test_account
XP-39C²
MidiSurf said:
How is this a violation against freedom of speech?
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Europeans shafted yet again (No More Heroes)
- Thread starter peetfeet
- Start date
How is this a violation against freedom of speech?
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
sp0rsk said:
I'm pretty sure if he was unable to get a non-censoring publisher right now he's be able to if the US sales were up to scratch. Though lets face it, it's a Suda game so that might not happen, I'm pretty sure philanthropy's going to be the one thing that always keeps his studio open. Also I don't need to chill, nor am I the one attempting to force my opinions on others "douche".
Where did I say you were?Spirit of Jazz said:
If you don't wanna support a small studio that's releasing a kickass game cause you think that the game lacking blood will kill your buzz or whatever then fuck off. People like you are what's wrong with the Nintendo fan base.
SUPPORT GOOD GAMES
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
sp0rsk said:
You didn't say I was, I just said you were and still are in fact. If you can't comprehend the simple point that people might not want to by censored products then you've got some serious issues and shouldn't be speaking in places where people are free to express their own opinions. If I'm going to be called a second rate consumer, expecting to pay more for a product that's broken by the publishers I'm just not going to by the damn thing. Also the only Nintendo machine I've ever owned is a 64, so fuck knows how I'm what's wrong with the Nintendo fanbase.
Maybe I'm what's wrong with the Suda fanbase though. You know, appreciating a man's work to the extent I'll buy an imported machine just to play one of his games the way he intended. I'm such a dick!
On a final note, sorry Kamikaze, the comment about forcing your opinions on others wasn't directed towards you at all. I respect that you can see because another's views are different to your they make them no less valid.
gregor7777
Banned
What's with all of the censorship in Europe?
I ask honestly...I've never been to any European countries but they were always painted as free-thinking and liberal. Doesn't seem to fit that view.
I ask honestly...I've never been to any European countries but they were always painted as free-thinking and liberal. Doesn't seem to fit that view.
gregor7777
Banned
Xater said:
That would explain this game, but I'm certain I've seen issues like this before with other games.
Perhaps I'm wrong about that though...
Spirit of Jazz said:
Why are you in this thread then? You don't own a Wii and you don't seem to be particularly interested in the game, then what's the big deal? Just felt like starting up shit and swinging your dick around?
I think it's ridiculous for someone to turn down a good game, on a system that has barely any good 3rd party games simply because they removed the blood to be ridiculous. He made the edited version, it's still his vision, wtf are you on about? This isn't USA network replacing all the fucks with watermelon or something.
gregor7777
Banned
sp0rsk said:
Watermelon you and everything you stand for.
Watermelon your mother.
test_account said:
Well my english sucks donkey b**** and I didn't find the proper english word for this censoring depate. This is only one step closer to more censoring. So what's the word for censoring someone's visio ? I think Koichi Sudas orginal vision was the blody version and he had to give it up for the japanes market. And now for the european market
.I don't think there are much of censorship in Europe. UK and Germany are pretty much lands of censorship. It's the publishers fault that they are giving up on these things. Someone could easyly still publish Manhunt 2 almost in any country in EU but it had such bad PR that no one will touch the god dam game. And UK is important market so if you can't releas game there it might be harder to get profit from the game.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
sp0rsk said:
Spirit of Jazz said:
You're right, I never once mention the fact that I'm a fan of Suda's, or that this was the game I was waiting to come out to by a Wii for and I'll probably still end up importing one.
sp0rsk said:
I think it's ridiculous to censor a game in fear of a media uproar when a countless number of titles including the same kind of cartoon violence have already got through. He made an edited version because he had to for japan, how can you to not see that isn't the game he wants people to play? Otherwise all regions would be seeing that version. Why is he releasing the blood version in the territories that he can if he wants the player to see clouds of money/ash? How is replacing fucks with watermelon's any different to replacing blood with ash when he doesn't have a choice in the matter?
gregor7777
Banned
MidiSurf said:
Gotcha..that's where I am probably confusing things then.
Shame really, for all of the supposed censorship here in the States it's nice getting the games as the devs intended them to be.
Wow.. I wonder if they are going to censore the blood in Ninja Gaiden II? Lop someones head off and kittens spew out :lol
Either way its still a good game. Would Mario Galaxy be more fun of buckets of blood spewed out when you smashed a goomba? ... wait that would be pretty badass
Either way its still a good game. Would Mario Galaxy be more fun of buckets of blood spewed out when you smashed a goomba? ... wait that would be pretty badass
sp0rsk said:
Seriously, I can't understand it myself. People amaze me with the reasons as to why they won't pick this up. As if blood being censored wasn't enough of a poor excuse, let me remind you that someone in this thread mentioned the TIGER IN THE HUD as an excuse for not getting it. It boils down to this, sp0rsk, we live in a strange strange world.
Grafical violence in games is overrated anyway, as long as everything else is left in place and the game is fun I don't really mind.
If you decide to not buy a game because it doesn't show a certain degree of violence you might be too imature and should problably not play games like these in the first place.
If you decide to not buy a game because it doesn't show a certain degree of violence you might be too imature and should problably not play games like these in the first place.
I'm just glad we got a final date for No More Heroes.
After watching both versions, I'd go with the black one myself. (Gore stopped being cool for me after Mortal Kombat 2)
I would like there to be an option in the game to choose between blood and black versions, simply for the people who won't pick it up now. Even though that's one very sad reason to pass on a game.
The over the top bloodiness of the USA version makes the game seem as a cheap exploitation game to me, which it certainly isn't. So I'm actually more than happy that we're getting the Japanese version.
It just seems to fit the overall style of the game better.
After watching both versions, I'd go with the black one myself. (Gore stopped being cool for me after Mortal Kombat 2)
I would like there to be an option in the game to choose between blood and black versions, simply for the people who won't pick it up now. Even though that's one very sad reason to pass on a game.
The over the top bloodiness of the USA version makes the game seem as a cheap exploitation game to me, which it certainly isn't. So I'm actually more than happy that we're getting the Japanese version.
It just seems to fit the overall style of the game better.
twilitesparklemotion
Member
Actually that would be awesome.vertopci said:
Have you even read the thread? There's barely comments like that. The reason for the bitching is threefold:Ogni-XR21 said:
1) The blood effect looks nice. It's not being bloodthirstyor e-penis size, it's about aesthetics. The blood fountains accentuare the over-the-top violence. The black ash effect also has its charm though, so an option to choose between the two modes would've been best.
2) It's censorship. How small it may be, it's probably not how Suda intended it in the first place (as we recall, he did say that the blood would be in the non-Japanese versions). Censorship like this, just out of fear that there could be some trouble with angry moms is sad. This is of course a wider issue with the gaming's perception in the media itself.
3) The violence isn't even that realistic or shorrifying anyway. Killer7 had a similar effect, but that one got through the ratings. There are other violent games, on Wii as on other consoles. Why is NMH an exception?
I agree however that anyone not buying the game now is an idiot.
CubeRevolution
Member
Publisher in Europe is Eidos - maybe they want it without blood.
CubeRevolution
Member
Lobster said:
Yaah, but they Co-Publish games with other companies.
Ogni-XR21 said:
There is a huge difference between refusing to buy a game because it wasn't designed with sufficient gore, and refusing to buy a game because the gore with which it was designed has been removed.
It's also rather sickening to see the number of posters calling those of us who appreciate blood in our games "immature". Emotional reactions to violence, be they positive or negative, are fairly core psychological responses in most healthy adults. Explicit violence makes most of us react in some way, and is thus one of the many tools of creative expression that an artist can employ to move his audience. Some works require the colour blue to communicate a given sentiment; others require nudity; still others require explicit violence, and are often engineered as much to excite as to disgust. It is woefully naïve to suggest that a person is immature simply for appreciating a given aspect of an artist's work on a limbic emotional level.
Aske said:
Well, the thing is:
1) Suda OK'ed the decision to leave out the blood.
2) It's the same as the Japanese version, so it's not as if Europe alone is "getting shafted".
3) Who's to say Suda's "grand vision of NMH" had blood?
To me, I'm pissed because I liked the blood effect. I really don't think Suda is all upset about this, so I think the "censorship is killing art"-argument isn't strong at all. This is the gaming industry. It's stupid though that there are other, more violent games with more bloodshed out there that aren't censored.
From what I've seen of NMH, there's a pretty heavy influence from various "hyperviolent" movies to be found. I can't say I "know" Suda's vision, but it's fair to say that the violence (namely the blood spurts, cartoony as they are) is a pretty big part of the product. Now, based on impressions, it seems like the sheer frenetic action found in all versions should seal the deal for Suda fans/action fans in general, but I can emphathize with people that think maintaining the gore keeps the game closer to its intended vision. I just don't think you boast about gore (as Suda did with the classic Manhunt comparison), and not envision that as your endgame.
It's a testament to good game design that you can base a concept entirely around non-stop violent action, remove the buckets of blood (a big draw with the kids these days) and still have a kickass game left over. So in that sense, I don't think this should be a deal breaker for people. Now, the game looking like ass, and having some technical problems -- that could be.
Just my two cents, anyway. Since I'm in the US none of this really matters -- but I'd still pick the game up even if it had fucking candy korn plopping out of the enemies heads.
In fact, I might prefer that. :lol
It's a testament to good game design that you can base a concept entirely around non-stop violent action, remove the buckets of blood (a big draw with the kids these days) and still have a kickass game left over. So in that sense, I don't think this should be a deal breaker for people. Now, the game looking like ass, and having some technical problems -- that could be.
Just my two cents, anyway. Since I'm in the US none of this really matters -- but I'd still pick the game up even if it had fucking candy korn plopping out of the enemies heads.
In fact, I might prefer that. :lol
Dascu said:
Do you think this is specific to the games industry, or does it apply to other mediums as well? Should filmmakers be held to that same rule? Because I don't feel there's any difference between those two (as an example), so how it is applied to one should apply to the other equally.
While I agree with the rule, I think there's a certain level of extreme that crosses the line, and I don't think NMH comes anywhere near it and certainly shouldn't have been censored the way it is.
Dascu said:
To clarify, I was arguing against the more general suggestions that "blood is childish" and "who cares about censorship, it's just blood" that have cropped up in the thread. The bulk of my post wasn't about censorship killing art, though I do think that applies. It was about treating blood like colour, and addressed those who choose to dismiss the artistic value of gore because they consider it lowbrow.
As far as NMH is concerned, I think it's pretty obvious that the blood wasn't simply added as an extra hook for American gamers - it's there because Suda wants it to be there. Being forced to compromise for Japan early in development is still being forced to compromise. Europe is "getting shafted" because - unlike Japan - this level of stylised gore would almost certainly have no effect on the rating. The censored version is likely being distributed over the North American version due to groundless fear: the false notions that removing the blood might win the game a lower rating or save it from a ban.
If I still lived in Europe I'd buy the censored version of the game, but I wouldn't be happy about the removal of blood; especially since gamers in North America will be enjoying the director's cut.
I got an email back from RSG. It's clearly and copy and paste job to cover all the mail they've got from this.
With this in mind, I still think the decision is a big pile of steaming shit. If Suda51 is so concerned with the action, why was the US version made the way it is in the first place? Why go about screaming "IT'LL BE SO VIOLENT GUYS" to the press? If he's more concerned with the action part, the discrepancy shouldn't exist in the first place. He should be fucking consistent!
Changing is because of "the broadly growing Wii market" is ridiculous - removal of the blood isn't going to help the sales of the game at all. It lacking a BBFC rating isn't going to suddenly, magically make leagues of people pick it up now. In fact, I say it'll harm it more than anything else because of the fallout of this decision for people who prefer the gore and because of the many adults with Wiis who won't even bother to look at the (colourful, interesting) case on the shelf and instead look at Medal of Honour simply because it has a 15 certificate and they'll think it's aimed at them.
I'll still buy it because I want to support the game, but I'm far less hyped and excited for it now than I was previously.
Richard Barclay said:
With this in mind, I still think the decision is a big pile of steaming shit. If Suda51 is so concerned with the action, why was the US version made the way it is in the first place? Why go about screaming "IT'LL BE SO VIOLENT GUYS" to the press? If he's more concerned with the action part, the discrepancy shouldn't exist in the first place. He should be fucking consistent!
Changing is because of "the broadly growing Wii market" is ridiculous - removal of the blood isn't going to help the sales of the game at all. It lacking a BBFC rating isn't going to suddenly, magically make leagues of people pick it up now. In fact, I say it'll harm it more than anything else because of the fallout of this decision for people who prefer the gore and because of the many adults with Wiis who won't even bother to look at the (colourful, interesting) case on the shelf and instead look at Medal of Honour simply because it has a 15 certificate and they'll think it's aimed at them.
I'll still buy it because I want to support the game, but I'm far less hyped and excited for it now than I was previously.
Dachande said:
For this particular case, I think the censorship is bullshit. They've gotten away with more bloody and violent games.
Well, I agree to that. If I could choose between both versions, I would pick the one with the blood, simply because I like the effect, but not really because "it's Suda's vision". I'd like to know what Suda really thinks of it. Sure, the blood-version is probably closer to what he imagined, but it could be only a minimal element to it.
Publicity and fear that Americans might not like it if it wasn't bloody enough. I think this is evident when you look at all the people that are refusing to buy it now. When the Japanese version is censored, no one gives a shit. Europe was promised blood, and now it's the key element to NMH and the censorship of it means that everyone should boycott RSG.
Stormbringer
Member
So, to summarize, there are now two different options for them :
- either change absolutely nothing to their plans to bring directly the censored japanese version over to Europe, unfortunately depriving on the way the whole European fans community (as small as it may be...) from the glorious bloody action they had been promised.
- OR effectively turning their back on their original plan and choosing that their european localization will now be based on the censorship-free US version, causing them to scrap a consequent part of their work, probably increasing the chances to see the european version delayed even further this year...
Uh...Well, honestly, right now, I tend to prefer them not to change anything to their original plan, rather than risking to see this game getting delayed until God-knows-when, and suffering the same fate as most PAL releases...
And yes, even if it means dealing with the censorship, and driving myself to get used to the lack of blood during my play time, despite how much I have been impressed by the gore effects in the footages I've seen...
...Which will obviously not keep me from paying out again later for a long-awaited 18+, uncensored PAL edition...
Goddamnit. If this game didn't look so awesome, I'd be freaking annoyed.
- either change absolutely nothing to their plans to bring directly the censored japanese version over to Europe, unfortunately depriving on the way the whole European fans community (as small as it may be...) from the glorious bloody action they had been promised.
- OR effectively turning their back on their original plan and choosing that their european localization will now be based on the censorship-free US version, causing them to scrap a consequent part of their work, probably increasing the chances to see the european version delayed even further this year...
Uh...Well, honestly, right now, I tend to prefer them not to change anything to their original plan, rather than risking to see this game getting delayed until God-knows-when, and suffering the same fate as most PAL releases...
And yes, even if it means dealing with the censorship, and driving myself to get used to the lack of blood during my play time, despite how much I have been impressed by the gore effects in the footages I've seen...
...Which will obviously not keep me from paying out again later for a long-awaited 18+, uncensored PAL edition...
Goddamnit. If this game didn't look so awesome, I'd be freaking annoyed.
Barkley's Justice
Member
Visualante said:
i think there's a larger moral concern at play than simply "gameplay". namely, censorship.