to view that Sky image on my Panasonic DX902 at full brightness 8)
HDMI 2.1 features have been announced, and they are significant for anyone with a gaming PC or planning to buy an Xbox Scorpio.
It probably affects the PlayStation 4 Pro too, if they can add support via a firmware update. If not, the next hardware revision.
People worrying over 20ms vs 30ms input lag is laughable compared to the difference that VRR makes.
The TV side of input lag is only 20-30ms on top of the 100ms+ that V-Sync causes at 30 FPS on consoles.
VRR eliminates the V-Sync lag.
And that's aside from the whole "variable refresh" thing, which makes games play a lot smoother, and allows for unlocked framerates rather than having to cap at 30 or 60.
HDMI 2.1 also supports 4K at 120Hz, which is a huge deal for PC gamers.
The panels used in TVs today are already 120Hz native, they just haven't had an input which supports that yet.
It's the biggest upgrade in a long time - especially for gamers.
If you are the sort that is planning on keeping your next TV for many years, it is absolutely worth waiting for 2018's sets unless you actually need a new TV now.
bender
What time is it?
That's where I've landed. I just need my KURO to hold on another year or so..
Stiler
Member
The new tv's that use it are going to be expensive, on top of all the other new equipment you'll have to buy, receiver, etc.
Then you have to have the content that supports the upgrade which is likely years away as well.
So you're going to pay a premium for something that you probably won't really use for a few years.
Much better imo to buy a good bang for your buck tv set now that you can enjoy 4k/hdr on rather then the mindset of "wait for a year" and spending a whole hell of a lot more for something you won't get real content out of for a couple years after you paid all that money for it.