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SneakyStephan · Jun 2, 2013

Eusis said:
All I've heard so far is that they have a built in 500 GB hard drive that can't be removed (this is undoubtedly going to be a problem in the long term) and you can attach USB hard drives too. Whether they go for proprietary USB hard drives is another question altogether.

It can't be removed? When did they say that?

Of all the hardware in computers, hard drives are by far the ones that will reliably crap out first, being a mechanical part and all.

I can't even imagine not being able to replace the hdd in my pc, it would be a ticking timebomb.

spwolf · Jun 2, 2013

JayDub said:
This thread was needed, Amirox. The only problem now is, publishers might require both ports (XB1 and PS4) to have DRM, because it doesn't make sense for one to have one and not the other. It helps against used game sales (which is a big thing for them) and piracy.

Sony might not require it, but they really should say "no, we do not allow this" to publishers.

this thread was made since it will not be possible to have same DRM for both systems, at all.

Because PS4 can be offline forever, there is no way to validate and/or disable used games like MS will do with XO.

So, nope, cant be the same really.

Iksenpets · Jun 2, 2013

I don't think anything they've said closes the possible loophole that while the PS4 itself is never required to be online, nothing is preventing publishers from requiring an internet connection for their particular game. I still think that, sans a major hit to their sales numbers, the big publishers (EA/Acti/Ubi) will enforce their own Xbonesque DRM measures on the PS4. The only difference will be that indie titles and first party titles will be DRM free.

Sorral · Jun 2, 2013

SneakyStephan said:
It can't be removed? When did they say that?

Of all the hardware in computers, hard drives are by far the ones that will reliably crap out first, being a mechanical part and all.

I can't even imagine not being able to replace the hdd in my pc, it would be a ticking timebomb.

This is what I found.

500GB sounds like a lot today -- but so did the 20GB unit in the original Xbox 360. The HDD there was, at least, replaceable. Can you do the same with its successor? Sadly, no. Hard drives in the Xbox One are non-user-serviceable, but Penello confirmed that the USB 3.0 port is there for external storage, which can be used for everything the internal storage can be used for.

Terrible idea it seems even though they allow the use of external hard drives. Issues with the HD may mean not being able able to replace it by yourself. Also, who knows what their security measures will be, the external HD may open a loophole somewhere.

Vespasianus · Jun 2, 2013

JayDub said:
Sony might not require it, but they really should say "no, we do not allow this" to publishers.

I doubt Sony would be willing to take that risk. The PS2 generation demonstrates that publishers are just fine with one console being overwhelmingly successful and the others being sideshows.

If either PS4 or Xbone is far more conducive to their interests, they might just line up behind that console and ensure that the other one is going to be far less successful.

All Sony has to do is ensure that their approach to the issue isn't quite as obvious a Microsoft's, and they will still be seen as the good guys. It was a good move for them to wait for Microsoft to take all the anti-DRM heat first before they announced their own position.

Mushroomer25 · Jun 2, 2013

If this is in fact true, I'm curious if it's going to result in some sort of gap between features between the system - I.E, something the ONE can do (thanks to the guarantee of an internet connection) that the PS4 cannot as a result. Obviously the main thing would be advertisements, but I wonder if the user experience between the two will change as a result of this decision.

SneakyStephan · Jun 2, 2013

Sorral said:
This is what I found.

Terrible idea it seems even though they allow the use of external hard drives. Issues with the HD may mean not being able able to replace it by yourself. Also, who knows what their security measures will be, the external HD may open a loophole somewhere.

External storage is irrelevant, if the drive craps out and can't boot your console is a dud... (unless you send it off for a month or longer to some shitty expensive RMA I assume...)
Even if they had an extra 4 GB flash memory on there as boot partition you still have to install the games on xbox one (like you do on PC) so it would still be useless.

Brashnir · Jun 2, 2013

Iksenpets said:
I don't think anything they've said closes the possible loophole that while the PS4 itself is never required to be online, nothing is preventing publishers from requiring an internet connection for their particular game. I still think that, sans a major hit to their sales numbers, the big publishers (EA/Acti/Ubi) will enforce their own Xbonesque DRM measures on the PS4. The only difference will be that indie titles and first party titles will be DRM free.

And since indie titles won't generally be on-disc products, it kinda doesn't matter for them. That would leave us with first-party and whichever publishers decide not to do this shit. (which might include smaller pubs like Atlus and D3 in Japan. Bethesda and 2K haven't shown much inclination to be DRM dicks in the past, so maybe they'd be western examples - maybe.)

If that's the case, enough of these games will probably come out to eventually make a purchase of a PS4 worthwhile for me, but not for years down the line.

SneakyStephan said:
External storage is irrelevant, if the drive craps out and can't boot your console is a dud... (unless you send it off for a month or longer to some shitty expensive RMA I assume...)
Even if they had an extra 4 GB flash memory on there as boot partition you still have to install the games on xbox one (like you do on PC) so it would still be useless.

Yet another thing that sucks, but I think it all ties back in to the DRM thing. If you're going to be able to play games entirely off the HDD, that makes HDD hacks a possible way for pirates to compromise the system, much as DVD-drive hacks were used to compromise previous consoles, including 360. Allowing people to replace the HDD is probably seen as a big piracy risk by MS.

famousmortimer · Jun 2, 2013

This has nothing to do with DRM. NOTHING! I keep posting over and over and I'm running out of energy. The sony DRM DOES NOT REQUIRE ONLINE to operate. There's nothing to celebrate here and there's nothing to fear here in regards to Shu's quote. The quote about online accounts is the same thing that has existed on the PS3, 360, Wii, PS2, PSP, Vita, and Gamecube. Games like Defiance, Final Fantasy XI, PSO... they all require you to go online and make an account with those deveopers to play the game. All shu is saying here is that they will still do that and was dismissing the idea that they would every force people to do that with everygame. But, again, THIS IS NOT THE DRM IN WHICH WE ARE FEARFUL OF COMING INTO FRUITION

Amir0x · Jun 2, 2013

famousmortimer, please stop having a meltdown. Most people already know this, but there has been plenty of confusion expressed over this issue - as evidenced by this thread - to warrant illumination.

famousmortimer · Jun 2, 2013

I will not stop melting down!

But, yeah, I guess I'm just worried about a bunch of conclusions being jumped to that aren't true and when people learn they are untrue they're going to be pissed. The fault on this entirely rests with sony though. While I understand why they are waiting until e3 to clarify things that of course allows people to take bits of information and get completely the wrong idea. Clear statements from the start would have avoided this entire issue.

androvsky · Jun 2, 2013

famousmortimer said:
I will not stop melting down!

But, yeah, I guess I'm just worried about a bunch of conclusions being jumped to that aren't true and when people learn they are untrue they're going to be pissed. The fault on this entirely rests with sony though. While I understand why they are waiting until e3 to clarify things that of course allows people to take bits of information and get completely the wrong idea. Clear statements from the start would have avoided this entire issue.

I can't feel too sorry for Sony since they're being gently shepherded into the best viral marketing campaign they've ever been near. All they have to do to cash in is send the right tweet during the E3 conference.

Brashnir · Jun 2, 2013

famousmortimer said:
I will not stop melting down!

But, yeah, I guess I'm just worried about a bunch of conclusions being jumped to that aren't true and when people learn they are untrue they're going to be pissed. The fault on this entirely rests with sony though. While I understand why they are waiting until e3 to clarify things that of course allows people to take bits of information and get completely the wrong idea. Clear statements from the start would have avoided this entire issue.

I may have missed your previous posts on this. What are people going to be pissed about other than what's already being speculated?

famousmortimer · Jun 2, 2013

There have been a fair number of posters who think this either means no used game DRM or that the DRM is left up to the publisher. And both of those things may or may not be true, we don't know yet... but it doesn't have anything to do with *this issue. So for people celebrating that Sony isn't blocking used games they may be in for some bad news next monday.

Hopefully not! But maybe...

Brashnir · Jun 2, 2013

famousmortimer said:
There have been a fair number of posters who think this either means no used game DRM or that the DRM is left up to the publisher. And both of those things may or may not be true, we don't know yet... but it doesn't have anything to do with *this issue. So for people celebrating that Sony isn't blocking used games they may be in for some bad news next monday.

Hopefully not! But maybe...

Oh. well then I guess you and I are of a similar mind. I'm still waiting for the other, "we're all fucked" shoe to drop and hoping to be wrong.

googleplex · Jun 2, 2013

JayDub said:
This thread was needed, Amirox. The only problem now is, publishers might require both ports (XB1 and PS4) to have DRM, because it doesn't make sense for one to have one and not the other. It helps against used game sales (which is a big thing for them) and piracy.

Sony might not require it, but they really should say "no, we do not allow this" to publishers.

Its the down side if having an open platform. I'd rather Sony let developers and publishers do what they want. Just boycott,the publisher that push stupid DRM.

Evolution_1ne · Jun 2, 2013

famousmortimer said:
There have been a fair number of posters who think this either means no used game DRM or that the DRM is left up to the publisher. And both of those things may or may not be true, we don't know yet... but it doesn't have anything to do with *this issue. So for people celebrating that Sony isn't blocking used games they may be in for some bad news next monday.

Hopefully not! But maybe...

ok, can you fucking stop with this shit, if you have anything definitive to say then fucking say it, if not then keep it shit to yourself. The constant maybe's or maybe not's post in every single thread are getting really annoying, especially when ALL of them are just retreads of the same damn point, or to put it simply WE GET IT, we have a whole freaking mega thread thanks to you for people to remain "cautiously pessimistic" through the spamming of various inbox's of exec's to the many different publishers/platform holders within this industry, you've done your part. Now I appreciate what your doing and applaud your efforts in spreading awareness, but either tell us something we don't know or STFU

please, thank you

and sorry for being so blunt

Rich! · Jun 2, 2013

Evolution_1ne said:
ok, can you fucking stop with this shit, if you have anything definitive to say then fucking say it, if not then keep it shit to yourself. The constant maybe's or maybe not's post in every single thread are getting really annoying, especially when ALL of them are just retreads of the same damn point, or to put it simply WE GET IT, we have a whole freaking mega thread thanks to you for people to remain "cautiously pessimistic" through the spamming of various inbox's of exec's to the many different publishers/platform holders within this industry, you've done your part. Now I appreciate what your doing and applaud your efforts in spreading awareness, but either tell us something we don't know or STFU

please, thank you

and sorry for being so blunt

Dude. Take a seat. Chill out.

I've never known anything in gaming in 20 years to rile up people so much. Maybe Sega leaving the industry, that could come close.

shinra-bansho · Jun 2, 2013

Mr Swine said:
And I guess that publishers would go to Xbone if Sony said that. It's a dangerous game and if Xbone proves to be successful I guess that more publishers will go that route

The only scenario in which that would occur is in the event of the XB1 having a PS2 like dominance over the global gaming market.

Which is a highly unlikely scenario for several reasons.

Even then publishers were often multiplatform.

Third parties can't rely on that scenario occurring. Their development, marketing and distribution costs would not be even remotely manageable without such a situation occurring. And they likely don't want to be beholden to a single platform holder either.

The idea that publishers would simply pick up and leave if the PS4 doesn't have a system wide DRM implementation is really nonsense.

Moneyhats2k5 · Jun 2, 2013

richisawesome said:
Dude. Take a seat. Chill out.

I've never known anything in gaming in 20 years to rile up people so much. Maybe Sega leaving the industry, that could come close.

Probably because this affects everyone.

Rich! · Jun 2, 2013

Moneyhats2k5 said:
Probably because this affects everyone.

Of course. But it's like world war 2 up in this bitch.

~~Hasan~~ · Jun 2, 2013

famousmortimer said:
This has nothing to do with DRM. NOTHING! I keep posting over and over and I'm running out of energy. The sony DRM DOES NOT REQUIRE ONLINE to operate. There's nothing to celebrate here and there's nothing to fear here in regards to Shu's quote. The quote about online accounts is the same thing that has existed on the PS3, 360, Wii, PS2, PSP, Vita, and Gamecube. Games like Defiance, Final Fantasy XI, PSO... they all require you to go online and make an account with those deveopers to play the game. All shu is saying here is that they will still do that and was dismissing the idea that they would every force people to do that with everygame. But, again, THIS IS NOT THE DRM IN WHICH WE ARE FEARFUL OF COMING INTO FRUITION

even if the PS4 has DRM. i am ok with that. the fact that if playstation 4 doesnt require online activiation every 24 hours is a huge plus for me and most gamers.

MS killed the original Xbox server. one day they will do the same with the Xbox one. when that happened to your games you bought ? yeah useless. throw them.

if the PS4 games doesn't require that " and it doesn't look like it does", i would pick the PS4 over the Xbox one any day even if the PS4 doesnt play used games at aLL.

its a matter of prespective really its not even worth talking much about it.

Nealand Liquor · Jun 2, 2013

richisawesome said:
Of course. But it's like world war 2 up in this bitch.

Well it kinda is in a way isn't it?

MasLegio · Jun 2, 2013

JayDub said:
This thread was needed, Amirox. The only problem now is, publishers might require both ports (XB1 and PS4) to have DRM, because it doesn't make sense for one to have one and not the other. It helps against used game sales (which is a big thing for them) and piracy.

Sony might not require it, but they really should say "no, we do not allow this" to publishers.

nope, if anything this will build incentive for people to want pirated products and for groups to hack the consoles making pirated content available.

As per usual it is the regular customer that will be punished by DRM.

HenryGale said:
I've been told that the Xbox One will not require checks to play a game offline.

The games will require authentication and online checks due to their installed nature and ability to be played off the disc. It's not out of the question to assume that the disc also authenticates the console, so if the internet is down or unavailable for over 24-72 hours (however long their checks are) you will be able to play a game with the Disc still in the console.

Hope that's true anyway.

change it to 24-infinity hours and it will be a good solution

Online check requirement for installed content, if server is not available insert disc as a backup check.

--------------

So....
to lighten things up a bit. What character in Game of Thrones is Sony in all of this?

or

main-qimg-a2ecc030ec27f37a2a9372090caea931

or?

Stay tuned for E3 to find out more

yurinka · Jun 2, 2013

lostones said:
I'm assuming you're a global expert, has to be a tedious job

Don't need to be an expert, seems pretty clear that as now PS4 is getting better feedback, and the best X1 selling points are US only which is the main MS market :
http://www.gamespot.com/twitter-battle/xbox-vs-ps4/
http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/05/31/xbox-one-vs-ps4-the-results-ign-versus

HenryGale said:
I've been told that the Xbox One will not require checks to play a game offline.

The games will require authentication and online checks due to their installed nature and ability to be played off the disc. It's not out of the question to assume that the disc also authenticates the console, so if the internet is down or unavailable for over 24-72 hours (however long their checks are) you will be able to play a game with the Disc still in the console.

Hope that's true anyway.

No, MS said that all games will need an online activation before the mandatory install in the HDD, and after that will need daily online authentication even if you're playing single player.
They need it to charge you a fee when trying to install it in other console when using other XBL account. This is how they make sure you don't rent, lend or sell your game.

Poona · Jun 2, 2013

Beer Monkey said:
Always remember that Sony had first party online passes while MS never has. Neither have a clean nose. MS does not have a history of pushing DRM more.

I'd rather online passes if it meant I didn't have a pay wall for online multiplayer.

SlipperyFishes · Jun 2, 2013

MasLegio said:
wow
really guys?
really?

you just want to watch it all burn do you?
scorched earth, if you cant have it surely they cant have it...

I have been seeing this all the time since 22st of may. The somehow illogical philosophy that if one does A then the other also must do A and not B or C or D or etc....
because that surely is logical.....
and to make it even more logical, the other will be doing it even worse. Not only will it go one step further, it will make your TV explode and burn your house down as well?
just because it just cannot be better than your favourite brand no matter what...
you will not allow it..

Implying I haven't owned every PlayStation console released (aside from Vita). Maybe some of us aren't blind to the truth that Sony are quiet because they're scrambling on how to present their 'plans'

AOC83 · Jun 2, 2013

planetsmasherx1 said:
Maybe some of us aren't blind to the truth that Sony are quiet because they're scrambling on how to present their 'plans'

Sony isn´t quiet. They have made quite clear that the PS4 won´t require an internet connection. End of story.

MasLegio · Jun 2, 2013

AOC83 said:
Sony isn´t quiet. They have made quite clear that the PS4 won´t require an internet connection. End of story.

seems it does not matter since they are clearly intent on spinning nothing into something and take focus away from MS

wizzbang · Jun 3, 2013

DC1 said:
Let's keep your fingers crossed.
Only a few games on the PS3 were Region locked by the publisher. I doubt that Sony would change their policy.

I believe literally only 1 game. We'll see - I thought the PS2 was actually region locked?

BlazingDarkness · Jun 7, 2013

Can I just bump this thread again because now that MS have officially shit the bed regarding online requirement everyone seems to believe that Sony are doing the same. THEY AIN'T.

suedester · Jun 7, 2013

Indeed, internet access is required to enforce Microsoft's DRM policies so Sony clearly aren't going that route, thank fuck. Microsoft's announcement is understandably freaking everyone out but people need to calm down.

Evolution_1ne · Jun 7, 2013

you know who I feel sorry for in all this, all those poor bastards who have no idea what's going on, and don't pay attention to gaming news, and are going to blindly buy the xbone just cause it's the new one, they are in for one hell of a treat

Liamario · Jun 7, 2013

BlazingDarkness said:
Can I just bump this thread again because now that MS have officially shit the bed regarding online requirement everyone seems to believe that Sony are doing the same. THEY AIN'T.

Doesn't answer the question of their DRM requirements though- if any.

graywolf323 · Jun 7, 2013

BlazingDarkness said:
Can I just bump this thread again because now that MS have officially shit the bed regarding online requirement everyone seems to believe that Sony are doing the same. THEY AIN'T.

was thinking of this thread when I saw people saying oh well Sony is going to do it too in the Microsoft thread

Zombie James · Jun 7, 2013

Liamario said:
Doesn't answer the question of their DRM requirements though- if any.

Hard to phone home without an internet connection.

coldfoot · Jun 7, 2013

Zombie James said:
Hard to phone home without an internet connection.

You can do it by automated phone, just like how you would activate your copy of Windows without internet.

SpaceNun · Jun 7, 2013

JayDub said:
Sony might not require it, but they really should say "no, we do not allow this" to publishers.

It could be very tricky to say no.

SpaceNun · Jun 7, 2013

BlazingDarkness said:
Can I just bump this thread again because now that MS have officially shit the bed regarding online requirement everyone seems to believe that Sony are doing the same. THEY AIN'T.

There are a certain number of people who NEED this to be true I think. I thought they made it clear this always online was never needed and that is indeed a major plus even if I don't use the 'feature'. Edit: Srry double post

SilentFlyer · Jun 7, 2013

I guess we should wait until monday and hope things will be clear whether Sony is implementing DRM or not. I find no reason to argue right now. Just hope for the best and prepare for the worst (just in case).

flash ban · Jun 7, 2013

Brad Grenz said:
MS doesn't use online passes because they charge everyone $60 a year to play games online.

this

HenryGale said:
I've been told that the Xbox One will not require checks to play a game offline.

The games will require authentication and online checks due to their installed nature and ability to be played off the disc. It's not out of the question to assume that the disc also authenticates the console, so if the internet is down or unavailable for over 24-72 hours (however long their checks are) you will be able to play a game with the Disc still in the console.

Hope that's true anyway.

what's to stop you from installing the game on a second machine and using the disc authentication in one and online authentication in the other?edit:

yurinka said:
Don't need to be an expert, seems pretty clear that as now PS4 is getting better feedback, and the best X1 selling points are US only which is the main MS market :
http://www.gamespot.com/twitter-battle/xbox-vs-ps4/
http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/05/31/xbox-one-vs-ps4-the-results-ign-versus

No, MS said that all games will need an online activation before the mandatory install in the HDD, and after that will need daily online authentication even if you're playing single player.
They need it to charge you a fee when trying to install it in other console when using other XBL account. This is how they make sure you don't rent, lend or sell your game.

Oh, I see.

Evolution_1ne said:
you know who I feel sorry for in all this, all those poor bastards who have no idea what's going on, and don't pay attention to gaming news, and are going to blindly buy the xbone just cause it's the new one, they are in for one hell of a treat

Indeed, a wonderful gooey treat.

Protome · Jun 7, 2013

Evolution_1ne said:
you know who I feel sorry for in all this, all those poor bastards who have no idea what's going on, and don't pay attention to gaming news, and are going to blindly buy the xbone just cause it's the new one, they are in for one hell of a treat

I never thought about that. I wonder if those people will just sell the console back if it annoys them enough? Could Microsoft end up increasing trade-ins of their console in their attempt to reduce trade-ins of games?

Probably not, but it's fun to speculate.

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