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When is it ok for a franchise to die?

L

LegionAgent

Member
Title says it all. It's a question that poped up in my mind after yesterday's Mega Man 30th anniversary panel. I wasn't really expecting anything, but the spark of hope is always there, even when you know fully well that there's 99% chance that your expectations won't be met. But then, the question popped up. Is it really necessary for the franchise to continue?

Don't get me wrong, Mega Man is THE franchise for me. I love it since I can remember, and to this day I constantly play Mega Man games, classic, X, Zero, BN, etc, and a new game that plays like either MMX or Zero, that fills the gap between both series, is my all time wish, but then I thought: do I really want them to keep milking the series to the point that I start to hate it? Like a wise man once said, you either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain. I would hate to see my favorite franchise turn into a horrible cash grab that does nothing to improve the formula and ends up ruining it.

I think not all franchises can or should be what Mario, for example, has become, where each generation gets it's "new" take on the series and keeps it going. The most notable example of when things go south that I can think of is Sonic, where the first games are great, then it just throws stuff to the wall and see what sticks until they had to go back to the roots.

Mega Man has already given us a lot, and it's mainline gamplay has influenced new games just enough so that I can get a partial fill when I crave for a new game with it's style. Azure Striker Gunvolt, for example, has helped filling the gap, even if it's not the same. Even then, I don't think it's all black and white, and I would die for a new game. It's contradictory, I know, but that's why I wanted to discuss this topic with you.

So, GAF, when do you think is it ok for a franchise to stop if ever?

If anything, my only true wish is for the series to be complete, something it clearly hasn't with all the loose ends still there, and then they can retire it. Until then, I'll keep waiting for the Blue Bomber to comeback, for everlasting peace.
 
J

Jonneh3003

Banned
It's ok to stop when you've depleted your potential. Mega Man stings as the franchise has continuously evolved over time and it's sad to see it just wither away, especially when Legends 3 was so close.

I believe Dark Souls 3 started to show a few cracks in the imagination department and at times it felt like a best of album for the series. I love Dark Souls but it was dignified to end it at 3.
 
T

TheDinoman

Member
I think one good example is when you have a story focused series and the creator/director/author at some point wants to end it.

I'm mainly referring to Mother/Earthbound here. Unlike series like F-Zero which Nintendo abandoned to the wolves after low sales, Mother went out peacefully, because Shigesato Itoi wanted Mother 3 to be the end of it all.
 
K

KZXcellent

Member
If the people making the games in the franchise want to keep making entries then good for them. I respect that. If the creators want it to end, usually if it's story focused then that's fine.

For me I don't think a franchise ever really needs to die. If I get tired of one I'll just distance myself from it.
 
D

DataBased

Member
Interesting question! I think if the story is wrapped up and there is nothing new to add to the mechanics I suppose?

I also think if the series has been stagnant for a while. Before Origins I would have not missed Assassin's Creed going away for a while, despite being a big fan if its first 4 or so games.
 
J

J_ToSaveTheDay

Member
Whenever its creators are not creatively motivated to work on it anymore.

EDIT: let me specify that by saying creators I do NOT specifically mean the original creators. Anyone who is tasked with creating within the franchise -- but only if they're creatively motivated to do so. Not a guarantee that the game will be good, but it better not just be mandated by a publisher and handed off to a who-gives-a-fuck-team. IMO, that's exactly what happens when the most shitty games with good franchises come out, like "Final Fantasy: All The Bravest" on mobile -- no creative motivation detectable from a consumer endpoint, just pure corporate motive.
 
B

Burbeting

Banned
Once it feels that the passion is gone. When you only make new games just to make more money out of it. Passion is something you can just feel while playing.
 
S

ScientificPizza

Banned
I don’t think ending = dying

There are times when a franchise should end. Gears 3 and Mass Effect 3 are good examples of stories ending and the franchises probably should have ended with them

I don’t think that would constitute them as being *dead*, it’s just that those stories have been told
 
N

NinjaCoachZ

Member
1. If the story/developer's vision has been completed/fulfilled

2. When a series has already peaked and slowly starts to stagnate, but is still decent in quality (i.e. hasn't quite reached the point where it's begging to be put down, but it's clear that there isn't much left to do with it)

3. I'm fine with it when a series hasn't had a new entry in a long time (like say, 5-10 years at least), but the last games were good. Like when I think of all those awesome series from the PS2 era we haven't seen in a while, even though they haven't had a new game in ages I'm glad they're at least remembered on a high note.
 
S

Spman2099

Member
From the perspective of a fan...

Either when a series feels complete (something like Uncharted could end now and I would be satisfied with that), or when the series has lost its way and there is no chance that it is going to get back on track (something like the Dead Rising series that would clearly be better off dead is an excellent example).
 
N

NeoZeedeater

Member
Any time is okay for a franchise to die (although it's more frustrating when a story-based game is left on a cliffhanger). This industry doesn't need to be so obsessed with sequels.
 
Danjin44

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
When developers forget what made the series great in the first place. Dead Space 3, Thank you EA.

Also games with continuous story. What makes good story is at some point it needs to end.
 
Bridges

Bridges

Member
When the vision has been met (so a sequel lacks purpose) or the series loses track of its vision.

F-Zero has ended (for now) because no one at Nintendo has a vision for it. In their heads they've met the vision already in prior games.
A game like Dead Rising 4 should end because the developers have lost sight of the original vision (in this case mostly due to being a direct developer among other things).

Basically if you can't think of a good excuse to make a sequel then don't.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
MGS4-Big-Boss-Final-Cigar.jpg

Okay, nice spot to end it.

640

should have ended it before but okay...

640

Too late.
Click to expand...
.
Metal Gear was my favorite franchise, I would rather it had vanished after 4 or PW then to go out like it did.
 
N

nick_b

Member
Once you're out of good ideas. End on a high note. I agree with the Dark Souls 3 example. But don't kill it off. Just shelve it until someone has an idea for it that would evolve it further than just another entry. This might never happen but tech and creative abilities and ideas grow over time so there is always a possibility.

Just don't wring it dry like CoD and AssCreed and the like. I'd rather have new and brilliant ideas than tired rehashes. That said I do value remasters. I don't get to play every new release on every console so remasters and Virtual Console releases are nice.

I'd never officially "end" any series but at least stop with a satisfying conclusion.
 
A

Aters

Member
If the story is completed, why not? We are getting new IPs. Some old franchises must die for new things to be created.
 
D

DMiz

Member
I think it's really interesting that you brought up Mega Man, because, like you, I would also really like having another game in any of the subsidies, at this point.

I think what's important to consider in your question, besides just considering the nature of "ending" and "dying", is also to have a firm definition of "franchise."

Mega Man as a franchise is difficult to encapsulate because, even though the games largely revolve around power acquisition, shooting, and (maybe) jumping in some form, Mega Man is also an icon - particularly, Capcom's icon.

The development teams at Capcom actually did very well in evolving Mega Man to incorporate several different genres - RPG, action-adventure, platformer - in ways that kept Mega Man relevant, while preserving his core mechanic of using buster and acquiring powers.

That's why the 'death' of Mega Man is more painful than, say, the way Sonic stagnates. Where Sonic Team has failed to really evolve Sonic in meaningful ways and in other directions, Mega Man has always actually done well in finding new genres to exploit both his image and his core game play mechanic.

I think that's partly why it's hard to say "good bye" to Mega Man. 1) His franchise is not limited to a game play mechanic that hasn't gotten old, since history has shown that the teams at Capcom are capable of moving him into other genres successfully; and 2) Mega Man is a video game icon, with a very established history and is well-beloved by a good number of people who played video games growing up. While his relevance in the modern day is sadly diminished - among other Capcom IPs that used to carry more significant weight in the industry - he remains one of the initial 'stars' of video games that we remember fondly. We don't want him to go away, and not necessarily the type of game that he represents or has represented.
 
S

Stopdoor

Member
Sometimes I'm baffled when I see people want something like Jak & Daxter to return - they're all great to decent games in their own way, but they're clearly products of their time and there's not really any urgent need to fill in much more of their backstory. Seems much more respectful to let it stay as it is rather than append some weird reboot or spin on it that a new sequel would inevitably do.

Series like Gears of War and Halo are also kind frustrating to watch because they can never really resolve their conflicts, being endlessly based around war. They're chained to their characters when a near reboot with new characters would feel so much more authentic.
 
M

Madness

Member
When the original devs are no longer in control of it, the narrative is over, two bad games in a row etc. Basically when you 'finish the fight'.
 
T

TriggerShy

Member
SatoAilDarko said:
If the narrative is complete.
Click to expand...

I feel the same here. Even with franchises that don't have much of a narrative, they should be allowed to end if the developers feel they did all they want to do. I might miss their gameplay, but I'd at least respect the decision. This may be too optimistic, but I feel that even if a series goes in a direction I don't like, there will always be hope that it will ignite my interest again. Because I think that as long as it continues, there will be people who care, and as long as people care, it can make a comeback. I don't want a franchise to end because of mismanagement or low sales or anything else like that. What I want is for a franchise to give a lot of good experiences for people, even if I'm no longer one of them, though this has yet to happen to me. I think every franchise deserves to end the best way it can, but even if it doesn't I want it to be because the developer is done.
 
D

Death Penalty

Member
Definitely want to end it on a high note. The Dark Souls 3 example is so good that it doesn't really require much more explanation from me. End your series before it's out of steam, don't force yourself to make a game when you're running out of ideas, and close the book leaving your fans wanting more. If people are still begging for a new one when your series is over, you've done a good job.
 
S

sn00zer

Member
When by and large the potential of the series has been well explored or met. For example Megaman series has gone forwards and backwards through 2D action platforming and most of the ideas have met their potential, howevee the Legends series never felt like it quite got to what it wanted to so it should have been cotinued in some way.

This is why I think a lot of franchise from PS1 era are ripe for making returns because a lot of cool ideas that have not been completely explored were held back by the hardware.
 
M

Mr-Joker

Banned
PSYGN said:
When it's not profitable.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much the only correct answer as there is no point in create new games in the franchise if sales just aren't there to support it.

A franchise ending for creative purpose is very rare and isn't permanent.
 
Duchess O'Death

Duchess O'Death

Member
When people start buying the games because of the dev studio name instead of the franchise name. Then they can safely create new IP's.

Like FromSoftware, Naughty Dog, Rockstar, and CDPR. They nailed a genre and can make new IP's that are just as successful if not more than their known franchises.
 
Alexander DeLarge

Alexander DeLarge

Member
Mr-Joker said:
This is pretty much the only correct answer as there is no point in create new games in the franchise if sales just aren't there to support it.

A franchise ending for creative purpose is very rare and isn't permanent.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with this... Up to a point. I'd argue Square Enix took on the responsibility of completing the narrative when they decided to split Deus Ex Mankind Divided in two. I hope the narrative isn't left hanging because of low sales (because of the bullshit surround the game like augment your pre-order, the microtransactions/people feeling it was incomplete).
 
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