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Azure Dream · Mar 30, 2012

mrklaw said:
fuck, is that the level we're at now - commenting on entirely anonymous, unsubstantiated random postings?

That's still better off than the Wii U thread...

mrklaw said:
Surely its simpler to assume random bullshit and move on?

itsgreen said:
Well it can be edited, well atleast the text Edit: is on the bottom...

So could very well be just a hoax...

The "Edit" could have been from an original posting, before it was pasted into the Pastebin. The date is the real suspect thing, since it was supposedly posted way before the Orbis name was brought up anywhere else. But it could very well be someone who got ahold of a real Sony code name, for a project that may have nothing to do with consoles (or only partially, like some interface system), and used that to give fake specs a hint of legitimacy. I don't know, I'm not saying I believe it myself.

zoukka · Mar 30, 2012

"Anti-used games" would be just the final nail in Sony's videogames department coffin imo.

Busty · Mar 30, 2012

Four_Chamber said:
Have to say its somewhat impressive that this person knew the Orbis name in December of 2011, well over three months before the rest of the world knew about it. Doesn't prove the details are correct but its interesting information nonetheless.

Exactly. Just because one detail was 'correct' (or guessed correctly given the Latin naming of the VITA) doesn't instantly validate the rest of the information.

gofreak · Mar 30, 2012

It's maybe not entirely outrageous that Sony would go with 32-bit cores depending on the amount of memory they want to put in the system. Apparently our old friend nAo has argued that anything more than 32-bit addressing is wasteful in a console if it doesn't have more than x amount of memory - so I don't know, maybe someone at AMD or Sony agrees. It still seems a bit of a stretch though, and other aspects I think were discussed earlier as technically unsound.

The Kotaku info also seems to directly (x64) and indirectly ('the system specs in that post differ significantly from what Kotaku has heard') contradict it. Kotaku's info also just so happens to neatly align with what would probably be an extremely elegant chip/architecture for a console that AMD just happens to be spinning up for 2013 - whose specs don't jive with the pastebin post either.

It's quite possible the author did have some real information, such as the codename stuff, but it doesn't automatically imply the whole thing is credible. I've run into several instances of private whisperings about future stuff that turned out to be partially spot on, partially not. Sometimes, I think, people are told a nugget of truth, but then goose it up when they pass it on to try and make things more juicy, or to try and get someone to print something that originated from them. They'll add bits to try and bait someone into reporting it, for the satisfaction of knowing they 'broke' a story to some big name site. And the pastebin guy notes that he had been trying to sell some journos on the story. Or sometimes, there's just simple cases of crossed wires.

evil solrac v3.0 · Mar 30, 2012

Four_Chamber said:
Have to say its somewhat impressive that this person knew the Orbis name in December of 2011, well over three months before the rest of the world knew about it. Doesn't prove the details are correct but its interesting information nonetheless.

but the rest of it is such crap it's not even worth considering.

jeff_rigby · Mar 30, 2012

Several out of the box thinkers are starting to come up with another theory for Orbis:

"Illustrations & Sketches for new PlayStation Orbis features."

The photos depict several people moving around in front of some sort of Kinect-like motion-sensing device that rests on top of a television. (As a commenter points out, this device also resembles the PlayStation Eye accessory.) One person is using what appears to be an iPhone or iPod to control music that may be linked to the game system as well.

Speculation: Orbis is the code name for AR Software using the new Sony depth sensing camera. Vita AR also ties into the platform. It's PS3 and Vita ecosystem (circle of life) software applications.

I've previously posted the Khronos PDF that states AR is industry targeted for September 2012, Openmax 1.2 (which has APIs supporting a depth sensing camera) and the Sony patent for a depth sensing camera were published last month....and now we have a Sony site that supports "Orbis" but no idea what Orbis is. All this is fact, speculation is that Sony is producing a new depth sensing camera to give added features to AR for Software and applications to be released this September or it's a "Developer" site for the PS4 that's two years off. Which is more likely?

The Pastebin cite has so many things that must be wrong. Again gofreak posted two patents that would be possible with an IR depth sensing camera from 2010 and I believe his above explanation for the pastebin cite to be probable "It's quite possible the author did have some real information, such as the codename stuff, but it doesn't automatically imply the whole thing is credible." My take is the 32 bit processor part is provably bogus as Sony has stated they have plans to use the chipset for medical imaging and that will have more than 4 gigs of memory. This puts a cloud over everything in the post.

Limanima · Mar 30, 2012

Could someone please explain me why the lack of Cell imediately implies that there will be no BC? Just asking. I seriously doubt that PSN games wouldn't run anymore.
Couldn't the games run on a emulator of some sort? Given the processor and GPU are powerfull enough for that of course.

LightofRohan · Mar 30, 2012

The anti-used game fear needs to die. It happens every console cycle. Why? Because every new console, publishers rush up to Sony and Microsoft, "HEY! HEY! Could you guys do something about Use games? It really sucks..." S/M, "Yea sure we could do something..." New reports, "SONY AND MICROSOFT WILL KILL USED GAMES!" S/M, "...but we wont. Are you crazy?"

jeff_rigby · Mar 30, 2012

Limanima said:
Could someone please explain me why the lack of Cell imediately implies that there will be no BC? Just asking. I seriously doubt that PSN games wouldn't run anymore.
Couldn't the games run on a emulator of some sort? Given the processor and GPU are powerfull enough for that of course.

Don't hold me to accuracy but roughly a Power PC processor is 2X faster (not more powerful) than a X86 CPU and a Cell SPU is 10X faster than a Power PC processor. This is supported by articles and Codec processes on the PS3 were 20 times faster than quad X86 (2010). It's the speed/timing that is the issue.

My understanding is that for one (few) physics calculation(s) a SPU is much faster than a OpenCL enabled GPU but for an array of calculations a GPU which has hundreds of math cells is faster. The ratio is roughly 2 power PC processors are equal to 32 GPU elements (this from 2008).

That's as far as I can go but BC brings up the above issues that seem to indicate X86 is not a better choice for a game console unless there is some other issue like R&D costs.

mrklaw · Mar 30, 2012

gofreak said:
It's maybe not entirely outrageous that Sony would go with 32-bit cores depending on the amount of memory they want to put in the system. Apparently our old friend nAo has argued that anything more than 32-bit addressing is wasteful in a console if it doesn't have more than x amount of memory - so I don't know, maybe someone at AMD or Sony agrees. It still seems a bit of a stretch though, and other aspects I think were discussed earlier as technically unsound.

The Kotaku info also seems to directly (x64) and indirectly ('the system specs in that post differ significantly from what Kotaku has heard') contradict it. Kotaku's info also just so happens to neatly align with what would probably be an extremely elegant chip/architecture for a console that AMD just happens to be spinning up for 2013 - whose specs don't jive with the pastebin post either.

It's quite possible the author did have some real information, such as the codename stuff, but it doesn't automatically imply the whole thing is credible. I've run into several instances of private whisperings about future stuff that turned out to be partially spot on, partially not. Sometimes, I think, people are told a nugget of truth, but then goose it up when they pass it on to try and make things more juicy, or to try and get someone to print something that originated from them. They'll add bits to try and bait someone into reporting it, for the satisfaction of knowing they 'broke' a story to some big name site. And the pastebin guy notes that he had been trying to sell some journos on the story. Or sometimes, there's just simple cases of crossed wires.

32 bit addressing is one thing, but '32 bit CPU' suggests 32 bit data more than addressable memory - unless again it got mangled in the mix.

The whole thing doesn't ring true - the guy says he got sent info on performance just like other devs, but then why not post that info rather than the paraphrasing he's done? MS/Sony would send a ton more detailed info than that, and if he's posting anonymously just stick it all up there.

REMEMBER CITADEL · Mar 30, 2012

mrklaw said:
fuck, is that the level we're at now - commenting on entirely anonymous, unsubstantiated random postings?

It's not unsubstantiated, this was the first mention of both Durango and Orbis code names, before we found out about them from different sources. That doesn't confirm that's it's true (he might've lied), and the info might be outdated, but it is very interesting and he obviously did have some insight into the whole situation.

itsgreen said:
Well it can be edited, well atleast the text Edit: is on the bottom...

So could very well be just a hoax...

Nope, you can only edit the local copy, but the original stays untouched. Also, guest users can't edit posts once they post them, it says so on the "create new paste" page.

Globox_82 · Mar 30, 2012

jeff_rigby said:
Don't hold me to accuracy but roughly a Power PC processor is 2X faster (not more powerful) than a X86 CPU and a Cell SPU is 10X faster than a Power PC processor. This is supported by articles and Codec processes on the PS3 were 20 times faster than quad X86 (2010). It's the speed/timing that is the issue.

My understanding is that for one (few) physics calculation(s) a SPU is much faster than a OpenCL enabled GPU but for an array of calculations a GPU which has hundreds of math cells is faster. The ratio is roughly 2 power PC processors are equal to 32 GPU elements (this from 2008).

That's as far as I can go but BC brings up the above issues that seem to indicate X86 is not a better choice for a game console unless there is some other issue like R&D costs.

Ok if Cell is that fast, but non cell CPU in CPU would make sense so that there is generation leap noticeable (I know GPU plays major role but CPU wise speaking) ?

Card Boy · Mar 30, 2012

Whether the Anti-used console rumor is true the PS4 could be disastrous either way for Sony considering the way the PSP/Vita/PS3 have being going lately.

Anti-used console combined with no BC would make the PS4 flop for sure.

Mandoric · Mar 30, 2012

Limanima said:
Could someone please explain me why the lack of Cell imediately implies that there will be no BC? Just asking. I seriously doubt that PSN games wouldn't run anymore.
Couldn't the games run on a emulator of some sort? Given the processor and GPU are powerfull enough for that of course.

Depends on what you mean by "not Cell". If you mean a PPC tied to a bunch of SPEs or SPE-alike co-processors? Not necessarily too outrageous.
If you mean something wildly different like a PC derivative, "powerful enough" is a long way down the road. Look at how rough PS2 emulation still is, and that's held back by a single specialized core handling video effects you can "fake" rather than six of them handling actual game logic.

gofreak said:
It's maybe not entirely outrageous that Sony would go with 32-bit cores depending on the amount of memory they want to put in the system. Apparently our old friend nAo has argued that anything more than 32-bit addressing is wasteful in a console if it doesn't have more than x amount of memory - so I don't know, maybe someone at AMD or Sony agrees. It still seems a bit of a stretch though, and other aspects I think were discussed earlier as technically unsound.

It stinks because the whole argument for Sony going with AMD is a) Sony wanting an off-the-shelf part and b) AMD finding a customer for an existing solution. Arguing that a 32-bit console is feasible is fine, but actually making a 32-bit console would mean Sony's paying to custom-build another porting nightmare and AMD's tearing up most of what they've done architecturally for the past decade just to make something "probably just as good for now".

gofreak · Mar 30, 2012

mrklaw said:
32 bit addressing is one thing, but '32 bit CPU' suggests 32 bit data more than addressable memory - unless again it got mangled in the mix.

I may be quite wrong here, but I believe there are those who argue that in a games machine you don't need more than 32-bit data precision...that the need for 64-bit would come more from the need for 64-bit memory addressing depending on how much memory you had in there vs needing 64-bit data registers. That doesn't preclude SIMD processing of course where you usually derive '128-bit-ness', 32-bit CPUs did have '128-bit' vector processing.

I am playing devil's advocate on the part of the rumour though - like I say I still think it's a bit of a stretch. It would be the much simpler option to just plump for whatever AMD has handiest, which right now would be x64 stuff. And the Kotaku info does specify a x64 CPU.

mrklaw said:
The whole thing doesn't ring true - the guy says he got sent info on performance just like other devs, but then why not post that info rather than the paraphrasing he's done?

He probably didn't actually get a hold of that information himself. He probably picked up a limited amount second-hand.

gofreak · Mar 30, 2012

Mandoric said:
It stinks because the whole argument for Sony going with AMD is a) Sony wanting an off-the-shelf part and b) AMD finding a customer for an existing solution. Arguing that a 32-bit console is feasible is fine, but actually making a 32-bit console would mean Sony's paying to custom-build another porting nightmare and AMD's tearing up most of what they've done architecturally for the past decade just to make something "probably just as good for now".

I don't know about the porting nightmare bit, but the stuff about crafting something bespoke is true, and yes, does seem a bit crazy for what might be little savings/gain (?) AMD has a really elegant, practically ready-made architecture for a console, I can't see Sony tweaking or customising it that significantly, at least not architecturally (i.e. wanting new bespoke cpu cores).

Just humoring the rumour, like I say...

Globox_82 said:
Ok if Cell is that fast, but non cell CPU in CPU would make sense so that there is generation leap noticeable (I know GPU plays major role but CPU wise speaking) ?

GPUs are 'winning' in terms of massively parallel processing. Don't expect the same jump as usual - at all - on the CPU side. The ratio of CPU:GPU raw power will be much smaller this gen.

jeff_rigby · Mar 30, 2012

Globox_82 said:
Ok if Cell is that fast, but non cell CPU in CPU would make sense so that there is generation leap noticeable (I know GPU plays major role but CPU wise speaking) ?

Don't understand your point?

Arm processors can have a NEON cell like processor included for codec and other math intensive applications, New AMD and Intel processor have cell like dedicated video accelerators to do the same.

Cell was created by Sony, IBM and Toshiba for multi-media and vector processing. Because it was the fastest processor at the time it was used from 2006 to 2009 in super computers, Medical imaging and to process False Aperture Radar data.

Nightbringer · Mar 30, 2012

jeff_rigby said:
Don't hold me to accuracy but roughly a Power PC processor is 2X faster (not more powerful) than a X86 CPU and a Cell SPU is 10X faster than a Power PC processor. This is supported by articles and Codec processes on the PS3 were 20 times faster than quad X86 (2010). It's the speed/timing that is the issue.

My understanding is that for one (few) physics calculation(s) a SPU is much faster than a OpenCL enabled GPU but for an array of calculations a GPU which has hundreds of math cells is faster. The ratio is roughly 2 power PC processors are equal to 32 GPU elements (this from 2008).

That's as far as I can go but BC brings up the above issues that seem to indicate X86 is not a better choice for a game console unless there is some other issue like R&D costs.

What´s a GPU element in this scenario?

jetjevons · Mar 30, 2012

If the rumor is true people have to stop saying the system blocks used game sales. Sounds like you can still sell your games if you purchased a physical copy. The buyer just has to pay more to activate online functionality. If the activation fee is reasonable I wager it'll probably STILL be a lot cheaper to buy and activate a used game than buy it new. Especially after the first month or so.

And anyway won't this be more of a publisher decision? They're already doing it to some degree with locked content and bundled package activation codes. I could see Sony leaving the decision up to the publisher re. How much content is locked by an online activation key.

It sucks but the industry is headed this way no matter who protests. Between Wii, XBLA, PSN, Steam and IOS I personally have spent much more on DD content I can't ever resell in the past couple years than physical purchases.

Maxim726X · Mar 30, 2012

Didn't really see it in the first post, so I thought I'd ask:

Just how is this going to be anti-used games? How would this be implemented?

shinra-bansho · Mar 30, 2012

Somewhat LTTP on Pachter's comments about how retailers may refuse to stock hardware that limits the second-hand market.

Has anyone put forward the counterpoint that publishers may not support the hardware that doesn't have such measures?

Who are the console makers more beholden to - brick and mortar retail or game publishers?

gofreak · Mar 30, 2012

Maxim726X said:
Didn't really see it in the first post, so I thought I'd ask:

Just how is this going to be anti-used games? How would this be implemented?

The article discusses how it would know a game was used (the account association thing), but gets rather vague and uncertain on how it would actually be 'anti-used games'.

Orbis will likewise have some kind of anti-used games measures built into the console.

If you then decide to trade that disc in, the pre-owned customer picking it up will be limited in what they can do. While our sources were unclear on how exactly the pre-owned customer side of things would work, it's believed used games will be limited to a trial mode or some other form of content restriction

'Some form of content restriction' could mean virtually anything. It's a description that could be applied to the things pubs are already doing with the current platforms - lots of games now are being restricted to single player only in used games without further payment.

So on the one hand I think a formalisation of that, or platform-level support for publishers identifying used games vs new seems like a pretty logical and believable next step.

However, the nuts and bolts of what would be restricted on a used disc...I think whatever rules there are around that would have to be done in consultation with retail. Retail still stocks games that require online passes, and I'm sure there'd be a negotiation around any further ground being given there. The platform holders will have rules to keep retail sweet, and it's in publishers' own interests to keep them sweet anyway.

TheContact · Mar 30, 2012

I'm going to be pissed if the anti used-game thing is real. I don't want to have to wait for pirates and modify my system because game console manufacturers are greedy assholes.

Psychotext · Mar 30, 2012

Maxim726X said:
Just how is this going to be anti-used games? How would this be implemented?

Could be similar to their 2006 patent: http://www.1up.com/news/sony-games-patent-resurfaces

I can't seem to get the original LA times link to work though. That had more detail. As I recall though, it involved the console burning a part of the disc with a key which could not then be modified (locking the disc to that console and that console only).

dr_rus · Mar 30, 2012

Log4Girlz said:
So assuming Steamroller CPU, a Southern Islands GPU and 2 GB RAM. Wouldn't this actually be a pretty decent console?

Compared to the current console generation pretty much anything new (even some smartphones) would become a pretty decent console. I don't care much for the CPU (if it's not Cell-based then you can kiss your b/c goodbuy anyway; and chances for it being Cell-based were very slim anyway), SI GPUs are more or less solid (although I'd prefer they choose NV's Kepler as it has much more tesselation performance), but I'll be dissapointed if total RAM size will be below 4 GBs.

Durante · Mar 30, 2012

If they go with 4GB of memory or less a CPU with 32 bit addressing could be very efficient. But I doubt it would be cost-effective to design one just for this one use case.

Limanima said:
Could someone please explain me why the lack of Cell imediately implies that there will be no BC? Just asking. I seriously doubt that PSN games wouldn't run anymore.
Couldn't the games run on a emulator of some sort? Given the processor and GPU are powerfull enough for that of course.

You won't be able to emulate Cell in software on PS4. You probably wouldn't even be able to do so even on PS5.

dragonelite · Mar 30, 2012

Nightbringer said:
What´s a GPU element in this scenario?

A gpu chip contains a array of cores i think with a element he means a single core in that array.

Uugh should have paid more attention to Computer architecture classes.

LiK · Mar 30, 2012

Maxim726X said:
Didn't really see it in the first post, so I thought I'd ask:

Just how is this going to be anti-used games? How would this be implemented?

the method used is in the article.

-ImaginaryInsider · Mar 30, 2012

mrklaw said:
fuck, is that the level we're at now - commenting on entirely anonymous, unsubstantiated random postings?

PS4 just happens to use exactly half the Xbox power - 32bit rather than 64, 4 core rather than 8, 2GB rather than 4. Can you even get a 32bit processor anymore? And how are MS going to get an octocore CPU at a decent price (unless they mean quadcore but 8 threads?)

Why would MS ship with a 500GB HDD *and* 8GB flash? Maybe the flash is for the lower end sku, but that makes the whole thing even more confusing.

Surely its simpler to assume random bullshit and move on?

It's possibly those "specifics" could be taken from early dev-kits and/or mixed with early leaked info, and the person who posted it isn't very tech savvy and just garbled everything. The ShockingAlberto info does kind of fit the general consensus of the pastebin info, that MS is building a more powerful console than the "Wii-U 2" previous rumors had suggested.

McHuj · Mar 30, 2012

shinra-bansho said:
Somewhat LTTP on Pachter's comments about how retailers may refuse to stock hardware that limits the second-hand market.

Has anyone put forward the counterpoint that publishers may not support the hardware that doesn't have such measures?

Who are the console makers more beholden to - brick and mortar retail or game publishers?

I think stores are going to sell hardware if it makes them money. They sell iPhones and Ipads don't they? And they don't get any cut of the software.

I believe when consoles are sold at a loss by the manufacture, the actual store still makes a very tiny profit and makes up the rest in software and accessories (like the manufacturer).

If consoles games are sold by DD means or if the used market is taken out of the equation for stores like Gamespot, BB, or Amazon, I think those stores are going to demand a bigger profit margin on the hardware sales so either the console has to be sold at a higher price or will have to be much cheaper to produce (the more likely case)

Biggzy · Mar 30, 2012

McHuj said:
I think stores are going to sell hardware if it makes them money. They sell iPhones and Ipads don't they? And they don't get any cut of the software.

I believe when consoles are sold at a loss by the manufacture, the actual store still makes a very tiny profit and makes up the rest in software and accessories (like the manufacturer).

If consoles games are sold by DD means or if the used market is taken out of the equation for stores like Gamespot, BB, or Amazon, I think those stores are going to demand a bigger profit margin on the hardware sales so either the console has to be sold at a higher price or will have to be much cheaper to produce (the more likely case)

It will be like the PSP Go, and how the retailers no doubt demanded a bigger slice on the product - hence the reason why it was expensive.

Globox_82 · Mar 30, 2012

Durante said:
If they go with 4GB of memory or less a CPU with 32 bit addressing could be very efficient. But I doubt it would be cost-effective to design one just for this one use case.

You won't be able to emulate Cell in software on PS4. You probably wouldn't even be able to do so even on PS5.

this is mind boggling. So this means Journey will stay forever on PS3, unless someone goes back and make changes in the code?

Globox_82 · Mar 30, 2012

-ImaginaryInsider said:
It's possibly those "specifics" could be taken from early dev-kits and/or mixed with early leaked info, and the person who posted it isn't very tech savvy and just garbled everything. The ShockingAlberto info does kind of fit the general consensus of the pastebin info, that MS is building a more powerful console than the "Wii-U 2" previous rumors had suggested.

We shall see. I still pick MS to make more powerful console. Even if by 10%

McHuj · Mar 30, 2012

gofreak said:
I may be quite wrong here, but I believe there are those who argue that in a games machine you don't need more than 32-bit data precision...that the need for 64-bit would come more from the need for 64-bit memory addressing depending on how much memory you had in there vs needing 64-bit data registers. That doesn't preclude SIMD processing of course where you usually derive '128-bit-ness', 32-bit CPUs did have '128-bit' vector processing.

Yeah, I think 32-bit vs 64-bit is really a meaningless term now a days and it's really irrelevant to theoretical performance of a machine. We really have no idea how it was meant either or if the original source even understands the implications.

More indicative metrics for the performance of the machine would be things like: how many single precision floats can one of the cores issue per cycle, how big are the caches, what's the penalty for a branch miss, is it out of order or in order?, etc. None of these things do we know now.

nelsonroyale · Mar 30, 2012

Globox_82 said:
We shall see. I still pick MS to make more powerful console. Even if by 10%

I think it is guaranteed that the next xbox will be more powerful than the Wii U... but I would still put my money on the PS4 being on par or more powerful than the new xbox and definitely releasing later. I don't think there really is much of a compelling reason to continue with the 360 beyond 2012...what big games are coming beyond Halo 4? Sony still has quite a lot of potential decent games on the horizon ie TLG, Santa Monica stuff, Guerilla stuff, Versus etc.... I think MS will be out the gate first again

Smelly Tramp · Mar 30, 2012

lol this will be fun.

and 4096x2160 my ass.

yeh it'll probably run tetris at that resolution, not full on next-gen games.

not bc? NO DEAL.

DarkChild · Mar 30, 2012

nelsonroyale said:
I think it is guaranteed that the next xbox will be more powerful than the Wii U... but I would still put my money on the PS4 being on par or more powerful than the new xbox and definitely releasing later. I don't think there really is much of a compelling reason to continue with the 360 beyond 2012...what big games are coming beyond Halo 4? Sony still has quite a lot of potential decent games on the horizon ie TLG, Santa Monica stuff, Guerilla stuff, Versus etc.... I think MS will be out the gate first again

As far as I know GG and SM already have next generation games in production. As for Versus and TLG, well...I don't think those are "potentials" at all. Especially not potential games where you would be late again in next generation. If Sony does that they can kiss gaming business goodbye.

Cornbread78 · Mar 30, 2012

zoukka said:
"Anti-used games" would be just the final nail in Sony's videogames department coffin imo.

Get used to it, 720 will have the same thing. I'll be surprised if Wii U doen't have some type of functionality in it as well.

Shtof · Mar 30, 2012

Globox_82 said:
this is mind boggling. So this means Journey will stay forever on PS3, unless someone goes back and make changes in the code?

Uncharted FullHD/QuadHD Collection
thatgamecompany Trilogy QuadHD
...and so on...

phosphor112 · Mar 30, 2012

Reading Sony's latest PR Release about their major overhaul still has me thinking this has nothing to do with a new console but instead, in their words "horizontal integration," for both product line up and network services. Their new organization pushes digital imaging, mobile, and gaming as "three core pillars."

Another interesting thing is this bit.

...create new businesses and enhance the R&D operations that are the foundations for Sony's next generation of technological innovation. Mr. Nemoto will also implement a process of stringent selection and focus in the area of R&D, to enable the Company to optimize resource allocation.

They are pushing heavy R&D as mentioned here:

The device and semiconductor businesses, an area where Sony is excelling with its industry-leading image sensors and other device technologies, and the core device R&D activities which support these businesses, will now be led by Tomoyuki Suzuki.

Heavy R&D for "off the shelf" parts? Doubt it.

Also, their completely new dedicated medical imaging section makes me feel more aligned with Jeff_Rigby on his theory on them pushing more Cell usage for high image data processing.

The area of medical technology is also expected to grow significantly in the future, and Sony's medical-related businesses that had been dispersed across multiple units will now be integrated into a dedicated medical business.

With the above mentioned, and combining it all to get the "one Sony" image they are trying to achieve, then spending countless millions on retooling and retraining their "core" game department with a completely new architecture...scrapping all their current code is exactly the opposite of what they are proposing. Also, IF they go with a cell for PS4, not only can they start off where they left off last gen with software development, but they can do the same with hardware. Not to mention they can double down, using a Cell for PS4 AND medical imaging.

I will keep my stance on my theory that Orbis has nothing to do with the new console, but instead a universal Sony product integration service.
If I'm wrong, call me out on it when I'm wrong, but so far, this theory aligns with what Sony has been saying, not some "insider source" that provides a shitty pastebin.

Globox_82 · Mar 30, 2012

nelsonroyale said:
I think it is guaranteed that the next xbox will be more powerful than the Wii U... but I would still put my money on the PS4 being on par or more powerful than the new xbox and definitely releasing later. I don't think there really is much of a compelling reason to continue with the 360 beyond 2012...what big games are coming beyond Halo 4? Sony still has quite a lot of potential decent games on the horizon ie TLG, Santa Monica stuff, Guerilla stuff, Versus etc.... I think MS will be out the gate first again

Sorry I didn't make it quite clear what I meant. Yes PS4 and 720 will be stronger by a mile compared to WiiU. It will be like this gen. IMO.
What I meant is, I expect MS to have more powerful console this time.
And ther is no way in hell Sony wait again and gives MS a year. Maybe 2 months tops, not more then that. They can't afford it.
I know Sony has a couple of surprises for next year when it comes to PS3 like TLOU, GOW4 but I really do hope their major studios are already at work, otherwise we will have to wait 2 years plus for games to come from some first party studios. Like we waited for Infamous until 2009, same with GOW3. I hope Sony has learned that lesson.

Row · Mar 30, 2012

Implementing such tech seems like a pretty easy choice if they have the capability. The people this will turn away (those who only buy used) aren't much of a loss as all they did is buy the system (which the manufacturer sells at a loss) then just buy all their games used.

For people like me who buy both used and new it sucks, but in all honesty wont have much impact on my purchase decision.

Harlock · Mar 30, 2012

I would like use the new power to have games like Skyrim and Mass Effect without loading times when you enter a house or walk in the ship.

Globox_82 · Mar 30, 2012

Shtof said:
Uncharted FullHD/QuadHD Collection
thatgamecompany Trilogy QuadHD
...and so on...

Not giving one Euro for those. I repurchase HS collections mostly for trophies tbh. Otherwise I would not bother.

Globox_82 · Mar 30, 2012

I have to say, looking around the internet, N4G mostly I see tons of articles about how Sony is done if they pull this. Even that goose Pachter was very vocal. And yet when there was basically same exact rumor about nextbox there was very little attention and "doom" articles.

astroturfing · Mar 30, 2012

Sony seriously needs to release a higher end PS4 that has the Cell so it can have BC. i will NOT buy a console (on launch at least) that doesnt run any of my PSN games or the PS3 game collection i have. but i'll gladly pay plenty more for the console if it means i can get rid of my old and dying PS3, yet keep playing its games.

also what's going to happen with trophies? starting from 0...?

TheLegendary · Mar 30, 2012

Row said:
Implementing such tech seems like a pretty easy choice if they have the capability. The people this will turn away (those who only buy used) aren't much of a loss as all they did is buy the system (which the manufacturer sells at a loss) then just buy all their games used.

For people like me who buy both used and new it sucks, but in all honesty wont have much impact on my purchase decision.

It is a big deal. It will slowly turn videogames back into a niche imo

Globox_82 · Mar 30, 2012

astroturfing said:
Sony seriously needs to release a higher end PS4 that has the Cell so it can have BC. i will NOT buy a console (on launch at least) that doesnt run any of my PSN games or the PS3 game collection i have. but i'll gladly pay plenty more for the console if it means i can get rid of my old and dying PS3, yet keep playing its games.

also what's going to happen with trophies? starting from 0...?

how did you assume this ?You will log in with your psn and continue to level.

Goldrusher · Mar 30, 2012

Row said:
Implementing such tech seems like a pretty easy choice if they have the capability.

But why ?

situation today:

Billy buys game for $60
sells to Bobby for $30
publisher revenue: $60

situation tomorrow:

Billy waits for game to drop to $30
Bobby waits for game to drop to $30
publisher revenue: $60 (same)

and

situation today:

Billy buys game for $60
Bobby buys game for $60
Billy & Bobby trade games
publisher revenue: $120

situation tomorrow:

Billy buys both games for $60
Bobby buys both games for $60
publisher revenue: $120 (same)

and finally

situation today:

Billy buys game for $60
Billy gets cancer
Billy sells game to pay bills
Billy survives

situation tomorrow:

Billy buys game for $60
Billy gets cancer
Billy can't pay bills
Billy dies

You want Billy to die ?

1-D_FTW · Mar 30, 2012

systemfehler said:
Thank you. If that is true (I highly doubt it) I will get a Xbox and skip the PS. To me it sounds pretty much like trolling, especially that 32Bit part sounds fake to me. Also 2GB Ram + 4k resolution seems to be rather hard to manage. Sony going Wii-U hardware wise without (known) innovation, tablet controller, mind control, etc. sounds insane.

Considering all the rhetoric Sony had about PS3 and 1080P (and most games ended up struggling to do 720P and 30fps), I wouldn't put anything into that. I'm sure they'll support it if it's on their TV roadmap, but it'll be limited to light resource PSN games (just like 1080P was this gen).

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