It's still shakycam and those scenes should have been shot with a stabilizer or something because it was really distracting to me. Maybe the fact that I watched the film on an Imax screen magnified the effect, but it was absolutely jittery and bouncy.
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MAN OF STEEL: Let's rant about that awful camerawork
- Thread starter Messofanego
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It's still shakycam and those scenes should have been shot with a stabilizer or something because it was really distracting to me. Maybe the fact that I watched the film on an Imax screen magnified the effect, but it was absolutely jittery and bouncy.
Anton Sugar
Member
I think what Mercury Fred, essentially, is saying, is that using the success and popularity of a movie to combat criticism is pretty weak ground to stand on.
Unless we want to put Man of Steel in the company of the Transformers series, which was also extremely successful and ridiculed.
Handheld =/= shaky cam. Shaky cam is a distinct style or look. When I've shot handheld (shoulder mounted), I've had directors physically move my camera, telling me that's the look they're going for, because my handheld shot was too steady. That's "shaky cam".
Bobby Roberts
Banned
If they used a tripod it defeats the purpose of grounding the film via a visual tone that implies a basic dirtiness and immediacy the movie is very obviously attempting.
The entire movie was shot handheld, and the VFX were done to approximate that so as to achieve a cohesive, unified look and feel.
That's not "awful camerawork" anymore than it was when Steve McNutt was winning emmies for it on Battlestar Galactica, or Frank Darabont handpicked the camera team from The Shield to go and shoot The Mist for him.
Again: There's not a single shot in this movie that comes anywhere close to the jarring handheld aesthetic that Paul Greengrass uses in the Bourne movies, or even Nolan himself used in Batman Begins.
A movie, by the way, which got RAKED online (I joined in a couple times, myself) for it's use of handheld cameras during action sequences, which are now generally accepted as being part of a unified vision that many people on this messageboard consider to be the best of all the Batman movies.
Okay, and what I'm saying is this isn't shot with "shaky cam" and I seriously doubt, looking at the visual evidence, that Zack Snyder was grabbing his operator's camera and jostling it to get the shots he wanted.
You're acknowledging the distinction I'm making, and then suggesting that the director of Man of Steel made the exact same decision the director of a project you were on made, and I just don't see it in the film itself.
The entire movie was shot handheld, and the VFX were done to approximate that so as to achieve a cohesive, unified look and feel.
That's not "awful camerawork" anymore than it was when Steve McNutt was winning emmies for it on Battlestar Galactica, or Frank Darabont handpicked the camera team from The Shield to go and shoot The Mist for him.
Again: There's not a single shot in this movie that comes anywhere close to the jarring handheld aesthetic that Paul Greengrass uses in the Bourne movies, or even Nolan himself used in Batman Begins.
A movie, by the way, which got RAKED online (I joined in a couple times, myself) for it's use of handheld cameras during action sequences, which are now generally accepted as being part of a unified vision that many people on this messageboard consider to be the best of all the Batman movies.
Okay, and what I'm saying is this isn't shot with "shaky cam" and I seriously doubt, looking at the visual evidence, that Zack Snyder was grabbing his operator's camera and jostling it to get the shots he wanted.
You're acknowledging the distinction I'm making, and then suggesting that the director of Man of Steel made the exact same decision the director of a project you were on made, and I just don't see it in the film itself.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
wow people bitch about everything
I didn't like some of the "shaky cam" in some of the conversation scenes, but the camera work overall was fine.
Me and friend was sitting close to the theater screen then we usually do and I still understood the action scene perfectly.
if you where disoriented, you got problems.
I didn't like some of the "shaky cam" in some of the conversation scenes, but the camera work overall was fine.
Me and friend was sitting close to the theater screen then we usually do and I still understood the action scene perfectly.
if you where disoriented, you got problems.
Anton Sugar
Member
I would submit the very first fight in the movie between Zod and Jor-El as an example of borderline incomprehensible due to editing and camerawork.
You can tell what's going on--Zod gets his ass beat--but the camera doesn't help.
I was mainly trying to say that, with handheld work, it can be steady, and just because it was handheld, doesn't mean they had no choice in how shaky the camera acted.
It clearly didn't bother you as much as it did some of us, so we may be looking at it from completely different angles, though.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'd disagree, but that's a decent hill to stand on regarding this topic. It's definitely the one fight in the movie that's closer to something from Batman Begins than anything else in the movie. I still found it completely comprehensible
Rodney McKay
Member
I wish Edgar Wright taught other action movies how to do quick edits right. You can still do those and still have coherent individual shots.
Hot Fuzz Battle for Sandford (and Somerfield)
I'd rather rewatch any of the action scenes in an Edgar Wright movie before I saw Man of Steel again.
The movie is a comedy. A lot of humor in Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz comes from making fun of the tropes used in Zombie and Action movies (respectively).
This scene uses a lot of dramatic zooms, quick cuts, and shaky-cam to make it seem like an epic action scene, when it's just an old woman fumbling with reloading her gun and the main guy kicking her in the face.
HOWEVER, the scene itself is a good example of how to use these techniques effectively. Even with all of the quick cuts, shaking, and zooms you still know exactly what is happening between these two characters in this scene.
I understand the intent to keep it consistent, I'm just reflecting off of my impressions as a viewer and I believe those sequences would have been far better with less camera shaking than was present. Other examples of the camera shake in conversation scenes in other movies were handled better, the camera bobbed much slower or to a rhythm, whereas in MoS, the camera was really just too frenetic for these slow paced scenes.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nothing this shaky or frenetic actually happens in Man of Steel, though, and almost all of the action scenes (even allowing for Anton's interpretation of the Zod/Jor-El fight) are a lot less choppy/bouncy.
Not to denigrate Edgar Wright as a director, because dude is fucking SOLID at almost every aspect of filmmaking I can think of.
Yes, he's parodying Michael Bay right there, and doing it better than Bay. But Snyder isn't even working in Bay's wheelhouse with Man of Steel, so the comparison seems weird to me.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
I thought Wright was parodying/paying homage to Tony Scott more than anyone. Thought he even said that when he wrote about Scott's passing.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Scott beget Bay. Both were sired by the unholy action alliance of Simpson/Bruckheimer. 
I remember Wright namedropping Bad Boys II a LOT during the press for Hot Fuzz, though.
But if you wanna talk crazy camerawork, the shit that Tony Scott was pulling in stuff like Man on Fire and Domino was OUT THERE. Really adventurous. Not all of it worked, either.
I remember Wright namedropping Bad Boys II a LOT during the press for Hot Fuzz, though.
But if you wanna talk crazy camerawork, the shit that Tony Scott was pulling in stuff like Man on Fire and Domino was OUT THERE. Really adventurous. Not all of it worked, either.
Here's Jor-El fighting a bunch of Kryptonians. Make of it what you will:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VomJ1HH72LI
Lots of cuts but not hard to follow in my opinion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VomJ1HH72LI
Lots of cuts but not hard to follow in my opinion.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Scott beget Bay. Both were sired by the unholy action alliance of Simpson/Bruckheimer.
I remember Wright namedropping Bad Boys II a LOT during the press for Hot Fuzz, though.
But if you wanna talk crazy camerawork, the shit that Tony Scott was pulling in stuff like Man on Fire and Domino was OUT THERE. Really adventurous. Not all of it worked, either.
Scott's style did go super crazy in Man on Fire. I also loved how he used the subtitles in it too. The thing that makes Man on Fire click with me, unlike most of Bay's work, is there was an emotional investment as to what was happening.
Perfectly cohesive, and the actual points of impact are not obscured.
That bit at the end with Jor-El walking outside, the music, the destruction raining...sogood.gif
Messofanego
Banned
Backed off? That's my main issue, I had problems with making out the choreography because of all these effects. And others have chimed in that they couldn't tell what was going on either.
Nah, Man of Steel confused me way more than anything in Bourne Supremacy or Ultimatum.
Bourne Ultimatum fight vs Desh
And Greengrass uses it right, to personalise the action but doesn't overuse it in just simple conversations. He uses his shakycam in intimate quarters, while Man of Steel is doing its shaky blurry nonsense on big vistas and doesn't take enough breaks to pull back the camera.
If we're talking just choreography, Bourne fights are way more memorable than any of the Man of Steel fights.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That literally makes no sense to me, but it's your eyes and head
Maybe the roughest fight in terms of understandability has been posted in this thread. Comparing that to what you just posted from Bourne, I have no problems saying the Man of Steel fight is less shaky, less frenetic, and easier to understand/follow.
That's not to say Greengrass didn't also do a good job directing the scene you posted, but to say that somehow what Greengrass is doing is any way functionally different than what Snyder did just baffles me. They're very much using the same cinematic vocabulary.
Also, the idea that there's no difference between what's going on in the action sequences and what's happening outside those sequences with regards to camera movement also seems hyperbolic at best. The camera simply isn't moving as much as you might be remembering it.
Again, this seems to have gone from "OMG ZOOMS UGH" to "OMG SHAKYCAM." The thread feels like flies looking for a turd to hover over.
Maybe the roughest fight in terms of understandability has been posted in this thread. Comparing that to what you just posted from Bourne, I have no problems saying the Man of Steel fight is less shaky, less frenetic, and easier to understand/follow.
That's not to say Greengrass didn't also do a good job directing the scene you posted, but to say that somehow what Greengrass is doing is any way functionally different than what Snyder did just baffles me. They're very much using the same cinematic vocabulary.
Also, the idea that there's no difference between what's going on in the action sequences and what's happening outside those sequences with regards to camera movement also seems hyperbolic at best. The camera simply isn't moving as much as you might be remembering it.
Again, this seems to have gone from "OMG ZOOMS UGH" to "OMG SHAKYCAM." The thread feels like flies looking for a turd to hover over.
Anton Sugar
Member
But I've been "OMG ZOOMS UGH" and "OMG SHAKYCAM" the whole time!
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I threw up after the movie. I don't remember the camera being the problem however; what killed me was the awful, incessantly loud soundtrack. It's funny because I really liked the new Superman theme in the trailer and thought it was really good, and now I can't stand it because the movie wouldn't stop blaring it. There were no quiet moments after a certain point, and it really hurt my head to listen.
I was probably already sick, but Man of Steel certainly didn't help.
I thought the camera work looked pretty ridiculous too. Shaky cam during conversation scenes? What the hell?
I was literally talking about how much I loved the camera work to my friends. I had my doubts that you could effectively film people flying around at that speed and fighting, but they nailed it. It was like watching an absurdly high budget Dragonball Z movie.
And then I see this thread and I'm reminded that there are people around to hate anything. Lol.
And then I see this thread and I'm reminded that there are people around to hate anything. Lol.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
haven't seen the movie, but was unclear as hell. The positions are unknown, who is punching whom exactly and was that means for their situation is unknown. I can't make sense of these cuts other than that APPARENTLY after some random punching Crowe is left standing.
Just look at the cut at 20 seconds, he gets PUNCHED after just shooting another, out of fucking nowhere.
If the entire movie is like that, it deserves to be shitcanned.
Anticitizen One
Banned
This is why I prefer George Lucas directed films. Steadicam for life.
Huh? Man of Steel is a beautiful movie...like all other Snyder movies. 300, Watchmen, Legends of the Guardian and Sucker Punch. He hasn't made a single movie that isn't pleasing to the eye. I thought Man of Steel fell flat because I'm completely detached from the main character. I have no idea how the Superman movie with the most backstory managed to make such a forgettable main character. I have no idea what anyone could see wrong with the camerawork. PEACE.
Can Crusher
Banned
I didn't have any problem following the action, but some posters in the OT thread seem to remember wrong quite a few bits from the action, which leads me to believe you might have some basis to go on.
I don't agree at all that camera was shaky though, the only flaw were the zooms that just aesthetically weren't pleasing at all and inappropriate really.
That said many posters seem to believe the camera work from Greengrass is confusing, shaky to the point they feel dizzy or can't tell what's going on. And I always loved it, I mean Greengrass employs the documentary style in a masterful way as he is always able to direct your eyes and channel the information in a way that you soak it all. During action they do ten to come in short bursts which some can find annoying, but I just love it because it's really really well done.
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