Interfectum
Member
Chairman Yang said:
Yup. This is the Kane & Lynch team attempting to keep their jobs after the bomb that was K&L2.
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Hitman Absolution Director: "We won't be dictated to by the fans"
- Thread starter Interfectum
- Start date
Yup. This is the Kane & Lynch team attempting to keep their jobs after the bomb that was K&L2.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
K&L was a great idea unintebtionally executed very very poorly.Interfectum said:
This will be an already defined great idea purposely executed very very poorly.
Robot Pants
Member
Former IO employee "Voodooman" said:
Man. I'm disappointed. I was really looking forward to another Hitman game. Thought this was gonna be good.
Grimm Fandango
Member
*groans*
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
Using Ninja Theory as an example of fan relations is not a good idea.
ScionOfTheRisingSun
Banned
Looking through this thread, the DmC thread and the Downpour thread has made me realize that hate can be a beautiful thing.
Grimm Fandango
Member
MMaRsu said:
I bet the higher difficulty levels for the game will only include stronger enemies.
Ugh why couldn't they make some kind of hardcore mode that is like the older games?
I guess stealth games are truly dead and gone now...
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
First Ninja Theory, now these guys.
Why do they hold such contempt for their fans. smh
Why do they hold such contempt for their fans. smh
Speedymanic
Banned
Grimm Fandango said:
It's standard fare with them limiting everything and bumping up the enemy AI.
For example, using Instinct won't allow you to see guard routes and won't highlight enemies through walls (which begs the question, doesn't this make the game more trial and error than older titles...something they've said they want to get away from), there won't be a button prompt to let you know when to use blend in disguise mode (on the lower settings, you'll be given a prompt that allows you use your disguise to blend...pop your collar, pick up a donut, etc) and AI will be more aggressive.
I think there's more, but that's all I can remember.
PairOfFilthySocks said:
That because these developers don't give a fuck about want their old fans want, they now running over and want COD/shooters crowd, all the the streamlines we see and making games easier,making them shorter and more casual friendly or "more" cinematic is because of that.
The recent example was Red Faction: Armageddon it was clear that Volition wanted to make it for Gears fans, they made a Gears clone and left RF:G fans, it bombed and the series died, and unfortunately devs will never learn.
AgentChris
Member
5HITMAN indeed.
Ventilaator
Banned
Everything the guy said sounds like they are making a third person shooter where levels end when you kill a specific person. I love Hitman to death, but this game is nowhere near my radar at this point, because every single thing they've said about it ever has been "Hey, remember how the previous Hitman games were? Fuck all of that!"
"We won't listen to our fans !! haha durrr derp"
Well, that really worked well for Rare didn't it? For like the 3 guys still working there with a full time contract that is.
You don't have to make a game according to the wishes of your fans every step of the way but there's a reason why these people are fans, there's something there that people like so why throw it all away?
Coca Cola Company: "Yeah we know that Coke is pretty popular but we're going to replace it with piss, haha fuck the fans"
Well, that really worked well for Rare didn't it? For like the 3 guys still working there with a full time contract that is.
You don't have to make a game according to the wishes of your fans every step of the way but there's a reason why these people are fans, there's something there that people like so why throw it all away?
Coca Cola Company: "Yeah we know that Coke is pretty popular but we're going to replace it with piss, haha fuck the fans"
You know what? I'm gonna say that I can see where these guys are coming from. The Hitman games have some cool ideas, and when I watch someone play a level, it seems like something I'd really enjoy. I love the stealth, and I love the variety of options you have in taking out your targets.
But then I actually play one of the games and I'm greeted by awkward controls. I get past that, knock some caterer out and dress up as him, take the stuff he's carrying, and walk in through the back door, thinking I'm being all sneaky. Then some guy screams at me in Spanish and everyone starts shooting me, and I have no idea what I did wrong. That's just one example, but variations on this are pretty much my whole experience with the series. I try something, it doesn't work, and I'm left confused on why.
I don't think it's a bad idea to try to lower that barrier to entry and tone down the trial and error stuff. I don't think it's impossible to do these things without removing what made the other games interesting. You can let the player figure stuff out without leaving them completely clueless as to what's going on, and leave some room for error instead of having everyone instantly start shooting if you make a mistake.
Now, if they are removing the stuff that made the other games interesting in their effort to streamline the game, then yeah, that sucks. I don't know, I haven't been following the development of the game, but it sounds like that may be the case with the comparisons to Splinter Cell Conviction. It's easy to go too far with these attempts to remove unwanted frustration, and can tough to come up with ideas that solve the problems without removing depth. Like, if the problem is people getting lost, a less talented designer will just show the player where to go or block off paths that he's not supposed to follow, whereas a smarter designer will come up with ways to help the player figure out where to go by himself.
But I'm just saying, I can see where they're coming from with these statements. I don't think it's wrong to want to make games a little more accessible, and I don't think "accessible" is necessarily synonymous with "stupid and simple".
But then I actually play one of the games and I'm greeted by awkward controls. I get past that, knock some caterer out and dress up as him, take the stuff he's carrying, and walk in through the back door, thinking I'm being all sneaky. Then some guy screams at me in Spanish and everyone starts shooting me, and I have no idea what I did wrong. That's just one example, but variations on this are pretty much my whole experience with the series. I try something, it doesn't work, and I'm left confused on why.
I don't think it's a bad idea to try to lower that barrier to entry and tone down the trial and error stuff. I don't think it's impossible to do these things without removing what made the other games interesting. You can let the player figure stuff out without leaving them completely clueless as to what's going on, and leave some room for error instead of having everyone instantly start shooting if you make a mistake.
Now, if they are removing the stuff that made the other games interesting in their effort to streamline the game, then yeah, that sucks. I don't know, I haven't been following the development of the game, but it sounds like that may be the case with the comparisons to Splinter Cell Conviction. It's easy to go too far with these attempts to remove unwanted frustration, and can tough to come up with ideas that solve the problems without removing depth. Like, if the problem is people getting lost, a less talented designer will just show the player where to go or block off paths that he's not supposed to follow, whereas a smarter designer will come up with ways to help the player figure out where to go by himself.
But I'm just saying, I can see where they're coming from with these statements. I don't think it's wrong to want to make games a little more accessible, and I don't think "accessible" is necessarily synonymous with "stupid and simple".
I found the previous Hitman games to be extremely clunky and they required inordinate amounts of patience to beat. I enjoyed them but I don't have any problem with making them more accessible as long as it's done in the right way. Not that I expect that to happen.
MMaRsu
Banned
KevinCow said:
Right, in this scenario, it's obviously NOT the case.
Ushojax said:
Patience yes.
The GREAT and really good thing about the Hitman series is this ; You are put into a sandbox level with the designation to kill a target. How, where, when you do that is entirely up to the player.
Freedom is never a bad thing.
Sure it could be made better, especially with some of the things KevinCow just mentioned about being spotted but not knowing why. AI just wasn't great in previous Hitman games, and certainly very agressive and quick to pull a gun on you.
But that doesn't mean, retool the fucking game and turn it into a stealthy semi cover shooter with a goddamn detective vision with which you can see through walls and enemy routes.
There is no reason to not have Jesper Kyd come back and do music for this series as he has always done. There is NO reason to remove things like the map, or David Bateson who was the model for 47 in the first place.
IO has NOT inspired confidence and I don't mind developers changing certain things for the better. In this case he is ragging on the old ( amazing ) games, telling us that those games had too much freedom and not enough handholding. I say fuck off and fall of a cliff through a pool in the floor.
If I ever play this game I will buy it second hand, not giving IO any of my hard earned money for a product I certainly cannot endorse. Their views of the fans and people who love the series are just $$$$$ icons or something. They don't even care about the guy who stood model for the guy they are making a game around. FFS
AgentChris
Member
Which sucks because the previous Hitman games were awesome, fun and varied.MMaRsu said:
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Because Blood Money was one of the most unique and striking games I've ever played, and to see them completely spurn the direction of the old series pisses me off.ArjanN said:
â Narayan
Member
That box art always makes me crack up.
marathonfool
Member
Wait and see.
Ever since Eidos was bought by SE, I like the direction of the their franchises.
Ever since Eidos was bought by SE, I like the direction of the their franchises.
Joseph Merrick
Member
go play blood moneyCalcaneus said:
Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
I'm still gonna try this game out. Played the old games but i haven't felt the urge to re-visit them in years. The last time i tried it felt so dated (mostly in the controls) i couldn't bring myself to finish 1/4th of blood money.
It looks good (pretty) as long as the controls feel natural and smooth and i'm stilling sneaking in to kill some fat-cat/turncoat/snitches get stitches mofakka ... i'll be down. Perhaps i won't hold it in the same nostalgic seat of glory as some do the old games... but I'm fairly confident it will be a decently good time for a few hours.
BUT: i completely understand the hate. I need only look over to the pillaging that is happening to one of MY all time favorite games (DmC) and i completely understand. The most damning peice of the entire interview from the first post is that ex-employee talking about how those with passion were booted for the team that gave us K&L. That IS worrisome.
It looks good (pretty) as long as the controls feel natural and smooth and i'm stilling sneaking in to kill some fat-cat/turncoat/snitches get stitches mofakka ... i'll be down. Perhaps i won't hold it in the same nostalgic seat of glory as some do the old games... but I'm fairly confident it will be a decently good time for a few hours.
BUT: i completely understand the hate. I need only look over to the pillaging that is happening to one of MY all time favorite games (DmC) and i completely understand. The most damning peice of the entire interview from the first post is that ex-employee talking about how those with passion were booted for the team that gave us K&L. That IS worrisome.
I bought Blood Money the week it came out, its one of my favorite Ps2 games. Yeah I'm bummed at some of the info coming out about this game. But some of the stuff posted in this thread comes off as pretty overdramatic. Not trying to pick on you, but it was the biggest example.MMaRsu said:
I don't think anyone can reserve the right to throw shit at IO until the game comes out -- then we'll see the fruits of their labour for real. I agree with him in the sense that having a bunch of rabid fans TELLING you what YOUR creative output should be is bad for general creativity. Just let them make their games and if it's good, the great..
It reminds me of Max Payne fans ranting and raving about how MP3 is going to have a cover system... I mean... it's a third person shooter! It doesn't mean the entire game will be ruined because they are including a modern feature that probably would have been useful in the first 2 games had it existed as it does today.
Like I said, let me play the finished game before any real judgements can be made.
It reminds me of Max Payne fans ranting and raving about how MP3 is going to have a cover system... I mean... it's a third person shooter! It doesn't mean the entire game will be ruined because they are including a modern feature that probably would have been useful in the first 2 games had it existed as it does today.
Like I said, let me play the finished game before any real judgements can be made.
yellow submarine
Member
shagg_187 said:
All I wanted was a Freedom Fighters 2, but they came up with this K&L shit ("spiritual successor" in their words). Now they're doing it to the Hitman franchise as well.
krameriffic
Member
duckroll said:
Maybe it makes me crazy, but meticulously working to figure out the perfect way to do the mission was my favorite part of the Hitman games. Don't get me wrong, I was perfectly capable of shooting and killing every single living person on the entire map and succeeding in that way, but it's simply not rewarding without the challenge. It's going to fall into the action trap that so many stealth games fall into.
It's a stealth game set in a modern era, and any mechanic they try to implement to give the player an get out of jail free card when they fuck up is going to seem fake to me. If they did it really well they might be able to pull it off, but apparently they have the jerkoffs behind Kane and Lynch making the game now, so somehow, I don't see that happening.
bigboss370
Member
soo will this game have scripted sequences??
rollingstart
Banned
Darklord said:
I can't tell if this is a joke...
Red Faction Guerrilla was a departure from the original two FPS games. People complained and trashed on the game, particularly when early pictures leaked out. People were still hating when the demo was released. Eventually people whining about what the game wasn't and embraced it for what it was: a different but still excellent game. It was successful for it.
As for companies that have completely dicked over their fans and ended up loved and better off? Valve for Left 4 Dead 2, and you could argue TF2 changes. DICE for canceling 1943, going with a strong console focus for 7 years; that's if we gauge "biggest hyped", which you can't so strike it. Already mentioned, but Volition. Capcom for, uh, everything. etc.
If you want an actual bad example, look at Splinter Cell Conviction. Game went against what made past Splinter Cells great. Is that why it wasn't great? no, it was poor on its own. Same with Dragon Age 2, Invisible War, etc.
There is simply not enough about Hitman yet. Maybe when they show off the game to the public, then it will be time to judge. For me, as someone who liked the past Hitman games (contracts a bit washy), it isn't hitting those notes but it could still be a good game. There is simply not enough to forum an informed opinion.
There was also the kneejerk reaction to Prey 2 before the E3 footage.
DangerStepp
Member
First, the fool from Ninja Theory and now this.
Also, those pics are amazing. I lol'd.
Also, those pics are amazing. I lol'd.