Smiles and Cries
Member
gone to see if Apple has a gaming console to offer in 4 minutes :3
you hear me IWATA?
you hear me IWATA?
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Wii U Community Thread
- Thread starter Metroid Hunter
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bgassassin
Member
Wsippel gave me the heads up on a very interesting post on B3D.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1648950&postcount=1248
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1648950&postcount=1248
What would be Nintendo's rationale for this?
Smiles and Cries
Member
what the hell dude are you for us or against us? that is totally depressing
gone to Apple event
If true, good job Nintendo...
Here is an invitation that the guy received in his email:
It "looks" pretty real, especially with the Wii U Experience thing seeming to be real too.
No luck with the codes yet! I might give up, but I'm going to tear apart this image and see if I can get the code off of it!
And wait...so, the CPU is less powerful than the GPU? At least, that much to make such a difference?
GhostTrick
Banned
Lol. I hope they're wrong because if the GPU is supposed to save the poor CPU, it will end by giving Xbox 360 performance at best.
Exterminieren
Banned
If that's true, Nintendo have pointlessly kneecapped their own console for no good reason.
Congratulations, Nintendo. No excuses here.
Congratulations, Nintendo. No excuses here.
Glorified G
Member
lmao, if ture. Only Nintendo could fuck up like that. But how can his source, and your source regarding the cpu be so contradictory?
My dreams of $249 system is still alive!
bgassassin
Member
Hardware "balance". They obviously put more "weight" on the GPU and it came back to bite them even worse than I originally thought. As I said over there, I wonder if that was the primary focus of the tweaking the 5th kit saw.
what the hell dude are you for us or against us? that is totally depressing
gone to Apple event
I'm for accuracy. That's my main concern with anything.
I need better clarification on that question.
I honestly don't know whether I should even buy the Wii U now or wait a couple of months and buy it used. I would rather not support Nintendo and their choices any longer. I'm leaning more to purchasing a used Wii U and their titles used. Pretty sick of disappointment after disappointment and the lack of software being shown.
Smiles and Cries
Member
oh man I could have gone to NY
why did I not get this email Nintendo... you and your shitty CPU
why did I not get this email Nintendo... you and your shitty CPU
GhostTrick
Banned
Lol, if it ends up to be true, I won't buy this Wii U. Wii had the wii remote that sold me but this time... no Zelda, no Mario, less powerfull hardware than 2005 hardware, nothing.
GPUs simply are far better and more efficient at a lot of things, but the middleware isn't really there yet. Should bode well for the future, though.
I know nothing tech wise, but if these latest rumors are true, to me it seems like Nintendo's goal was to make porting PS360 hard AND ensure that they are left in the dust next generation.
Smiles and Cries
Member
Hardware "balance". They obviously put more "weight" on the GPU and it came back to bite them even worse than I originally thought. As I said over there, I wonder if that was the primary focus of the tweaking the 5th kit saw.
I'm for accuracy. That's my main concern with anything.
I need better clarification on that question.
Hardware balance is a very strange excuse this could kill the platform if the word gets out CPU is just an important part
does this GamePad cost so much that they had to do this?
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Sounds in line with Akram's statements way back when.
Wouldn't surprised. If this is the case then Nintendo is fucked next generation for ports, simple as that. Doesn't matter how good or feature rich their GPU is. Just like the Wii's shitful hardware and lack of shader support, the time required for developers to rework next generation engines just to account for a weak CPU / strong GPU offset combo won't be worth it given the significantly weaker hardware they're already wrestling with.
Nintendo is Nintendo's worst enemy.
Wouldn't surprised. If this is the case then Nintendo is fucked next generation for ports, simple as that. Doesn't matter how good or feature rich their GPU is. Just like the Wii's shitful hardware and lack of shader support, the time required for developers to rework next generation engines just to account for a weak CPU / strong GPU offset combo won't be worth it given the significantly weaker hardware they're already wrestling with.
Nintendo is Nintendo's worst enemy.
bgassassin
Member
Actually the latter part is the direction of next gen. PS4 is a shining example of that on a larger scale. If anything it reiterates why judging the launch titles is asinine.
That originates from Gamecube so it's not really an excuse.
Ok, and again I'm just blindly stumbling in the dark here, but isn't it a reasonable assumption that PS4/720 will have much more powerful CPU's? So won't it make down porting even more difficult?
GhostTrick
Banned
I never claimed to know anything, but I just wanted to comment on this.
How much does the GPU do anyways? I thought it was just graphics? I guess, in a videogame console (I should say, something just focused on games), would a weaker CPU matter that much? I mean, from the sounds of things, it doesn't seem like it's a LOT weaker than the Xbox 360 or PS3; it's more efficient, as you talked about.
Is the challenge just in taking more of the load off of the CPU and putting it to the GPU?
Right. If most developers cannot be bothered porting PS360 titles, why on Earth would they down port from PS4/720 which I assume would be even more difficult?
They fucked up getting a lot of ports this generation too. We were all fooled once again.
Pretty much. Not sure what Nintendo was thinking.
The thing is: CPUs that are better at random code are worse at predictable code and vice versa. It makes sense to move predictable code like physics and pathfinding to the GPU, and optimize the CPU for unpredictable stuff like the actual game logic and AI. I expect all next generation systems to go that route, just with much more overall grunt which will keep headaches during the transition to a minimum.
Smiles and Cries
Member
totally agree I don't even get the positive spin on this being posted here this is just the worst possible news by the time the next gen consoles are here that GPU/CPU combo will suffer
I'm not so much into specs but damn $300 is an investment I rather throw it on the other guy that guarantees me more years and more games
This one cannot last past 3 years no way in hell it sells gimped like this when word gets out
oh man I could have gone to NY
why did I not get this email Nintendo... you and your shitty CPU
Dangit Nintendo!!!
I just remembered that it is game week for Jimmy Fallon. He's a big game fan, maybe something really cool will show up on his show this week? I think they'll be talking about that Black Ops II tonight.
bgassassin
Member
Not at all actually as those games will most likely depend more on the GPGPU functions of their GPUs as well. We already have a strong indication that PS4 changed from Steamroller to Jaguar cores which can be considered a significant change in a downward direction. If anything this says that Wii U will be even better off in the future than at least I expected.
So would you say that it was a smart move by them? It seems like this will come back and bite them in the ass sooner or later.
This is good to know, but of course the future is never certain
Could actually be the exact opposite: Next generation engines will use this anyway. Current engines are problematic.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Traditionally yes, in a way, the GPU was dedicated to graphical processing, while the CPU was dedicated to other processing. Modern GPUs support compute programming, better referring to the GPU as a GPGPU. This allows the GPU to be used for general processing code alongside the CPU. GPGPU is a good thing.
The Wii U's GPU supports compute programming, and is thus a GPGPU. This appears to be Nintendo's angle: offset a weak CPU with a GPGPU. Whether or not it will work in the long run for next generation ports will depend entirely on how those engines are optimised.
Given I expect next generation engines to support more cores, threading and general performance benchmarks that greatly exceed the Wii U, I'll be surprised if it does them much good in the third party arena. Having a GPGPU for internal use will be a boon though.
Can you elaborate on the PS4 changes? Thanks
Shadow Hog
Member
Why wouldn't he be in such a position? If he had access to a Wii U development system to get intimate with its hardware, presumably he'd be in the nebulous field of game development, and thus have contacts with other developers to get this info.
I haven't been keeping up with the latest PS4/720 rumors, but would it be safe to say there is going to be a huge CPU difference between Wii U and the other systems, but that the GPU might not be that far away?
Thanks for the answer! You explained it all really well and in good detail. I appreciate it!
Smiles and Cries
Member
I am so puzzled by wsippel and bg calm and think this is smart why I am at sky is falling mode here can't even enjoy Apple's new toys
I hope these guys are right be they are going to be the only voices of calm around here for months to come. If devs won't support it, it matters little how nice it works
I hope these guys are right be they are going to be the only voices of calm around here for months to come. If devs won't support it, it matters little how nice it works
GhostTrick
Banned
Is it even possible to find a CPU that is less powerfull than Xbox 360 one ? I mean, except ARM and Intel Atom.
People said the same thing about the DS when it was compared to the PSP. People said the same thing about the Wii and it's "gimped" hardware when compared to its competition. People said the same thing about the less powerful 3DS when the Vita was announced.
Gamers need to understand that power doesn't equal sales or success. If this was the case, then why aren't high end gaming PCs in every gamer's household? Hell, how have gamers not learned this from watching Nintendo over the last decade? Most people just don't care. The only people that do care are forum nerds.
I would've thought the CPU clock speeds (no real idea on cores/threading being used in each) would be closer and a mammoth gap in GPUs, since CPU clock speed isn't really as key anymore (from my limited following of stuff
).Game developers and engine makers care. They make games. People like games.
bgassassin
Member
As of now that change is all I've seen compared to the original target specs and that was in one of the PS4 threads. So as it stands it could be argued that Sony is taking a similar route with PS4.
I'm glad to see Nintendo being forward thinking with the hardware, but it seems like it will definitely "hurt" in the short term. I'd almost have to assume the small performance boost in the 5th kit came from the CPU side.
If it lacks VMX, definitely.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Ok, that was a dumb point I made. But if developers are refusing to make games, it could be just based on spec sheets and not actual experience with the system.
Also, could it all be about the VMX-Gimped speculation mentioned a couple pages back?
edit. WTF is VMX, anyways?
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
See, I don't buy the Wii U's GPGPU making next generation ports easier. In theory, yes, but I still believe the gap is going to be large enough that engines built to take good advantage of the PS4/720 will also account for more cores/threads in the CPU, which will in turn create more problems. It will be less a case of "can we do it?" and more a case of "how much fucking work will be required to get this running?". I'm not confident the Wii U will be in any favourable position regardless of the GPGPU, simply due to the comparative power and CPU architecture difference.
GhostTrick
Banned
So, it would end up with a less powerfull CPU than Xbox 360 but with a slightly better 400GFLOPs GPU ?
Nintendo has been successful despite being "behind" everyone else for a decade. If a lack of support from third parties was going to bring them down, it would have done so a LONG time ago.
bgassassin
Member
We may have to agree to disagree then. I originally expected Nintendo to not have an emphasis on GPGPU functionality making it even more of an issue when combining what you are saying with multiple threads on the CPU. I think this puts the Wii U in a better position than before. One of the biggest things Epic touted about UE4 last year was it's ability to scale across multi-core CPUs.
Smiles and Cries
Member
I do not have the tech knowledge to see this as good news I'll admit but DS and WiiU very different contests - this may just suck pretty badly for us who want our Nintendo IPs but cannot afford a second platform at home for 3rd parties.
What if Sony or MS goes on a marketing blitz that sends this info mainstream and make it all about specs claiming current gen is still more powerful than WiiU
oh well... they always end up taking my money no matter how much I bitch about them :|
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
When was this confirmed? I remember people speculating about its use in next-gen machines, but never in regards to the Wii U.
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