-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Gran Turismo 5 Detail - Dynamic Weather, Course Creator, Kart..MORE FEATURES THAN GOD
- Thread starter SolidSnakex
- Start date
Metalmurphy
Member
Except it doesn't. A racing line REALLY doesn't help you learn the track. You simply get used to following it, you turn it off and you'll likely go off the first corner cause you were expecting an indication to brake.mr_nothin said:
If your focusing on the line then you won't be focusing on the REAL indicators. Like trees, signs, etc.
PjotrStroganov
Member
SolidSnakex said:
I've had that problem in Forza 3.
To be fair, it is very difficult to switch between different car classes and be consistent on the same track.
Yea...I meant to put learn in quotes. It helps you "learn" the track fasterMetalmurphy said:
I went back and edited my post and added a little more...
I hate racing lines BTW.
The best way for me to learn tracks is to play through career mode. The reasoning behind this is, is because I'm basically forced to drive through the course at speeds sub-100mph for a couple of races. Racing around a track a couple of times in a stock honda or kia helps me learn the track. Then I upgrade to a car thats a little faster and I learn to drive those same tracks at a speed that's a little faster than before. I know the layout now, now it's about me adjusting for faster speed and learning the feel of the new car. Repeat that process until I'm zooming around courses at 200+ mph.
That's what I love about Gran Turismo. I feel as though I'm learning through limited progression instead of having all the fastest cars available to me from the start. I also love the "gotta catch em all" attitude it gives me.
PjotrStroganov
Member
Gravijah said:
As long as I don't have to race you while you are using your crutch.
You never know, listening to others can help you enjoy the game better. That's a mighty selfish and stubborn attitude.Gravijah said:
I know there's been times where I've been told and have told others that they should play a game differently and it helped.
Example: "Stop trying to just run out there and kill everything and slow down, try the silencer and knock a few off without being seen!"
Would you run and gun in a Metal Gear Solid game pre MGS4? (on your 1st play through) It would just make you frustrated to keep getting swarmed by enemies forever and ever.
I'm getting sick of this attitude these days.
PjotrStroganov said:As long as I don't have to race you while you are using your crutch.
If I'm racing with people online, I'm gonna use whatever rules are agreed upon. But when I'm playing through the the single player, I'm gonna play and enjoy the game as I damn please.
mr_nothin said:
There's a difference between listening to constructive criticism (which I do) and playing a game how I want. I'm not looking to get super great lap times, I'm looking to collect cars and race.
seattle6418
Member
Gravijah said:
Yeah, it was not what i was trying to say.
When you are playing by yourself, you should be able to choose whatever you want.
Online, that´s a different story.
I think Pro lobbies will probably have all of those aids turned off, so i believe it won´t be an issue.
I'm the same way so I see where you're coming fromGravijah said:
I'm not that guy that turns off every single aid and tries to get the most realistic experience ever. That's too much. I do get into the tuning a great deal though.
Yea, stuff like that is for the Dev to decide. Nobody's career mode is going to directly affect anybody else's game.Gravijah said:
(im going to be a hypo and still say that the rewind button should be left out :lol )
Gravijah said:
Think of it like this. Bioshock is two different games depending on how you play it. You can play it with vitachambers on at all times, which kind of takes away from the suspense and fear (and can really destroy the "strategy" in the game) or you can play with them off, and learn to analyze your surroundings and use them to your advantage.
There's really no right or wrong way to play it, but they are two very different experiences, each rewarding in their own respects.
I will say that turning the race line off from the start and learning how to handle different types of turns on your own will make you a considerably better player in the long run.
But I agree, you should enjoy the game however you deem appropriate, and don't let anyone else tell you different (even if I do :lol )
The driving line is a start to that path but it doesn't really fit with getting better whatever your end goal may be. Simple fact is that the line isn't always the best route, the braking point isn't always correct.
I just think it's necessary for PD to at least suggest to people after a certain amount of time on a track or after a certain amount of progress has been achieved in the game that you might want to consider turning the line off. GT doesn't do that and I think to a degree people get fooled into thinking they are good at GT then finding out that they really aren't as good as they thought.
I used to race with a buddy that always used the line, and thought he was awesome at GT. I personally didn't like the line so I disabled it. He thought I was crazy because I didn't exactly drive the line and because I braked much latter than the line would suggest in some corners. I beat his all time track time for that track by nearly 2 seconds on my first go. I was accused of being a gtaholic! lol. Anyways long story short he doesn't use the line anymore because he realized that it was possible to do it faster if you aren't always following it. Shame on me though because his all time best lap for that track/car is now better than mine.
Anyways sooner or latter you have to take the training wheels off the bike if you want to know how to ride a bike.
PS: This post isn't aimed at anyone, and I'm not suggesting that people are playing GT wrong in any way. If you take it that way accept my apologies in advance.
I just think it's necessary for PD to at least suggest to people after a certain amount of time on a track or after a certain amount of progress has been achieved in the game that you might want to consider turning the line off. GT doesn't do that and I think to a degree people get fooled into thinking they are good at GT then finding out that they really aren't as good as they thought.
I used to race with a buddy that always used the line, and thought he was awesome at GT. I personally didn't like the line so I disabled it. He thought I was crazy because I didn't exactly drive the line and because I braked much latter than the line would suggest in some corners. I beat his all time track time for that track by nearly 2 seconds on my first go. I was accused of being a gtaholic! lol. Anyways long story short he doesn't use the line anymore because he realized that it was possible to do it faster if you aren't always following it. Shame on me though because his all time best lap for that track/car is now better than mine.
Anyways sooner or latter you have to take the training wheels off the bike if you want to know how to ride a bike.
PS: This post isn't aimed at anyone, and I'm not suggesting that people are playing GT wrong in any way. If you take it that way accept my apologies in advance.
PjotrStroganov
Member
Firewire said:
After using the line in F3 for a while, I could use it for determining where to brake later/earlier and what alternative lines to take. It can be used in the same way as using roadside markers. In the end using the line doesn't change much for an intelligent driver except that it distracts from roadside markers. I could even argue that it can make a driver much more consistant because of its to the car.
Not saying it is preferable, but it's a powerful tool as much as it is a crutch.
FlexMentallo
Member
I am a pretty casual driving fan, definitely don't play GT (or the other console's game) for the sim side of things, but I like playing with the line off the first few times around a track.
I find the line makes driving feel more robotic and there's less experimenting with my technique - even if I make horrible mistakes while experimenting. In general I have less fun with it on.
I only toggle the line on when I get stuck in a race and need to improve my times to win and progress in the car RPG side of GT.
Maybe multiplayer in GT will change that and get me using the line more often to perfect my skill.
I find the line makes driving feel more robotic and there's less experimenting with my technique - even if I make horrible mistakes while experimenting. In general I have less fun with it on.
I only toggle the line on when I get stuck in a race and need to improve my times to win and progress in the car RPG side of GT.
Maybe multiplayer in GT will change that and get me using the line more often to perfect my skill.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
car downgrade between photomode (ps4 spec cars) and in-game ps3 models:
Metalmurphy
Member
There are complete objects missing and everything. Where are those shots from btw? Considering the size both the pics were photomode so...
SolidSnakex
Member
Inside Sim Racing has their GT5 story up. It starts at 28:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJDn_cjyTno
They have some really high quality footage in there
This is just part 1. They'll have the second part in their next episode.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJDn_cjyTno
They have some really high quality footage in there
This is just part 1. They'll have the second part in their next episode.
Funky Functionality
Member
Driving lines are the equivalent of a "for dummies" book for each circuit. It's not going to teach you everything you need to know to be proficient in every situation, but it'll get you around the track with minimal effort. However, your driving skills will not be improved. Imagine playing a first-person shooter with heavy aim assist, believing that it will help you improve your own ability to aim. I'd liken that to driving a circuit on a predefined line and believing it will help you become a faster driver. Same goes for driving assists.
I'd never recommend them, even for novices. They give rise to habits that are hard to break and instill a false "ceiling" on your skills and lap times. It's much more productive to take a natural approach to learning a track. If you want to be fast, this is what you should do when faced with a new course:
1. Find a car with which you're completely comfortable. It should be a car that feels predictable to you at all times. It doesn't have to be the fastest car in the world and shouldn't provide you with any struggles at its limits.
2. Use all the visual cues on the track itself to help you memorize the layout. Don't try to go fast right away--simply learn the layout.
3. When you're comfortable with the layout and it's time to start pushing, don't approach the track conceptually on a corner-by-corner basis. Break it down into 3 or 4 sections first by grouping corners together, and work on each section as a whole. Understand that your performance through one corner affects your approach to the next, so it's very important to develop a good sense of rhythm throughout groups of corners.
4. Pay more attention to your RPMs in each gear rather than your indicated MPH/KPH. Don't think to yourself, "ok, I can safely enter this corner at 65 mph," but rather, "I can safely enter this corner at the top of 3rd gear." This will eventually help you focus all of your visual attention to the track, as you'll simply be able to listen to the car and know exactly how fast you're going in relation to the corner you're approaching.
These are all very basic guidelines, but they'll help you become an experienced driver in a way unlike any racing line will. The skills you learn on one track will certainly translate to others, so learning the next one will be a simple matter of comparing a new corner to a similar one you've already mastered and compensating for the differences. You'll soon find you won't need a line at all; 5 or 6 laps at most and you'll be up to a decent pace with the ability to make changes on the fly during racing situations where you may not always be afforded the opportunity to take the ideal line.
I'd never recommend them, even for novices. They give rise to habits that are hard to break and instill a false "ceiling" on your skills and lap times. It's much more productive to take a natural approach to learning a track. If you want to be fast, this is what you should do when faced with a new course:
1. Find a car with which you're completely comfortable. It should be a car that feels predictable to you at all times. It doesn't have to be the fastest car in the world and shouldn't provide you with any struggles at its limits.
2. Use all the visual cues on the track itself to help you memorize the layout. Don't try to go fast right away--simply learn the layout.
3. When you're comfortable with the layout and it's time to start pushing, don't approach the track conceptually on a corner-by-corner basis. Break it down into 3 or 4 sections first by grouping corners together, and work on each section as a whole. Understand that your performance through one corner affects your approach to the next, so it's very important to develop a good sense of rhythm throughout groups of corners.
4. Pay more attention to your RPMs in each gear rather than your indicated MPH/KPH. Don't think to yourself, "ok, I can safely enter this corner at 65 mph," but rather, "I can safely enter this corner at the top of 3rd gear." This will eventually help you focus all of your visual attention to the track, as you'll simply be able to listen to the car and know exactly how fast you're going in relation to the corner you're approaching.
These are all very basic guidelines, but they'll help you become an experienced driver in a way unlike any racing line will. The skills you learn on one track will certainly translate to others, so learning the next one will be a simple matter of comparing a new corner to a similar one you've already mastered and compensating for the differences. You'll soon find you won't need a line at all; 5 or 6 laps at most and you'll be up to a decent pace with the ability to make changes on the fly during racing situations where you may not always be afforded the opportunity to take the ideal line.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
from gt planet.Metalmurphy said:
photo travel (photo location) high spec model
photomode (circuit location) low spec model
Metalmurphy
Member
Wax Free Vanilla said:
Could just be a LOD thing. Both cars are at different distances.
http://www.gtpla.net/wp-content/upl..._JAGUAR_XJ13_66_Ford_GT40markIVRaceCar_01.jpg
http://www.gtpla.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Circuit-de-la-Sarthe_Jaguar_XJ13-Race-Car.jpg
Although, not sure the second one is far enough for the LOD to be that drastic.
Psychotext
Member
I haven't watched the vid, but those grabs aren't very flattering.SolidSnakex said:
Edit - Have watched the footage now, compression seems to be doing it no favours whatsoever.
Metalmurphy
Member
No... it isn't. FOV might be different but it's still farther away.cakefoo said:
The gameplay shot looks like it was taken with a Google Earth camera and the car's right up next to it. The photo mode shot was taken with a telephoto and obviously needed to be a greater distance from the car.Metalmurphy said:
The best case scenario (for you): the cars are at equal distances, but the green car AIN'T further away, son.
Metalmurphy
Member
cakefoo said:
Erm... you do realize that as far as rendering goes, it doesn't matter how far the "camera" is right?
If you zoom in or out the LOD changes still kick in. What matters is what's being rendered on screen. And you can clearly see that the entire engine "window" is bigger on the photo travel shot, "son".
And this is admitting that the camera is indeed farther away, something that you still can't prove, despite it's irrelevance.
Ashes1396 said:
Some of them will impede your times, so turning them off allows you to achieve greater lap times, at the expense of the predictability. It's sort of "risk reward" in a sense. With the assists on, if you make a mistake they will compensate a little, if you have them off, well, better know what you're doing!
Metalmurphy
Member
Yeah, they are at different distances, from a rendering POV, which is what matters. What exactly are you trying to accomplish anyway?cakefoo said:
We're talking about LOD changes, so we're obviously talking about the rendering engine...
Graphics Horse
Member
Metalmurphy said:
Aren't you talking about LOD on two photo mode shots? LOD being involved there makes no sense to me.
The only explanation I can think of is memory constraints mean the cars have to be stored at lower detail in race/replay situations compared to the special background areas.
Or put it better, the highest detail level is never loaded into memory for races.
The detail looks fine to me anyway.
This is the offending image;
Taken as a whole it doesn't look that bad I suppose.
lol)
Since the engine is obscenely detailed I guess they've got fairly aggressive scaling on that particular part of the car, because at a glance everything else looks the same detail wise. I also have to agree that the 'distances' in both images is not the same, nor the composition, environment and various other factors such as camera settings which may possibly affect the swapping in and out of the higher detailed engine bay.
Based on GT5p and the demo pods of GT5 (both in-game and replay) I'm not concerned about the level of detail on these cars in or out of photomode. Indeed this could just be an isolated case where the car dictated the methods, we don't know yet.
Taken as a whole it doesn't look that bad I suppose.
lol)Since the engine is obscenely detailed I guess they've got fairly aggressive scaling on that particular part of the car, because at a glance everything else looks the same detail wise. I also have to agree that the 'distances' in both images is not the same, nor the composition, environment and various other factors such as camera settings which may possibly affect the swapping in and out of the higher detailed engine bay.
Based on GT5p and the demo pods of GT5 (both in-game and replay) I'm not concerned about the level of detail on these cars in or out of photomode. Indeed this could just be an isolated case where the car dictated the methods, we don't know yet.
Is that true? I never noticed any difference except in aliasing?
Metalmurphy
Member
Doesn't make sense to me either. But it worked like that in GT4 as well. I can remember the rims being lower quality outside of the Photo Travel mode, even in photo mode.Graphics Horse said:
Memory might be an issue but they could just render parts of the image at a time and then put it all together. I think Halo 3 does it that way.
The weirdest thing in all this though, is that in GT5P, during gameplay, ALL the details are there. If you'd stop your car in the middle of the tracksideways and block the other cars and turn the camera around, you'd see the headlights in all its glorious detail, which brings me back to the, it might just be a LOD thing.
You're not doing a very good job then. Just making yourself look like a fool.cakefoo said:
Cigol said:This is the offending image;
Taken as a whole it doesn't look that bad I suppose.
Since the engine is obscenely detailed I guess they've got fairly aggressive scaling on that particular part of the car, because at a glance everything else looks the same detail wise. I also have to agree that the 'distances' in both images is not the same, nor the composition, environment and various other factors such as camera settings which may possibly affect the swapping in and out of the higher detailed engine bay.
Based on GT5p and the demo pods of GT5 (both in-game and replay) I'm not concerned about the level of detail on these cars in or out of photomode. Indeed this could just be an isolated case where the car dictated the methods, we don't know yet.
Is that true? I never noticed any difference except in aliasing?
Actual photo mode and in game have same models... this is referring to photo locations, not photo mode. photo location is when you have single car posing for shot
.