I'm surprised at some of the assumptions being made about gameplay. The videos captured of those playing it at e3 showed that they were having a hell of a time with the obstacles; and their abject failing to maintain anything close to the speed of the demo suggests to me that the gameplay is less simple than it might appear. It looks like 2D Sonic crossed with F-Zero, and I'm anticipating levels that aren't tough to clear once, but which beg repeat runs for time-attack scores. Easy to beat for casuals; tough to beat perfectly for the dedicated. I'm being optimistic, and only time will tell; but based on current info I'd say the game looks far more complex than the interactive cut scenes it's being compared to.
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New? Sonic Wii Movie
- Thread starter D-X
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AndoCalrissian
Member
So essentially you're saying that every auto-scrolling level in any 2D platformer does not count as part of a real game? Just want to clarify, because that's basically what you have here, from a different perspective and more control.Scullibundo said:
MaddenNFL64
Member
Time attack & ring accumulation scores posted online would be big for this... hope there's a leaderboard.
Anyone else think the original, awesome Sonics were never actually that fast.
Sure you had the rollercoaster sections, and occasional burnout but generally the game wasnt really THAT fast. Just fun and imaginative. I remember playing Bubsy the bobcat as a kid and thinking 'Whoa this guy can actually run faster than Sonic'
Also I consider Tails, Knuckles and Amy part of the original Sonic 16bit canon, rather than the shitty friends, which came later.
The whole Fzero/Burnout clinging white knuckle ride thing wont work without adequete risks. It seems when you hit something you spin and lose a few rings, which really is not sufficient if they are pushing that gameplay dynamic.
Sure you had the rollercoaster sections, and occasional burnout but generally the game wasnt really THAT fast. Just fun and imaginative. I remember playing Bubsy the bobcat as a kid and thinking 'Whoa this guy can actually run faster than Sonic'
Also I consider Tails, Knuckles and Amy part of the original Sonic 16bit canon, rather than the shitty friends, which came later.
The whole Fzero/Burnout clinging white knuckle ride thing wont work without adequete risks. It seems when you hit something you spin and lose a few rings, which really is not sufficient if they are pushing that gameplay dynamic.
AndoCalrissian said:
I highly doubt we'll be getting a 3D version of something like this though.
Map of Carnival Night Zone 1
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
maybe that was just an excellent promo video, but this game is looking freakin' sick
Magicpaint
Member
dark10x said:
Seriously, I think this is one situation where I must side with dark. Lack of 60fps might hurt this game for me.
AdmiralViscen
Banned
Maxrpg said:
xhadoukenx said:
I guess you lose.
GotchaForce
Member
Simply focusing on Sonic has my hopes up a bit higher for this one. Maybe not having to deal with retarded friends/storyline will help the gameplay.
Why isn't the outcry for lack of 60fps greater? If it is true (the videos look 60fps), it's absolutely a catastrophic!
On the other hand I don't understand the bashing of the music in the new trailer, it a pretty big step above the white snake rip off in the Adventure games and far far better than anything in the recent outings in the series (apart from Rush).
On the other hand I don't understand the bashing of the music in the new trailer, it a pretty big step above the white snake rip off in the Adventure games and far far better than anything in the recent outings in the series (apart from Rush).
rockman zx
Member
Sega if you want to make "something" on rails, make a Panzer Dragoon for the Wii.
Mr. Pointy
Member
Looks like 30fps with motion blur, which has pretty much become the new 60fps ever since next-gen started.
Maxrpg said:
Except now you can't turn around and backtrack. Or roll. Or any real platforming. Nor do the levels appear to have any height to them, rather replaced by the occasional turn off alternate route like a car game more than a platformer. Isn't it about time you put on your Wrong Hat and apologised profusely lest we beat you soundly with more 2d mappage/canes?
AndoCalrissian
Member
How many levels have we seen... two? Call back when the game is released. Bitch about this stuff when you know it to be true, rather than basing it all off two likely unfinished levels.Luckett_X said:
People can spout off about old school Sonic game's platforming and what not, but there was always one fundamental thing about old school Sonic that did indeed make it a racing game at its core...and what was it? Time.
What's this? I only have 10 minutes of game time to get through a level, before I see "TIME OVER"? Oh snap, I can't dawdle around, or I'll lose a life by default!
If the devs really wanted you to fool around in the levels as long as you pleased, they probably wouldn't have forced such a constraint like the ten minute time limit on you. That "legendary part" (you all should know what I'm talking about!
) in Carnival Night Act 2 in Sonic 3 (and Knux) wouldn't have had as much clout as it did if there wasn't a ten minute limit that was breathing down your neck, forcing you to think fast and figure out a solution to get out of there. But instead, they did, because the focus was STILL to get through the act as fast as you could. Hell, you got a decent time bonus for how fast you were able to complete the act, not how much of the act you explored! When the devs reward you for such things like a time bonus and ring bonus, I would think that would be enough of a point to show that that was what the devs had in mind for how the game was meant to be played.
So really...I don't see what the big fuss is all about. Even at the beginning, Sonic games always had an incentive on making you move your spiny, blue ass. And I think that's the fundamental thing which makes it so I can't side with FFF and his physics equations, or those who draw up maps of levels entirely, because they seemingly forget this rather important facet of the old games, while they freely talk about other details like "physics" and "platforming aspects can be supported, based on maps"...
What's this? I only have 10 minutes of game time to get through a level, before I see "TIME OVER"? Oh snap, I can't dawdle around, or I'll lose a life by default!
If the devs really wanted you to fool around in the levels as long as you pleased, they probably wouldn't have forced such a constraint like the ten minute time limit on you. That "legendary part" (you all should know what I'm talking about!
) in Carnival Night Act 2 in Sonic 3 (and Knux) wouldn't have had as much clout as it did if there wasn't a ten minute limit that was breathing down your neck, forcing you to think fast and figure out a solution to get out of there. But instead, they did, because the focus was STILL to get through the act as fast as you could. Hell, you got a decent time bonus for how fast you were able to complete the act, not how much of the act you explored! When the devs reward you for such things like a time bonus and ring bonus, I would think that would be enough of a point to show that that was what the devs had in mind for how the game was meant to be played. So really...I don't see what the big fuss is all about. Even at the beginning, Sonic games always had an incentive on making you move your spiny, blue ass. And I think that's the fundamental thing which makes it so I can't side with FFF and his physics equations, or those who draw up maps of levels entirely, because they seemingly forget this rather important facet of the old games, while they freely talk about other details like "physics" and "platforming aspects can be supported, based on maps"...
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
wow, was backtracking really a crucial element of past sonic games? i really don't remember that, guys.
Magicpaint
Member
beelzebozo said:
Probably Sonic 3D and maybe Sonic and Knuckles.
Otherwise, backtracking wasn't always the way to go, at least for me. More about branching paths.
Luckett_X said:
Ok, I played the game at E3 and you most certainly can backtrack. Although this was difficult as the player was running towards the camera. The levels also do have height to them. On the demo level at E3 (the arabian nights looking desert level), you actually made it up on to the side of a broken down type building that you had to shimmy across a small ledge while spikes were poking out. There definately is variety in the gameplay. However, I believe that speeding through the zones is what this game is going to be all about. There was a portion of the level I played that was a sort of open square shaped arena where enemies came out and you had to defeat them all before moving foward again. If you haven't played the game simply shut up and wait till you do. Videos and pictures never tell the truth about games.
I guess all the Mario games were racing games too, since it also had a time limit/time bonus. Mario Kart closer to it's roots than SM64? :lolTreIII said:People can spout off about old school Sonic game's platforming and what not, but there was always one fundamental thing about old school Sonic that did indeed make it a racing game at its core...and what was it? Time.
What's this? I only have 10 minutes of game time to get through a level, before I see "TIME OVER"? Oh snap, I can't dawdle around, or I'll lose a life by default!
If the devs really wanted you to fool around in the levels as long as you pleased, they probably wouldn't have forced such a constraint like the ten minute time limit on you. That "legendary part" (you all should know what I'm talking about!
So really...I don't see what the big fuss is all about. Even at the beginning, Sonic games always had an incentive on making you move your spiny, blue ass. And I think that's the fundamental thing which makes it so I can't side with FFF and his physics equations, or those who draw up maps of levels entirely, because they seemingly forget this rather important facet of the old games, while they freely talk about other details like "physics" and "platforming aspects can be supported, based on maps"...
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
TreIII said:People can spout off about old school Sonic game's platforming and what not, but there was always one fundamental thing about old school Sonic that did indeed make it a racing game at its core...and what was it? Time.
What's this? I only have 10 minutes of game time to get through a level, before I see "TIME OVER"? Oh snap, I can't dawdle around, or I'll lose a life by default!
If the devs really wanted you to fool around in the levels as long as you pleased, they probably wouldn't have forced such a constraint like the ten minute time limit on you. That "legendary part" (you all should know what I'm talking about!
So really...I don't see what the big fuss is all about. Even at the beginning, Sonic games always had an incentive on making you move your spiny, blue ass. And I think that's the fundamental thing which makes it so I can't side with FFF and his physics equations, or those who draw up maps of levels entirely, because they seemingly forget this rather important facet of the old games, while they freely talk about other details like "physics" and "platforming aspects can be supported, based on maps"...
You have to understand that a 10 minute time limit in a sub-3 minute act is pretty generous. Forget all the hidden star-posts and big special stage rings? You were still rewarded for exploring. It did have the speed aspect, nobody can deny that. But that's not what the game relied on alone. Remember the lightning shield's double jump? The other shields?
You say physics aren't important but that was the best part of what made Sonic such a unique platformer. Getting to new areas by taking advantage of bumps in the terrain or half pipes. Knowing how much speed you'll need to run up the wall and upside-down to make it to that item box?
Also, multi-layered levels didn't always have paths that led into one another. Take Angel Island Zone from Sonic 3. Throughout the entire level you could take at least 2 different routes that wouldn't meet up until the end of the act.
plagiarize
Banned
luckett... why do you insist that 'rolling' is a crucial part of a sonic game time and time again?
it's always been debatable if sonic games were about exploration or speed. this game is for the people that think they're about speed. nothing wrong with that.
there is still platforming... i'm pretty sure there are still branching paths (though don't take my word for it) and this game looks like a bunch of SA2 styled sonic levels. that's as good a 3d sonic game as i think anyone can expect.
you spend the whole time as sonic. no farting about as knuckles looking for gems. no driving wacky vehicles as tales...
it's not the glory days (URGH sonic games need to STOP HAVING SONGS and start having music again) but for many of us, it's as close to them as we're going to get until someone decides to make a game in 3d with the 2d gameplay and perspective on the next gen machines.
it's always been debatable if sonic games were about exploration or speed. this game is for the people that think they're about speed. nothing wrong with that.
there is still platforming... i'm pretty sure there are still branching paths (though don't take my word for it) and this game looks like a bunch of SA2 styled sonic levels. that's as good a 3d sonic game as i think anyone can expect.
you spend the whole time as sonic. no farting about as knuckles looking for gems. no driving wacky vehicles as tales...
it's not the glory days (URGH sonic games need to STOP HAVING SONGS and start having music again) but for many of us, it's as close to them as we're going to get until someone decides to make a game in 3d with the 2d gameplay and perspective on the next gen machines.
TreIII said:People can spout off about old school Sonic game's platforming and what not, but there was always one fundamental thing about old school Sonic that did indeed make it a racing game at its core...and what was it? Time.
What's this? I only have 10 minutes of game time to get through a level, before I see "TIME OVER"? Oh snap, I can't dawdle around, or I'll lose a life by default!
If the devs really wanted you to fool around in the levels as long as you pleased, they probably wouldn't have forced such a constraint like the ten minute time limit on you. That "legendary part" (you all should know what I'm talking about!
So really...I don't see what the big fuss is all about. Even at the beginning, Sonic games always had an incentive on making you move your spiny, blue ass. And I think that's the fundamental thing which makes it so I can't side with FFF and his physics equations, or those who draw up maps of levels entirely, because they seemingly forget this rather important facet of the old games, while they freely talk about other details like "physics" and "platforming aspects can be supported, based on maps"...
The only times I can ever remember hitting 10 minutes were when a; I thought I left the game on pause and hadn't and b; I got trapped in some kind of glitch (I remember them described in manuals as 'there are some traps where the only way out is to wait until 10 minutes or to restart the machine!)
Magicpaint
Member
plagiarize said:
There are, as confirmed by the same link that provided the video.
megashock5
Member
Furoba said:
Seriously. I actually had hopes for Sonic Heroes. My God, was that game glitchy.
Scullibundo said:
First off, I never said that physics were not important. I said that I can't side with the arguments that some others support, which often CITE such things like physics, but to me, that's only one part of what made old Sonic games what they were. Speed had a heavy element in these games too; even when you had to slow down and possibly time your movements correctly, you were still meant to be on the up and up. To say the least, if you didn't, father time would come and bite you on the ass.
And I won't deny that ten minutes was generous. But compared to some people I know who sometimes act like Sonic Acts were little Symphony of the Night Castles in themselves, I thought that my argument had to be brought up. You weren't meant to fool around in those levels all day, moreso to memorize the ideal paths that would get you through the levels as quick as possible, while snagging as many bonuses along the way.
Right. And I'm sure that there will probably be such instances in Secret Rings as well, such that when you pick one path, you'll possibly be "committed" to that path for the entire duration of that level. "Branching paths", to me, is just a catch-all which could describe this entire gameplay dynamic where you have to make a choice, and live with it to either the end of the act, or possibly a divergence some where in the middle.
Chris Remo
Member
GAF feels like ****ing McCarthyism these days, it's getting pretty ridiculous.Scullibundo said:
DO YOU SUSPECT THAT YOUR FAVORITE GAME MIGHT BE A NON-GAME? BE A SAFE AND CONSCIENCIOUS CITIZEN, AND ALWAYS REPORT SUSPICIOUS GAMES TO THE HOUSE NON-GAME COMMITTEE. REMEMBER, CITIZENS: NON-GAMING IS CONTAGIOUS. THERE IS A CHILLING DOMINO EFFECT. ONCE ONE NON-GAME SELLS, OTHERS WILL BEGIN TO SELL, SLOWLY AT FIRST BUT IN GREATER NUMBERS, UNTIL PURE AND LOYAL GAMES ARE DOOMED...FOREVER.
GAMES FROM THE FOLLOWING GENRES ARE MOST LIKELY TO DEFECT TO NON-GAME STATUS:
ADVENTURE
PUZZLE
PLATFORM
SIMULATION
MINI-GAME
HYBRID GAMES
ANY GAME WHERE YOU LEARN ANYTHING
BE VIGILANT, CITIZENS!
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
Chris Remo said:
"sounds like a non-game to me.."
"no no no, bill.. this one has projectiles. it's safe."
SonicMegaDrive
Member
*laughs at the people complaining about a lack of ...60 FPS :lol *
*and to the people who call this a...'non-game'.. :lol :lol *
Ohhhh, GAF... You never let me down.
*and to the people who call this a...'non-game'.. :lol :lol *
Ohhhh, GAF... You never let me down.
oh cool, closed arena's to endlessly homing attack enemies in before you can progress. phew
Also by 'level height' I don't mean "oooh I'm dead high up now!", I am referencing the level maps of the old platformers. Its one of the fundamental reasons why 3d Sonic's have never had as great level design as the classics. Many stages have 3-4 'paths' through them at varying heights. 'Height' is often what makes a platformer. You are jumping, upwards, downwards, exploring. The ledge spike avoiding shimmying also seems incredibly dull.
I havent seen any videos displaying the ability to backtrack, so I'll wait to see that, but from what has been presented so far, I find the game to be horrendously dull and uninteresting, and it is a fasttrack to irritating me reading so many "back to sonic's roots!" and "old games were just about holding right anyway!" comments.
Also by 'level height' I don't mean "oooh I'm dead high up now!", I am referencing the level maps of the old platformers. Its one of the fundamental reasons why 3d Sonic's have never had as great level design as the classics. Many stages have 3-4 'paths' through them at varying heights. 'Height' is often what makes a platformer. You are jumping, upwards, downwards, exploring. The ledge spike avoiding shimmying also seems incredibly dull.
I havent seen any videos displaying the ability to backtrack, so I'll wait to see that, but from what has been presented so far, I find the game to be horrendously dull and uninteresting, and it is a fasttrack to irritating me reading so many "back to sonic's roots!" and "old games were just about holding right anyway!" comments.
Yeah, that was THE worst surprise with the 360 game right there. Yeah, the game itself is flawed, but someone who enjoyed SA1 and 2 could probably enjoy the new one as well.jgkspsx said:
The loading, however, is SO bad that it pretty much destroys the game at times. The town missions had to have been crafted by the devil himself...