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As a longtime skeptic of 2D Sonic, I finally "get it" with Sonic Mania

D

dlauv

Member
I don't know how someone thinks they've uncovered the secret core flaw, the Achilles heel, in gameplay that's been loved by millions for 20+ years, analyzed for 20+ years, and critically favored for 20+ years. And that secret core flaw is the initial walk speed being "too slow" of all things alongside everything that evidently implies.

I don't play 2D Mario for reasons, but I'm not about to pretend everyone else has been suckered into thinking it's good. That's absurd and condescending. The 2D games just aren't to my tastes presently.
 
G

gafneo

Banned
I think the 32-bit art is what makes this stand out so much. Not since Symphony of The Night have I stared at graphics with such awe. That and there is no lock on button that likes to trick you into jumping off cliffs. The boosting was OK in 3D games, but I would rather go that fast if I was in Super Sonic mode.
 
C

Camjo-Z

Member
bomma_man said:
Christ this is the most boring argument ever. It's obvious what they meant.
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At this point there are enough people seriously trying to argue that a series of critically acclaimed games enjoyed by millions were actually objectively bad the entire time that it's hard to be sure.
 
goldenpp72

goldenpp72

Member
javac said:
Maybe the game should explain and telegraph some of its inane rules first.
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It's really just more of a feeling kind of game. Sonic to me is like a game of pool, you have the people who just hit the ball and pray for a result, and then you have the people who think about the shot, predict the shot, and nail the shot. That sensation of talent and execution is very similar to how I feel often in Sonic mania. Being able to skillfully predict my jump perfectly in a narrow space while calculating momentum is very enthralling. It's a mix of that, some thrills, and some fun if basic platforming all mixed into a flavor I enjoy.

It's definitely not for everyone of course, and it's a shame when people can't 'get it' but at least you've tried.
 
S

Sami+

Member
Professor Beef said:
Not only that, but people parrot the "GOTTA GO FAST" line as if that's something that was in the marketing for the games, which it never fucking was. There's not a clearer example of revisionist history than that.
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Is it really so unfair to think that the four Japanese developed Sonic games from 1991-1994 aren't all about going fast when the American localization 4Kids theme song to a 2003 anime told me otherwise??

Checkmate, Sonic fans.
 
J

jman2050

Member
javac said:
Maybe the game should explain and telegraph some of its inane rules first.
Click to expand...

Sonic is one of the most straightforward and simple platformers ever made. There's nothing to explain, everything about it becomes self-evident with just a bare token amount of time investment.
 
OmegaDL50

OmegaDL50

Member
ckaneo said:
This I will give you. There is an assumption you've played the games before so I can see newcomers not knowing about the obvious series staples
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That is why trial and error exists though.

I don't expect any one new at a game, generally platformers which usually don't have tutorials and their learning to play them is built into their design to absolutely know what to do without putting some time into and getting a grasp on how the mechanics work.

Many other classic platformers don't telegraph or explain things to any first time player. It was by their nature to just experiment and try things and learn by experience.

Just as it was with SMB or so this hasn't changed with the 2D Sonic platformers either, and because Sonic Mana continues with the trend. It is a not a consequence of it being a bad gameplay design either, but sticking to a proven formula that just has always been.
 
B

brad-t

Member
javac said:
Maybe the game should explain and telegraph some of its inane rules first.
Click to expand...

I haven't really played classic Sonic before but it's not that hard to grasp — I think Neiteio's original post describes my experience exactly (although I've only cleared four zones so far). It certainl has a unique playstyle to it, but I see that as a boon. Plus as someone with a Breath of the Wild avatar, I'd expect you could appreciate a game that leaves you to our own devices and lets you figure things out through experimentation.
 
goldenpp72

goldenpp72

Member
brad-t said:
I haven't really played classic Sonic before but it's not that hard to grasp — I think Neiteio's original post describes my experience exactly (although I've only cleared four zones so far). It certainl has a unique playstyle to it, but I see that as a boon. Plus as someone with a Breath of the Wild avatar, I'd expect you could appreciate a game that leaves you to our own devices and lets you figure things out through experimentation.
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Or he just really liked the deep characterization of princess Zelda :eek:
 
S

SciencePilot

Member
Great OP. I agree with pretty much everything you said.

I did play Sonic a lot as a kid, but I don't think I really "got it" then. I was just a clueless kid stumbling through. Playing Mania now made me realize just how unique and well-crafted the series is.
 
F

Future

Member
I think the game design works pretty well. It's all a bit trial and error to see the various routes, and that is fine first time through. Often the goal is not continuous speed, but building speed and momentum in specific moments to propel yourself to desired areas to access secrets and routes

That's what is wrong with almost every 3D sonic (and also why they work in their own way). They are more of a continuous roller coaster that reaches Mach speed of minimal control besides a couple of branching paths here in there. I've never in a 3D sonic traveled to a location, and attempted to find a path to build enough speed to do anything. All I've ever done is just try to react quickly while traveling at super speed to get to an item or area.

This kind of works since roller coasters are fun, but it's not like what sonic used to be. Sonic mania delivers on the old design tropes, partly because it's not afraid of being slow like the old games so you can assess and plan a route, and partly because it actually has momentum and physics that are fun to play around with
 
J

javac

Member
brad-t said:
I haven't really played classic Sonic before but it's not that hard to grasp — I think Neiteio's original post describes my experience exactly (although I've only cleared four zones so far). It certainl has a unique playstyle to it, but I see that as a boon. Plus as someone with a Breath of the Wild avatar, I'd expect you could appreciate a game that leaves you to our own devices and lets you figure things out through experimentation.
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BOTW might just be one of my favourite games in quite some time, the openness of it is a big part of that. In BOTW however I feel vindicated for my troubles and I don't feel punished for making the wrong move, you are instead encouraged to explore, the generous save system helps. Many times I'll fluke my way through a shine, completing it by doing something from my own ingenuity. Sonic on the other hand imo punishes me for everything. I never feel good about finishing a level. It is true that you can go back and subsequent playthroughs will bear new fruit but when I'm being ricocheted from left to right and back again I don't feel as if I have much agency in my direction, almost akin to the mine-cart levels in donkey Kong. You press the jump button a second too early or a second too late and you've just missed a puzzle piece, similarly here if you hit a bumper it's often lights out for that other path you was eyeing.

Yes you learn these things as you play and yes I don't need every game to explain everything, exploring is cool but sonic feels at odds with these things. I play sonic slow, I like collecting everything and killing everyone, 20 years of Mario does that to you. That in and of itself is not a fault of Sonic, this isn't Mario so yes a lot of this is a case of old habits die hard but the game could be a little clearer. Most of these grievances are things that become understood after a session or two, some easily rectified with a simple Google search or two I would imagine but when say a bonus level presents itself above one checkpoint and not the other I don't know why, is it a lack of coins? I don't know. Or when I find the big ring that takes me to a 3D level in which I have to "catch a UFO", I assume the blue orbs make me faster, but when they turn yellow and I lose all of a sudden, are yellow ones bad? I'm too busy trying to catch the UFO to know! Next time I'll know, if I can find that stage again, something I found by happen-chance in the first place. Why does getting crushed kill me even when I have coins? How the hell do I control Tails reliably? Press jump and jump and hold up, and then mash up to ascend? It's flaky as hell. One of the bosses requires you to jump on blue missiles which then hit him...I think? Everything was too fast to discern where I even was which might be more of an indicator of my terrible eyesight, but it felt that way, but whenever I'd try to jump on or over a red missile I'd take a hit and lose coins.

It's all "feel" and things that I'd pick up over time, things that are easily learned after a fail or two, I plan to finish this game and I'm sure I'll come around quickly but first impressions are that the music is incredible, the style is amazing but there's something regarding gameplay that I find frustrating. I see potential and I see why people like the game and series, and hell the actual platforming feels good! So long as it isn't bouncing me about, nothing feels worse then feeling like you've been cheated a path because of some bullshit spring or jelly...thing that bounces you to a whole new area. I don't feel like I'm making progress at all, when I reach the end of a level I don't feel like I earned it at all, I just...kind of ended up there.

EDIT: I keep calling the rings coins, I just did it here too...
 
O

Opa-Pa

Member
The OP was very refreshing to read and to an extent, I feel the same. I've always enjoyed these games but there's always something that doesn't click with me and I think Mania finally made 2D Sonic completely click with me and I enjoyed pretty much every level.

But of course the "maybe Sonic was never good" crowd had to pop up. You guys lol.

Yeah good thing it feels nothing like Mario because it's not supposed to. Sonic is its own very specific brand of 2D platformer and comparing it to more traditional ones is pretty much meaningless, especially when making arguments of why it's supposedly bad.

The only thing you guys actually realize is that Sonic isn't for you, and that's fine.
 
T

The Xtortionist

Member
javac said:
snip
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Sonic takes a different mindset than other platformers. You shouldn't view missing a route as punishment. You can still finish the level and see lots of cool stuff - just not everything. That's what makes the levels so replayable. For the special stages, you cap speed at mach 3. At that point orbs just fill the meter to give you a score bonus. Collecting rings will increase your time limit.

Sonic doesn't like to be crushed. That's just his schtick. There are very few moments where you can get crushed with no warning. But whenever you see a possible crushing scenario, play very carefully.

For the Studiopolis Act 1 boss: you're correct that you have to attack the blue missiles. However, it's much safer to roll into them. When both jumping and rolling, Sonic is in an identical ball form - this means his attack potential is the same for both. Rolling is better than jumping in situations like this, so keep that in mind.

A good chunk of the gratification from finishing zones in Sonic comes from personal enjoyment. If you don't feel satisfied with the route used to finish a zone, then you'll need to go back and refine it. But again, on the surface there's no real positive or negative feedback for taking any route through the level. They all just provide a different experience.
 
A

Arc Christelle

Member
Weird that people come to odds with the Arcade Design of Classic 2D Sonic. After such a long history with Sonic Team I feel like they have a specific design style that you can see in all their game series ranging from both Classic and Modern Sonic, Burning Rangers, Nights Into Dreams, Billy Hatcher, and perhaps even Samba De Amigo and depending if you consider PROPE to be Sonic Team, Rodea The Sky Soldier. All these games have Arcade sensibilities that rewards player discovery through replays like Metal Slug or a Platinum Game title where you may not discover everything on your first try.

Like Vanquish.

But then again some people don't really enjoy any of those games, and I remember when so called fans of Nights and JSR had to come back to face with what the original games, they were so enruptured by nostalgia that they forgot how demanding those games were and even questioned their earlier enjoyment or if it's alright to change their opinion on it.
 
P

PKrockin

Member
I wonder if there's an overlap between those who prefer Mario World to SMB3/SMB1 and people who hate Sonic. People seem to be taking Sonic's slow acceleration as an inherent flaw, when precisely managing the character's speed and strategically deciding to take a scenario slow or fast based on the enemies and environment is the essence of what I find fun about the 2D Mario games. SMW didn't have as much lasting appeal for me once I'd discovered the secrets because Mario's ability to stop and turn on a dime made the game easy and shallow, in terms of controlling Mario. It can take a long time to master SMB1's or SMB3's physics, and even longer to master Sonic's because of the latter's chaotic levels filled with slopes that drastically alter your jumps, springs that bounce you onto various intertwining paths, and various level gimmicks.

I've grown up with the series, but I think I can understand first-time Sonic players' experiences as chaotic and confusing, especially when you're not experienced enough to do something like look at a half pipe or slope and know whether you can take it at your current speed. Shit happens fast and it's easy to get hit. It doesn't feel like you really have much control. But to me, having a character constrained by high inertia bouncing around dazzling levels and a killer soundtrack? It's like if pinball were actually fun for me.

People down on the game seem focused on it as a time attack game, but I never play it like that. I take a very casual approach to the game. I just have fun jumping around the levels, looking for secrets, trying to get onto upper paths by making crazy jumps, taking a platforming section as fast as possible, or just playing through an act "gracefully" without any awkward stops. Whatever I feel like at the moment. I feel like if you play the game in the kind of high strung, no-mistakes-allowed mindset I tend to take toward time attack/racing games, you'll just frustrate yourself until you really master the game. That's not to say everyone who didn't like the game is just uptight or whatever, but the marketing might be leading people into approaching the game with a counterproductive mindset?
 
J

javac

Member
The Xtortionist said:
Sonic takes a different mindset than other platformers. You shouldn't view missing a route as punishment. You can still finish the level and see lots of cool stuff - just not everything. That's what makes the levels so replayable. For the special stages, you cap speed at mach 3. At that point orbs just fill the meter to give you a score bonus. Collecting rings will increase your time limit.

Sonic doesn't like to be crushed. That's just his schtick. There are very few moments where you can get crushed with no warning. But whenever you see a possible crushing scenario, play very carefully.

For the Studiopolis Act 1 boss: you're correct that you have to attack the blue missiles. However, it's much safer to roll into them. When both jumping and rolling, Sonic is in an identical ball form - this means his attack potential is the same for both. Rolling is better than jumping in situations like this, so keep that in mind.

A good chunk of the gratification from finishing zones in Sonic comes from personal enjoyment. If you don't feel satisfied with the route used to finish a zone, then you'll need to go back and refine it. But again, on the surface there's no real positive or negative feedback for taking any route through the level. They all just provide a different experience.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for the detailed reply, I appreciate it. I hope people realise that I truly want to and believe that I will end up liking this game, there's lot to like, it's just off to a slow and rocky start, playing a bunch of bad splatoon 2 matches before booting up Sonic Mania for the first time probably didn't leave me in the best mood going in so I'll try again when I'm feeling less grouchy!
 
F

flak57

Member
The Wart said:
The difference is that in Mario you are always in control. Speed is a strategic choice you make. In Sonic, speed is something the level does to you, and you are moving too fast and the screen is too zoomed in for the player have much of any idea of what is going on. It's an interesting design philosophy, and as someone in another thread brought up, it has a lot in common with pinball.
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That's a bit baffling. If you're moving too fast, slow down. You can adjust your speed. You can find an even pace where you've got a shot at handling the obstacles. For some reason "slow down to somewhere below cranking the d-pad" means "go slow as all fuck this is horrible" based on the other thread. It's a sliding scale, if you go full speed all the time in any Mario game you'll die too.

The Wart said:
Also, Mario is perfectly mobile and capable even starting from a dead stop. Sonic is often awkward an unwieldy, especially when you get stuck on a slope. The spin dash is a hack to get around this, but it's a weird mechanic that grinds the action to a literal halt before catapulting you into speeds that are basically impossible to control. It feels like a band-aid over a design flaw.
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Mario isn't perfectly mobile. In DKC (SNES) you are, since there's no momentum in the movement, you can turn on a dime on ground or in the air instantly at full speed. There's different levels of momentum in different games, awkward and unwieldy is up to the player. Sonic being a weapon when he jumps is a factor too.

Anyway, you can adjust your spin dash speed and make jumps with it, it's not that hard to control.

I actually just tested it out on the flat part at the start of emerald hill. From a stand still and jumping right away I can land about 3/4 of a screen width away from where I started the dash (holding the d-pad in the opposite direction right after I dash and jump).

I can make the actual jump even shorter by waiting a bit to jump while I slow down by holding the opposite direction after the dash. Or by jumping on an incline.

Edit: I had a response here for Sonic's spindash being some kind of hack to bandaid Sonic's flaws, but I'm editing it out and just settling on being baffled.
 
I

iamaustrian

Member
congratulations

I'm trying it since mega drive times again and again and I have several copies of several sonic games but I still don't get it.
It still seems to me that the whole "fame" built around sonic games is purely about it's speed/fast scrolling (blast processing).
floaty controls and lackluster level design.

in the end Zool ist the better Sonic game
 
SonicMegaDrive

SonicMegaDrive

Member
iamaustrian said:
congratulations

I'm trying it since mega drive times again and again and I have several copies of several sonic games but I still don't get it.
It still seems to me that the whole "fame" built around sonic games is purely about it's speed/fast scrolling (blast processing).
floaty controls and lackluster level design.

in the end Zool ist the better Sonic game
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Zool was never good. Bubsy is better. And Bubsy sucks.
 
T

The Strokes

Banned
jon bones said:
I feel the exact opposite - Mania confirmed what I always suspected: Sonic games just aren't very good.

As a kid I was more forgiving, but they just feel... off to play. Always have.

Playing the Rayman Legends demo or a Mario game really makes it glaring, too.
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Rayman Legends is more what people think Sonic is than anything else.

And I don't know how a game like that is comparable to Sonic or Mario in which exploring is a key part of the experience, albeit in different ways.
 
N

nynt9

Member
One part of sonic level design that puts me off from exploration is that how there isn't a lot that's visually very unique in a level, and sometimes it's hard to trace how you got somewhere. And many times once you reach a part you can't go back. So to explore you need to restart the level, and that ends up being time consuming. Also with how many objects in the world kind of automatically push you in some direction if you can't react, that ends up being a waste as well. I still think the way the levels are designed is incongruous with how the game plays for the most part, but Mania is definitely the one that reconciled that the best.
 
S

Shadio

Member
I wonder if people who want a more exploration or collection based experience would appreciate Sonic CD more.

There isn't as much of a focus on speed, every level allows full backtracking from any point, and there are things to be found within each level in order to reach the best ending. Aside from Wacky Workbench, you can rush through the levels just as easily as you could any other Sonic game if you don't want to spend time looking around.

Even among fans of the other classics, it seems to be loved by just as many people who hate it. But it's so different from Mania and the other four that maybe it'd be a good starting point.
 
P

PantsuJo

Member
RRockman said:
No, speed is still a large part of Sonic, it's just that people assumed that was the WHOLE IDEA, rather than it being a larger part of the equation that makes up a great platformer.
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Totally agree.

Also, incredible year: 2D Sonic, Crash, Wipeout... guys, the 90s are back, full-force.

Finally.
 
Phoenix RISING

Phoenix RISING

Banned
dlauv said:
I don't know how someone thinks they've uncovered the secret core flaw, the Achilles heel, in gameplay that's been loved by millions for 20+ years, analyzed for 20+ years, and critically favored for 20+ years. And that secret core flaw is the initial walk speed being "too slow" of all things alongside everything that evidently implies.

I don't play 2D Mario for reasons, but I'm not about to pretend everyone else has been suckered into thinking it's good. That's absurd and condescending. The 2D games just aren't to my tastes presently.
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I'm a big Sonic fan but his startup speed always annoyed me.

In the comics and cartoons he can instantly 0-60. Max speed @ speed of sound.

This is why I loved Sonic CD for the figure 8 peelout. This is why I love "modern sonic" because of how he can boost through levels seemingly breaking the sound barrier.

But yeah, getting Sonic up to...speed...was always unfun. Mario gained momentum faster in 2D.
 
G

Glowsquid

Member
Toxi said:
On a side note, I also feel like there is very little critical discussion about 2D Mario levels besides 1-1. What makes a good Mario level? What makes a bad one? Nobody fucking talks about it, even when we do for other 2D platformers like Donkey Kong Country or Sonic or Mega Man.
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In that respect, the online Super Mario Maker comics are precious insight in the mind of a Mario level designer.
 
L

LegendofLex

Member
PKrockin said:
I wonder if there's an overlap between those who prefer Mario World to SMB3/SMB1 and people who hate Sonic.
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You're gonna make this point on the basis of the physics and not on the basis of SMB/SMB3's levels being playable only once per playthrough, while SMW's give you unlimited opportunity to experiment and explore and mine secrets?

If you missed a secret in SMB/SMB3, you were SOL. In SMW and future Mario games, that's not even a factor in the game's challenge level. The Mario games from SMW on discard their arcade sensibilities.
 
N

NotLiquid

Member
Phoenix RISING said:
I'm a big Sonic fan but his startup speed always annoyed me.

In the comics and cartoons he can instantly 0-60. Max speed @ speed of sound.

This is why I loved Sonic CD for the figure 8 peelout. This is why I love "modern sonic" because of how he can boost through levels seemingly breaking the sound barrier.

But yeah, getting Sonic up to...speed...was always unfun. Mario gained momentum faster in 2D.
Click to expand...

Getting Sonic to speed was always the fun part for me because it was contingent on the level design and your ability to roll. You have to properly build the momentum thats going to propel you through obstacles requiring your speed. Peel-out is just a Spindash without the roll.

The good thing about the classics wasn't just how they made speed skill-based but how they had to pace themselves. Its nice to go fast but the Boost-era games made me numb to the idea of going fast cause there was no skill to it and the need to always go fast made the impact of it lose its luster quickly.
 
S

Synth

Member
goldenpp72 said:
While Crash never became as iconic, the games typically sold quite similarly if not better when not factoring bundles. Sonic was a big deal from 1 to 2 but was largely bundled with systems
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Sonic was so heavily bundled, because like the original Super Mario Bros (and later Halo CE and Wii Sports) it was literally selling the console single-handedly. Sonic would have been the first game the vast majority of people at the time would have bought for the Genesis had it not been bundled. Crash wasn't that for PlayStation, and a large amount of people purchasing the console would have wanted WipEout, Ridge Racer or Tekken instead.

goldenpp72 said:
If you ask people who Sonic is, they probably know, but if you ask gamers about actually wanting to play a series, Sonic isn't particularly bigger than Crash in that sense. More iconic, but comparably relevant in the sales department.
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I don't think you can really claim this. The Crash remaster is doing great, but Crash has been doing far worse, and his relevance had been far more questionable than Sonic's over the last two decades. Basically, Crash and Sonic had both been receiving questionable 3D output over the years, but even Sonic 06 didn't ghost Sonic to anywhere near the level that some mediocre Activision Crash games did... because Sonic's name has far more pull even when attached to awful games. A 3D Sonic received like Mania would probably do some ridiculous numbers.
 
J

justjustin

Member
I experienced the same as OP, except instead of Mania it was with Sonic 3 after reading all the recent hype.

It definitely has to do with my changing taste over time. When I was a kid, I only played games that encouraged memorization, repetition, and basically reverse engineering all the little details-- essentially aiming to know everything and do everything right. I tried Sonic multiple times when I was a kid, and I was just not having it.

But now I'm big into open world games, and embracing unpredictability. That's just more immersive and fun for me now. So going back to Sonic recently, after probably 10+ years, was a totally different experience for me. The fact that I don't need to know where the fuck I'm going in a level feels liberating and exhilarating. I like reacting on-the-spot, and solving mini-puzzles to reach the next destination instead of memorization-based platforming, or needing pixel-perfect accuracy.

Based on OPs and others' experiences, it sounds like Mania is on point, and I'm gonna have to get it now.
 
J

jyoung188

Member
I agree 100% OP. This is the first Sonic game I've finished and I finally clicked after 20+ years of not understanding the series' appeal at all.

After completing it I immediately went to my 3ds and downloaded Sonic 1 3D and finally made it past green hill zone lol.

What are the other must plays in the series?
 
V

VanWinkle

Member
Your revelations/realizations that led to your love of this game mirror mine very closely.

When I was a kid I loved Sonic. I remember playing it almost as much as Mario games. However, when I got older there was a pretty long gap between playing Sonic games and then I started wondering why I ever loved them. I tried almost every new Mario that has released in the last 15 or so years and just did not like them (of course, it didn't help that Sonic Team just didn't know how to make a good Sonic game anymore). And even when I tried the old games again, I no longer understood the proper way to play the game and thus didn't enjoy it at all.

People here helped me understand the things you said. Mostly about the paths and the speed. I thought to myself, okay, just relax and play through it. You're not going to see everything in each playthrough.

And then, suddenly. it clicked. I started loving it.
 
G

GenG3000

Member
jyoung188 said:
I agree 100% OP. This is the first Sonic game I've finished and I finally clicked after 20+ years of not understanding the series' appeal at all.

After completing it I immediately went to my 3ds and downloaded Sonic 1 3D and finally made it past green hill zone lol.

What are the other must plays in the series?
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Play Sonic 2, 3 and Knuckles.
 
cireza

cireza

Member
I simply don't understand why it is so difficult for people to play and enjoy those games.

OP looks like he is playing the game in a way that suits him, exploring, replaying stages, going fast when he wants...

Yes, this is a good way to play 2D Sonic games. Does not look like rocket science to me.

For those who enjoyed Sonic Mania, you should try Sonic CD. The game is available on Xbox One, is widescreen, ported by the same developer, great game overall.
 
R

Ramune

Member
Phoenix RISING said:
I'm a big Sonic fan but his startup speed always annoyed me.

In the comics and cartoons he can instantly 0-60. Max speed @ speed of sound.

This is why I loved Sonic CD for the figure 8 peelout. This is why I love "modern sonic" because of how he can boost through levels seemingly breaking the sound barrier.

But yeah, getting Sonic up to...speed...was always unfun. Mario gained momentum faster in 2D.
Click to expand...

Ha, I used to feel this way when I was younger. From Sonic 2 on up, I would spin dash and if the ceiling was low enough, I would take off and bump against it. Upon landing I'm running at near top speed.

Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 , you could spin dash and release and then hit the spin button briefly to uncurl and maintain speed while running.

Always wanted to do a Sonic Tornado in a game too, if anyone remembers that move from the two cartoons. Hell in one episode of AoSTH, he could even pick it up the base of the tornado and toss it! XD
 
S

Sami+

Member
justjustin said:
I experienced the same as OP, except instead of Mania it was with Sonic 3 after reading all the recent hype.

It definitely has to do with my changing taste over time. When I was a kid, I only played games that encouraged memorization, repetition, and basically reverse engineering all the little details-- essentially aiming to know everything and do everything right. I tried Sonic multiple times when I was a kid, and I was just not having it.

But now I'm big into open world games, and embracing unpredictability. That's just more immersive and fun for me now. So going back to Sonic recently, after probably 10+ years, was a totally different experience for me. The fact that I don't need to know where the fuck I'm going in a level feels liberating and exhilarating. I like reacting on-the-spot, and solving mini-puzzles to reach the next destination instead of memorization-based platforming, or needing pixel-perfect accuracy.

Based on OPs and others' experiences, it sounds like Mania is on point, and I'm gonna have to get it now.
Click to expand...

jyoung188 said:
I agree 100% OP. This is the first Sonic game I've finished and I finally clicked after 20+ years of not understanding the series' appeal at all.

After completing it I immediately went to my 3ds and downloaded Sonic 1 3D and finally made it past green hill zone lol.

What are the other must plays in the series?
Click to expand...

VanWinkle said:
Your revelations/realizations that led to your love of this game mirror mine very closely.

When I was a kid I loved Sonic. I remember playing it almost as much as Mario games. However, when I got older there was a pretty long gap between playing Sonic games and then I started wondering why I ever loved them. I tried almost every new Mario that has released in the last 15 or so years and just did not like them (of course, it didn't help that Sonic Team just didn't know how to make a good Sonic game anymore). And even when I tried the old games again, I no longer understood the proper way to play the game and thus didn't enjoy it at all.

People here helped me understand the things you said. Mostly about the paths and the speed. I thought to myself, okay, just relax and play through it. You're not going to see everything in each playthrough.

And then, suddenly. it clicked. I started loving it.
Click to expand...

I just want to say reading these three posts in succession fills me with joy.

I got my start on internet forums and becoming a part of the online community all the way back on the GameFAQs forum for Sonic 06 before it came out, around late 04 or early 05. I was 9 years old at the time so in that sense it was probably inevitable I'd be a Sonic weirdo, haha. Over time, my passion for what the series was and fondness for all the games started to wane (alongside the "reviewers hate Sonic" persecution complex that a lot of fans unfortunately still have, but I understand the fanbase skews younger) and morph into an appreciation of the absolutely genius design and marketing that made Sonic into the icon he was in the 90's. When I was starting to care less about Sonic, hot off the heels of the disappointing Lost World and when Colors and Generations' novelty of being not horrible had worn off, replaying Sonic CD and Sonic 3 Complete was an eye opening experience.

Of course, since I'm just passionate about the series overall due to it being something of a gateway to the internet for me, whenever I did try to talk to my buddies about how good those classic games were and how they should give them a shot, I'd usually be met with a chuckle and a "don't worry, I know, I played Sonic Heroes as a kid and I liked it back then too". And I get that! Sonic has suuuuuucked for so so so long, and it's completely reasonable to question or doubt just how good the original games were for that reason. Hell, every mediocre to decent game in the past decade has marketed itself as a "return to Sonic's roots", so I wouldn't blame anyone at all for believing that those roots must have rotted a bit over the years if this is the best we could get. Even Generations, the game that fans always use as the first defense for Sonic's recent career, completely misunderstands what made Classic Sonic work and ends up delivering an entirely different (still enjoyable) game in the process.

tl;dr, I'm thankful for Sonic Mania not just because it's the great game I've been wanting for years, but because it serves as an excellent reminder to everyone of the hard work and dedication that went into perfecting that formula at the SEGA Technical Institute and Sonic Team back in the early to mid 90's. When chief game designer of the original trilogy Hirokazu Yasuhara is tweeting about the Mania team has "raised Sonic to the next level"... you know something went right. :)
 
R

rekameohs

Banned
jyoung188 said:
I agree 100% OP. This is the first Sonic game I've finished and I finally clicked after 20+ years of not understanding the series' appeal at all.

After completing it I immediately went to my 3ds and downloaded Sonic 1 3D and finally made it past green hill zone lol.

What are the other must plays in the series?
Click to expand...
Sonic 1 is easily the weak one of the "Classics". 2, 3 and Knuckles (and now Mania) are the ones that really refined the formula. 3 and Knuckles is a little hard to come by these days, probably due to the whole Michael Jackson OST issue, so it's not really on official modern systems, so I think you'd need one of those old Genesis collections or the Wii VC for that.
 
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