I am not arguing that at all, however I feel that modern sonics design is more effective.
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Effective character design: Sonic now vs Sonic then
- Thread starter Ran rp
- Start date
I am not arguing that at all, however I feel that modern sonics design is more effective.
Yes.
They are both good designs.
If anything modern sonic is a good example of a design update. No drastic changes, very easy to identify with the older design and it makes for a seamless comparison.
Edit: Single Eyeball thing is still stupid though.
The Albatross
Member
I'd love to weigh in on this, but knowing these Sonic freaks it's impossible.
I'll say that the one fatal flaw with the argument is that Sonic wasn't "cool" in 2001 or since then. Sonic in 2001 was "cool" by 1991 standards, but he was the antithesis of cool by 2001... Making him completely uncool to anybody who had any sense of what cool was. Which is generally why only weird, out of touch sonic obsessees thought that Sonic looked cool in Sonic Adventure and newer games
I'll say that the one fatal flaw with the argument is that Sonic wasn't "cool" in 2001 or since then. Sonic in 2001 was "cool" by 1991 standards, but he was the antithesis of cool by 2001... Making him completely uncool to anybody who had any sense of what cool was. Which is generally why only weird, out of touch sonic obsessees thought that Sonic looked cool in Sonic Adventure and newer games
This might just be the most effective honey trap in the history of GAF. As for the topic at hand, no way in hell can you write off classic Sonic as a character with no character. Everything post Adventure reeks of trying too hard with the exception of Sonic's renders/models in Unleashed/Colors/Generations.
Also, Sonic CD's art > everything else. Coveys the same kind of "cool" SEGA went nuts trying to beat into people's faces with the hyper stylistic Sonic post adventure while retaining enough of the "cute" or more aptly approachable design that made Sonic popular in the first place.
Also, Sonic CD's art > everything else. Coveys the same kind of "cool" SEGA went nuts trying to beat into people's faces with the hyper stylistic Sonic post adventure while retaining enough of the "cute" or more aptly approachable design that made Sonic popular in the first place.
What the heck? Was this directed at us? Or am I just being a little too defensive?
ViewtifulJC
Banned
don't include me with you, qq more
freak
freak
I mean yeah, I just wish they were prominent like they used to be, like boxarts and posters and whatnot. *shrug* It was a nice thing I'd like to see stick around.
q_q *sniff...*
Yeah, I really prefer the drawn art over CG. The CG always looks odd to me.
revolverjgw
Member
Bottom left Sonic looks like a douche canoe, I want to kill him
I thought the characters in Sonic 3 (& Knuckles) had a good amount of personality. Knuckles in particular is well done, and the Hidden Palace stage is a great example of storytelling in video games.
Sonic 2's Sonic had a bunch of animations besides finger-wagging too. Plus all these characters tied in with the Saturday morning cartoons (and comic books, but I expect those had less circulation). I remember Sonic being fairly cool in elementary school.
Sonic 2's Sonic had a bunch of animations besides finger-wagging too. Plus all these characters tied in with the Saturday morning cartoons (and comic books, but I expect those had less circulation). I remember Sonic being fairly cool in elementary school.
FutureZombie
Banned
His eyes are connected. I wouldn't call that a good design. Plus he's a hedgehog with attitude; tell me that wasn't dreamed up by a cynical marketing department. Sonic is the embodiment of stupid.
A product that is good in one regard and weak in another does not become a national phenomenon. It has to be appealing as a complete package.
And to pull in a quote from the other thread,
What are you even on about.
Sonic's popularity peaked in 1993 and has never revisited those lofty heights since.
Oh good, somebody brought up Sonic CD
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Its more about color theory speak here. Blue emits a calm and smoothly feel while red, yellow etc represents energy, fire, sunshine kind of thing.
I thought about that, but the amount of "sonic freaks" as it were, now, because... well lets be honest this guy and his debut game
Is insane,
Things like hall emeralds attack team, and Hasbro bringing optimus prime back to life, prove that major fan bases could have a say in how things went , pre-internet.
I feel like the sonic fan base now vs the sonic fan base then is a hell of a lot larger, and part of that i feel has to do with making the characters , look cool.
Please for the love of god, look at the post below you to see how wrong you are.
XD
Fixed, because shit that was the only reason. Hell I know its all my 11 year old self needed. Vegeta archtype, done. I was too stupid to even notice Vegeta was a jobber.
I grew up with both classic and modern Sonic, as a fan since Sonic 2 I frankly never cared about green eyes black eyes and all that shit. I like Sonic's current design fine. I found the 2006 version to be the worst by far, way too lanky.
i would also like to know why everyone is wearing white gloves.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
He doesn't know how to tie his shoes(his knuckles always get in the way), so he just replaced them with a steel band that will NEVER come loose
/canon
/notreally
Better design, more personality...for you...I think?
You were kind spot on on the color though. But man Classic Sonic is way more appealing than the new one. The new one tries to hard to be cool, while the old one can hit the sweetspot on being cool but still good to look at it.
The new one uses too much long lines, he looks like a teenager boy all clumsy. And I think Sonic being short and kinda cute is more soft on the eyes, it just works for him, the spikes and the way he looks and move already send the message he is cool.
But as the OP this is my opinion since I don't study design.
You were kind spot on on the color though. But man Classic Sonic is way more appealing than the new one. The new one tries to hard to be cool, while the old one can hit the sweetspot on being cool but still good to look at it.
The new one uses too much long lines, he looks like a teenager boy all clumsy. And I think Sonic being short and kinda cute is more soft on the eyes, it just works for him, the spikes and the way he looks and move already send the message he is cool.
But as the OP this is my opinion since I don't study design.
But like I and at least one other person have said, this comes with a huge [citation needed]. If you're just going by your impression of how people you know feel about Sonic, you're obviously likely to be very, very wrong, since you were 20 years younger 20 years ago. And obviously the internet tends to make niche things look a whole lot more popular than they really are.
Rickenslacker
Banned
I'm not gonna touch upon the amount of character present in the designs of classic vs new Sonic, Tails and Knuckles but the limitations of the classic games certainly helped. They were effective for what they were, sprites and mute characters in a game about blazing through levels and hopping on Robotnik. I mean there's not much you need to get about Sonic other than he's gotta go fast. Their few gestures got across enough, which is much preferable to me than any time they open their mouths.
Supposedly he was supposed to be a living billboard or something. The mark on his chest was going to be the Nike symbol. [citation needed]
The Albatross
Member
I don't think that's valid because, in general, gaming has grown more than 10-fold since 1992, and there are more game players and vocal game players today than there were then. As a percentage of overall gamers, I'd really have to estimate that the number of fans of sonic has only dropped since 1992, especially in the last 5 years. "sonic fans" in 1992 or 1993 represented an enormous number of gamers, because generally if you had a Genesis, you were a sonic fan, and if you has an SNES, you were a mario fan... I don't think that it was ever 50/50 between Sonic and Mario, but I'd give Sonic some credit and say that -- at his height -- he probably represented, say, 30% of the "fan-dom" of gamers. Today, Sonic is barely recognizeable... he hasn't carried a major, top level, top selling game in maybe 10 (?) years? The only sonic games released are under the radar releases (despite their quality, like Sonic Colors) or mini, budget priced download only games. This isn't a testament to Sonic's modern coolness.
As an absolute number of course there are more sonic fans now (or, in 2005) than there were in 1992. There are more gamers now.
I'd still say that the characters are not cool, they are the antithesis of cool, and that anybody who thinks that Sonic represents "cool" has a really out of touch opinion on what's cool.
scorpscarx
Member
1991 Sonic is still the best Sonic by far.
Yay, lets generalize a group of people based on one poster's opinion.
OldAsUrSock
Banned
Gotta' say, the newer sonic designs are so much nicer to look at. Shadow has always looked good.
Didn't you know? Every Sonic fans are a bunch of weirdos. Stop enjoying speed based platformers!
Professor Beef
Banned
The views expressed in the OP are those of the author (Village) and do not necessarily represent the views of, and should not be attributed to, SonicGAF as a whole.
While that is true, sonic not so nitche.
The Albatross
Member
My point of view (however wrong) that there are a lot of weird sonic fans has nothing to do with this thread or any one poster's opinion, but the (IMO) bizarrely large sonic fan community, weird (IMO) sonic fan art, and the strange (IMO) attachment to sonic that some people have.
It's definitely unfair to generalize, but those are the breaks. We're an industry of generalizations.
I always loved that style ever since I was a kid. Blaze looks really cool drawn in that style. Maybe it's because I watched so many cartoons like SATAM and Swat Kats with full anthropomorphic casts' but I remembered really digging the characters transition from the 2d games to 3d games aesthetics wise.
Forgive me if my comments are not entirely germane to the topic, as I'm struggling somewhat with parceling out what that topic is when statements along the lines of "You can argue in favor of simple character design's merits all you like, but the sheer amount of Shadow fan art indicates . . . something" are presented.
In any case, I should like to state that a character's design may be as alluring as possible, but if the character themselves is unlikeable, there isn't much for it.
Take, for instance, the following:
Very few people will argue with you that Lightning is a bad character design. Most all of us were rather hooked before XIII came out. Now, as someone who liked her in XIII, I still must say that design not withstanding, there are plenty of people willing to tell you that Lightning isn't great, and that she's the reason they don't go near the FNC, FF itself, or Square, or whatever.
The point is, if the character on its own is so repulsive it trumps the good design, then no matter how good the design, its effect is utterly reversed because of the character, and that previously good design now stands as nothing but shorthand for the dislike people feel toward the character.
Now, as to the argument that fan art is somehow indicative of quality of one design type over another, allow me to extend the Final Fantasy example one step further out. There is plenty of fan art dedicated to the Warrior of Light, in his very simple red armor, floating out there. Perhaps not as much as Lightning, for the obvious reason that his Amano art is more well known of late, but the point remains, you can find swathes of fan art for simple designs as well as complicated.
I cannot, then, see how fan art has any bearing on the efficacy of a character design, especially when I consider the Awesome Fan Art threads.
In any case, I should like to state that a character's design may be as alluring as possible, but if the character themselves is unlikeable, there isn't much for it.
Take, for instance, the following:
Very few people will argue with you that Lightning is a bad character design. Most all of us were rather hooked before XIII came out. Now, as someone who liked her in XIII, I still must say that design not withstanding, there are plenty of people willing to tell you that Lightning isn't great, and that she's the reason they don't go near the FNC, FF itself, or Square, or whatever.
The point is, if the character on its own is so repulsive it trumps the good design, then no matter how good the design, its effect is utterly reversed because of the character, and that previously good design now stands as nothing but shorthand for the dislike people feel toward the character.
Now, as to the argument that fan art is somehow indicative of quality of one design type over another, allow me to extend the Final Fantasy example one step further out. There is plenty of fan art dedicated to the Warrior of Light, in his very simple red armor, floating out there. Perhaps not as much as Lightning, for the obvious reason that his Amano art is more well known of late, but the point remains, you can find swathes of fan art for simple designs as well as complicated.
I cannot, then, see how fan art has any bearing on the efficacy of a character design, especially when I consider the Awesome Fan Art threads.
MisterHero
Super Member
Sonic as a character is basically Poochie crossed with Felix the Cat.
I liked Poochie and he was harmless, so no complaints from me.
I liked Poochie and he was harmless, so no complaints from me.
I love you. :lol
So basically "I can generalize you guys if I want, even if I'm wrong. Deal with it."?
Great attitude there!
People draw what they like, and ill continue to do so, hence why you should never type in cloud strife fan art anywhere.
Wait what?
Lightning Lord
Banned
I feel as though this thread has taken a very strange turn.
Your argument boils down to "yeah I'm unfairly generalizing, but its okay because everyone is"?
Every community has its oddities. As long as there are people who do not adhere to whatever bizarre traits that community subscribes to, its unfair and plain ignorant to generalize the community as a whole.
You wouldn't say this if you were born before 1985, or totally ignorant of your childhood if you were.
The Sonic fan base now is just a very a loud echo chamber.
Hello pot, my name is kettle I have things to say about your appearence
Eh, cant say I agree, I am apart of alot of loud echo chambers, I like megaman. While sonic isnt the most popular guy on the planet, I honestly believe his fan base grew.