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When is it ok for a franchise to die?
- Thread starter LegionAgent
- Start date
Benzychenz
Member
When the creators are ready to move on, it's best for that decision to be respected. Whether the story is finished, or they feel they've extracted the full potential of the game etc. Milking it beyond that point is almost always bad.
Or, when the developers are simply not able to deliver a good enough product. Don't let the franchise rot with mediocre entry after mediocre entry.
Or, when the developers are simply not able to deliver a good enough product. Don't let the franchise rot with mediocre entry after mediocre entry.
Even if they did leave that in, they could have never revisited that stinger and no one would care. Considering the places they've taken that plot since Halo 3, yeah it would have been better if they just left it alone.
WheelHoss1
Member
All I know is it ain't ok for Souls to be dead ... or even sleeping.
From an ideal perspective? When the game's primary concept has been fully explored & can't be expanded on enough, when the gameplay stops being fun, & when the games are still profitable. Even then, some series need a break more than anything else. Give it enough time & any concept'll become fresh once more.
Financially? I'd say after 3 minor financial failures, 2 decent financial failures, or 1 major financial failure. But fans & nostalgia mean any series can come back at any time. How else do we live in a world where a new Bubsy is a month away? With content that's copy & pasted from a Great Giana Sisters reboot from a few years back at that!
Financially? I'd say after 3 minor financial failures, 2 decent financial failures, or 1 major financial failure. But fans & nostalgia mean any series can come back at any time. How else do we live in a world where a new Bubsy is a month away? With content that's copy & pasted from a Great Giana Sisters reboot from a few years back at that!
Laieon
Member
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think when the inspiration dies out. Also, as mercy would put it, franchises never die.
LastGamer84
Member
When your focus is no longer on compelling gameplay, interesting narrative, and respect for your customers disappears.
James Scott
Banned
I think games that arent tied to its narrative never truly need to end.
No reason a competent company couldnt crank out a good Megaman game every few years.
Might be best for some games to be put on hiatus until the right tech, opportunity, and talent emerges.
No reason a competent company couldnt crank out a good Megaman game every few years.
Might be best for some games to be put on hiatus until the right tech, opportunity, and talent emerges.
But there are other good sonic games people like that aren't the first games. This is why" the this franchise should die" conversation goes nowhere, your reason for its death, is someone else enjoyment
So to provide a legitimate answer to your question
" when it stops making money" when folks loose interest, sales are going down, shut it down for a while. Or when something's story is over, because you might run it into the " when it stops making money" issue faster. Know when you are done with a thing, and just move on to a new thing.
Well...when there is no creative impetus to make it and make it well is when I'd think a series should go, provided it had such things going for it at some point.
Die is too strong a word though, new talent or refreshed talent may have an interest in things in the future. That's fine.
Die is too strong a word though, new talent or refreshed talent may have an interest in things in the future. That's fine.
I don't really understand this. MGS4 cleared enough up. It was time to kill it IMO. But whatever, they had lost me long ago with that story.
BassForever
Member
When it stops being profitable/there isn't a fanbase for it. The other reason is if its a story focused series and the guy writing the story doesn't want to finish the tale for whatever reason and won't share what he had planned with another writer.
I disagree, Halo 3's story felt rushed and left alot of plot holes (Let alone bad writing by committee). Let alone this Robot Chicken skiy explains the unlikelihood of the Covenant just calling it quits.
Certain series are like this for me, where narrative is the focus. After the 3rd Ace Attourney game, I was sort of done because that 3rd game ties things up so well.
After the third zero escape game I was done.
I don't need any more metal gear games, every sequel ruins the main characters lives even more.
After DANGAN Ronpa 2 and that anime that I didn't really like, I'm good on that series.
I didn't need a master chief Halo game after 3.
After the third zero escape game I was done.
I don't need any more metal gear games, every sequel ruins the main characters lives even more.
After DANGAN Ronpa 2 and that anime that I didn't really like, I'm good on that series.
I didn't need a master chief Halo game after 3.
Brewster123
Neo Member
It depends on the type of game really... If it is a story based game, it should end when the story ends. Otherwise, you get wierd situations where the story feels unnatural and tacked on (Ace Attorney: Spirit of Justice and, to a lesser extent, Apollo Justice are pretty good examples of this). If the series is more gameplay based, you should go as long as you have interesting game play ideas (That aren't too gimmicky and can be properly executed). As you said, Mario does a really good job with this. Sonic, in contrast, has struggled with new game play concepts.
Basically, don't just keep making games for the sake of making games (or money for that matter). A franchise is only as good as the creative minds behind it.
Basically, don't just keep making games for the sake of making games (or money for that matter). A franchise is only as good as the creative minds behind it.
After playing all the onimusha games on ps2 I thought it was time for a break. The 4th mainline one was the best gameplaywise in my opinion but I was done for sometime with the franchise. Now I think the break was way too long.
My point is: a franchise should never die but go on hiatus for sometime.
My point is: a franchise should never die but go on hiatus for sometime.
daTRUballin
Member
Or Microsoft.
Holy Order Sol
Member
Never. I want more of what I like and if a game is ass there's always a chance for the next one to be good.
MysticLeviathan
Member
When its original creators/the ones who made it the franchise it is are no longer involved. And I think its true for all forms of entertainment. Countless times weve seen a franchise of sorts lose its original creator or person who brought it to prominence and it just is no longer the same.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Sometimes this is completely left to interpretation and arbitrary though. Like Banjo Kazooie NB pales in comparison to Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo-Tooie, but people will act like the franchise has no sales potential when the other variable is that they didn't make an actual Banjo-Kazooie platformer that people wanted.
Metal Gear illustrates an interesting scenario- the technology to fully realize Kojima's vision of stealth gameplay clearly didn't arrive until well after his narrative peaked. I actually think MGS went out on its highest note, but can understand why narrative first franchise fans found it disappointing. How do you handle a situation where you are creatively inspired to continue innovating on the mechanical shell you've put in place for a franchise, but the narrative has clearly run its course? Spiritual successors like Bloodborne to Dark Souls seem like the best answer to me.
Gaiaknight
Member
when the story the creators wanted to tell has wrapped up or when there is no more story the developers want to tell in the games world. Example I love the Uncharted series but if we never get Uncharted 5 i would be ok with that cause 4 ended on a perfect way to end the series.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
I'd love a new Lunar or Phantasy Star game, but I have to admit that both series ended at a decent spot (ignoring the stuff that came out after Lunar:EB).
Costanza-san
Banned
Imo, when keeping it alive is actively harming or preventing new, original work from the same dev or publisher. So kind of hard to measure.
Pretty sure that was a call back to their other shooter Marathon
i think the reason why they never canonically tied the mega man series together is because it'd put a permanent cap on the OG series, which i'm sure they always want the option to go back to despite seeming dead as a doornail at the moment
but apropos to the subject... if anything the industry is too focused on iterating everything. i don't like the notion every good game should have a sequel. there's always core concepts to carry over to brand new stuff. as for when it's "ok" to call it a day? i think anytime is as long as you pull some shit like with half life or whatever
but apropos to the subject... if anything the industry is too focused on iterating everything. i don't like the notion every good game should have a sequel. there's always core concepts to carry over to brand new stuff. as for when it's "ok" to call it a day? i think anytime is as long as you pull some shit like with half life or whatever
Exploratory
Banned
When the series doesn't have anything new or interesting to give. It depends on the franchise. You could do new Mass Effect stories for 25 years just based on the scope of the series. Tons of planets, alien races, there's so much to explore. VS a game tied to a specific character and that characters conflict in a world that's not incredibly notable (MGS for example).
Soul of the Beast
Member
Dark Souls ended when the first game ends.
You Pay This Much
Member
Never.
Jubenhimer
Member
IMO, never. I sort of have a "no game left behind" philosophy. So I'd like to see as many IPs as possible active.
Square knows how to kill franchises and studios.
Starting with Sleeping Dogs, a good game killed because it sold poorly according to Square, Thief a beloved franchise who made the history of the stealth subgenre killed by a rushed reboot and finally Deus Ex, HR was a blast, MD was an ok game, but the development cost, business decision and the sales killed the last entry in the series and now we aren't getting a new Deus Ex.
Sales, it's all about sales, if your game flops the franchise is doomed, if you are lucky they can fund another game, but if this fails again, well, see you in 10 years from now.
Starting with Sleeping Dogs, a good game killed because it sold poorly according to Square, Thief a beloved franchise who made the history of the stealth subgenre killed by a rushed reboot and finally Deus Ex, HR was a blast, MD was an ok game, but the development cost, business decision and the sales killed the last entry in the series and now we aren't getting a new Deus Ex.
Sales, it's all about sales, if your game flops the franchise is doomed, if you are lucky they can fund another game, but if this fails again, well, see you in 10 years from now.
I think it actually depends on how the IP was built. Honestly, even though I like MGS V because I'm a Kojima fanboy, I don't think it should have happened. 4 had a pretty good seal the deal narrative. And I'd be okay with them announcing there would never be another Metal Gear. (Or making it possible that's something that will go unheard of for the next god knows how many years. Kid Icarus Uprising is a good example of this.
On the other hand, you have franchises such as Donkey Kong on a 2D platformer game, it took N64, Game Cube, and Wii to finally get it on the WiiU. But holy fuck if the wait wasn't worth it.
Ideally, to me, it has to be the right project, it shouldn't be rushed by street dates, or the studio trying to milk the franchise. Shame that this happens very rarely
On the other hand, you have franchises such as Donkey Kong on a 2D platformer game, it took N64, Game Cube, and Wii to finally get it on the WiiU. But holy fuck if the wait wasn't worth it.
Ideally, to me, it has to be the right project, it shouldn't be rushed by street dates, or the studio trying to milk the franchise. Shame that this happens very rarely
If your are talking about ME, I won't say EA is a saint... Hell, I feel horrible by acting as some sort of defender but lets be honest:
The IP became a PR nightmare, and it is known that the studio had trouble keeping itself together, wasting a lot of time and money to release a subpar product. It goes beyond "slightly disappointing".
I doubt ME is dead, but rather, there's no developer avaiable to work on it atm, since Montreal became Motive.
Still, you are not wrong, Dead Space is the best example of it.
Acidote
Member
I would've cared. I would have loved a sequel by Bungie.
Halo 4 still had something, but Halo 5 felt less like Halo to me than any other game before. Even than ODST (which a lot of you seem to love and I hate with the exception of the soundtrack). Yet I'm waiting for Halo 6 to be announced because I feel the itch once again and Destiny is not like it.
MisterGrey3000
Member
When it continues to fail over and over again despite numerous chances to succeed in some way.
When the creative folks behind the franchise find it unfulfilling and unexciting to keep it going.
When the IP is over 6-10 years old and you've completely wrung the core concept dry and can't do anything more with it besides repeat yourself.
At least those are the most logical and understandable reasons in book anyway.
Sad but true, especially when it's in the hands of a big cooperate entity.
Money comes first with these guys, and most of the time they don't care about staining the legacy of a beloved franchise for the sake of potential profit.
Like it's not a game series, but the Powerpuff Girls is probably the perfect example of this phenomenon.
This transgressive acclaimed cartoon show had a nice long 7 year run, and the original creatives behind it had exhausted almost every possible creative avenue that they could take with the core concept. Craig and co. were fine with the show's cancellation, they were done with it and wanted to move on.
But despite all of this, CN brought it back two times...once for a mediocre TV movie that no one remembers, and then again as a sort-of-kind-of continuation/soft reboot that's incredibly boring and derivative.
There was almost no good reason to bring the series back outside of keeping that sweet, sweet merchandising money flowing in.
When the creative folks behind the franchise find it unfulfilling and unexciting to keep it going.
When the IP is over 6-10 years old and you've completely wrung the core concept dry and can't do anything more with it besides repeat yourself.
At least those are the most logical and understandable reasons in book anyway.
Sad but true, especially when it's in the hands of a big cooperate entity.
Money comes first with these guys, and most of the time they don't care about staining the legacy of a beloved franchise for the sake of potential profit.
Like it's not a game series, but the Powerpuff Girls is probably the perfect example of this phenomenon.
This transgressive acclaimed cartoon show had a nice long 7 year run, and the original creatives behind it had exhausted almost every possible creative avenue that they could take with the core concept. Craig and co. were fine with the show's cancellation, they were done with it and wanted to move on.
But despite all of this, CN brought it back two times...once for a mediocre TV movie that no one remembers, and then again as a sort-of-kind-of continuation/soft reboot that's incredibly boring and derivative.
There was almost no good reason to bring the series back outside of keeping that sweet, sweet merchandising money flowing in.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Thats the point im making.
I personally love MGS4 and thought it should have ended there, definitely the mainline games at least.