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the advantages and disadvantages of english as a global language
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Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
I'm curious about the merits of various writing systems. I know the Korean Hangul and Indian Devanagari systems are reputed for being logical, consistent, flexible, and powerful, and Mandarin and Mandarin-derived writing systems (like Kanji) are supposed to be hellish and memorization-intensive, but I'm curious as to how other scripts stack up. I'm assuming Latin/Cyrillic writing systems are somewhere in between? What about Arabic or African languages?
Instigator
Banned
Seth C said:
Not completely true because this statement ignores large regional languages like French and Russian.
laesperanzapaz
Member
i think someone here said 'english is easy to learn the basics but hard to master.'
that's basically one of the big things imo. even among native speakers, very few of them speak grammatically correct english, but no one really cares.
As I said, one of the proven things about English is that it is highly flexible. So what if your English knowledge is kinda flawed? The fact is, because of teh sheer widespread nature of English, it seems it's somewhat acceptable to make some mistakes in pronounciations, because the popularity of English introduces heterogeneity [?] to the whole system.
Yes, I admit it has its weaknesses like all languages, such as: seemingly arbitrary spelling. But as for the rest [ex: sheer number of synonyms of different degrees] is it 1) really that worse than other popular languages? and 2) how much of them are used in everyday language? ex: we would usually say "the weather is nice" or "weather is great" rather than "weather is spanking" or "weather is delectably soothing" even tho they all mean the same.
but thanks for the thoughts. I was really looking for the "disadvantages" part of the thread title, and i've found some
that's basically one of the big things imo. even among native speakers, very few of them speak grammatically correct english, but no one really cares.
As I said, one of the proven things about English is that it is highly flexible. So what if your English knowledge is kinda flawed? The fact is, because of teh sheer widespread nature of English, it seems it's somewhat acceptable to make some mistakes in pronounciations, because the popularity of English introduces heterogeneity [?] to the whole system.
Yes, I admit it has its weaknesses like all languages, such as: seemingly arbitrary spelling. But as for the rest [ex: sheer number of synonyms of different degrees] is it 1) really that worse than other popular languages? and 2) how much of them are used in everyday language? ex: we would usually say "the weather is nice" or "weather is great" rather than "weather is spanking" or "weather is delectably soothing" even tho they all mean the same.
but thanks for the thoughts. I was really looking for the "disadvantages" part of the thread title, and i've found some
Tyrannical
Banned
In englsh, speling and punctuation corect is purely optional
A prefered option though.
A prefered option though.
Tornado Condor
Member
naw, fuck english
it's too limited
it's too limited
vas_a_morir
Banned
salva said:
Fuck yo' subjunctivo.
No Means Nomad
Banned
Mandarin.ckohler said:
vas_a_morir
Banned
tnw said:
As long as you are okay with being illiterate, Japanese is super easy to learn. Kinda hard to develop an ear for it, though. To be fair, I've only studied two languages, the other being Spanish. And, Spanish grammar is fuck-you-in-the-ass hard.
The principal problem with Arabic script is that it's an abjad. (e.g. If I encounter a word I don't know in a newspaper article or something I usually have to go look it up to know how to say it.)Chairman Yang said:
Removing my own biases (I'm left handed so Arabic script is much easier for me to write in), I'd say it's inferior to Latin script for that reason alone.
I still like it a lot though.
japanese sounds sharp... hmmm
I always thought it sounded kind of like french. the whole reason I started studying it is because I liked the sound of it.
it's an incredibly easy language in many respects, especially grammatically.but yes not a good candidate for a lingua franca.
it has been mine sometimes though. In Korea and so on, I end up speaking Japanese to some locals. but that's totally regional and not applicable to really very many situations.
I always thought it sounded kind of like french. the whole reason I started studying it is because I liked the sound of it.
it's an incredibly easy language in many respects, especially grammatically.but yes not a good candidate for a lingua franca.
it has been mine sometimes though. In Korea and so on, I end up speaking Japanese to some locals. but that's totally regional and not applicable to really very many situations.
No Means Nomad
Banned
One must acquire eloquence to attain good.Bezz said:
vas_a_morir
Banned
No Means Nomad said:
I think he meant "well-spoken."
Hey, how come Mt. Dew Baja Blast isn't available outside Taco Bell? This is an insult to all rednecks!
shpankey
not an idiot
This is the power of English...
it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in
a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
amzanig eh?
rawr
it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in
a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
amzanig eh?
rawr
Tieno
Member
English is easy to learn, hard to master. On an academic level it can become very hard but that's with every language, I imagine.
Although part of the reason why it's so easy to learn is because a lot of stuff in my daily life is english (movies, tv series, video games, now internet). I've learned way way more english from watching movies and surfing the internet than during high-school.
Although part of the reason why it's so easy to learn is because a lot of stuff in my daily life is english (movies, tv series, video games, now internet). I've learned way way more english from watching movies and surfing the internet than during high-school.
Tieno said:
this is very true, and very different from say japanese. while legal language in the us is (intentionally?) impenetrable, a lot of things that use kanji anyway are very straightforward and easy to understand.
or so I used to think. I had two weeks of training in finance stuff, and was completely lost.
cyclonekruse
Member
To those criticizing English as the global language, how many of those criticisms would not apply to any potential global language? I only saw a few that would be problems exclusive to English.
Tyrannical
Banned
shpankey said:
My god, you are right. Once I got started I had no problem reading straight through it.
English is already the most spoken in the world. It's the simplest (from my experience), I grew up on both English and Arabic (my Arabic is not good btw). I took German in HS and talking French now in college. I know basic Japanese from my Japanese roommate.
English is the simplest followed by German. French is a beautiful language and that's why I'm focusing on it to be my 3rd language and I'm going to France this summer with some friends. My roommate tells me Japanese is useless outside of Japan because it's the only country that uses it. English is already the universal language and you can use it in EVERY country (accents will always be there).
English is the simplest followed by German. French is a beautiful language and that's why I'm focusing on it to be my 3rd language and I'm going to France this summer with some friends. My roommate tells me Japanese is useless outside of Japan because it's the only country that uses it. English is already the universal language and you can use it in EVERY country (accents will always be there).
James Power
Banned
Which (non-dead) language is considered to be the most precise?
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
Kabouter said:
Dutch swear words are REALLY offensive.
why would you call someone a cancer victim, it's just so mean!
The main difficulty with English is the vast vocabulary
Due to historical reasons there are several different sets of vocabulary, there is the original Germanic based vocabulary, then the French influence from the Norman invasion, then all the scientific vocabulary from Latin and Greek(though this is more universal amongst European languages in general. Add on top of this all the loanwords from immigrants/countries that were ruled by one of the English speaking powers, and it's a mess.
English isn't hard to learn to the point of carrying on a conversation, due to small grammatical ruleset. But learning the language to where you understand every word used by a native speaker without asking for clarification and to where you can recognize all the various exceptions to the grammar rules caused by the mutated nature of the English language can take a lifetime.
So, it's easy to learn English to the point of making yourself understood, even if you sound a little bit funny and have to ask for clarification on some words you don't know.
Due to historical reasons there are several different sets of vocabulary, there is the original Germanic based vocabulary, then the French influence from the Norman invasion, then all the scientific vocabulary from Latin and Greek(though this is more universal amongst European languages in general. Add on top of this all the loanwords from immigrants/countries that were ruled by one of the English speaking powers, and it's a mess.
English isn't hard to learn to the point of carrying on a conversation, due to small grammatical ruleset. But learning the language to where you understand every word used by a native speaker without asking for clarification and to where you can recognize all the various exceptions to the grammar rules caused by the mutated nature of the English language can take a lifetime.
So, it's easy to learn English to the point of making yourself understood, even if you sound a little bit funny and have to ask for clarification on some words you don't know.
Alx
Member
James Power said:
That would be German. It used to be "the language of science" because you can combine words to create new ones with hard logic and remain clear and understandable (although you can get words as long as a sentence
).French used to be "the language of diplomacy" because it's full of subtleties, because of the vocabulary and the many different ways you can build a sentence.
English is "the language of traders", because it's efficient and the basics are easy to learn.
All languages have their advantages and shortcomings. I don't mind having english as the main international language, but it's not the best language for everything.
donkey show
Member
PIPE PLZbjork said:
Hmm english...
1. Idiomatic weirdness.
Many common verbs used in phrases easily decoded by the native speaker but whose meaning can't be easily discerned from the meaning of the constituent words.
2. Nightmarish orthography.
For various reasons, (borrowed words never respelled, pronunciation changes never reflected in writing, more vowel sounds than letters in latin alphabet) english spelling is extremely incosistent.
The 'ough' in the words below are all said differently and you could probably come up with more.
Though
Through
Thorough
Rough
Cough
In contrast, spanish has a consistent orthography. Probably one of the most consistent in common use. If you know spanish but encounter an unfamilar word while reading, your chance of correctly saying it from its written representation is very high.
3. Some common english sounds are somewhat uncommon in many other languages.
The two different sounds represented by 'th' (one in thing, another in those) are not common in many widely spoken languages, even those more closely related to English such as German (thing: Dinge, with: mit). In fact, even some dialects of enlgish and english derived languages don't have it (replaced by 'd' or 't').
However in standard english it appears in a disconcerting number of very common words: eg the, that, those, them, with, theirs, thank, three, sixths.
There are other sounds that give problems depending on what the leaners native tongue. Some might find 'l' and 'r' difficult to differentiate or 'b' and 'v'.
4. Profusion of homophones.
There are tons of english words that sound the same (sometimes are written differently) but mean different things. Makes it great for puns and double-entendres but can certainly caause unintended confusion, even among native speakers.
5. Grammar.
The grammatical features of the english language aren't as numerous as some other languages (minimal grammatical gender, words don't inflect as much) but there are a singificant number of special cases and forms that you just have to know. For example, negation is strange compared to many other languags. The common modern english way is to say 'I do not dance', (introducing another verb) rather than the equivalent of 'I dance not' or 'I not dance' common in many other languages (the negator simply precedes or follows the verb).
I'd say the difficulty of learning english depends on the language you're coming from and maybe how many languages you've learned previously. Nonetheless, I think the argument is mostly moot. The language of the most dominant nation tends to be the most widely used. There was a time when it was Greek, Latin or French.
And this is the advantage of english, it was the language of the British empire (Britain itself is just a few islands like Japan). As a result it was already far flung and dispersed spoken from the Americas through Africa and Asia.
1. Idiomatic weirdness.
Many common verbs used in phrases easily decoded by the native speaker but whose meaning can't be easily discerned from the meaning of the constituent words.
2. Nightmarish orthography.
For various reasons, (borrowed words never respelled, pronunciation changes never reflected in writing, more vowel sounds than letters in latin alphabet) english spelling is extremely incosistent.
The 'ough' in the words below are all said differently and you could probably come up with more.
Though
Through
Thorough
Rough
Cough
In contrast, spanish has a consistent orthography. Probably one of the most consistent in common use. If you know spanish but encounter an unfamilar word while reading, your chance of correctly saying it from its written representation is very high.
3. Some common english sounds are somewhat uncommon in many other languages.
The two different sounds represented by 'th' (one in thing, another in those) are not common in many widely spoken languages, even those more closely related to English such as German (thing: Dinge, with: mit). In fact, even some dialects of enlgish and english derived languages don't have it (replaced by 'd' or 't').
However in standard english it appears in a disconcerting number of very common words: eg the, that, those, them, with, theirs, thank, three, sixths.
There are other sounds that give problems depending on what the leaners native tongue. Some might find 'l' and 'r' difficult to differentiate or 'b' and 'v'.
4. Profusion of homophones.
There are tons of english words that sound the same (sometimes are written differently) but mean different things. Makes it great for puns and double-entendres but can certainly caause unintended confusion, even among native speakers.
5. Grammar.
The grammatical features of the english language aren't as numerous as some other languages (minimal grammatical gender, words don't inflect as much) but there are a singificant number of special cases and forms that you just have to know. For example, negation is strange compared to many other languags. The common modern english way is to say 'I do not dance', (introducing another verb) rather than the equivalent of 'I dance not' or 'I not dance' common in many other languages (the negator simply precedes or follows the verb).
I'd say the difficulty of learning english depends on the language you're coming from and maybe how many languages you've learned previously. Nonetheless, I think the argument is mostly moot. The language of the most dominant nation tends to be the most widely used. There was a time when it was Greek, Latin or French.
And this is the advantage of english, it was the language of the British empire (Britain itself is just a few islands like Japan). As a result it was already far flung and dispersed spoken from the Americas through Africa and Asia.
batbeg said:
Maybe not Klingon per se, but an artificially created language would be a good one. You can enforce the things that naturally evolving languages fail to develop - simple and regular grammar, phonetic spelling and the suchlike - and build the vocabulary for clarity and accuracy.
Alx
Member
It's been tried over and over (volapück, esperanto, ...) but it never worked. A language needs a culture to survive, a background, history. You can't just make one up and hope that everybody will learn it when it's not linked to a specific country/population.
Actually artificial languages like Klingon or Elvish kind of subsist (in a very small community, and maybe not for long) because people like Klingons and Elves, even if they're fictionnal, and can relate to them when learning the language. But people don't learn Esperanto to be able to visit "Esperantoland" or listen to "Esperantish" music.
Actually artificial languages like Klingon or Elvish kind of subsist (in a very small community, and maybe not for long) because people like Klingons and Elves, even if they're fictionnal, and can relate to them when learning the language. But people don't learn Esperanto to be able to visit "Esperantoland" or listen to "Esperantish" music.
Holy Order Sol
Member
Mada Mada Dane said:
.
TheRipDizz
Banned
He said as long as the first and last letters are in place. A word spelled in reverse would not usually qualify. Try againiapetus said:
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