It's only 720 right now because Volcanion is not officially out yet. Not until summer 2016 anyway.

Also if you're counting Zygarde's lesser forms like the dog one it'll probably be over 721.

Raichu goat!!!

Pikachu is overrated!

Bladenic said:

I dislike the extreme hate Grass type has gotten from GameFreak compared to its starting brethren Water and especially Fire. Hate when developers show blatant favoritism toward a certain thing in their game.

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yea i agree with this. its bs that charizard got 2 megas while the other 2 got only one, and blaziken got his mega before the other 2 in his gen too. starters should get equal amount of love, and you shouldn't design just one to be the "best" one, you should try your hardest for all 3.

lupinko said:

Also if you're counting Zygarde's lesser forms like the dog one it'll probably be over 721.

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if they don't get their own dex number than I wouldn't count it imo.

Looking forward to how this thread progresses. I will subscribe to your news letter!

Flying Type- Another common Type, and one that along with Bug and Normal Pokemon, is a Type players tend to encounter early on in each adventure. Flying isn't so much of an element as it is a category, although it can be seen as analogous to the "Wind Element" seen in many RPGs. It's rumored due to MissingNo that at some point Flying Pokemon were going to be simply known as Bird Pokemon, which makes you wonder what Types Pokemon like Zubat and co. would've been. Would they have done what they did with Grass, and just call anything with wings a "Bird" Pokemon? Anyway, as the names suggest, Flying Pokemon are creatures that fly, but not all Pokemon that can fly are Flying Pokemon, and not all Flying Pokemon can fly. Flying Pokemon tend to be mainly birds, bugs, and dragons, but include a few odder members like a sentient balloon and cloud-riding genies that perhaps fit more into the idea of a "Wind Element". Until one of those cloud-riding genies appeared, Flying was never seen on its own. And until Noibat and Noivern, it was also always the secondary Type. I've never figured out why this was. Some people think that "Flying" suggests the idea that a Pokemon is constantly flying, and thus they'd need to be a second Type if they ever landed. Thus, Tornadus was the first to be a creature that presumably was always airborne. But then why is Noibat the first primary Flying Pokemon? Who knows. Anyway, thanks to Hawlucha, Flying like Water has now been paired with every Type at least once, offering a lot of choices. Flying Pokemon tend to be used by pretty much every player too since having Fly makes the game progress far more smoothly, so having options is nice.

Bug Type- Bug Pokemon might not seem important, but one could say they're the ones to thank for Pokemon---it was the bug fights that inspired Tajiri, after all. Despite their importance behind the scenes, Bug Pokemon for the longest time played second banana, usually distributed at the beginning at the game and ending up as horrifically weak Pokemon that seemed to exist as merely a way to teach players the basics of evolution. There were other, stronger Bug Pokemon introduced, but overall the Type was seen as less than impressive even despite the fact it seems like Game Freak wanted to set it up as the unexpected equalizer to Psychic, but then screwed that idea up. Generation V turned things around by ditching the usual caterpillar-cocoon-butterfly archetype in favor of more impressive Bug Pokemon, but then Generation VI brought that rights back, and to add injury to insult, made the Spewpa line the only Bug-type Pokemon introduced in Generation VI. Alas, they got some cool Mega Pokemon though. Like Flying, Bug is less of an element, and more of a category, but within that category there's a fair amount of variety. Bug Pokemon aren't only the "true bugs", but includes arachnids, arthropods, and crustaceans. But overall, Bug Pokemon tend to stray towards simplicity over flair, and I think they've garnered an underdog following of sorts.

Fighting Type- My favorite Type, Fighting is all about fighting, even though all Pokemon fight, Fighting types are implied to love to fight even without a Trainer's intervention. Fighting Pokemon are almost all bipedal, and most of them are human shape, and most Fighting Pokemon tends to represent a specific form of combat and serves as an anthropomorphic representation of that concept. People tend to claim Fighting-type Pokemon are naturally good, claiming this is why they oppose Dark Pokemon, but this isn't true if you look at the Fighting-type before Pokemon like Lucario and the Sword Horses came about. Many of the early Fighting Pokemon weren't portrayed as particularly nice, and seemed to have somewhat of a "heel" appearance in being pretty brutal. In recent years, it does seem Fighting Pokemon have worked on their image to appear more noble and honorable, but we've still got dudes like Croagunk and Scraggy running around, and for that I'm thankful. Fighting Pokemon aren't particularly rare, but aren't particularly common---they usually tend to pop up near the beginning of the game, but also around the end as well, and are pretty balanced party members in any situation.

Psychic Type- While Fighting Pokemon favor brains, Psychic Pokemon favor brawn. An interesting note is that while most Types use direct translations more or less of the original Japanese name, Psychic was originally called "Esper". They're basically interchangeable more or less, but Esper sounds more inclusive than Psychic does. Esper is a term that originated in an old short story, but I imagine given the time and location of Pokemon's origin its use in Akira probably influenced Game Freak. Before you bring up Final Fantasy VI, Esper was a dub-name in that and they were "Genju" in Japan. In Generation 1, Psychic Pokemon absolutely dominated. This seemed to be almost accidental on Game Freak's part, as Bug Pokemon seemed to be set up as counters, but Game Freak forgot to make Bug-type moves. And there's the debated issue about the Ghost-type, which Psychic was immune to in Generation 1, despite multiple sources like guides and the show saying otherwise. It wouldn't have mattered, though, as the Ghost Pokemon were all part-Poison, and the only Ghost-type move that applied Type Weaknesses in Generation 1 was Lick as Night Shade was a fixed-amount attack. Thankfully, later Generations fixed this with the addition of Dark and Steel Pokemon, switching Ghost to being good against Psychic, and better Bug-type Pokemon and attacks. Psychic is an extremely diverse set of Pokemon, the only common element being the control of psychic abilities, and includes animals with psychic powers, humanoid creatures, and inanimate objects. While Dragon is the big thing for Legendary Pokemon now, Psychic used to be the Type Game Freak put on every Legendary, even if it didn't make much sense like with Lugia who seems more like it should be Water/Flying. Even now, Psychic is still the most common Legendary Type. Like Fighting Pokemon, Psychic Pokemon tend to both work as early game Pokemon, as well as end game Pokemon, and also are easy to fit into every team.

Poison Type- Nowadays, Poison-type Pokemon seem to be hated by Game Freak. We've yet to have a full Poison-type Legendary. But back in Generation 1, they were a very common type, 33 of them introduced, so it's surprising how few we get now despite their being plenty of real-world creatures with poisonous capabilities to draw from. Poison Pokemon fall into two groups---animals and plants that produce natural poisons, and monsters born from pollution. That's a pretty interesting dichotomy where you have completely natural creatures grouped alongside abominations of nature, and from a gameplay perspective a snake bite and a massive environmental disaster are one and the same. Poison-types tend to be grouped alongside Grass and Bug Pokemon, and most of the other "natural" Types, and in fact, alongside Fairy, Poison has the most unused Dual Type combinations having only paired with 10 of the 18 types. Poison got a bit of a boost, in a roundabout way, thanks to being strong against the new Fairy-type, but actual Poison-type Pokemon are seen as less desirable overall. It didn't help that Gen VI only introduced two Poison-type Pokemon, belonging to the same line, that only Y Players can catch. Fittingly, they're often used by lowlifes of the Pokemon world, and most of the non-Grass Poison-type Pokemon tend to have bad attitudes as well.

Ice Type- Like Poison, Ice-type Pokemon also have a representation for being weak and underutilized. Ice-type attacks, such as Ice Beam, are very popular for countering Dragon Pokemon, but as many Water Pokemon can pick up Ice-type attacks, actual Ice Pokemon are ignored due to their large amount of weaknesses. Ice Pokemon were very sparse in Kanto---and almost exclusively paired alongside the Water-type---and later Generations didn't help it, even Sinnoh which took place in the coldest Region left them out oddly enough. Ice Pokemon are based off creatures that exist in wintry environments, but also includes quite a few who represent the actual element of ice itself, thus feeling more "elemental" and "magical" than the more down-to-earth Water Type. Game Freak seems to have trouble thinking of clever Ice Pokemon since it's an element that's pretty pegged down to a certain expectation, so that's likely the reason we have so few of them, although perhaps they were always intended to be rare by design? As the original counter of Dragons, who themselves were once rare, Game Freak may have wanted them to be sparse, but with the rapid amount of Dragon Pokemon introduced, that no longer applies as we have more Dragon Pokemon now than Ice Pokemon.

Rock Type- Pokemon's interesting because most franchises group Rock and Ground under simply "Earth", and I've wondered myself if that should've been what Game Freak did since I feel the Types were always quite similar, given how they were paired with one another frequently in Generation 1. But by this point, it's moot, and Rock is here to stay...Rock Pokemon are, as you'd expect, "defensive" based, but with a lot of weaknesses that defense is often easily shattered, and Rock Attacks are seen as more valuable than actual Rock Pokemon, usually given to their Ground-type brethren to work with. Rock Pokemon are creatures made up of rocks mostly, and tend to inhabit caves and mountains. Some of them are basically living rocks, while others are animals with rock-like qualities. Fossil Pokemon are always part-Rock, presumably meant to represent the fossilization process---one wonders if the original Fossil Pokemon weren't part-Rock, but instead pure-Type Pokemon. Anyway, Rock-types do not resist Electric-type attacks as people think, but the only non-Ground Rock Pokemon found in Generation 1 were the Fossil Pokemon, who I recall you rarely encountered. and they don't necessarily look like Rock-type Pokemon that you probably didn't realize what was going on if you attacked them with an Electric-type Attack. One last point is that Rock seemed to be the favored 1st Gym for a long time---Gen 1, 3, and 4 used this, and the only reason 2 didn't was because the Rock-type Gym was still in the game. 5 finally broken this pattern, but it seems Game Freak are hesitant to let this go...Gen 6 bumped it up to Gym 2.

Ground Type- The "Earth" elemental, Ground Pokemon includes creatures made up of the earth, and animals who have a relationship with the earth, such as burrowing creatures and those who live in caves. To be honest, what constitutes a Ground Pokemon might be a bit murky---Ground doesn't give a good impression upon hearing it as to what to expect, and some of the Pokemon don't look any more "earthen" than some of their Rock and Normal counterparts. The Viridian City Gym seemed to be particularly confused about this. Ground Pokemon tend to be large and rounded though, and tend to give off a powerful physical appearance. And they can back it up with the all-powerful Earthquake! Ground Pokemon are perhaps the most well-known for serving as a good introduction to Immunities, as Ground cannot hit Flying, but cannot be hit by Electricity.

Ghost Type- In Generation 1 and 2, Ghost was one of the "mythical" Types that was very rare with only four members introduced between the two games, and is the more mysterious Types. For the most part, the Pokemon world appears to view Ghost Pokemon, and ghosts, as separate entities---indeed, Ghost Pokemon appear to be more of a strange breed of elemental creatures rather than the spirits of the dead, although some Ghost Pokemon do appear to be this type of Ghost. Of course, this is just going by the PokeDex explanations, and those may not be fully accurate. Ghost Pokemon to represent intangibility are immune to Normal and Fighting attacks, even though quite a few Ghost Pokemon appear to be completely solid---one episode of the show seemed to support the idea that certain Ghost Pokemon can freely apply their intangibility depending on the situation, and can be solid if they so choose. Ghost Pokemon were a "physical Type" till Gen IV, oddly enough, despite many of their attacks being classified as Special upon the Physical/Special split. They also had a hard time finding a good niche in the game due to how little there were, and their attacks were pretty odd and not too useful against their only strengths, other Ghost Pokemon and Psychic-types. Shadow Ball was the main offensive option for the longest time, and a reliance on tricky status effects being their modus operandi. Ghost Pokemon got a boost in members in later Generations, but are still the most sparsest Type alongside Ice Pokemon. They're pretty popular Pokemon though since folks love Ghost Pokemon.

Dragon Pokemon- The powerhouse of Pokemon, Dragon Pokemon are, as you'd expect, typically powerful and imposing, but also tend to start as rather unassuming creatures. Dragon Pokemon go both ways, some are based on the more serpentine, Eastern idea, while others borrow the more monstrous European idea of how they look. Others look more like dinosaurs, or something you might see in a Godzilla Movie. Like Ghost Pokemon, in Gen II there were only four of them, but they've greatly increased their ranks since then thanks to the large number of Dragon Legendaries, an easy type to make a Legendary appear imposing. Dragon Pokemon for the longest time only had to worry really about other Dragon Pokemon (and in Gen 1 the only Dragon attack did fixed damage), and Ice-type attacks, but perhaps due to this imbalance, Fairy was introduced, but it's yet to be seen how well this actually worked out. Due to Dragons having more counters, what was once an end-game Pokemon have become more common earlier on in the game, and it could be argue what was once intended to be a very powerful and mystical type has become overused and lost much of the magic.

Steel Type- The first new Type introduced in Gen II, Steel Pokemon are creatures made of steel, and tend to resemble Rock-type Pokemon often, except of course made of stronger material. There are more inorganic Steel Pokemon than any other Type (including the original "robot" Pokemon Magnemite being retconned as one) in my estimate, but Genesect seems to be the only Steel Pokemon whose Steel isn't naturally occurring, but explicitly said to be manmade. Steel has the most defenses, as you'd expect (one less in Generation VI though losing Dark), and appears to have been made to balance Psychic, Dragon, and Normal, out as they didn't have any good counters. Unlike Rock Pokemon, Steel actually does the defensive theme quite well and isn't as fragile.

Dark Type- Dark was also introduced in Gen II, and was made to serve as the antithesis to the Psychic-type as they were immune to them. The problem---Dark Pokemon were very sparse in Gen II, most of them not even appearing till Kanto, but common moves Bite and Crunch becoming Dark helped things a bit. Later generations made Dark more common, such as Generation III which introduced an early game Dark Pokemon, and they've become a pretty popular type. In Japan, Dark are explicitly called "Evil", which NoA I guess found to be a bit too ominous to let kids control, so it became Dark. Dark misleads folks into thinking the type actually controls darkness, which isn't the case mostly except for a few outliers---Evil gives a better picture, that these are Pokemon who fight using nasty tactics. Dark Pokemon are seen as the bad while Fighting and Psychic might come across as good, but as I said before, many of the early Fighting Pokemon weren't exactly nice, and the Psychic Pokemon early on also tended to stray a bit towards the darker side of things. Dark Pokemon are mostly animals that people view as "evil", or "ominous", or are nocturnal, although it also includes some more demonic creatures that are as you'd expect unfriendly. Absol and Darkrai seem to suggest the "Evil" categorization is just that...a human classification for the Pokemon...and they're more misunderstood than necessarily black hearted. Dark Pokemon were oddly "Special" in Gen I-III, but Gen IV's split made most of their moves physical, which is what you'd expect for the Pokemon who use attacks like Bite and Beat Up. We've yet to have a Dark-type Gym Leader, which some ascribe to that being because having a Gym specializing in a nasty type wouldn't fit the lore of the Gym Leaders usually being set up as major members of their community. We've had Elite Four members though, but they've always felt more ominous than the Gym Leaders. Maybe Gen VII will finally deliver?

Fairy Type- The first new Type introduced in years, Fairy was made to counter Dragon (did it succeed?), and also seemed to be a way for Game Freak to make a place for some of the odder Normal Pokemon. 22 Pokemon, many of them Normal, became Fairy-type Pokemon (some kept the Normal-type, others lost it...how exactly did Game Freak decide that?), which might feel a bit jarring. In Gen II, only Magnemite became a new Type, and that was only a few years after he was created---with Fairy, we have Pokemon who have been around for over a decade becoming a new Type! Despite this, there are actually plenty of Pokemon I thought should've become Fairy...Chansey (I mean it's basically the same creature as Jigglypuff and Clefairy), Dunsparce (because it's based off an obscure, mythical creature), Vanillite (I'll explain why soon), and a few others. Fairy Pokemon are mostly pink or white, and are based on fairy-like creatures, but while fairies incorporate a wide arrange of creatures in various lores, most of the Fairy Pokemon follow the common idea of them as very cute, friendly creatures. Like Dragon, perhaps we'll see more variety in future games as they embrace other ideas of what a fairy is? Fairy Pokemon also seem to include "food" Pokemon as we've got Jigglypuff, whose Japanese name is basically "pudding", and Swirlix who is cotton candy, which is why I think the ice cream cone-looking Pokemon would've fit well. An interesting point, Fairy Pokemon are all pretty mysterious and have a connection to the moon---Clefairy is rumored to be an alien Pokemon, and the resident Fairy Gym Leader in Kalos has a very strange look to her. Are all Fairy Pokemon actually alien Pokemon? Well, that's just a theory of mine. Anyway, I like the Fairy Type and think it was the most logical addition---I'm not too thrilled about quite a few of the newer designs, but I am interested in seeing how the Type evolves from here as there is a lot of potential ideas for Game Freak to use.

I'll post my first analysis of the Bulbasaur line next. Hope these Type write-ups gave you a decent taste of what's to come!

I'm really enjoying what you've posted so far, Watch Da Birdie. I'm looking forward to your upcoming posts!

Nice thread.

Skelter said:

Crobat is best.


That is all.

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Amazing first post.

Crobat is the GOAT.

Ahem, moving on, I grew up with Pokémon and it's always been a franchise I loved.
I have never felt to have outgrown the franchise or that all the modern designs are shit (that attitude always annoys me a bit, a shame that it's so prevalent). Although Crobat is my favorite Pokémon, my favorite overall type is Ghost. So many amazing and creative designs coming outta that type. And they have neat backstories.

Since other people rank the genertions, I'll do that too:

1. Gen 4
My favorite. Favorite set of new Pokémon overall, loved that some older Pokémon got evolutions, Sinnoh is my favorite region, and Gen 4 introduced some neat features, such as ordering physical/special by moves, and online features. I hope the inevitable remakes do these games (esp. Platinum, obviously) justice.

2. Gen 3
Really liked the set of Pokémon here too, and the region as well, even with all the water. I am also fond of the trumpet heavy music, certainly gave that Gen its own flair. It also introduced my preferred way to battle, doubles.

3. Gen 5
Gave us the highest amount of new Pokémon ever, and I like most of the designs, though sometimes they aped Gen 1's lineup a little oo much. I thought only finding new Pokémon until posgame was a neat idea, though I was pissed that hat meant I couldn't get Zubat, as Crobat is usually always on my story team no matter the game. Thankfully the sequels rectified that and I could get myself a sweet Zubat. The region was okay, bit simmetrical for my tastes, but I really liked the story in B/W (well, as far as Pokémon stories go).

4. Gen 6
Yea, it would probably be lower were it not the most recent and advanced gen. Didn't care for the region, it had the lowest amount of new Pokémon (especially painful coming from B/W), it didn't run all too well in battle, and the overworld didn't look too hot even for a 3DS game, and I did not care for the story or Mega evolutions at all. So it was quite a rocky transition to 3D and not the glorious revolutionary jump I'd hoped. But I have to say, the online features are really good. PSS is a neat system and wonder trade can be addicting. And despite the low number of Pokémon, quite a few made it to my list of favorites (most of them designed by Hitoshi Ariga, I say let this man come back for Gen 7, dude has talent).

5. Gen 1
Despite this starting the franchise in general and my Pokémon career, I'm not as nostalic for them as most. Region is alright, none of the Pokémon are on my list of favorites, and it's just the most barebones generation due to being the first and Pokémon being a rather iterative franchise.

6. Gen 2
My least favorite Gen. It added a lot of small neat things, like held items, day/night cycles and breeding. And of course the 2 region thing was quite cool at first, until I realized both regions kinda suffered as a result. Found Johto uremarkable and boring, and Kanto felt lifeless compared to its Gen 1 appearance. Gen 2 also introduced my least favorite set of new Pokémon (sans Crobat, heh). And the set of Pokémon is always the most important thing for me when it comes to these games. I just wasn't feeling most of them.

Watch Da Birdie said:

Poison Type- Nowadays, Poison-type Pokemon seem to be hated by Game Freak. We've yet to have a full Poison-type Legendary. But back in Generation 1, they were a very common type, 33 of them introduced, so it's surprising how few we get now despite their being plenty of real-world creatures with poisonous capabilities to draw from. Poison Pokemon fall into two groups---animals and plants that produce natural poisons, and monsters born from pollution. That's a pretty interesting dichotomy where you have completely natural creatures grouped alongside abominations of nature, and from a gameplay perspective a snake bite and a massive environmental disaster are one and the same. Poison-types tend to be grouped alongside Grass and Bug Pokemon, and most of the other "natural" Types, and in fact, alongside Fairy, Poison has the most unused Dual Type combinations having only paired with 10 of the 18 types. Poison got a bit of a boost, in a roundabout way, thanks to being strong against the new Fairy-type, but actual Poison-type Pokemon are seen as less desirable overall. It didn't help that Gen VI only introduced two Poison-type Pokemon, belonging to the same line, that only Y Players can catch. Fittingly, they're often used by lowlifes of the Pokemon world, and most of the non-Grass Poison-type Pokemon tend to have bad attitudes as well.

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Poison is my favorite type in the game, and I think it's a very underestimated type. Yes, offensively Poison isn't great, but defensively it's fantastic, with resistances to Grass, Fighting, Bug, Poison, and Fairy, and weaknesses to only Ground and Psychic. While Ground is everywhere thanks to Earthquake, Psychic's one of the rarest attacking types, so Poison's good there.

The biggest hindrance to Poison types is probably that Poison Pokemon don't tend to have great stats. The Poison type with the highest base stat total is Crobat at 535. Poison is the only type without a legendary (outside of Arceus LOL). But even with that obstacle, plenty of Poison types have made their mark on competitive play, with Amoongus dominating VGCup despite having a base stat total over a hundred points lower than its peers like Cressalia and Landorus-T. The future looks bright for the Poison type as more Fairies enter the game and we inevitably get that damn Poison legendary.

In your type breakdowns: steel lost two weakness in gen 6, not just one: dark and ghost.

Toxi said:

Poison is my favorite type in the game, and I think it's a very underestimated type. Yes, offensively Poison isn't great, but defensively it's fantastic, with resistances to Grass, Fighting, Bug, Poison, and Fairy, and weaknesses to only Ground and Psychic. While Ground is everywhere thanks to Earthquake, Psychic's one of the rarest attacking types, so Poison's good there.

The biggest hindrance to Poison types is probably that Poison Pokemon don't tend to have great stats. The Poison type with the highest base stat total is Crobat at 535. Poison is the only type without a legendary (outside of Arceus LOL). But even with that obstacle, plenty of Poison types have made their mark on competitive play, with Amoongus dominating VGCup despite having a base stat total over a hundred points lower than its peers like Cressalia and Landorus-T. The future looks bright for the Poison type as more Fairies enter the game and we inevitably get that damn Poison legendary.

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Is Psychic really that rare? Admittedly it's not a great offensive type but still. That's why I love Weezing as a tank, he only has one weakness (but he doesn't get much love unfortunately). I like Poison type too, but I think they could've been way better and/or seen more use (at least competitively) if they were exclusive users of Toxic. Never understood how damn near every mon can cause bad poison. I know they got the buff that it's 100% accurate coming from them now, but the move has accuracy of 90% so not exactly a stellar buff.

Man that pic with all those sprites is just overwhelming

001 - Bulbasaur

Bulbasaur is the first Pokemon of the National Dex, and one of the first Pokemon many players encounter as one of the original Starter Pokemon. While Bulbasaur was not designed first (that honor apparently belongs to Rhydon), I think he really encapsulates what Pokemon is all about. Bulbasaur does not seem to resemble any real-life animal---some think he's a dinosaur (note that only his dub name includes the "saur"), others think he's meant to be a frog, which his original sprites resembled far more. Perhaps it's this ambiguity, familiar yet foreign, that gives him his charm, and shows how Pokemon exists in a world that is simultaneously alike and different from the one we live in.

As the Seed Pokemon, Bulbasaur is the first Grass-type Pokemon, and the first Grass-type Starter, and illustrates a common theme that future Grass Pokemon would follow in which an animal and a plant exist together in a symbiotic relationship. Such Pokemon are capable of animal-like locomotion and can digest food, yet also can take in nutrients like a plant and utilize photosynthesis. In most other series, the "plant monsters" tend to simply be monstrous plants so I think Game Freak was wise to do things different for the Premier Grass Pokemon and show that the Pokemon weren't just the usual RPG monsters who exist simply for you to kill. Bulbasaur has a very strong presence and personality that makes you view him as more than just a "plant monster".

Fans also likely forget that Bulbasaur is also the first Poison-type Pokemon, but this element of him is a bit underplayed. In Generation 1, all he had was Poison Powder, which even the non-Poison Tangela could learn, and Toxic as a TM, which basically every Pokemon could learn, and he lacks any "color indicator" of his Poison-typing such as a bright coloring like you'd expect from real-life poisonous creatures. He's actually the only dual-type first form Starter ever, and giving him a secondary Type might confuse folks when it comes to understanding the Type Triangle, as since Poison doesn't factor into the Fire weakness or Water resistance, new players might not realize the secondary typing does is considered in other type match-ups. Game Freak likely realized this, and none of the future Starters were dual-typed in their first forms---this is also possibly because many dual-types would offset the Type Triangle. For example, a Starter will likely never be a Bug because Grass/Bug (4X weak to Fire), Fire/Bug (4X resistant to Grass), or Water/Bug (neutral to Grass) mess up the Type Triangle.

Bulbasaur gained a lot of popularity thanks to Ash's Bulbasaur. Pokemon Special had the protagonist use Bulbasaur as his main Starter Pokemon, something I sort of wish the anime did as opposed to going with Charizard, but even though Charizard is Ash's most powerful Kanto Starter, Bulbasaur was arguably his most loyal, sticking with him the longest and even now remains under his command, although he works at Professor Oak's as the "sheriff" now. A few years later, the anime pushed another Bulbasaur by giving one to May to advertise Fire Red and Leaf Green. That Bulbasaur was wholly forgettable, but oddly enough it evolved all the way to Venusaur when she appeared again during Diamond and Pearl. Huh.


002 - Ivysaur

Ivysaur is the first "middle form" in the series, which can be seen as basically the equivalent of puberty. Likely most players will spend the most time with the first form, slowly training it at the beginning of the game as they get into the groove of things, and the final form. The middle form thus will be seen the least, and it's easy for both the designers and the player to write them off. I think there are admittedly middle form Pokemon that do feel a bit "throwaway", a necessary step between the cute initial form and the powerful final form, but on the other hand that blend of cute and powerful can also work to their advantage. Ivysaur I think indicates this well, looking tougher than Bulbasaur, but far cuter than Venusaur. There's also sort of an awkwardness to it---Bulbasaur and its bulb, and Venusaur and its flower, feel rather balanced with one another, but depending on the art, Ivysaur usually tends to be a bit small compared to its flower, or its body seems bigger than the flower.

Another awkward element of Ivysaur, one that was quickly dropped, was Red/Blue talked about Ivysaur being bipedal, and its sprite even demonstrated this which looked quite odd and wasn't shown in any other medium as far as I recall. Ruby and Sapphire kind of have it sitting crouched to perhaps reference this, but all future sprites go back to the classic quadruped look, and no other PokeDex mentions the idea of it being able to stand on its hind legs. A wise decision, in my opinion. One point for Ivysaur is that its flower has bloomed, and the brighter colors now give it a better sense of being a Poison-type Pokemon, even though it doesn't learn any additional Poison-type attacks. Perhaps Game Freak should've held off the Poison-type till Ivysaur and left Bulbasaur pure-Grass?

Ivysaur's biggest claim to fame was being the Pokemon representative in Smash Brothers Brawl alongside Squirtle and Charizard, although he was dropped in 4 unfortunately. I found him to be quite an awkward character to play as in that game, but he was fairly unique as the lone four-legged fighter. That was pretty much Ivysaur's only claim to fame in the entire Pokemon media-verse---Ash's Bulbasaur never evolved, we never saw May's Ivysaur as it evolved all the way to Venusaur before she returned to the show, and I recall Red's in Pokemon's Adventure quickly evolved into Venusaur as well. But hey, that's the life of a middle-form Pokemon.


003 Venusaur

Venusaur is the first fully-evolved Starter, and shows just how tough Pokemon can end up turning into! Venusaur is one of the larger Pokemon among the original 151, at an impressive 6'07", and weighs a hefty 220.5 lbs (which is actually pretty light considering, but among the Pokemon that's heavy!), and looks rather mean. I recall the Stadium Model gave it bloodshot eyes whenever it attacked which made it look downright scary, and I don't get what the model designer was smoking when they made that decision. Despite its appearance, its PokeDex actually gives a far different impression, a rather peaceful and gentle Pokemon whose flower is said to soothe people. Speaking of its flower, most believe it to be a rafflesia (a flower which in real life is known for having a horrid stench), which is also what Vileplume is based upon.

Venusaur unfortunately didn't get a game of his own in much of the world due to everywhere outside Japan going with Red and Blue, and because of this I feel he was the least popular Starter as most kids went with Charizard or Blastoise. Most kids probably think fire dragons and turtles with cannons are instantly cooler, so that's no surprise, but I feel like Venusaur is the "adult's Starter". Many of us didn't give him his due as children but as we grew up, we looked back and realized he was the most creative and clever of the Starter Pokemon and had more tricks to him then he let on. That's how it was for me, at least. Thankfully the rest of the world got him on the cover of a game thanks to Leaf Green.

Venusaur still doesn't get as much focus as Blastoise and Charizard do, though. Pokemon Special has the only major Venusaur I can think of, as Venusaur's appearances in the show have been pretty sporadic...I mentioned May had a Venusaur, but I recall hers only appeared for a quick scene and wasn't commented on beyond that. Most people still seem to see Charizard and Blastoise as the "Dueling Kanto Starters", with Venusaur as sort of a third wheel. Although lately it seems like Charizard is leaving Blastoise behind as well...


M003 - Mega Venusaur

Game Freak years after introducing Venusaur later introduced Mega Venusaur in Generation VI, a "Super Form" of Venusaur. Touching the hallowed ground of the Kanto Starters was quite a risky venture---people were mixed on Mega Pokemon, and going straight for the childhood could easily go south. Personally, I think Game Freak were very constrained with the Mega Kanto Starters, and I find them all decent and inoffensive, even if I'm not quite sold on Mega Pokemon yet due to various reasons. But, for better or worse, they exist, and we have to accept that.

Anyway, Mega Venusaur doesn't change too radically---it gets a bit larger, specifically its flower, and noticeably its legs which before sort of bent in and seemed a bit weak, are now more firm and thicker in order to support the larger flower. The only point of the design I don't care for too much is the little flower on its forehead as it takes away a bit of its fierceness and makes it look oddly cute, but in a way that clashes with the rest of it. It gains Thick Fat during this Mega Evolution, which is a neat Ability for it since it helps offset the Fire and Ice weakness, although I don't know if that's preferable to Chlorophyll which feels more useful in the long run.

Toxi said:

Poison is my favorite type in the game, and I think it's a very underestimated type. Yes, offensively Poison isn't great, but defensively it's fantastic, with resistances to Grass, Fighting, Bug, Poison, and Fairy, and weaknesses to only Ground and Psychic. While Ground is everywhere thanks to Earthquake, Psychic's one of the rarest attacking types, so Poison's good there.

The biggest hindrance to Poison types is probably that Poison Pokemon don't tend to have great stats. The Poison type with the highest base stat total is Crobat at 535. Poison is the only type without a legendary (outside of Arceus LOL). But even with that obstacle, plenty of Poison types have made their mark on competitive play, with Amoongus dominating VGCup despite having a base stat total over a hundred points lower than its peers like Cressalia and Landorus-T. The future looks bright for the Poison type as more Fairies enter the game and we inevitably get that damn Poison legendary.

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Toxi
Member
(Today, 09:48 PM)


Poison is one of my favorite types too, with Crobat being one of my favorite pokemon. I always felt that Dunsparce should have been a poison pokemon given the tsuchinoko myth. And now also a fairy, so it'd have the unique typing of poison/fairy.

Anyway, along with poison I'd have to say that water is one of my favorites as well. I wish Poison was a bit stronger of a type though.

EDIT: I wish that Acid had the move changed to be something that did super effective damage against steel types. Something like corrosion or whatever that really tears apart metals.

Toxi said:

Poison is my favorite type in the game, and I think it's a very underestimated type. Yes, offensively Poison isn't great, but defensively it's fantastic, with resistances to Grass, Fighting, Bug, Poison, and Fairy, and weaknesses to only Ground and Psychic. While Ground is everywhere thanks to Earthquake, Psychic's one of the rarest attacking types, so Poison's good there.

The biggest hindrance to Poison types is probably that Poison Pokemon don't tend to have great stats. The Poison type with the highest base stat total is Crobat at 535. Poison is the only type without a legendary (outside of Arceus LOL). But even with that obstacle, plenty of Poison types have made their mark on competitive play, with Amoongus dominating VGCup despite having a base stat total over a hundred points lower than its peers like Cressalia and Landorus-T. The future looks bright for the Poison type as more Fairies enter the game and we inevitably get that damn Poison legendary.

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"Toxi"

Agree Poison is my favorite and it's the type of my #1 man, Muk. I tend to play Pokemon pretty straight-forward but I always give myself a Poison for gonzo-strats. Usually I'm just playing rock-paper-scissor with type advantages but I love having a Poison type around for Toxic, minimize, harden, that held item that lets them heal a little bit, etc. Playing casually, Poison doesn't need to be Super Effective to crank out damage, they just do it differently.

Poison is one of the reasons the Pokemon games kind of suck though. It'd be cool if Poison was truly balanced out as a totally different (but viable) play style but in casual play you're just making your battles last longer and in competitive your Poison guy is just going to get Super Effective STABbed off the field by some savage motherfucker: since 'mons regularly get knocked out in one or two moves the poison status just doesn't get much chance to do real damage.

If Vanilluxe was Ice/Fairy it might actually be notable for something other than people hating its design

Bladenic said:

Mega Venusaur is my favorite EXCEPT that hideous flower on its head AND its ass.

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I like the idea of the flowers, I don't like that they're 2D

Mega Venusaur is my favorite EXCEPT that hideous flower on its head AND its ass. Adore the Bulbasaur line though. It was my favorite in the anime, I remember when it tore up at the Indigo League beating a Beedrill and Scyther (but then lost to a damn Bellsprout cuz it had to share spotlight with Muk). Also I stopped watching the anime at this point, but I believe there was a battle where Ash brought back the Kanto starters and Bulbasaur was the only one to win his round (maybe Squirtle did too or tied?).

Trace said:

Bad. They don't perform well, most of the new pokemon are trash, and the games are so easy now you could probably play them without actually looking at the game.

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Meh, single player has never been great. The latest games are the best when it comes to online play though. Breeding is easy to get into and competitive battling really brings out the mechanics in pokemon.

I remember I never had to make the choice of the starter since I got Yellow, so I had all four of them on my team, but I clearly remember Venusaur was my go-to Pokémon he was clearly the best one, when I had the chance to choose on X/Y I went Venusaur, no regrets.

Its funny since turtles are my favorite animal and charmander is the cutest of the 3 base starters, thinking back now I realize it was the anime that made me love Bulbasaur more than the others, bulba was clearly the best pokemon Ash had in Kanto, such a badass.

Bladenic said:

Mega Venusaur is my favorite EXCEPT that hideous flower on its head AND its ass. Adore the Bulbasaur line though. It was my favorite in the anime, I remember when it tore up at the Indigo League beating a Beedrill and Scyther (but then lost to a damn Bellsprout cuz it had to share spotlight with Muk). Also I stopped watching the anime at this point, but I believe there was a battle where Ash brought back the Kanto starters and Bulbasaur was the only one to win his round (maybe Squirtle did too or tied?).

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I think it was the Pyramid Battle during the Battle Frontier Season, Ash brought back Bulbasaur, Squirtle, and Charizard. Forgot how it went, but I think you're right---I do recall that Charizard actually lost right at the beginning, and in a weird way. He tried to Seismic Toss Dusclops, who at the last second tricked him and went "intangible". Even though that's not possible in the games, I thought a Ghost Pokemon being able to manipulate how solid it was was a cool idea and how I sort of see Ghost Pokemon as working now.

Since quite a few people are ranking the main entries, I thought i'd give my two cents as to my personal ranking (based on how I feel about them at the time of this post, not counting the three remakes):

1. Pokémon Gold/Silver/Crystal: Putting aside the fact that this was the game that really got me into gaming, this is a remarkable turning point for the series that still holds up incredibly well in spite of a few petty issues. It introduced a lot of features that are taken for granted nowadays like the day/night cycle, the Sp. Attack/Defense split, berries, held items, etc., or even some which are wholly exclusive to it like revisiting previous regions. It's also an excellent exercise in world-building, with the player finding Pokémon sleeping during the night after headbutting them in a tree or a Hoothoot resting in the middle of the day or even hearing about these legendary birds at the top of a tower/at the bottom of a cave that made the world feel so lively in comparison to previous and even future entries. It still holds up to this day as the high point for the Pokémon series... provided you can get a copy with a battery that still works or know how to replace it.

2.5 Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire // Pokémon Black/2/White/2: Having recently finished White 2, it's hard to pick between the two as to which is better. Black/White/2 was such a refreshing title after the abysmal Diamond/Pearl, if only because it fixed a lot of issues with that title. The battles were faster, the main game was more challenging. It is a very linear entry, its sequel arguably moreso than the first, the new 150+ Pokémon were more misses than hits, the addition of Triple/Rotation Battles were largely uninteresting and both games feature the hypocritical villains that are Team Plasma but on the whole, a breath of fresh air and a fine JRPG in its own right, if not up to snuff with the likes of Radiant Historia and The World Ends With You. Ruby/Sapphire, in contrast, has the most compelling pair of villain teams to ever grace the series while refining the concept of berries and the EV system in addition to introducing new ideas a la Double Battles and Abilities. That said, for whatever jokes can be made about "too much water", the tropical location of Hoenn does not have very good pacing when it comes to cruising through its waters even with the aid of repels, to say nothing of the wasted potential of diving under the seas that was equally pointless when they brought it back in Black/White. Likewise, the graphics music were a step down for the series given the GameBoy Advance (though the latter that can be partially attributed to its awful sound hardware), as was the lack of many key features from Gold, Silver and Crystal, and it seemed to set a precedent for how each story would unfold, namely the third act which would involve X team getting Y legendary that the player has no choice but to capture (the only option in later games) or defeat it. Still, a solid pair of games for different reasons.

Pokémon Red/Blue/Yellow: Unlike Gold/Silver, which have aged fairly well (though they have aged in some areas, namely the writing), the first entry in the series just does not hold up. Yes it started the whole series off but it hasn't aged well: Physic types are incredibly unbalanced, Ghosts and Bug types had next to no usable moves of their respective types, if at all, and a lot of the moves were utterly useless (ex: Lick was super effective on Psychic types but was too weak to be effective on them). Also, while it's no doubt fun to manipulate the game to catch things like Mew, there's a ton of glitches that are more harmful than helpful. The soundtrack is superb but it doesn't make the experience any less bearable. Unless you're studying RPG design or want to see how the series started off, i'd recommend trying the excellent remake in the form of FireRed/LeafGreen. That and the battery issue that Gold/Silver/Crystal have make it hard to play it unless one does it in a single run.

Pokémon Diamond/Pearl/Platinum: I loathe the Sinnoh region and every game that took place on it. It isn't the worst game by Game Freak (hello Tembo the redundant title description), but it is by far the weakest main entry in the series. Mediocre music and graphics (the latter of which even had some slowdown for certain moves), a slew of forgettable new creatures on an even more forgettable region that fumbles older mechanics like the day/night cycle in favor of gimmicks using the DS' touch screen which had or would be better used in superior Japanese RPGs like The World Ends With You. Yes, it gave us the physical/special split. No, that doesn't make it good, especially the mundanity of Diamond/Pearl. Then again, i'm in the minority who doesn't much care for HeartGold/SoulSilver and feel it took away a lot of what made the original (i.e. the world-building) so great so take this with a grain of salt: All the fourth generation did in general was produce mediocre game, be it spin-off or otherwise, after mediocre game to my growing disdain, something I say with this being the generation in the main series I put the most hours into.

I don't feel fair in talking about X/Y/Gen VI since I have zero interest in playing it and Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire showed me very little reason to do anything but renew my lack of interest towards the two titles, soon to be three next year. I guess i'm not fond of Mega Evolution since they represent how bad the power creep has gotten since Ruby/Sapphire but that's about it.

Watch Da Birdie said:

001 - Bulbasaur

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Are you actually about to go through all the Pokemon?

Jigglypuff still the best. your faves could never, what other Pokemon besides the mascot Pikachu can claim to have been in all 4- Smash games? that's right!

004 - Charmander

Charmander is the first Fire Starter, and the first Fire Pokemon overall. Unlike Bulbasaur, Charmander is a far more simpler design---a small lizard-like creature with a flaming tail. If you take its dub name at face value, technically it'd be an amphibian, but once more this is the dub name implying an element of the Pokemon the original name didn't, as Hitokage simply means "fire lizard". On the other hand, the mythical Salamander---a creature of fire---may have been the intention when deciding upon the dub name. Either way, Charmander sets the stage for future Fire Pokemon which tend to follow this idea of a normal creature with a flame spouting from somewhere on its body.

The most prominent feature of Charmander is of course its torch tail, which is a very cute touch but also an example of the darker side of Pokemon, as if the tail goes out, Charmander dies. This actually seems to have originated with the show, as the original Generation 1 PokeDex makes no mention of its tail serving as its life-force---in fact Red and Blue simply states steam spouts from its tail when it rains, implying the fire going out isn't an issue as it's hot enough to dissolve water. It wasn't till Gold and Silver that the PokeDex in the game incorporated the idea of Charmander having such a weakness.

Another change to Charmander was that some of the earlier art and sprites showed that Charmander had small spikes running down its back, but later designs removed this aspect---and even Charmeleon's early sprites lacked these sprites as well, perhaps indicating it was an oversight like a left-over element of the family they ultimately dropped. Charmander's design seems to fluctuate in general---sometimes it has a very roundish, stubby body, but other times it has a more pointed snout and is much skinnier. It seems to vary from appearance to appearance.

Charmander alongside the other Kanto Starters played a major part in the television show, but unlike the rest of Ash's Starter Pokemon actually evolved. Its time as Charmander was long enough that it established itself as a pretty lovable Pokemon, and its debut episode is one of the more memorable elements of the television series. Charmander evolves into Charizard, so by default he enjoys a lot of popularity thanks to his final form and thus a ton of people chose him in the originals, the remakes, and XY.


005 - Charmeleon

I think Charmeleon could be called the most unfortunate middle-form Starter. He really doesn't stand a chance compared to his evolution, Charizard, who everyone adores. Charmeleon on the other hand seems to be "that Pokemon I gotta go through to get Charizard", and that's that. One element of Charmeleon that always bugged me was his color---he's dark red, but his previous form and evolution are orange, so he really sticks out. Looking back, the original Charmeleon Sugimori Art looks to be more or less the same color as the others (it's hard to tell due to how washed out the colors are), and his original sprite appears to be the same color as well, but when it was time to animate him they made him a dark red and it seemed to stick. The Shiny Form shows perhaps what could've been, although in some games it looks more gold than orange.

Once more, Charmeleon's name was chosen more for the pun than being indicative of what the Pokemon is---it obviously doesn't look like a chameleon much at all, and resembles some type of dinosaur creature. There's not much else to say about Charmeleon since it doesn't do much visually different from Charmander, but I gotta wonder, what dude thought this Pokemon was a good Starter Pokemon? Besides the fact its always wielding a huge flame that is said to be extremely hot, it's also a very "barbaric" and vicious Pokemon that rips its foes to shreds. Probably not the best Pokemon for mid-level Trainers, right?

As I said before, Charmeleon is "that Pokemon between Charmander and Charizard", and in the show it served this role as it was only Charmeleon for a few episodes. Despite its short presence, I feel it was quite memorable as I remember being shocked and a bit upset when it was shown to be very disobedient towards Ash after being such a cute and friendly Pokemon. The older episodes seem to push this idea that Pokemon became completely different individuals basically upon evolution, which kind of bugged me---I sympathized with Ash not evolving them considering how they basically could end up becoming huge assholes all of a sudden. I don't recall Charmeleon ever having a large role in the show outside of one of the latest episodes having Trevor's get completely wrecked by Fletchinder.


006 - Charizard

What to say about Charizard? Like it or not, I think it's fair to say he's the reason a lot of people, myself included, picked up Pokemon---seeing that cool dragon on the cover of Pokemon Red was just too hard to resist. I think both sides have a point---is Charizard a classic Pokemon whose design is both simplistic and memorable, or is he an overrated "focus-tested" Pokemon designed to appeal to the kids? I think both sides might be right, and while I don't care for Charizard that much nowadays, there was a time where he was the coolest, and I can see why Game Freak is promoting him.

Charizard's popularity was at its peak during Generation I, and Generation II didn't seem to slow it down since I think a lot of people found Typhlosion an unworthy Pokemon to pass the torch to and Charizard reined supreme. With Generation III, even with Fire Red putting him back in the spotlight, I felt his popularity started to cool off a bit---Blaziken seemed to be picking up steam as a worthy contender, and the show even seemed to reflect this by having the latter deliver a smack-down to Char during the Johto League. And then, as I mentioned a few posts above, the show brought him back later only to have him beaten down by a Dusclops of all Pokemon. Now though he suddenly seems just as popular as ever, and Game Freak seems to be endorsing him even more than they did during Generation I.

Charizard's biggest feature besides his horn splitting, are his impressive wings as he becomes a Fire/Flying Pokemon. Fans are still miffed he wasn't made part-Dragon, but I think that would've gave him an unfair advantage compared to the other Starters, especially during Generation I. He'd resist both Starters, and basically wouldn't have to worry about any Type except Ground and Rock, which weren't that threatening back then. He'd be the obvious choice, and it'd offset the balance, so Fire/Flying was a wise choice. As the first Flying Pokemon he, of course, flies, although only in Yellow could he actually Fly in Generation I.

Charizard has played a major role throughout the franchise, notably appearing in Smash Brothers Brawl and being the only one retained in Smash Brothers 4 as his own character. While in the games, despite his appearance, he's a quick glass-cannon, Smash depicts him as a much slower, lumbering creature---while this doesn't align with the games, I think Sakurai is within his right with this depiction as Charizard moves like I'd imagine a creature that looks like him would move, and I'm willing to sacrifice 1:1 reliance to the source material if it makes a good Smash character, and Charizard is rather fun to play as in Smash 4. He's also a fighter in Pokken, although I don't have much knowledge on how he plays in that.

Charizard is of course remembered for his appearance in the show as one of Ash's strongest, and eventually loyalest, Pokemon and some of the greatest moments of the series revolve around him. In Johto he left to train, but since then has regularly reappeared to help out, most recently during Best Wishes 2 in order to aid Ash in his fight against Team Plasma. Many also wonder if we'll see him return to Ash and become Mega Charizard Y during XY&Z, although so far it seems Sceptile was chosen for that role. There's plenty of other notable Charizard throughout the franchise, such as Green's in Pokemon Special, Red's in Pokemon Origin, and now Alan's in the Mega Pokemon Episodes.

Another popular incarnation of Charizard is the famous Base Set Charizard, once seen as one of the rarest cards you could own---I remember the day I got one, only to have it stolen literally that same night at a sleepover. In reality, the card is actually pretty bad if I recall, but it was the coolest Pokemon and had the biggest numbers, so everyone was all over it. It seems a lot of folks sort of realized once they grew up that despite how impressive he looked, Charizard wasn't that good---especially with the advent of Stealth Rock.


M006 X & M006 Y - Mega Charizard X and Mega Charizard Y

Charizard got not one, but two Mega Evolutions in XY, sharing that honor only with Mewtwo. I...don't like this. It feels very unfair that he gets two while the other Kanto Starters only get one, and by this point you can't deny Game Freak are pandering a bit too hard to his fans. But it's been done.

Mega Charizard Y was the first to be revealed, and in my opinion should be the "canon" Mega Evolution as it fits the best alongside the other Mega Kanto Starters in terms of being a rather tame expansion of the original. The Pokemon Company seems to disagree with me, though, because Mega Charizard Y has been completely ignored in Smash, the show, and in marketing in favor of Mega Charizard X. Probably because he isn't a Dragon-type like everyone wanted, but sticks to his guns. He seems to focus Charizard's flying capabilities, as he looks far more aerodynamic that makes it easier to believe he's the speedster Charizard's stats indicate.

Mega Charizard X feels like Game Freak giving it to fan demands, and just going crazy with Charizard---they go with his edgy Shiny black coloration, and now he's sporting blue flames to show just how hot he is. And, yes, he's Fire/Dragon! At this point, Dragon has enough counters that it doesn't make him as overpowered as that would've been in Generation I, so I can accept the Type change. This is the Mega Evolution that gets all the love, appearing in Smash and playing a prominent role in both Origins and the Mega Evolution specials. In fact Origins ultimately ended up being a massive advertisement to show how cool Charizard, and Mega Charizard X, were. Sorry, I don't mean to sound so salty here.

Fun fact: The Gen 2 fully-evolved Fire starter, Typhlosion, has identical base stats to Charizard. No wonder Typhlosion is so forgettable.

To be fair, the history of Pokémon pandering to Charizard fans has basically been their gameplan since...right after the release of the very first game!

It features prominently in the anime, the opening to GSC (despite not being readily available), the Champion and Red in GSC. It immediately becomes the most valuable card in the TCG. It then sort of slid to the background during Gen 3 only to come back in full force with the remakes.

If anything we'll probably see a third Mega for Charizard before Venusaur and Blastoise get a second.

Toxi said:

Fun fact: The Gen 2 fully-evolved Fire starter, Typhlosion, has identical base stats to Charizard. No wonder Typhlosion is so forgettable.

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They also made the Fire Starter the clear easy path to victory in Gen 2 because of Charizards popularity. That it ends up being one of the more boring and forgettable starters has to do with movelists and appearance.

Base set Charizard is pretty bad as far as I could tell. It has great burst damage but the drain on your resources is huge compared to the other starters who have a decent damage output and good utility with their ability to either move energy around (Venusaur) or increase the rate at which you can get it into play (Blastoise).

Might as well add the world's best Pokemon parody video: PokeAwesome

You heathens, Typhlosion is the best fire starter design-wise! If only Game Freak stopped shitting on it giving him a good special movepool...

Very interesting read, thanks for that. Will follow the thread.
I'm not sure I care about the individual Pokemon write ups though, I'd rather read about bigger picture things. I think one section per evolution family is more than enough.

I realized that my post is too long so I've added titles and paragraph breaks.

My relation with the franchise

I have recently beaten a Pokemon game for the first time, Pokemon X. I started playing it at launch, dropped it for some reason, and then returned to it after years determined to beat it. Besides Gen V (which I skipped for some reason, should probably rectify that soon) I have played between 1 and 2 games each generation and yet I have never beaten any till now. Usually I would get stuck and stop, in my first game I stopped when I realized my Blastoise couldn't beat Articuno and he was pretty much the only Pokemon I have trained. So after 15 years I realized that I am a big fan of the Pokemon franchise and of the Pokemon themselves, not the games.

When I try to order generations by favorites I can only think of the Pokemon introduced in each gen. If I order them in terms of Pokemon I love we'll get:

• 3 from each of Gen IV: (Luxray, Togekiss, and Gallade) and Gen III: (Torchic, Aggron, and Lombre).
• 1 from each of Gen I (Jigglypuff), Gen II (Wobuffet), and Gen V (Chandelure).
• 0 from Gen VI.

Of course these are only the Pokemon that I will forever keep in my party regardless of game (or if Pokemon were real ). Gen IV had the best fully evolved starter trio, I could easily go with either. Gen VI had the best cover legendaries by a mile.
There is also the fact that I choose my Pokemon based on looks rather than stats or viability. I also have a problem that I only like using Pokemon that have 2-stage evolutions, and I don't like using Pokemon that aren't fully evolved. Funnily enough my favorite Pokemon is Jigglypuff, but just like Torchic and Wobuffet I like them because they are cute and don't really intend to use them in the games (I always thought of Jigglypuff as the Pikachu to my Ash). The only Pokemon on my team that breaks the rules is Lombre, since I really don't like Ludicolo.

Pokemon types

I have to admit, to this day I never understood the types relations and still have to use a chart. I like the way you explain the Rock/Ground typing since to this day I can't tell their effectiveness apart, not that I can tell with most dual typed Pokemon. All of this made Pokemon Shuffle teach me what beats what the best since:

1. There are no dual type Pokemon in that game.
2. It automatically chooses the most effective Pokemon.

I never noticed that Ghost Pokemon are still relatively uncommon, I thought they had blown up like the Dragon type (especially since a lot of people love the Ghost type).
My favorite type has always been Electric. The problem? I only like using two-evolution Pokemon. In Gen II I got Ampharos, which I didn't necessarily like but I did not have a choice. It was not until Gen IV that I got my favorite battle/cool Pokemon: Luxray, and he was exactly what I have been waiting for since the start of the franchise.
I don't have an explicit least favorite type, but I think it would be Bug: I just don't remember most of them, never learned their names, and I am always reminded that some of them exist. I just don't care about bugs in real life either.

Man, writing up each evolution line the way you're doing is pretty cool, but it's going to be a big undertaking. Good luck! With a little luck people might understand some of the underlying concepts better and finally stop shitting on object-like Pokemon (hahaha who am I kidding).

Either way, I don't particularly hate/dislike any Pokémon. Okay, Dugtrio, Magnemite and Exeggcute annoy me because the 'multiple monsters in one ball' schtick is stupid, but other than that I can appreciate the different ideas behind them. For instance I thought Volcarona was so-so until someone pointed out it's basically Gamefreak's version of Mothra. Maybe some of your writeups will better my opinion on some of them too!

Also since this is turning into a stealth 'your fav gens' thread: 2=5>>1>3>>6>>>>4. D/P/P are such a bummer to me.

Charmeleon doesn't get enough love. My favorite design in the Charmander line.

This is a cool idea and the write-ups are ace so far. To be honest I was hoping you weren't going to go in Pokedex order to make it more interesting tough (and to reach newer Pokemon sooner).

Great idea for a thread. Should at least give people a chance to not just dismiss certain designs. You should mix it up and not go in Dex order so that people don't just shift away. That makes it exciting, never know what's going on next.

Celebi forever by the way

Watch Da Birdie said:

The Pokemon series right now could perhaps be said to be going through some growing pains...the move to 3D, while something a lot of folks wanted, came with it a lot of discussion about Pokemon's viability in the modern industry. Pokemon is still popular, that cannot be argued, but its popularity at this point seems to rely on mainly classic fans who are unable to let the series go, and some would point out, their devotion to the series has led to Game Freak resting on their laurels too often. Furthermore, there's been a lot of controversy concerning the relationship between The Pokemon Company and Nintendo, with the former seemingly turning into a major heel among the gaming community for their overprotective nature of the IP.

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Couldn't let this thread be without countering you on this. Good god man, this entire paragraph is completely off-base.

Popularity relying on classic fans? Good god no, there is no evidence to support this assertion. Never mistake the vocal minority to be the majority. I have also seen nobody question its viability, considering it's still one of the best selling games each and every year, just on one format. Game Freak also hasn't "rested on their laurels". Just because they don't do things that fans want them to does not mean that.

There is also absolutely nothing wrong between the relationship of TPC and Nintendo. They just revealed a huge project they're working on together for mobile. Just because they don't let Pokémon be in every single game that supports amiibo in no way means there's controversy

BkzUzi said:

Gen 5 is the worst generation. It only had like 5-10 decent pokemon designs and the rest were shit, and Team Plasma is the worst team.
Gen II > III > I > IV > VI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> V.

The best pokemon is Charizard, and I can't wait for the next game to be released so that Charizard gets his Mega Evolution Z.

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You are my natural enemy. I disagree with both of these opinions greatly. Charizard is garbage.

Was hoping for people to care about my post, but guess not

It's surprisingly hard to find out who conceived of what, because of how tight-lipped the design team tends to be. That said, from what I've seen of the concept process it's more of a team effort.

Dr. Feel Good said:

Nostalgia.

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I can hear the 8-bit Pokemon cries as I look at this

Toxi said:

Fun fact: The Gen 2 fully-evolved Fire starter, Typhlosion, has identical base stats to Charizard. No wonder Typhlosion is so forgettable.

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The sad thing is that I thought Quilava was pretty cool. Should kept going quadrupedal and made its body more intense.

JoeM86 said:

*snip*

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What happened to your tag?!

NEO0MJ said:

What happened to your tag?!

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Long story from another thread

Pikachu and Charizard are my favorite Pokémon because I started playing on Yellow.

I usually have Gengar and Espeon on my team as well.

I leave the last two slots open for whatever Pokémon catches my eye next, sometimes it is Scizor, Lucario, Milotic, or some other cool looking Pokémon.

Where is that Charizard sprite from? The game I played it looked like this.

Watch Da Birdie said:

Rock Type- Pokemon's interesting because most franchises group Rock and Ground under simply "Earth", and I've wondered myself if that should've been what Game Freak did since I feel the Types were always quite similar, given how they were paired with one another frequently in Generation 1. But by this point, it's moot, and Rock is here to stay...Rock Pokemon are, as you'd expect, "defensive" based, but with a lot of weaknesses that defense is often easily shattered, and Rock Attacks are seen as more valuable than actual Rock Pokemon, usually given to their Ground-type brethren to work with. Rock Pokemon are creatures made up of rocks mostly, and tend to inhabit caves and mountains. Some of them are basically living rocks, while others are animals with rock-like qualities. Fossil Pokemon are always part-Rock, presumably meant to represent the fossilization process---one wonders if the original Fossil Pokemon weren't part-Rock, but instead pure-Type Pokemon. Anyway, Rock-types do not resist Electric-type attacks as people think, but the only non-Ground Rock Pokemon found in Generation 1 were the Fossil Pokemon, who I recall you rarely encountered. and they don't necessarily look like Rock-type Pokemon that you probably didn't realize what was going on if you attacked them with an Electric-type Attack. One last point is that Rock seemed to be the favored 1st Gym for a long time---Gen 1, 3, and 4 used this, and the only reason 2 didn't was because the Rock-type Gym was still in the game. 5 finally broken this pattern, but it seems Game Freak are hesitant to let this go...Gen 6 bumped it up to Gym 2.

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Having the Rock Gym come first serves as a kind of forced tutorial of the type weakness chart. Rock types are strong against Normal, Flying, and Poison (from bugs) that populate the early areas of most games, so players have to leverage their starter's element in order to get through their otherwise high defenses.

Blasian Persuasion said:

Where is that Charizard sprite from? The game I played it looked like this.

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It's from the original Red/Green versions. Their sprites were... different.

Ah, is this the part where everyone gets a little passive-aggressive against Charizard because he's more popular than their favorite? I love this part. Nothing confirms being the best like seeing haters everywhere. Even OP couldn't help but get a little salty.



Seriously though, for all the jabs at Charizard being edgy or focus-tested-cool, I think the more disarming attributes of his design gets overlooked. For a fierce fire-breathing dragon, he's got a rather adorable potbelly. For a pokemon that uses Slash and gets Tough Claws when he mega-evolves, he's got little baby arms. It's the part of Charizard that keeps him from being too menacing. Charizard manages to successfully straddle the line of being too cute or too edgy. He's like a German Shepard that could just as easily be the family pet as it could be a viscous attack-dog.



Also, isn't Charmander's tail more of a gauge displaying how healthy it is, rather than being the sole force that keeps it alive? I've interpreted the pokedex entries as saying that its tail will only go out when it dies, rather than it will die if its tail goes out.

007 - Squirtle

In real life, there are no animals you necessarily associate with Grass or Fire, so with Bulbasaur and Charmander, Game Freak took normal animals and gave them a "fantastical" element to signify their Typings. Water, on the other hand, doesn't have that issue, as there are countless animals who people associate with Water simply due to their habitat in real-life, thus Squirtle is far more simple in design than those two. It's merely a turtle that's colored blue, and most folks from that alone will deduce that is a Water-type Pokemon. Overall, it seems far easier to design Water-type Pokemon, and most follow this rather simple design aesthetic where they don't stray too far from what animal they're based on.

The most interesting element of Squirtle is its large curly tail, which as child along with its dub name made me think it was literally meant to be a strange turtle-squirrel hybrid. I don't believe there's any turtle with a tail quite like Squirtle's, so it appears to be simply a little extra addition to spice it up a bit more in appearance, and it gives it a bit more balance in terms of its design as opposed to if it lacked a tail, which would make it look a bit more awkward standing on both feet. Squirtle's Japanese name "Zenigame", literally means "pond turtle", but there seems to be another pun going on that an in-game program in BW mentions: Squirtle's shell resembles the old zeni coins somewhat, leading to the idea that in the Pokemon universe, the Pokemon was named as such for that resemblance.

Squirtle was always a popular Pokemon thanks to its appearance in the show where it was the memorable leader of the Squirtle Squad and sported some badass shades, and while Ash ultimately released Squirtle to pursue its dreams of becoming a fire fighter, it still returns on occasion alongside the other Kanto Starters to get the job done. Like with Bulbasaur, May herself also caught a Squirtle during the Battle Frontier season of the show to advertise Fire Red and Leaf Green. That Squirtle lacked any interesting characteristics though, and a lot of folks felt like it was shallow advertising without much thought put into the character. Now in XY, we also have Tierno's Squirtle, a tough-as-nails break dancing Pokemon.

Squirtle was chosen as one of the Pokemon representatives in Smash Brothers Brawl, and was the quick light-weight counterpart to Ivysaur and Charizard. Squirtle was easily the funnest Pokemon Trainer Pokemon to use in Brawl, and it was a bit disappointing to see him dropped in Smash 4. Might Ivysaur and him one day return as DLC?


Wartortle - 008

Now, I have an issue with Wartortle. He's not a bad Pokemon, but when it comes to the other Kanto Starters, it was clear the designers had a very clear idea of how to advance the evolution lines in a clear and concise way. Bulbasaur grows larger as its bulb blossoms into a flower, and Charmander (barring the odd color change with Charmeleon) has a natural progression as it grows horns and gets bigger. Wartortle, on the other hand, is a natural progression from Squirtle, yet it seems quite odd when you look at Blastoise right after it who loses the feathery ears and tail without any explanation. This always bothered me, and while I like Blastoise, I wonder what he would've looked like had he kept more of Wartortle's elements in-tact?

Wartortle is actually based off of a legendary Japanese creature known as the minogame, a turtle so old that it grows a little tail made of seaweed. And indeed, Wartortle's PokeDex mentions the fact that they are long-lived Pokemon---but this is sort of odd considering Wartortle is only the middle-form. Associating him with old-age seems kind of strange when you'd assume an old Wartortle would've simply become a Blastoise at that point. Pokemon Evolution has a lot of little holes like this, as sometimes it seems Pokemon naturally evolve as they get older, while other times it seems like Pokemon sporadically evolve in the wild and it's only when they're under the care of trainers that they're able to reach their full potential.

Wartortle's ears and tail I thought as a child were supposed to be feathers, but they're described as "fur"...perhaps it is meant to be a weird turtle-squirrel hybrid? These features help Wartortle swim faster and maintain its balance, so it's a nice functional aesthetic that I think most Pokemon should strive to have as opposed to pointless adornments and such. I just wish these features weren't dropped right after it evolved.

Unfortunately for Wartortle, it doesn't get a lot of spotlight in the franchise---Squirtle was explicitly shown to be superior to it in the television show when it competed against a team of Wartortle in a fire-fighting competition. Both May's and Tierno's Squirtle reached Wartortle, but May's only had a quick cameo during her return in Diamond and Pearl, and Tierno's was only Wartortle for one episode before evolving to Blastoise by his next appearance.


Blastoise - 009

Blastoise is the final form of Squirtle, and while it's unmistakably a member of the evolutionary line, as I said before it goes in sort of a different direction from Wartortle, ditching the long tail and curly ears for shorter ones. In fact, Wartortle's evolutionary direction made you think it might end up becoming a rather quick and graceful creature, whereas Blastoise gives off the impression of a powerful, slow-moving tank. Due to his ears and facial structure, I always thought Blastoise looked a bit like some kind of bulldog, and I wondered if this was intentional due to how its previous forms seemed to include mammalian elements.

Oh, and Blastoise is erroneously called the "Shellfish" Pokemon which is a mistake made by the localization team, as a more proper translation of his Japanese category would be simply "Shell", or "Carapace", if you want to sound more scientific.

Blastoise's most notable feature are the fact it now has water cannons popping out of its shell, which are very mechanical in nature. This is the first of many Pokemon who have such features that don't make much sense as being natural elements of a Pokemon, but while some of the other Pokemon are criticized for this, everyone seems to give Blastoise a pass and I rarely see people complain about Blastoise being equipped with weapons. I guess as one of the original Pokemon, it gets a pass, plus it's pretty cool even if you have to wonder where exactly these cannons came from and how they work. Blastoise can use its cannons as simply a weapon, but we've also seen it use the cannons as a mean to propel itself as they're capable of rotating around to suit the situation.

In Japan, Blastoise was the "third wheel" of the Kanto Starters, as he didn't get a game to himself till the Japanese Pokemon Blue, which ultimately became our Pokemon Red and Blue. I don't know why they went with Red and Blue instead of using Red and Green outside of Japan, but I wonder if Blastoise might be more popular among Western fans than Japanese fans due to this difference? When the Generation 1 remakes came around, The Pokemon Company seemed interested in getting the whole world on the same page, and thus worldwide went with Fire Red and Leaf Green, instead of creating a Water Blue for the international release.

Blastoise has remained a fairly popular Pokemon, and is often depicted as Charizard's "true rival" such as in the Johto League where Ash's Charizard battled Gary's Blastoise, a similar confrontation between their game counterparts in Pokemon Origin, and memorably on the box-art of Pokemon Stadium, although the original Japanese box-art showed no such encounter. I think nowadays, though, Blastoise hasn't lost any of his popularity, but I feel most folks like Venusaur and Charizard a bit more than him...but that's just my impression.


M009- Mega Blastoise

Mega Blastoise is easily my favorite of the Kanto Mega Starters, and I loved how Game Freak just went all-out with the water cannons and made them such a big part of his design. I think Game Freak are pretty good when it comes to mecha-style Pokemon, and I like seeing them embrace this with Mega Blastoise. In fact, I recall a Twitter post around the time Mega Blastoise was revealed specifically showing a mecha he resembled although I forgot what mecha that was. Mega Blastoise takes full advantage of his upgraded artillery by gaining Mega Launcher as an ability, which upgrades the power of "aura" and "pulse" moves (in Japan, these such moves all fall under the Hadou name), but it's a bit of a missed opportunity that his most well-known move, Hydro Pump, isn't powered up. Oh, and of course the misstep that the Mega Blastoise model doesn't actually fire out attacks from its cannon!

I love Pokemon and everything, but there's gotta be a better use of your time than writing paragraphs about each individual creature. You could write Harry Potter 8 with that amount of words.

A lot of people find them bland but Normal types were always my favorite. They were often very animalistic and had some of the deepest movepools in the game. I mean, most of the them can learn ice beam, thunderbolt and flamethrower and who doesn't love the idea of a rat shooting lasers out of its mouth like Raticate? xD
I feel like Normal types were at their strongest in the first few gens because Hyper Beam was on the attack stat, which most Normal types are best at. Then the type got nerfed by the special split. No more lulzy Tauros with Hyper Beam shenanigans haha

Furret is my favorite though, cutest mofo around.


The shiny looks like strawberry milk

jnWake said:

This is a cool idea and the write-ups are ace so far. To be honest I was hoping you weren't going to go in Pokedex order to make it more interesting tough (and to reach newer Pokemon sooner).

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JoeM86 said:

Great idea for a thread. Should at least give people a chance to not just dismiss certain designs. You should mix it up and not go in Dex order so that people don't just shift away. That makes it exciting, never know what's going on next.

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I thought about that, but I think it's better to go in order because I think it helps illustrate the progression when it comes to the designer's aesthetics, plus it might be confusing to those looking for the write-up on their favorite Pokemon if I jump around. Don't get me wrong though, there are plenty of Pokemon I'm eager to discuss and I kind of dislike having to start with the Kanto Starters everyone is fully aware of and respect.

PBalfredo said:

Seriously though, for all the jabs at Charizard being edgy or focus-tested-cool, I think the more disarming attributes of his design gets overlooked. For a fierce fire-breathing dragon, he's got a rather adorable potbelly. For a pokemon that uses Slash and gets Tough Claws when he mega-evolves, he's got little baby arms. It's the part of Charizard that keeps him from being too menacing. Charizard manages to successfully straddle the line of being too cute or too edgy. He's like a German Shepard that could just as easily be the family pet as it could be a viscous attack-dog.

Also, isn't Charmander's tail more of a gauge displaying how healthy it is, rather than being the sole force that keeps it alive? I've interpreted the pokedex entries as saying that its tail will only go out when it dies, rather than it will die if its tail goes out.

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You're correct in that Charizard does have a cute element to it. In fact, in Smash Brother threads, I've seen people often compare Charizard and Ridley to illustrate the fact the latter wouldn't look out of place among the cast despite the fact Charizard's design and aesthetic is vastly different. Ridley is an extremely feral, reptilian creature that has a very lanky and inhuman quality to it with sharp edges illustrating that it's not a friendly creature. Charizard on the other hand despite being a dragon, is much more rounded and circular which illustrates it's not necessarily something to fear, and has very emotive and expressive eyes that makes it easier to empathize with.

As for Charmander's tail, like I said, I believe it was the show which actually put forth the notion the tail going out would kill it---"Charmander. A flame burns on the tip of its tail from birth. It is said that a Charmander dies if its flame ever goes out"---is what the PokeDex says in Episode 11. It wasn't till the remakes that the game's PokeDex also implied this weakness, so it seems they adopted it, whereas before that it did seem that the tail was more of a monitor than a weakpoint. Crystal's PokeDex even says Charmander doesn't have to worry about getting a bit wet.

Piplup! :3



And Arceus.

ColtraineGF said:

Don't be hyperbolic.

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This picture actually reminds me that for every Poke'mon that makes it to the games, there are at least 5 more that are put away. I wonder how many of those get redesigned for the next game. By the way, I've noticed there are two marks beside 'Gen6' does that mean those individuals are working on new design right now?