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VGLeaks rumor: Durango CPU Overview

I

i-Lo

Member
THE:MILKMAN said:
That seems a bit unlikely at this point.



The power/temp thing for GDDR5 vs DDR3 is interesting. MrFox over at B3D came up with some numbers on GDDR5.



If the above is close... Even if the memory uses twice the power of DDR3 it would only be a ~5W difference? Which would be nothing.
Click to expand...

Wow, I did not know this. That is very intriguing. Makes me wonder what the TDP of both systems would look like (PS4>XB3 in all likelihood given GDDR5 and Pitcairn derived GPU).

I still think MS has built a machine with some really intricate balancing for maximum efficiency from the start. Of course, that is not to say PS4 won't be just as efficient if the current GPU stuff (most of which went over my head like this one) are true.

I can scarcely imagine what Halo X (most likely 7) would look like by the 5-6th year of the console.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Hana-Bi said:
I hope 12 gigs is more likely than 4 gigs. These rumors are getting worse for the 720 - I hope MS will positively surprise us...
Click to expand...
Bandwidth is more of a concern for Microsoft than the amount, more DDR3 wouldn't address that.

amstradcpc said:
To be fair the MS leaked info with the low latency ESRAM is like a CPU with 1,3 Tflops. The another pastebin talks about 2 GPUs and a special link between them.What if MS has been leaking half the history?.DDR3 at 68GBs x 2 GPUs is 138GBs and 16 ropsx2 are 32.Things would have more sense.
Click to expand...
Two GPUs would be incredibly impractical and generate way too much hear for a console.
 
L

les papillons sexuels

Banned
RoboPlato said:
Bandwidth is more of a concern for Microsoft than the amount, more DDR3 wouldn't address that.


Two GPUs would be incredibly impractical and generate way too much hear for a console.
Click to expand...

i think latency is the bigger concern then bandwith. If your ram is starved then there's no point in massive bandwith.
 
I

i-Lo

Member
RoboPlato said:
Bandwidth is more of a concern for Microsoft than the amount, more DDR3 wouldn't address that.


Two GPUs would be incredibly impractical and generate way too much hear for a console.
Click to expand...

Can they make it 512 bit? I can already see some gaffers doing the awesome math of adding 136+102GB/s.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
les papillons sexuels said:
i think latency is the bigger concern then bandwith. If your ram is starved then there's no point in massive bandwith.
Click to expand...
DDR3 and eSRAM have low latency, no need for concern there. Besides, even GDDR5's higher latency is pretty much a non issue. It's nanoseconds of a difference and it can be compensated for by the memory controller and data management.
 
A

artist

Banned
XtremeXpider said:
Maybe pastebin info was for the APU. I don't think Microsoft can build a 1.2TF CPU.
Click to expand...
It clearly refers to the APU with the 1.2TF number; 64-bit, 8 core vs 32-bit, 4 core.

les papillons sexuels said:
not from the engine architect i was talking to.
Click to expand...
Ooooh!




tumblr_inline_mfe7hxt3zp3c.gif

amstradcpc said:
To be fair the MS leaked info with the low latency ESRAM is like a CPU with 1,3 Tflops. The another pastebin talks about 2 GPUs and a special link between them.What if MS has been leaking half the history?.DDR3 at 68GBs x 2 GPUs is 138GBs and 16 rops x 2 are 32.Things would have more sense, even the claim of being two computers tapped together.
Click to expand...
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
i-Lo said:
Where did you get the OS footprint figure for PS4 from?
Click to expand...
Probably just doubling the rumored 512mb since the total RAM pool doubled. I wouldn't be surprised of that happened at first in case they decide to add features. They could easily unlock it later on and no one is going to hit 7Gb of GDDR5 useage for a while.
 
THE:MILKMAN

THE:MILKMAN

Member
i-Lo said:
Wow, I did not know this. That is very intriguing. Makes me wonder what the TDP of both systems would look like (PS4>XB3 in all likelihood given GDDR5 and Pitcairn derived GPU).

I still think MS has built a machine with some really intricate balancing for maximum efficiency from the start. Of course, that is not to say PS4 won't be just as efficient if the current GPU stuff (most of which went over my head like this one) are true.

I can scarcely imagine what Halo X (most likely 7) would look like by the 5-6th year of the console.
Click to expand...

I have always thought ~150W would be the upper end that both would pull from the wall. Digital Foundry said as much about the PS4. Durango could even be closer to 120W if current specs turn out true.

All depends what other chips are in both systems that we don't know about.
 
L

les papillons sexuels

Banned
RoboPlato said:
DDR3 and eSRAM have low latency, no need for concern there. Besides, even GDDR5's higher latency is pretty much a non issue. It's nanoseconds of a difference and it can be compensated for by the memory controller and data management.
Click to expand...

latency helps bandwith more then bandwidth helps latency.

for example, higher dram latency = More access/second.

the converse isn't neccessarily true.

Adding chips to widen a memory module increases Bandwidth but higher fan-out on address lines may increase Latency.

hence the esram focus. Theres a clear reason why ms is using the approach they have. People see bigger and assume better, it's not always the case.
 
H

HollovVpo1nt

Banned
The rumors so far indicate that Durango has standard CPU, standard GPU and standard RAM. I think that, that might be an indicatition that Durangos life cycle will be much, much shorter than the 360's. I'd say 2-3 years tops. Technology is moving at a pace that makes an underpowered system like Durango look ancient within years.
 
I

i-Lo

Member
THE:MILKMAN said:
I have always thought ~150W would be the upper end that both would pull from the wall. Digital Foundry said as much about the PS4. Durango could even be closer to 120W if current specs turn out true.

All depends what other chips are in both systems that we don't know about.
Click to expand...

That is very surprising. PS3 at peak (not sustained) hit 209W and XB360 somewhere around 185W. Pertaining to 120W, I remember seeing that figure in the leaked document dated 2010 which according to Proelite was based on older specs before the revision that year.
 
A

amstradcpc

Member
RoboPlato said:
Bandwidth is more of a concern for Microsoft than the amount, more DDR3 wouldn't address that.


Two GPUs would be incredibly impractical and generate way too much hear for a console.
Click to expand...
30 watts the cpu+70 watts 12 CUs+70 watts 12 CUs + 10watts DDR3 =180, similar to launch xbox 360. The 2 no system displane planes plus the move engines scream some kind of bizarre crossfire.
 
I

i-Lo

Member
amstradcpc said:
30 watts the cpu+70 watts 12 CUs+70 watts 12 CUs + 10watts DDR3 =180, similar to launch xbox 360. The 2 no system displane planes plus the move engines scream some kind of bizarre crossfire.
Click to expand...

If you are really expecting that kind of spec from the nextbox, you are, in all likelihood, setting yourself up for disappointment.
 
A

amstradcpc

Member
i-Lo said:
If you are really expecting that kind of spec from the nextbox, you are, in all likelihood, setting yourself up for disappointment.
Click to expand...
Nah, i am more from Sony exclusives.If it ends up like rumored this time will have better multis at least.But cant avoid thinking that after how fucked was MS with the 360 (after a closed doors meeting with EA everything was leaked next day) they gave a conference two years before launch to a gazillion developers and gave them all papers to leak...
 
C

Cidd

Member
amstradcpc said:
To be fair the MS leaked info with the low latency ESRAM is like a CPU with 1,3 Tflops. The another pastebin talks about 2 GPUs and a special link between them.What if MS has been leaking half the history?.DDR3 at 68GBs x 2 GPUs is 138GBs and 16 rops x 2 are 32.Things would have more sense, even the claim of being two computers tapped together.
Click to expand...

Good luck selling that at an affordable price, and dual GPUs are a nightmare for Devs if that's true the PS4 would win next gen easily.
 
R

Reiko

Banned
Cidd said:
Good luck selling that at an affordable price, and dual GPUs are a nightmare for Devs if that's true the PS4 would win next gen easily.
Click to expand...


Without proper documentation and tools, programming for anything is a nightmare.
 
I

i-Lo

Member
Hana-Bi said:
Wasn't this also rumored? Like 0.5 - 1 GB for the OS?
Click to expand...

RoboPlato said:
Probably just doubling the rumored 512mb since the total RAM pool doubled. I wouldn't be surprised of that happened at first in case they decide to add features. They could easily unlock it later on and no one is going to hit 7Gb of GDDR5 useage for a while.
Click to expand...

Ah I see. I had assumed around 2GB reserved in the beginning for the same reason, i.e. feature set (if they are aiming to attain parity with XB3).
 
THE:MILKMAN

THE:MILKMAN

Member
i-Lo said:
That is very surprising. PS3 at peak (not sustained) hit 209W and XB360 somewhere around 185W. Pertaining to 120W, I remember seeing that figure in the leaked document dated 2010 which according to Proelite was based on older specs before the revision that year.
Click to expand...

I really don't think it is. When you think the combined Cell/RSX was nearly 500mm2 and the 209W figure is from the launch PS3 that had BC chips too........

That Yukon? PDF I see as a meeting of the design and engineering team. They all got together and brainstormed their wants/needs/aims for the new Xbox. Then later all the ideas were whittled down until they had 2 or 3 contenders. The leaks we're getting now, if true, was the winning design.

Well, at least something along those lines lol.
 
C

Cidd

Member
Reiko said:
Without proper documentation and tools, programming for anything is a nightmare.
Click to expand...

Sure but some things are still more of an headache than others, just look at how Devs treated the Cell not to mention why go for 2 GPUs when you could just get a more powerful one that produce less heat. use less power and cost a lot less?

None of that makes any sense whatsoever.
 
A

amstradcpc

Member
Cidd said:
Sure but some things are still more of an headache than others, just look at how Devs treated the Cell not to mention why go for 2 GPUs when you could just get a more poweful one that produce less heat. use less power and cost a lot less?

None of that makes any sense whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Its not like devs have to make much to run their games in dual gpu cards. it just works.
 
P

Pristine_Condition

Member
amstradcpc said:
Its not like devs have to make much to run their games in dual gpu cards. it just works.
Click to expand...

People aren't saying it cant be done. People sre saying that when you are designing a system with it's own custom-fabbed chips, this would be pretty silly, both from a performance perspective and from an assembly cost perspective.
 
K

KidBeta

Junior Member
Krilekk said:
If they buy double the amount of chips price will be down a lot and the console itself should only cost <$30 more.
Click to expand...

Double the GPU's, double the CPU's, double the RAM, extra money for the interconnect, extra money for cooling, extra money for the redesign.

This is far from trivial or even <$30.

Considering the oldest confirmed leak was from February last year.

I can guarantee you that there has not been enough time for this kind of change to take place.

And to quote hitchens,

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
 
S

Socky

Member
It's not Cliffy B, as he admits himself. So why use that tag except to try to increase the veracity of your claim? This is just another rumour. And what's happening on March 6th that would reveal this anyway? Not long to wait to call on this at least...
 
S

SlickShoesRUCrazy

Member
Socky said:
It's not Cliffy B, as he admits himself. So why use that tag except to try to increase the veracity of your claim? This is just another rumour. And what's happening on March 6th that would reveal this anyway? Not long to wait to call on this at least...
Click to expand...

March 6-7 or something there is a closed doors even in regards to the next box.
 
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