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iNvid02 · Jun 29, 2011

Amish_Gramish said:
Just like our other PSN games, Journey will most likely not have a "settings" page, as we want to make it as seamless as we can.

And don't worry, we are working very hard on using the right stick. (We're thinking about not directly stating it's there, but letting people use it if they want. That is, as long as we get it working well.)

Maybe a quick one time selection screen after your company logo before the game starts, it would be all about the experience from that point on. I'm sure you guys will figure out a way, looking forward to it.

GeoramA · Jun 29, 2011

Revolutionary said:
One of the most amazing experiences ever. The second partner I met last night also knew what he was doing (long ribbon), and we ended up basically flying through the desert together, singing to each other to recharge ourselves in flight. Once you get into it, it just flows and is a thing of beauty.

I didn't realize until that section that singing near your partner lights up his/her scarf.

Flying with each other is just amazing, like something out of Disney movie. I was ready to bust out a chorus.

indigo-cyclops · Jun 29, 2011

Is it crazy to think/suggest that turning off sixaxis camera controls can be done by shaking the controller?

alr1ght · Jun 29, 2011

Amish_Gramish said:
And as for "Options" not hurting anything, it actually detracts from the experience, because instead of just starting up the game, you are lead to a separate area that you have to go to first, and then you go to the game, instead of just, "Game"

Just make no reference to it in the game, then. Keep the motion control icons at the beginning to show people how to control the camera. If they switch to using the right stick, so be it.

iNvid02 · Jun 29, 2011

INDIGO_CYCLOPS said:
Is it crazy to think/suggest that turning off sixaxis camera controls can be done by shaking the controller?

thats a pretty good idea actually, no need for a selection screen either.
scrap my idea it's shit, use indigo's instead

bonesmccoy · Jun 29, 2011

I only had issues getting the patch: I had 3 instances of the PS3 resetting on its own, and about 10 instances of the patch download failing.

But once I was able to get it running... It's a beautiful game, much more appealing to me than Flower. The simplicity of the aesthetics and control are perfect.

leroidys · Jun 29, 2011

Amish_Gramish said:
Yeah, we have had a lot of complaints/suggestions about that.
We are working very hard to make sure the game has the best (and most user friendly) camera control experience we can.

Also, a large portion of our fans are people who have never played games before or have very limited history with them. They also haven't grown up with two joysticks for the past 10 or so years, so it is very hard for them to get used to playing with them.

That's why we are trying to make sure we use the motion control instead, as well as to try to make it feel more natural.

But the problem with motion controls is that you have no tactile feedback, so motion controls for this kind of thing will always be less precise and more frustrating. Please at least include the option.

EDIT:

Amish_Gramish said:
Just like our other PSN games, Journey will most likely not have a "settings" page, as we want to make it as seamless as we can.

And don't worry, we are working very hard on using the right stick. (We're thinking about not directly stating it's there, but letting people use it if they want. That is, as long as we get it working well.)

Ah, great

Thanks for being open with your fans, wish more developers would do this!

If you're going for accessibility, IMO, putting the right analog makes it more accessible.
It is much more likely that you'll be getting a casual gamer with some experience using a second stick in CoD, GTA4, whatever, and get immediately turned off by the controls before getting to the real style and substance, than grandma jumping on PSN with her credit card to find something "intuitive".
If you want to reach a broader audience, unintuitive motion controls detract. A camera needs to be accurate, it is not analogous to Wii Sports where you can waggle and be entertained when your racket hits the ball randomly. All IMHO of course.

Kaako · Jun 29, 2011

For those who got to play this, how does the motion controls compare to Flower?
I absolutely loved the motion controls in Flower and could easily beat the game 1 handed.

GeoramA · Jun 29, 2011

Kaako said:
For those who got to play this, how does the motion controls compare to Flower?
I absolutely loved the motion controls in Flower and could easily beat the game 1 handed.

You use it for the camera only. You move with the left analog stick.

It feels great, btw.

indigo-cyclops · Jun 29, 2011

iNvidious01 said:
thats a pretty good idea actually, no need for a selection screen either.
scrap my idea it's shit, use indigo's instead

Thank you, I wasn't sure if that sounded crazy. I thought of it right away, knowing how much they want to maintain that deep, incredibly immersive experience.

Zoibie · Jun 29, 2011

Played the first 2 levels, didn't have any issues with freezing or lockups and the camera controls felt great (although the right stick would be preferable.) How many levels are in the beta?

Vyrance · Jun 29, 2011

Zoibie said:
Played the first 2 levels, didn't have any issues with freezing or lockups and the camera controls felt great (although the right stick would be preferable.) How many levels are in the beta?

3 areas, so you just have that last one to go through

Amir0x · Jun 29, 2011

guys is it good? I hated Flow and Flower but this looks so amazing i want to believe so bad

BlazingDarkness · Jun 29, 2011

Amir0x said:
guys is it good? I hated Flow and Flower but this looks so amazing i want to believe so bad

It's fantastic, but I loved Flower too so don't hold me to that

Amir0x · Jun 29, 2011

BlazingDarkness said:
It's fantastic, but I loved Flower too so don't hold me to that

Well the reason I hated Flower was it was a sort of meandering nothing game. You floated around with what I felt were poor motion controls (like all SixAxis games, bleck) and just grabbed petals. It was gorgeous, sure, but pointless and boring and I actually fell asleep during it.

This game is very fascinating to me on the other hand. I love the idea of journeying side by side with someone you don't know without the full range of your communication. Of things not being clear cut, an obvious destination without obvious answers. I love the way they described sort of working the movement; surfing sand, flying, etc particularly with the partners.

What I need to know is if mechanically it works (better than Flower; no motion controls for walking about right? I heard about the camera control but that's pretty ignorable at least)? Does it feel like it'd be compelling over 5 hours of gameplay? Does the open-ended mystery to the title seem driving enough to keep one playing?

indigo-cyclops · Jun 29, 2011

Amir0x said:
guys is it good? I hated Flow and Flower but this looks so amazing i want to believe so bad

So much better. Pinnacle. The peak. The magnum opus. You like ICO? You'll love this.. So much to appreciate in this game.

Amir0x · Jun 29, 2011

INDIGO_CYCLOPS said:
So much better. Pinnacle. The peak. The magnum opus. You like ICO? You'll love this.. So much to appreciate in this game.

I do indeed like ICO.

I do indeed...

*scratches chin ponderously*

woolley · Jun 29, 2011

Amir0x said:
What I need to know is if mechanically it works (better than Flower; no motion controls for walking about right? I heard about the camera control but that's pretty ignorable at least)? Does it feel like it'd be compelling over 5 hours of gameplay? Does the open-ended mystery to the title seem driving enough to keep one playing?

I think the character movement is feels really smooth and easy to use. I never had a problem with the camera, it always went were I needed it to go so there was no real fuss with the Sixaxis and even that felt like it worked right. And with the way the story is presented with the visuals I really want to know more about it and try to understand what I was seeing. I just really want to play more of it.

I've never played any of the previous games to judge off off for them.

Teknoman · Jun 29, 2011

Amish_Gramish said:
Yeah, I just wanted to make sure he wasn't talking about releasing screenshots of the beta.

And I'll make sure to try my hardest to get this put into the game! (I personally would absolutely love to have this feature, as it was great to see all the random shots in flOw!)

Oh yeah, I meant an actual in game screenshot feature in the retail release.

Amir0x said:
I do indeed like ICO.

I do indeed...

*scratches chin ponderously*

Its like Desert Ico with sand surfing. The music even gives you a feeling similar to whenever it occurred in ICO.

bonesmccoy · Jun 29, 2011

Amir0x said:
*scratches chin ponderously*

I disliked Flower. It remains one of those PSN purchases that I look back at and say "Just what was I expecting?"

This is nothing like Flower, except being aesthetically stunning. The use of colour, even with limited palette, is worth the price of admission.

And most importantly, there is a story being told.

Jsunu · Jun 29, 2011

For me the game just screams Joy. The simple chirping alone just makes me smile inside.

BlazingDarkness · Jun 30, 2011

Amir0x said:
Well the reason I hated Flower was it was a sort of meandering nothing game. You floated around with what I felt were poor motion controls (like all SixAxis games, bleck) and just grabbed petals. It was gorgeous, sure, but pointless and boring and I actually fell asleep during it.

This game is very fascinating to me on the other hand. I love the idea of journeying side by side with someone you don't know without the full range of your communication. Of things not being clear cut, an obvious destination without obvious answers. I love the way they described sort of working the movement; surfing sand, flying, etc particularly with the partners.

What I need to know is if mechanically it works (better than Flower; no motion controls for walking about right? I heard about the camera control but that's pretty ignorable at least)? Does it feel like it'd be compelling over 5 hours of gameplay? Does the open-ended mystery to the title seem driving enough to keep one playing?

From what I played;-
-Controls are fine, no struggle at all, I can understand when people said they had to fight against Flower to control easily but that's not the case here
-You do use sixaxis for the camera, but it does the job (albeit using the analog stick would be more efficient)
-There's an element of Journey still similar to Flower, where in Flower you collected petals, here you're essentially doing the same only collecting fabrics/interacting with your environments this way - only with Journey there is more purpose to it, there seems to be a story (though cryptic) and a certain degree of character progression (visual changes)
-Unlike Flower there's an overall goal we're moving towards (the tower) instead of simply moving through the environment until we complete it
-I would say 'open endedness' isn't quite as much as people would expect, there's still very clear indications where you need to go, the open part would be how you go about doing it (i.e on your own or with others, in which order) and obviously there'll be optional and a variety of environments you can explore outside of the main destination. What I'm implying is, from the beta at least, the game is still very linear in it's progression
-It's extremely compelling

mik · Jun 30, 2011

Surprised to see people saying it's nothing like Flower. I think it is very like Flower. An evolution, sure, but the family resemblance is undeniable.

Equus Bellator Apex · Jun 30, 2011

Reading this thread is torture.

Complexgod · Jun 30, 2011

I absolutely love this game, but I hope they get the right stick to work for the camera, Because that sixaxis shit is annoying.

Agent X · Jun 30, 2011

INDIGO_CYCLOPS said:
Is it crazy to think/suggest that turning off sixaxis camera controls can be done by shaking the controller?

I'd prefer to click R3 to change to right analog stick for camera control, and click R3 again to change back to Sixaxis camera control.

Deadly Cyclone · Jun 30, 2011

Dumb question, is there an end when playing the beta? Got close to the mountain and it went back to the start screen. I assume this is just the first level of sorts since it was noted that there would be other environments?

Absolutely stunning and fantastic game though, wow. My only criticism would be the six axis turning, but it's not terrible. Just let me use the right stick and the game is done.

aparisi2274 · Jun 30, 2011

Just finished the "demo" and I have to say this game went from barely being on my radar to a day one purchase for me.

I noticed some others in here talking about meeting up with other people and flying around the desert... I could not find a single soul in the game, aside from some flying carpet/fabric dragon-esque things toward the end of the demo...

How can I find other people?

Deadly Cyclone · Jun 30, 2011

aparisi2274 said:
Just finished the "demo" and I have to say this game went from barely being on my radar to a day one purchase for me.

I noticed some others in here talking about meeting up with other people and flying around the desert... I could not find a single soul in the game, aside from some flying carpet/fabric dragon-esque things toward the end of the demo...

How can I find other people?

They just appear. Only one other player will be there at any given time, but I ran into one while playing and we built a carpet bridge together.

Man · Jun 30, 2011

Is it native 1080p?

Replicant · Jun 30, 2011

Deadly Cyclone said:
They just appear. Only one other player will be there at any given time, but I ran into one while playing and we built a carpet bridge together.

I turned off the my online connection so I built that bridge all by myself

*runs off to cry*

XANDER CAGE · Jun 30, 2011

Complexgod said:
I absolutely love this game, but I hope they get the right stick to work for the camera, Because that sixaxis shit is annoying.

Yeah, if that doesn't change me and this game are going to have to go our

Separate Ways

Deadly Cyclone · Jun 30, 2011

BigJiantRobut said:
Yeah, if that doesn't change me and this game are going to have to go our

Separate Ways

Damn you, I see what you did there.

The sixaxis isn't a deal breaker at all for me, just a slight hindrance. I hope they get the right stick working though.

dallow_bg · Jun 30, 2011

mik said:
Surprised to see people saying it's nothing like Flower. I think it is very like Flower. An evolution, sure, but the family resemblance is undeniable.

Exactly what I felt too.

BlazingDarkness · Jun 30, 2011

mik said:
Surprised to see people saying it's nothing like Flower. I think it is very like Flower. An evolution, sure, but the family resemblance is undeniable.

Yeah I agree, it's very similar to Flower in the core, only Journey offers more 'game' experience

XANDER CAGE · Jun 30, 2011

I've been following this game

Faithfully

ever since the first screenshots came out, and yet up until this beta I really had no idea what to expect.

Inanna · Jun 30, 2011

Jo Shishido's Cheeks said:
You guys are worrying me!
When you say only two players at a time, is that per game or just on screen at a time?
For example, if I've finished interacting with somebody and I run away in an opposite direction, am I able to encounter somebody else 5 minutes later?

netguy503 said:
Don't think so. And I think the reason for two players is there will be more puzzles in the actual game that require teamwork to solve (and it will be interesting to see how one solves them as you can't talk to your partner).

Not true!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i8ZrIz-f8k

Watch this interview, at around 1:17 mark in the video, she explains that if you like you can stick with one person, but if you don't want you can go your own way and after a while you'll meet another person. So yes, Jo Shishido's Cheeks was right. You can only interact with one person at a time though.

Blood Boal · Jun 30, 2011

Amish_Gramish said:
I know exactly what you mean! (I play a lot of games laying on my side, and when they use motion control in the camera, it sometimes makes me decide not to play the game just because I don't want to detract from my relaxing.)

And we had an extremely even more limited private test that started last week, and this was something that people complained/suggested more than anything else. Right after that we started to put a lot more work into using the right analog stick.

And as for "Options" not hurting anything, it actually detracts from the experience, because instead of just starting up the game, you are lead to a separate area that you have to go to first, and then you go to the game, instead of just, "Game"
(Think about when in GTA4, you are brought directly to the game, when in Uncharted you have a menu to go through first. And Braid would actually lose a lot of it's magic if you started not as Tim, but as your cursor clicking, "Start Game" out of a menu.)

Firstly.. I'd like to thank you for answering our questions when I'm sure you're very busy with the game. ^_^.

I think you're right on the bolded part text because if you're making the esffort to make the game accesible to everyone (specially people that are not used to play games..let alone with two sticks) like you said I don't think that the first thing they'll do in the game will be access to the options menu.

But.. you could always give the option to choose "type of camera control" in game at the very beginning (when an image of the DS3 pop up on the screen telling you how to move the camera leaving the decision to the player without having to enter any menu).

Anyway, hope you guys make it comfortable for everyone.

Complexgod · Jun 30, 2011

I haven't been following this game like some people here, So sorry for this stupid question.
Can I play this game alone.

BlazingDarkness · Jun 30, 2011

Complexgod said:
I haven't been following this game like some people here, So sorry for this stupid question.
Can I play this game alone.

Yes

TTP · Jun 30, 2011

Agent X said:
I'd prefer to click R3 to change to right analog stick for camera control, and click R3 again to change back to Sixaxis camera control.

I'd prefer this to support Move for camera control ffs. Think it's crazy it doesn't.

I haven't tested this beta but I assume you tilt the Sixaxis sideways and the camera rotates in either direction right? Wouldn't it be more intuitive to point the Move left and right?

Not only that. But having the camera on one hand (Move holding one) and the character control on the other one (stick operating one) would obliterate the discomfort when operating both simultaneously (movement/camera) on the Sixaxis.

Complexgod · Jun 30, 2011

BlazingDarkness said:
Yes

Thank you

Agent X · Jun 30, 2011

A new patch is out now. I able to play through this portion of the game without crashing interruptions.

Also of interest is the fact that they've now implemented the right analog stick as a camera control, in addition to the Sixaxis tilt.

indigo-cyclops · Jun 30, 2011

Agent X said:
I'd prefer to click R3 to change to right analog stick for camera control, and click R3 again to change back to Sixaxis camera control.

Yea, that's a good idea too. Certainly easier...

TTP · Jun 30, 2011

Agent X said:
A new patch is out now. I able to play through this portion of the game without crashing interruptions.

Also of interest is the fact that they've now implemented the right analog stick as a camera control, in addition to the Sixaxis tilt.

-_-

Why does TGC hate the Move? I though they would be all over it.

Agent X · Jun 30, 2011

TTP said:
I'd prefer this to support Move for camera control ffs. Think it's crazy it doesn't.

I haven't tested this beta but I assume you tilt the Sixaxis sideways and the camera rotates in either direction right? Wouldn't it be more intuitive to point the Move left and right?

Not only that. But having the camera on one hand (Move holding one) and the character control on the other one (stick operating one) would obliterate the discomfort when operating both simultaneously (movement/camera) on the Sixaxis.

Well, I'm a fan of Move, and I know you are as well.

But to be honest, this game really doesn't cry out for Move controls.

The extent of the motion sensing here is about the same as it was with Flower. If you recall, at one point they announced that Flower would be patched for Move. That never happened, but I was never too concerned about it. Frankly, Flower worked really well with the Sixaxis tilt, and I don't think Move could have added anything substantial to the game.

I suppose Move could be an option (certainly couldn't hurt to have more options), but in the context of this game and its existing control scheme and play mechanics, Move wouldn't add anything of value.

INDIGO_CYCLOPS said:
Yea, that's a good idea too. Certainly easier...

That's what I figured, but with the new patch, thatgamecompany just did the most sensible thing, and allowed the user to use the right analog stick immediately without having to issue any additional commands. The game still encourages you to use tilt control for camera movement, and doesn't mention the right stick, but the right stick functions if you use it.

Wario64 · Jun 30, 2011

2.02 update is out

Also, you can submit stuff here:

http://psnbeta.us.playstation.com/journey/

Replicant · Jun 30, 2011

TTP said:
-_-

Why does TGC hate the Move? I though they would be all over it.

The game doesn't really need Move, IMO. I mean, it's just not intuitive control if I have to use Move.

Thank TGC for adding right stick control for camera though. Will play again tonight with online turned on this time.

Killthee · Jun 30, 2011

psnbeta.us.playstation.com/journey

I'm getting a not authorized error so I'm not sure if the site is fully up yet.

mik · Jun 30, 2011

I was afraid right stick camera controls would make it feel too much like a "normal" video game and less like an "experience," but they work beautifully. I was completely wrong.

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