-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
LTTP: Zelda BOTW. Didn't Love It But It Taught Me A Lot
- Thread starter Durrzerker
- Start date
The Xtortionist
Member
Progression is something a sequel could definitely work on. To get the most enjoyment out of BotW you really have to fully enjoy doing things for the activities themselves rather than the reward. Spirit Orbs for upgrading health and stamina are fine rewards in theory, but they're used absolutely everywhere in shrines, and eventually feel mundane as a result. Most chests aren't worth getting excited over (save for the rare ultra-powerful weapon like that one Edge of Duality, or an even rarer piece of armor). Even if Link's moveset is unchanging outside of the champion skills, more ways to progress, such as finding items to enhance global weapon damage or durability, would have been nice.
MrCookiepants
Member
A lot of people spent too much time fucking around in this game. If you want to fight Ganon, fight him. Don't spend another 30 hours looking for korok seeds and then complain that the game lost its lustre in the end.
jipewithin
Member
Thanks for your post! It took me a while to get into this game because it really just threw you in without much hand holding. I really like all this exploring and sense of adventure. However I agree rewards are pretty mundane after awhile. I hope they take BOTW engine and make next zelda also open worldish but take best parts of Majoras Mask&OoT&WindWaker. More dungeons, more gating, slightly smaller world but keep the sense of adventure still. Maybe that there are 3 dungeons at start where you can go and after each one you could unlock one more dungeon with item you get from that dungeon, like Hammer, Hookshot or Gauntlets, so in total it could be 6+last one. Add in shrines, korok seeds and other side quests (like in majoras mask) and oh boy it would be awesome.
I kind of liked the sensation of solitude in the game. Sometimes music being absent was refreshing.
I also don't agree that your character (Link) doesn't progress. He does, but not in the way you mean. I think maybe Nintendo could have put a bit more emphasis on this, both to flesh out the story and Links character, but i did feel Link progressing by gradually regaining his memory. Obviously it's a different kind of progression, but never the less.
Maybe a Zelda like Twilight Princess is more your thing, it's basically Gamecube's swansong (and Wii's killer launch game, not unlike BoTW on WiiU/Switch) and it got a HD release on WiiU, but it's a much more traditional Zelda, where you get a companion talking to you, giving feedback and story elements, and where you gradually obtain new abilities and tools. It also has (many) real (big) dungeons etc. You also get to play as a wolf, which is a bit more visceral and might be up your alley.
As for the Switch, i do not suggest SnakePass, unlike Max Criden. I hate the fact that you have to start over the entire level, every time you drop off a platform (meaning you lose every item you collected and actually have to start from scratch). This makes is needlessly frustating and tedious. The first few levels are easy, but soon get much harder, and that's when i say, fuck this shit. I've got better things to do.
I played "I am Setsuna" right after BoTW. It's a nice, but shallow RPG. It'll give you maybe 30 hours or so of play time. When you get halfway through the game, you learn some attacks (a combo between two party members) that ends the normal encounters with one strike. So this is an attack that comes in handy at times, it also makes you lazy. But it's obviously a lot more story driven than Zelda. I can also recommend Lego City Stories in case you didn't play it yet. It's actually an amazing game, because my kids (4 & 5 y/o) can play it without me helping, even most of the missions, but on the other hand, it's also perfectly fine to play as an adult.
Mario+Rabbids is supposed to be good, as is Splatoon2, but i haven't played those. Since this is your first Nintendo console, that means you never played Mario Kar 8, and i can highly recommend that game. It's the best Mario Kart by far. If you like playing as a brute/berserker/... maybe you can find something in ARMS, though i personally feel it's a mediocre game at best.
Or just wait for Xenoblade 2... it's coming december 1st. If it's anything like the first (and NOT that abomination that is X) than you're in for a treat.
I also don't agree that your character (Link) doesn't progress. He does, but not in the way you mean. I think maybe Nintendo could have put a bit more emphasis on this, both to flesh out the story and Links character, but i did feel Link progressing by gradually regaining his memory. Obviously it's a different kind of progression, but never the less.
Maybe a Zelda like Twilight Princess is more your thing, it's basically Gamecube's swansong (and Wii's killer launch game, not unlike BoTW on WiiU/Switch) and it got a HD release on WiiU, but it's a much more traditional Zelda, where you get a companion talking to you, giving feedback and story elements, and where you gradually obtain new abilities and tools. It also has (many) real (big) dungeons etc. You also get to play as a wolf, which is a bit more visceral and might be up your alley.
As for the Switch, i do not suggest SnakePass, unlike Max Criden. I hate the fact that you have to start over the entire level, every time you drop off a platform (meaning you lose every item you collected and actually have to start from scratch). This makes is needlessly frustating and tedious. The first few levels are easy, but soon get much harder, and that's when i say, fuck this shit. I've got better things to do.
I played "I am Setsuna" right after BoTW. It's a nice, but shallow RPG. It'll give you maybe 30 hours or so of play time. When you get halfway through the game, you learn some attacks (a combo between two party members) that ends the normal encounters with one strike. So this is an attack that comes in handy at times, it also makes you lazy. But it's obviously a lot more story driven than Zelda. I can also recommend Lego City Stories in case you didn't play it yet. It's actually an amazing game, because my kids (4 & 5 y/o) can play it without me helping, even most of the missions, but on the other hand, it's also perfectly fine to play as an adult.
Mario+Rabbids is supposed to be good, as is Splatoon2, but i haven't played those. Since this is your first Nintendo console, that means you never played Mario Kar 8, and i can highly recommend that game. It's the best Mario Kart by far. If you like playing as a brute/berserker/... maybe you can find something in ARMS, though i personally feel it's a mediocre game at best.
Or just wait for Xenoblade 2... it's coming december 1st. If it's anything like the first (and NOT that abomination that is X) than you're in for a treat.
The problem with that kind of thinking is that most, if not all, of my favorite moments in the game have been completely optional. I'd argue BOTW's most memorable sequences are entirely unrelated to Ganon or the Divine Beasts. In fact, that's kind of the problem: the main objective, the meat of your journey, isn't all that compelling. I don't really want to defeat Ganon, as you put it. So you're stuck between a fairly weak main quest by Zelda's standards, and some sublime optional content that's unfortunately spread too thin.
I don't want to sound negative since I think BOTW is a damn great game and definitely one of those "better than the sum of its parts" cases, I just don't think "you're fucking around too much" is a good defense for its shortcomings when the game itself doesn't give you enough incentive to complete the main quest. There's no real sense of urgency, a narrative hook or a cool dungeon/boss to overcome. The gameplay loop is still pretty satisfying by itself, I just wish the payoff was better. Which is why I have high hopes for the sequel.
rsnl
Neo Member
I just bought a Switch but currently no intentions of buying BOTW.
I used to like Zelda (Links Awakening and then OOT) but the series became very stale for me and I would only come back for something fresh.
Unfortunately BOTW went in the direction of open world emergent gameplay, and I really think Zelda would have benefited from a tighter 3D Metroidvania approach, with harder combat. I really don't like games where it's up to me to make the game so it's a pass for me for now.
I used to like Zelda (Links Awakening and then OOT) but the series became very stale for me and I would only come back for something fresh.
Unfortunately BOTW went in the direction of open world emergent gameplay, and I really think Zelda would have benefited from a tighter 3D Metroidvania approach, with harder combat. I really don't like games where it's up to me to make the game so it's a pass for me for now.
D.Lo
Member
Yep, good OP.
It's not for you if you want more story stuff or levelling or complex combat systems. In a sense probably best to look up how the game plays before buying it in that case, but hey trying new things is good too. I try RPGs and dungeon crawlers every now and then to try and understand the appeal, before realising I despise anything to do grinding for levelling or loot
Durrzerker
Banned
I didn't really fuck around though. That was my problem. I didn't really feel like I had any incentive to explore a lot because any weapons I found would break pretty quickly and I never really felt an overwhelming need to get more hearts or stamina because I could just cook to gain them when I really needed to. Exploration for its own sake being a theme is perfectly legitimate and I'm not trying to knock it at all but it does not appeal to me personally.
If I'm going to explore a game I need to be rewarded with either experience pointd, loot, or story. BOTW offers its rewards in a more abstract way which I totally respect but I was pretty tired of just wondering around before I had spent 5 hours in the game. From there I pretty much just did the shrines I stumbled onto and the Divine beasts.
All in all I only got 15 korok seeds, 13 hearts for the master sword, the master sword, the 13 captured memories, and the divine beasts/ 'true ending.'
Didn't really find anything beyond that and I never really felt the urge to either. My total playthrough was 25 hours.
Yep, good OP.
It's not for you if you want more story stuff or levelling or complex combat systems. In a sense probably best to look up how the game plays before buying it in that case, but hey trying new things is good too. I try RPGs and dungeon crawlers every now and then to try and understand the appeal, before realising I despise anything to do grinding for levelling or loot
Oh I know I was taking a risk getting the game but sometimes it is worth doing that especially since I was going to be stuck doing night shifts with nothing else to really do anyway. A lot of what I did not like about BOTW I do enjoy in smaller doses which is why I really thought I would love the game. What I realized through playing it and I would not have learned if I had not bought the game is that there are certain things such as exploration and puzzles that I enjoy in moderation but actually sour me on a game if the concentration is too high.
Whatever I think of the game it is very unique and while I do always research games before I buy them that doesn't necessarily mean I was prepared here because there isn't a whole lot like breath of the wild out there. It was going to be a plunge no matter what.
I feel you couldn't be further off with wanting Zelda to get a tighter Metroidvania feel. The way they went is the right way, and especially if you felt the series getting stale. Basically BoTW could be a superb basis to build the next generation of Zelda games on. Sure, it has it's shortcomings (not going to call it flaws), but there is just so much gameplay to enjoy and still room for improvement (bring back actual dungeons, maybe not make them mandatory,or like the dungeons in BoTW, chose when you do them, bring back some of the old weapons like the slingshot, but make them fresh, like the bullettime archery in BoTW...). Maybe they cut a bit too much from traditional Zelda gameplay in their quest for something refreshing, but they most definitely followed the right path for the series.
Sygma
Member
Nice writeup OP
Since it's your first Zelda game, luckily enough you skipped Twilight Princess - other not very interesting titles (including the forever overhyped ocarina of time) but by essence, Zelda has always been about finding the master sword, recovering the triforce power and then wrecking stuff at the end ... not throughout and certainly not earlier than that either
The whole journey is just running around, getting new items that ll allow progression (like in metroid) and use them in dungeons. It never was big on story, cutscenes, or a sense of progression in terms of action. Botw was a nice change in the formula which really was getting old since Twilight Princess, and gave almost all the powers at the introduction in the grand plateau which was never done in other games. Same goes for the physical engine
The most action packed Zelda are Majora's Mask / Oracle of Seasons - Ages (ty Capcom), and welp, you ll do the same movements over and over and over and over until the big bad eventually die. That being said Botw in hard mode isn't exactly what I'd call a light action game
Anyway, it just taught other devs except Rockstar how to do open world right. On a tablet
Since it's your first Zelda game, luckily enough you skipped Twilight Princess - other not very interesting titles (including the forever overhyped ocarina of time) but by essence, Zelda has always been about finding the master sword, recovering the triforce power and then wrecking stuff at the end ... not throughout and certainly not earlier than that either
The whole journey is just running around, getting new items that ll allow progression (like in metroid) and use them in dungeons. It never was big on story, cutscenes, or a sense of progression in terms of action. Botw was a nice change in the formula which really was getting old since Twilight Princess, and gave almost all the powers at the introduction in the grand plateau which was never done in other games. Same goes for the physical engine
The most action packed Zelda are Majora's Mask / Oracle of Seasons - Ages (ty Capcom), and welp, you ll do the same movements over and over and over and over until the big bad eventually die. That being said Botw in hard mode isn't exactly what I'd call a light action game
Anyway, it just taught other devs except Rockstar how to do open world right. On a tablet
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I agree with you about the progression. I didn't like how they gave you all the items you'd need to complete dungeons right from the get go. It removes the uniqueness of each level from the design and makes the game feel more like a Dark Souls title than anything else. Like shit, on my third fight with Calamity Ganon (he beat my ass a few times, don't judge) I was almost able to beat him without booping his lasers back at him. All I did was shoot arrows and slash him when he landed.
I also miss the feel of old school Zelda dungeons. I thought it was neat that each Divine Beast has a quirky little mechanism about them that helped you solve the puzzles, but as a whole, the designs were underwhelming. I miss the days when dungeons were intricate and confusing, dungeons that made you backtrack to get a small key you missed earlier (I'm looking at you, Forest Temple. Fuck you. I spent a half an hour looking for the key that was ABOVE THE ENTRANCE).
I thought the story was beautiful and emotional. The captured memories add a really nice touch to the narrative and the characters. This incarnation of Zelda, in particular, is my new favorite because of her vulnerableness and her struggles. She has actual depth here other than "oh I'm a magical princess!" As a long time fan of the series, it's cool as fuck.
The world is gorgeous and fun to explore, and I like the amount of freedom it provides the player, but MAN is it a pain to farm for crafting materials. Some of the shrines are a bitch to get to, as well, and I know it's supposed to add more of a challenge to the puzzle solving aspect of the game, but I wish they had invested more time into, you know, actual Zelda dungeons instead of little mini runs with smelly old monks inside.
Music is A+ though. Really loved how they incorporated old themes of the series into the game with new imaginings. The Rito one was especially cool and I'm glad they brought it back.
Not my favorite Zelda, but also not my least favorite. 7/10.
I also miss the feel of old school Zelda dungeons. I thought it was neat that each Divine Beast has a quirky little mechanism about them that helped you solve the puzzles, but as a whole, the designs were underwhelming. I miss the days when dungeons were intricate and confusing, dungeons that made you backtrack to get a small key you missed earlier (I'm looking at you, Forest Temple. Fuck you. I spent a half an hour looking for the key that was ABOVE THE ENTRANCE).
I thought the story was beautiful and emotional. The captured memories add a really nice touch to the narrative and the characters. This incarnation of Zelda, in particular, is my new favorite because of her vulnerableness and her struggles. She has actual depth here other than "oh I'm a magical princess!" As a long time fan of the series, it's cool as fuck.
The world is gorgeous and fun to explore, and I like the amount of freedom it provides the player, but MAN is it a pain to farm for crafting materials. Some of the shrines are a bitch to get to, as well, and I know it's supposed to add more of a challenge to the puzzle solving aspect of the game, but I wish they had invested more time into, you know, actual Zelda dungeons instead of little mini runs with smelly old monks inside.
Music is A+ though. Really loved how they incorporated old themes of the series into the game with new imaginings. The Rito one was especially cool and I'm glad they brought it back.
Not my favorite Zelda, but also not my least favorite. 7/10.