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NullPointer · Jul 1, 2011

BigPickZel said:
Giving something away that you own is being nice. Giving something away that belonged to someone else is socialist.

Good point*

Then I'm going to have to go for... *spins the wheel* Communist! That or fascist. Or both.

*

Although arguments can be made over the nature of property and who actually owns what, but I don't want to go down that rabbit hole.

remnant · Jul 1, 2011

Alpha-Bromega said:
no, it's altruism, it's evil.

Uhh no it isn't. Giving something away for nothing or sacrificing yourself is altruistic. Giving something away becuase you gain from it is not.

Guess what they are doing?

SnakeswithLasers · Jul 1, 2011

Maybe instead of actually sending you the book, they just send you a pen and paper and tell you to write it yourself.

Anticitizen One · Jul 1, 2011

This book is so good that Ron Paul even named his SON after her

BigPickZel · Jul 1, 2011

Ah yes, Atlas Paul. What a fella.

Tomat · Jul 1, 2011

Filled out the form.

If I die, you guys know what happened.

ZephyrFate · Jul 1, 2011

SnakeswithLasers said:
Maybe instead of actually sending you the book, they just send you a pen and paper and tell you to write it yourself.

Considering how terrible her prose is, I'm sure I could.

Apath · Jul 1, 2011

I thought it was a good read. I don't really agree with Rand, but it doesn't necessarily detract from the book and some of the messages it offers.

Syracuse022 · Jul 1, 2011

I did it. Used an old e-mail and my parents' address because I definitely expect to get full-on trolled with mailing lists, junk mail, etc. That was the shadiest internet form I've hit send on in a long time.

Did I fall for it? Am I a parasite?

ElectricBlue187 · Jul 1, 2011

Anticitizen One said:
This book is so good that Ron Paul even named his SON after her

I guess the shit doesn't fall far from the bat

Cyan · Jul 1, 2011

BigPickZel said:
Ah yes, Atlas Paul. What a fella.

Dr. Atlas Paul, thank you very much.

SnakeswithLasers · Jul 1, 2011

ZephyrFate said:
Considering how terrible her prose is, I'm sure I could.

You probably don't have the spare time or sexual frustration.

Napoleonthechimp · Jul 1, 2011

I've never really understood the outright bizarre hatred for Ayn Rand. The - sometimes irrational - vitriol is quite disturbing to me.

polyh3dron · Jul 1, 2011

Oh the irony.

SnakeswithLasers said:
Maybe instead of actually sending you the book, they just send you a pen and paper and tell you to write it yourself.

Are bootstraps included?

Alpha-Bromega · Jul 1, 2011

Napoleonthechimp said:
I've never really understood the outright bizarre hatred for Ayn Rand.

you know her, um, philosophy right? its conducive to hatred.

Napoleonthechimp · Jul 1, 2011

Alpha-Bromega said:
you know her, um, philosophy right? its conducive to hatred.

In what way? Explain your interpretation of it to me.

ZephyrFate · Jul 1, 2011

SnakeswithLasers said:
You probably don't have the spare time or sexual frustration.

Hold on, I bet I could write enough rape to put her book to shame.

okay no I probably couldn't

StuKen · Jul 1, 2011

remnant said:
Uhh no it isn't. Giving something away for nothing or sacrificing yourself is altruistic. Giving something away becuase you gain from it is not.

Guess what they are doing?

Not quite bosco, not quite. Altruism is sacrificing yourself for someone else, there may or may not be a return on that sacrifice but you still do it. What they are doing is the exact same, a sacrifice they may never see any net benefit from. And that, my sociopathic chum, is the purest of altruism.

SnakeswithLasers · Jul 1, 2011

polyh3dron said:
Oh the irony.

Are bootstraps included?

You make your own fucking bootstraps. Be grateful you were given the pen.

Alpha-Bromega · Jul 1, 2011

Napoleonthechimp said:
In what way? Explain your interpretation of it to me.

She is the embodiment of selfish greed, she disdains charity and altruism to the point she famously said they are "evil"

If you aren't rich it's because, quite literally, you are worthless, not worthy of untying a capitalists shoe

Zophar · Jul 1, 2011

Napoleonthechimp said:
In what way? Explain your interpretation of it to me.

Atlas Shrugged is pretty much Mein Kampf with "poor and needy people" written in place of "jews".

LQX · Jul 1, 2011

Thanks OP. From some of the comments I imagine this does to liberals what the bible does to evil, scares the shit out of them.

BigPickZel · Jul 1, 2011

Alpha-Bromega said:
She is the embodiment of selfish greed, she disdains charity and altruism to the point she famously said they are "evil"

If you aren't rich it's because, quite literally, you are worthless, not worthy of untying a capitalists shoe

Not quite. She was against altruism as the concept that man exists only to help others.

Zophar · Jul 1, 2011

LQX said:
Thanks OP. From some of the comments I imagine this does to liberals what the bible does to evil, scares the shit out of them.

Both books do about an equally solid job of describing reality.

Axion22 · Jul 1, 2011

I was always taught that freedom is not free.

Fusebox · Jul 1, 2011

LQX said:
Thanks OP. From some of the comments I imagine this does to liberals what the bible does to evil, scares the shit out of them.

You think the bible scares the shit out of evil?

*Backs away slowly, picking up a free copy of Atlus Shrugged as he exits...*

ElectricBlue187 · Jul 1, 2011

Axion22 said:
I was always taught that freedom is not free.

freedom costs a buck oh five?

Alpha-Bromega · Jul 1, 2011

BigPickZel said:
Not quite. She was against altruism as the concept that man exists only to help others.

right, man is only here to help himself regardless of the consequences. it's dangerous and scary line of thought

Chichikov · Jul 1, 2011

Alpha-Bromega said:
She is the embodiment of selfish greed, she disdains charity and altruism to the point she famously said they are "evil"

If you aren't rich it's because, quite literally, you are worthless, not worthy of untying a capitalists shoe

The issues with objectivism go far deeper than practical morality.
Nietzsche was immoral*, but at least his philosophy is coherent.
Objectivism is a mess designed to justify Rand's pre-existing political positions.

* yeah, yeah, I'm using 'immoral' in the conversational way, not the philosophical one, that's not the point.

lethial · Jul 1, 2011

This would be a great secret santa gaf gift.

Drakeon · Jul 1, 2011

LQX said:
Thanks OP. From some of the comments I imagine this does to liberals what the bible does to evil, scares the shit out of them.

It really doesn't scare liberals at all, maybe makes us heartily laugh at the preposterous notions presented, but thats about it.

Cyan · Jul 1, 2011

LQX said:
Thanks OP. From some of the comments I imagine this does to liberals what the bible does to evil, scares the shit out of them.

Better comparison is LotR, really:

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year olds life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

Devolution · Jul 1, 2011

icarus-daedelus said:
While we're throwing around quotes!

"This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force."

If someone gave it to me I'd thank them for the roll of toilet paper.

Napoleonthechimp · Jul 1, 2011

Alpha-Bromega said:
She is the embodiment of selfish greed, she disdains charity and altruism to the point she famously said they are "evil"

If you aren't rich it's because, quite literally, you are worthless, not worthy of untying a capitalists shoe

I wouldn't consider altruism "evil" but I personally do believe that human beings do act out of some degree of self-interest even in supposed cases of altruism. We all judge the world against our own individual templet of what is and what is not, then in turn we shape everything outside of ourselves to fit our own unique worldview. That could be said to be "selfish" if you take the word to mean imposing your own sense of self onto the world.

However getting worked up about her own bizarre version of those ideas is just weird in itself.

WARCOCK · Jul 1, 2011

Chichikov said:
The issues with objectivism go far deeper than practical morality.
Nietzsche was immoral*, but at least his philosophy is coherent.
Objectivism is a mess designed to justify Rand's pre-existing political positions.

Nietzsche was immoral in so far as that he failed to complete a conceptualized re-evaluation of morality in a post non-divinely sanctioned world.

*post edit: oh ok i didn't know that's what you meant.

BigPickZel · Jul 1, 2011

Alpha-Bromega said:
right, man is only here to help himself regardless of the consequences. it's dangerous and scary line of thought

No, man exists is his own creature to make decisions for himself, not bound to help others simply by reason of existence. There's a tremendous difference.

remnant · Jul 1, 2011

StuKen said:
Not quite bosco, not quite. Altruism is sacrificing yourself for someone else, there may or may not be a return on that sacrifice but you still do it. What they are doing is the exact same, a sacrifice they may never see any net benefit from. And that, my sociopathic chum, is the purest of altruism.

So if I give you something, like a free book to sell other books or some product, that is altruistic charity and not advertising? I'll remeber that the next time I get something free in the mail.

That said, it doesn't matter becuase charity isn"t a bad thing according to Rand. Being forced into "charity" by someone with a higher authority is. If this group wants to give something away for charity, it doesn't break principle.

PhoncipleBone · Jul 1, 2011

But how can Ayn Rand be bad? Rush have songs about her works!

sarcasm

JJDinomite · Jul 1, 2011

Isn't this book like a liberal's worst nightmare? Well, other than the Bible. I can see why GAF isn't supporting it.

Devolution · Jul 1, 2011

BigPickZel said:
No, man exists is his own creature to make decisions for himself, not bound to help others simply by reason of existence. There's a tremendous difference.

Man is an island. It's incredibly selfish thinking that doesn't even make sense. Man cannot survive and continue on without society at large. Oh libertarianism u.

Napoleonthechimp · Jul 1, 2011

My stuff is based off ideas present in Zen Buddhism by the way, but many of those ideas are present in George Kelly's theory of personal construct psychology.

Kelly believed that anticipation and prediction are the main drivers of our mind. "Every man is, in his own particular way, a scientist," said Kelly, in that he is always building up and refining theories and models about how the world works so that he can anticipate events. We start on this at birth (a child discovers, "if I cry, mother will come") and continue refining our theories as we grow up. We build theories -often stereotypes- about other people and also try to control them or impose on others our own theories so that we are better able to predict their actions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_construct_theory

Devolution · Jul 1, 2011

Buddhism is a wholly different construct from the self-masturbatory crap you'll read from Rand and her ilk.

Tomat · Jul 1, 2011

Wonder how long it'll take them to send it out.

I'm ready to be indoctrinated.

BigPickZel · Jul 1, 2011

Devolution said:
Man is an island. It's incredibly selfish thinking that doesn't even make sense. Man cannot survive and continue on without society at large. Oh libertarianism u.

How is it selfish to think that people shouldn't be forced into doing something they don't want to do?

Devolution · Jul 1, 2011

BigPickZel said:
How is it selfish to think that people shouldn't be forced into doing something they don't want to do?

By all means go live out in the woods by yourself, doing everything for yourself and so on. But don't try to ascribe that nonsense to a society and justify it with a heap of bullshit.

WARCOCK · Jul 1, 2011

BigPickZel said:
How is it selfish to think that people shouldn't be forced into doing something they don't want to do?

Retreat on an island and try to survive by yourself. Have your absolute freedom for what good it will do you.

bill0527 · Jul 1, 2011

FoneBone said:
My desire to do something that Rand cultists would consider blasphemous is outweighed by my desire not to wind up on the Ayn Rand Institute's mailing list.

Thanks. I almost bit on this until I read this great point you brought up.

ZephyrFate · Jul 1, 2011

JJDinomite said:
Isn't this book like a liberal's worst nightmare? Well, other than the Bible. I can see why GAF isn't supporting it.

Goes beyond liberalism, GAF isn't supporting it because it rots your brain.

Fusebox · Jul 1, 2011

Devolution said:
Man cannot survive and continue on without society at large. Oh libertarianism u.

Depends on your definition of 'man' and 'society', because I guarantee you that stupid people will continue fucking and making more babies until the end of time, selfish genes and all that guff.

They may not live in what we would call a modern society, but man will survive.

Thagomizer · Jul 1, 2011

BigPickZel said:
How is it selfish to think that people shouldn't be forced into doing something they don't want to do?

This is, honestly, "8 year old who doesn't want to clean his room" logic

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