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Guilty Gear Xrd early protoype images

R

RangerBAD

Member
011p5j7h.jpg


Sol Fatguy?
 
S

SAB CA

Sketchbook Picasso
Chev said:
Some of them were. Like, the basic principle of the outlines has been around for a long time, but on the other hand the things that really bring them to life, the variable width and z-offset, are pretty much unheard of. But one big difference with other cel-shaded games which drove a lot of their decisions, is they were specifically going for looking as 2D as possible. Something like the Naruto games is still designed with a 3D game in mind, so it has to look good at all angles, while many Xrd tricks are dependent on strict camera control. The local character lighting alone would be a lot less convincing with a free 3D camera, and some other things they don't talk about like how characters don't intersect even when the occupy the same spot would be a lot harder.
Click to expand...

It just always seems weird to me how little game artist try to fuse the best aspects of 2D and 3D, I guess you could say. While in class for 3D animation, people would speak about how 3D animation was just too smooth and looked odd alongside 2D, because of it's high frame rate. Always made me wonder why so many animations didn't just cut down the 3D animation frame rate and tween'd animations, in order to directly replicate the object being made with traditional tools.

Things like the downloadable Rocket Knight Adventures game, Bomberman Live, Sonic 4, Mighty No. 9.... even loads of "HD Remakes" all could benefit from the 2D-favoring concepts this game is using. This feels like an idea that SHOULD have been a natural progression somewhere between the use of CG sprites used in games like Donkey Kong Country, successful 3D anime styles in games like Threads of Fate, the Cel-shades of Jet Set Radio, and the release of the Narto UNS games. Not something that pops up right at the end of the PS360 Era.

I guess the real culprit is that many of the products such a style would work so well for, are forced to $10~$20 release pricepoints, rather than $60 retail works, which totally kills the budget that goes towards producing a graphic style. I'd love to live in a world where things like Megaman X9 or Monster World V could be released with graphics like these, right alongside the Gears of's and Uncharted games.

Black Door said:
Now all they need to do is make Battle Fantasia 2 (and make the gameplay a little less rigid)
Click to expand...

I'd be RIGHT THERE for that, Day 1. (Especially if it wasn't a Sony Platform exclusive.)
 
C

Chev

Member
SAB CA said:
It just always seems weird to me how little game artist try to fuse the best aspects of 2D and 3D, I guess you could say. While in class for 3D animation, people would speak about how 3D animation was just too smooth and looked odd alongside 2D, because of it's high frame rate. Always made me wonder why so many animations didn't just cut down the 3D animation frame rate and tween'd animations, in order to directly replicate the object being made with traditional tools.
Click to expand...
Well, there's a second thing, which is that a solution like Xrd can really only be reached by having 2D and 3D artists plus at least a technical artist or a graphics programmer versed in the artistic side. For example, for a 3D artist the notion of z-offset won't even be a thing, since that's a transformation pipeline-specific thing that's not exposed in his modeling software. Or more specifically, cutting down the 3D frame rate is the first thing a 3D animator would suggest but the actual result will feel floaty and weird, because you also need to specifically change the timing and poses of your anims so they behave like a 2D anim would (which actually means you don't need lower framerate but step animation, ie variable framerate to put it simply. Disney animation isn't 24fps, it's a combination of dividers of 24fps).

All those things are things your team will only realize once they set up an experienced interdisciplinary team of 2D, 3D and programming. Which isn't all that common.
 
S

SAB CA

Sketchbook Picasso
Chev said:
Well, there's a second thing, which is that a solution like Xrd can really only be reached by having 2D and 3D artists plus at least a technical artist or a graphics programmer versed in the artistic side. For example, for a 3D artist the notion of z-offset won't even be a thing, since that's a transformation pipeline-specific thing that's not exposed in his modeling software. Or more specifically, cutting down the 3D frame rate is the first thing a 3D animator would suggest but the actual result will feel floaty and weird, because you also need to specifically change the timing and poses of your anims so they behave like a 2D anim would (which actually means you don't need lower framerate but step animation, ie variable framerate to put it simply. Disney animation isn't 24fps, it's a combination of dividers of 24fps).

All those things are things your team will only realize once they set up an experienced interdisciplinary team of 2D, 3D and programming. Which isn't all that common.
Click to expand...

I guess I'd I'd have liked to think there would have been a lot of cross-over between such skills during the earlier years of 2D~3D graphic transitions. I guess assuming each artist can shift between 2D and 3D spec. animation is as ridiculous as assuming every pixel artist can do 3D art, and vice-versa.

I just hope this game can garner attention to the kind of visual production such a specialized team can create. This is a style I'm sure many of us wouldn't mind seeing adapted and transformed through multiple titles of all genres and looks. I'd love to see a Magical Drop or Money Idol Exchanger-type game that used such a style...
 
C

Chev

Member
SAB CA said:
I guess I'd I'd have liked to think there would have been a lot of cross-over between such skills during the earlier years of 2D~3D graphic transitions. I guess assuming each artist can shift between 2D and 3D spec. animation is as ridiculous as assuming every pixel artist can do 3D art, and vice-versa.
Click to expand...
It's not completely ridiculous but I do think they are often different skillsets. But for the earlier years there's another factor, which is that a good chunk of the tech wasn't feasible. The whole fancy shadowing model thing just wasn't an option on fixed function hardware or earlier shaders, and variable outline width control requires high polygon counts (and modeling software that can run realtime shaders otherwise authoring is gonna be a pain in the neck). In the dreamcast era, which already was post-transition, Jet Set Radio really was the pinnacle of that kind of rendering, and while it does look awesome for its time it's no Xrd.
 
F

fader

Member
JordanN said:
Backgrounds are not fake. It's all 3D yo.

ih1V4tg9E1yVw.jpg
iUJ43d7kHbanQ.jpg


Now if it had some higher res textures/better texture filtering, it would be indistinguishable from anime (you can see extreme blurring on the ground).
Click to expand...

1109293_o.gif


Seriously, I am sooo hyped for this game. I hope this causes a large community outburst for Guilty Gear, NO EXCUSES PEOPLE! The game isn't as execution heavy as the previous games.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
It's probably reload

Which is good. I want it and more cards
 
T

Teknopathetic

Member
Thanks for the translation, Chev. There's some great information in these articles and going forward I'm of the opinion that Guilty Gear is kind of the "minimum" quality bar for cel-shaded graphics now.
 
O

Orayn

Member
BUT I THOUGHT UNREAL 3 DICTATED THAT ALL CHARACTERS HAD TO LOOK LIKE MUSCULAR DUDEBROS AND ALL SURFACES MUST BE SHINY AND PLASTICKY!

Kidding, obviously, but I have heard a few people somehow blame UE3 for Sol's slightly more muscular look in Xrd. It's like... Really? I can't believe people are still beating that drum, even when a supposed example of enforced bulkiness is onscreen with a non-bulky character.
 
C

convo

Member
For the arcade version ease of play was the priority so they went with a purely 2D view during fights, but they may include full 3D camera modes in home versions.

They've acquired a lot of stylized rendering know-how on this project, and note that to further extend these 3D techniques it is absolutely necessary to analyse what makes 2D anime work. They think in the future these techniques can and will be applied to other games and genres with even more surprising results.
Click to expand...
Now that sounds really awesome.Nice seeing a developer,other than CC2, putting in some real work in new stylized graphics.
 
T

Thaumaturgic Tomato

Member
This team deserves all awards from whoever gives awards for best animation and best innovation in art and animation. "Art" because of their innovative method of dealing with shadows to maintain the 2D look no matter the light and camera angles.

Finally some people out there realized interpolated "toon" animation is gross. 3D models moving via motion capture or frame guessing (interpolation) is the cel shade equivalent of uncanny valley.
 
L

Laconic

Banned
JordanN said:
Backgrounds are not fake. It's all 3D yo.

ih1V4tg9E1yVw.jpg
iUJ43d7kHbanQ.jpg


Now if it had some higher res textures/better texture filtering, it would be indistinguishable from anime (you can see extreme blurring on the ground).
Click to expand...

I still cannot believe that they brought back Shorts Low.
 
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