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TJP · Oct 17, 2017

marvelharvey said:
I did indeed. They're similar but Putnam is my preferred track. That being said, I'm aware that my memory of Gingerman could be tainted due to the author acting like a bit of a twat.

From what I read on the rF2 forum, the author stated he hasn't seen a cent from URD which may be a reflection of his attitude. To be fair it is the one only track URD have sold and with no way to test before buying, I would be amazed it sold in high numbers.

The author has not committed to updating the track to DX11.

One of my hopes with the rF2 revival by S397 is for tracks to be on-par with the physics, including mods. I wish more dev's showed as much care as iRacing, Sector 3 & Reiza do with their tracks. The very latest releaes such as pCARS 2 has mistakes and omissions with tracks!

/pet peeve.

marvelharvey · Oct 17, 2017

TJP said:
From what I read on the rF2 forum, the author stated he hasn't seen a cent from URD which may be a reflection of his attitude. To be fair it is the one only track URD have sold and with no way to test before buying, I would be amazed it sold in high numbers.

I think I made my purchase before the move to URD and he was angry before that. Either way, URD have had quite the fall from grace. I've more faith in Star Citizen these days.

TJP · Oct 17, 2017

marvelharvey said:
I think I made my purchase before the move to URD and he was angry before that. Either way, URD have had quite the fall from grace. I've more faith in Star Citizen these days.

As an owner of everything URD have made for rF2 and AC, I 100% agree. Shame too as many of the URD mods have the best 3D models and the physics are usually very solid.

I've no idea why Aless has fallen off the map but he has and it sucks as there has been hardly any updates in ages for both rF2 and AC. RSS who make currently mods just for AC have produced 3 cars that are better to drive than Kunos and it's their commitment and level of support I was hoping for with URD.

TJP · Oct 17, 2017

Steam link: http://store.steampowered.com/itemstore/365960/browse/?filter=all

Sector 397 Octobe update: https://www.studio-397.com/2017/10/gt3-power-pack-release/

To support the GT3 pack we have also released updates for both the DX11 and DX9 builds. Note that the build number for multiplayer changed too, so you will have to update your dedicated servers!

Build Changelog:

Added: An extended visual damage model featuring a combination of dents, scratches and cracks on the bodywork of cars, which has been implemented on the GT3 pack.
Added: New window and headlight glass shader that produces more realistic reflections. All five GT3 cars use it.
Added: Controller Profiles for Thrustmaster T-GT, T-GT Ferrari F1 Addon, TS-XW, TS-XW with Ferrari F1 Addon.
Added: Updates to the CPM model.
Fixed: Various small fixes to the no rain zone code that prevents rain from entering closed cockpits.
Fixed: All controller profiles default inputs are now assigned to JOY1.
Fixed: Bumped the rFactor 2 version for multiplayer compatibility to 1109 because of the new visual dents that required changes to the multiplayer protocol.

Mascot · Oct 17, 2017

Darkdeus said:
Have you tried this pp filter for the rift? I think it makes the game look a lot better in the rift. The exposure doesn't go crazy and the lighting seems less flat. There's no auto exposure issues either that I remember.

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/natural-graphics-mod.4551/

Forgot to mention, I did have a closer look at this and (as thought) I had already installed it. For some weird reason though I had two instances of JSGME running, both in conflict with each other, so the filter wasn't being applied properly. It also explains why Monza was permanently stuck in winter even after deactivating - or so I thought - that particular mod. Anyway, the rogue copy of JSGME has been deleted and everything is running fine again now. It looks terrific in VR.

So for AC my VR filters are sorted, I'm slowly getting to grips with Content Manager, my Buttkicker anti-rattle damping works like a charm, I've got Crew Chief coming through my Rift headphones, I factory reset my Yamaha amp to reactivate the centre channel that had gone AWOL.... the only missing piece of the jigsaw is getting Assetto Corsa to play proper 5.1 audio out on the track. This one is puzzling me. The amp tells me it's getting a 5.1 signal from the game, there's full audio in the menus, but as soon as I'm on the track there's silence. The amp still displays all six speakers, but no sound comes from any of them, sub included. No other game has this problem, it's totally unique to Assetto Corsa.

I've verified the Steam files, I've tried OEM unmodded sounds (I thought it might be a Fonsecker thing), I've adjusted in-game audio settings... nothing. The only way to play at the moment is via optical cable (instead of my preferred DP-HDMI link) but this only outputs 2.1 which I then have to up-convert via Pro Logic to simulated 5.1, losing directional audio in the process along with the ability to hear where sounds are originating from, which is obviously very useful when driving.

Any suggestions would be very gratefully received..!

Edit: I'm almost convinced that a rogue sound mod has caused this issue, but am puzzled as to why verifying Steam files doesn't kill it. I'm starting to think a clean reinstall might be required.

ValfarHL · Oct 17, 2017

Mascot said:
Forgot to mention, I did have a closer look at this and (as thought) I had already installed it. For some weird reason though I had two instances of JSGME running, both in conflict with each other, so the filter wasn't being applied properly. It also explains why Monza was permanently stuck in winter even after deactivating - or so I thought - that particular mod. Anyway, the rogue copy of JSGME has been deleted and everything is running fine again now. It looks terrific in VR.

So for AC my VR filters are sorted, I'm slowly getting to grips with Content Manager, my Buttkicker anti-rattle damping works like a charm, I've got Crew Chief coming through my Rift headphones, I factory reset my Yamaha amp to reactivate the centre channel that had gone AWOL.... the only missing piece of the jigsaw is getting Assetto Corsa to play proper 5.1 audio out on the track. This one is puzzling me. The amp tells me it's getting a 5.1 signal from the game, there's full audio in the menus, but as soon as I'm on the track there's silence. The amp still displays all six speakers, but no sound comes from any of them, sub included. No other game has this problem, it's totally unique to Assetto Corsa.

I've verified the Steam files, I've tried OEM unmodded sounds (I thought it might be a Fonsecker thing), I've adjusted in-game audio settings... nothing. The only way to play at the moment is via optical cable (instead of my preferred DP-HDMI link) but this only outputs 2.1 which I then have to up-convert via Pro Logic to simulated 5.1, losing directional audio in the process along with the ability to hear where sounds are originating from, which is obviously very useful when driving.

Any suggestions would be very gratefully received..!

Edit: I'm almost convinced that a rogue sound mod has caused this issue, but am puzzled as to why verifying Steam files doesn't kill it. I'm starting to think a clean reinstall might be required.

Checked your audio settings while in game, from the menu on the right? Make sure the audio is going through the correct device.

Mascot · Oct 17, 2017

ValfarHL said:
Checked your audio settings while in game, from the menu on the right? Make sure the audio is going through the correct device.

Thanks, I'll give that a go. It's weird because the UI/launcher sounds are all there, just nothing when out on the track.
Just checking the official AC forums and it seems to be a VERY common problem with lots of suggestions but no definitive solution.

Mascot · Oct 17, 2017

ValfarHL said:
Checked your audio settings while in game, from the menu on the right? Make sure the audio is going through the correct device.

Fuck a duck - this only went and did the trick! I just had to select the audio driver in the sound app. Boom!

I owe you a pint, Valfar. Many thanks!

Mascot · Oct 18, 2017

Three in a row, but WTF.

Here's a through-the-lens look at pCARS 2 in VR on the Pimax 8k HMD that should be rolling out early next year for backers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjkGcX-GeJ8

Looks bloody great! No sure how existing GPUs will cope though.
That clarity with negligible SDE a 200 degree FoV too. Blimey.

More details here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pimax8kvr/pimax-the-worlds-first-8k-vr-headset?ref=329384&token=cc143a74

and GAF thread

Betta Lines · Oct 18, 2017

If someone told me that was footage from a Rift or Vive (before the camera pulls out to show the hardware), I'd believe them. Perhaps there are hints at increased clarity, but it's very difficult to get a gauge on that as the person filming is moving the headset itself really close to the menu and cockpit details, rather than viewing at a typical distance. And the increased FOV is not apparent, as it's also difficult to gauge how close the camera is to the lens, and what kind of crazy headset movement they're doing. To demonstrate this properly, they should have the headset fixed on a stand, next to a Rift/Vive set up in the same way. Then you could hold a very small camera up to the lenses at a fixed distance, and rotate it like an eyeball so you can actually see the true edges of the FOV.

It's a terrible video. >_<

TJP · Oct 18, 2017

Reports on the Studio 397 forum indicate for some users up to a 33% loss in frame rate with the new DX11 build of rF2 when using the new GT3 cars versus the DX9 build. One culprit appears to be shadows which when turned to low, offers a significant fps boost.

I've not seen the issue myself however I do get better fps in DX9.

ValfarHL · Oct 18, 2017

Mascot said:
Fuck a duck - this only went and did the trick! I just had to select the audio driver in the sound app. Boom!

I owe you a pint, Valfar. Many thanks!

Haha, happy to help mate.

You could help me shave two seconds around Spa, lol.

Betta Lines · Oct 18, 2017

TJP said:
Reports ... indicate ... some users ... 33% loss in frame rate with ... rF2 ..... One culprit appears to be shadows ...

whatyearisit.jpg

*Guaraná · Oct 18, 2017

i tried the gt3 pack with oculus rift and it was one of the best experiences i had since I got the VR. I'm really enjoying the work the studio 397 is doing. I just think rf2 now needs more tracks, the best ones are third parties conversions from the original rf.

the link for that video is here. but it's in portuguese, so you guys might not enjoy it.

Betta Lines · Oct 18, 2017

*Guaraná;252382332 said:
i tried the gt3 pack with oculus rift and it was one of the best experiences i had since I got the VR. I'm really enjoying the work the studio 397 is doing. I just think rf2 now needs more tracks, the best ones are third parties conversions from the original rf.

the link for that video is here. but it's in portuguese, so you guys might not enjoy it.

That's good to hear. Were you getting a locked 90fps output in your headset in that video? I have similar specs to your PC and I'm not even close. It's constantly hitching, and it doesn't even hold 90 if I drive that track by myself.

Mascot · Oct 18, 2017

Betta Lines said:
If someone told me that was footage from a Rift or Vive (before the camera pulls out to show the hardware), I'd believe them. Perhaps there are hints at increased clarity, but it's very difficult to get a gauge on that as the person filming is moving the headset itself really close to the menu and cockpit details, rather than viewing at a typical distance. And the increased FOV is not apparent, as it's also difficult to gauge how close the camera is to the lens, and what kind of crazy headset movement they're doing. To demonstrate this properly, they should have the headset fixed on a stand, next to a Rift/Vive set up in the same way. Then you could hold a very small camera up to the lenses at a fixed distance, and rotate it like an eyeball so you can actually see the true edges of the FOV.

It's a terrible video. >_<

It's not a great video but the increase in definition/lowering of SDE was immediately apparent to me. Obviously you can't check the FoV easily, but I've no reason to doubt their claims as this will easily be measurable.

Here's a through-the-lens comparison video which highlights the differences between current HMDs and the Pimax (take it with a pinch of salt, but...):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aHIsPSzmng

terrible · Oct 18, 2017

Mascot said:
Three in a row, but WTF.

Here's a through-the-lens look at pCARS 2 in VR on the Pimax 8k HMD that should be rolling out early next year for backers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjkGcX-GeJ8

Looks bloody great! No sure how existing GPUs will cope though.
That clarity with negligible SDE a 200 degree FoV too. Blimey.

More details here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pimax8kvr/pimax-the-worlds-first-8k-vr-headset?ref=329384&token=cc143a74

and GAF thread

I'm guessing nothing short of SLI 1080 Ti's would run the game at that resolution in VR? That resolution bump would do wonders for immersion and your ability to see things in the distance though. The future looks bright. I would imagine at that resolution only the most stubborn people could stick to triple screens.

Mascot · Oct 18, 2017

terrible said:
I'm guessing nothing short of SLI 1080 Ti's would run the game at that resolution in VR? That resolution bump would do wonders to immersion and your ability to see things in the distance though. The future looks bright. I would imagine at that resolution only the most stubborn people could stick to triple screens.

Durante has some thoughts about performance requirements in the GAF thread.

Betta Lines · Oct 18, 2017

Mascot said:
It's not a great video but the increase in definition/lowering of SDE was immediately apparent to me. Obviously you can't check the FoV easily, but I've no reason to doubt their claims as this will easily be measurable.

Here's a through-the-lens comparison video which highlights the differences between current HMDs and the Pimax (take it with a pinch of salt, but...):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aHIsPSzmng

I don't doubt their claims, I just doubt how effective it will be as an overall experience. There are major challenges and tradeoffs in designing an HMD in this way - ones that Valve, Oculus and Sony decided to avoid.

terrible said:
I'm guessing nothing short of SLI 1080 Ti's would run the game at that resolution in VR? That resolution bump would do wonders for immersion and your ability to see things in the distance though. The future looks bright. I would imagine at that resolution only the most stubborn people could stick to triple screens.

Resolution is one stat. The effectiveness of a VR system is the combination of hundreds, maybe thousands, of factors. Resolution is significant, but it is affected by the design choices and calibration of all the other parts of the hardware and software. This is apparent even across the current headsets. The Vive and Rift have identical resolution, but the Rift is noticeably sharper, both in the centre and towards the edges, due to some subtle differences in their optics/display design decisions. The PSVR is a lower resolution, but is actually capable of a higher image quality than the Vive or Rift in some ways.

If you were able to apply '8K' to the Rift while maintaining all its other hardware specifications as they are today, then yes, that would be an awesome leap forward in clarity - but that is not what the Pimax headset is. It's a completely different design, with a complex set of challenges and tradeoffs, and one that might not deliver a significantly better experience than the Vive or Rift (and might even be worse in some areas).

Mascot · Oct 18, 2017

That's the spirit!

Betta Lines · Oct 18, 2017

Mascot said:
That's the spirit!

If you're looking for a hype man, I'm just a phone call away!

GET PUMPED YO

But srsly... I am glad it exists, and I'm excited to see it. The early impressions have been reasonably positive, so fingers crossed. If they can deliver some improved fidelity in the centre plus a big jump in FOV, that could lend itself particularly well to sim racing.

terrible · Oct 18, 2017

Betta Lines said:
Resolution is one stat. The effectiveness of a VR system is the combination of hundreds, maybe thousands, of factors. Resolution is significant, but it is affected by the design choices and calibration of all the other parts of the hardware and software. This is apparent even across the current headsets. The Vive and Rift have identical resolution, but the Rift is noticeably sharper, both in the centre and towards the edges, due to some subtle differences in their optics/display design decisions. The PSVR is a lower resolution, but is actually capable of a higher image quality than the Vive or Rift in some ways.

If you were able to apply '8K' to the Rift while maintaining all its other hardware specifications as they are today, then yes, that would be an awesome leap forward in clarity - but that is not what the Pimax headset is. It's a completely different design, with a complex set of challenges and tradeoffs, and one that might not deliver a significantly better experience than the Vive or Rift (and might even be worse in some areas).

Yeah I guess I'm just imagining a Rift with a higher resolution screen and less god rays. I don't know anything about the tech really and I've only ever used my Rift. I haven't tried a Vive or PSVR or anything else.

What are the actual trade offs with the Pimax though? Like potential motion blur, tracking issues, and stuff like that? From the previews it has less god ray issues and that would be my biggest worry since they kill image clarity on the Rift in some situations.

Mascot · Oct 18, 2017

Betta Lines said:
If you're looking for a hype man, I'm just a phone call away!

GET PUMPED YO

But srsly... I am glad it exists, and I'm excited to see it. The early impressions have been reasonably positive, so fingers crossed. If they can deliver some improved fidelity in the centre plus a big jump in FOV, that could lend itself particularly well to sim racing.

Yeah, we are in the infancy of something that could be truly great. Exciting times ahead!

marvelharvey · Oct 18, 2017

I'd like to recommend two pieces of kit.

Firstly and more cheaply, the Ricmotech sequential-shift mod for the TH8A. I purchased my TH8A a couple of years ago, but barely used it, as I was disappointed with the general toy-like-feel of the unit. This Ricmotech mod has completely changed that though and now makes the level feel like it's connected to a real gearbox/piece of machinery.

Secondly, and more importantly, the Obutto Racing Cockpit. Until purchasing this rig, I never appreciated just how important a solid base for your wheel was. Previously I was using a wheelstand, which had some lateral travel. Not knowing any better, I tolerated the movement but since installing a solid rig, I realised what a handicap a wobbly wheel can be. There have been a number of iRacing situations that I've found myself in this month (most months to be fair) that need rapid countersteer and there's no way that my old wheelstand could have remained composed with the forces I needed to apply. With a rock solid frame though, I have much much more confidence in catching slides and have already avoided 4-5 crashes that would have occurred with my old stand.

But for me, the coup de grace that finally pushed me towards this particular rig was the ability to quickly switch between driving and standard keyboard-mouse gaming. I simply push/pull the keyboard and I'm done.

Now the weakest link is my setup is the Clubsport Pedals V2. After praising them so much post DFGT, they too have begun to feel cheap and toy like. This recent shit was expensive though (new CSW V2.5 and DSD button box), so the Heusinkveld pedal set will have to come next year! $$$$$$$

Although, perhaps I'll put that towards a Pimax 8K? That 200 degree FOV sure is tempting!

Big Takeover · Oct 18, 2017

Great idea to give a few recommendations from the stuff you have.

I too have managed to amass plenty of junk, so I'll try and do a similar post this week. I'll keep it to non Captain Obvious stuff.

Betta Lines · Oct 18, 2017

terrible said:
Yeah I guess I'm just imagining a Rift with a higher resolution screen and less god rays. I don't know anything about the tech really and I've only ever used my Rift. I haven't tried a Vive or PSVR or anything else.

What are the actual trade offs with the Pimax though? Like potential motion blur, tracking issues, and stuff like that? From the previews it has less god ray issues and that would be my biggest worry since they kill image clarity on the Rift in some situations.

It's mostly speculation at this point until we see the final product, but having angled displays and a very wide FOV presents many challenges for maintaining image quality. As a guess for the optics... there could be poorer clarity towards the sides (various forms of aberration), there could be a smaller sweet spot for focus, there could be reduced binocular overlap, there could be IPD adjustment limitations. The '8K' headset is 2560x1440 per eye which, when used to produce a 200 degree FOV might not be as significant a step up in image quality as some are hoping. The use of LCD means lower contrast, but they are claiming to have the same motion response as OLED due to the low persistence backlighting. So motion blur shoudn't be a problem, and nor should tracking, as it uses SteamVR tech.

But let's assume the hardware is pretty great and all the potential optical problems are solved - you're still left with the demands of running the thing. 2560x1440x2@90Hz might not seem that crazy when decent GPUs can already do higher render targets for VR, but I suspect that aliasing would be more noticeable across this kind of FOV, and that you'd need to run plenty of AA/supersampling to make it truly deliver on its potential for 'better image quality than current headsets'. I think you still have to expect to something that is significantly more demanding than the Vive or Rift - it's surely going to be tough to run demanding sims like PC2 and iRacing, which are already a struggle. And bear in mind it won't be able to use the Rift's ASW to help improve 45fps VR. SteamVR's reprojection is not as effective, and far more noticeable. Judder is generally more noticeable in peripheral vision, so reprojection might be even more jarring on Pimax than Vive; the need to hold 90fps might be even more important. VR sim racing doesn't give us much peripheral vision right now, so we've yet to experience the full effect of a world juddering past us at 200mph.

paskowitz · Oct 18, 2017

marvelharvey said:
Now the weakest link is my setup is the Clubsport Pedals V2. After praising them so much post DFGT, they too have begun to feel cheap and toy like. This recent shit was expensive though (new CSW V2.5 and DSD button box), so the Heusinkveld pedal set will have to come next year! $$$$$$$

Although, perhaps I'll put that towards a Pimax 8K? That 200 degree FOV sure is tempting!

I've found that if you replace the springs on the CSP v2s and the damper on the brake, you can significantly upgrade its feel. Throttle just needs a slightly stiffer spring. Can't fix the clutch but IMO it's ok.

TJP · Oct 18, 2017

Betta Lines said:
whatyearisit.jpg

Yeah I know but perhaps the old, resource hungry graphics engine made for DX9 hasn't improved all that much with the DX11 rewrite. Add Yebis post processing on top of gmotor 2.5 and it is no surprise some users are having issues.

I'm having a blast with the new GT3 cars - BoP seems about right and each car interiors and exteriors look fantastic. Sounds are great and the physics are great presuming you enjoy rF2.

marvelharvey · Oct 19, 2017

paskowitz said:
I've found that if you replace the springs on the CSP v2s and the damper on the brake, you can significantly upgrade its feel. Throttle just needs a slightly stiffer spring. Can't fix the clutch but IMO it's ok.

Do you have any suggestions for the brake pedal's spring and damper?

Big Takeover said:
Great idea to give a few recommendations from the stuff you have.

I too have managed to amass plenty of junk, so I'll try and do a similar post this week. I'll keep it to non Captain Obvious stuff.

That would be cool. I've been on a hardware binge lately and have found that reading about new sim equipment releases some endorphins.

TJP · Oct 19, 2017

I'm really surprised at how resource hungry rF2's GT3 cars are. Running 19 AI at the not-Suzuka track I'm getting sub 60fps at sections of the track, even using the default graphical settings with PP off.

My CPU+GPU combo runs AC, pCARS 2 (before refund!), R3E & AMS (naturally) all without issue irrespective of the graphical settings and grid size at a minimum 60fps. The benchmark for AC at maximum settings across the board averages out at 122fps..

At this rate I'll have to limit myself to hotlapping with the GT3 class or have a grid size of 10 cars!

Anyone else have the GT3 pack for rF2?

Mascot · Oct 19, 2017

TJP said:
pCARS 2 (before refund!)

I didn't realise that you'd also refunded pCARS 2 mate.

What's your criteria for rebuying it - price point or bug fixes? I was thinking the other day that I'd rebuy it today in its current state if I saw it for £20, but then I asked myself why. I'm not one to hop between several different sims anyway and Assetto Corsa is giving me all I crave right now. I've got ~70 distinct circuits with probably 200 ribbons and a great choice of cars (both of which are frequently being added to), physics, FFB, audio and visuals that I'm more than happy with, great VR performance, and rock-solid stability. I cannot remember the last time the game crashed during normal operation.

I kind of miss variable weather and proper ToD, but those aren't enough by themselves to justify the purchase. And why play a buggy game with so many niggly little issues? The reports of white flashes in VR trouble me, as does the similar reports about retina-burning brightness of dashboard lights at night. And that's ignoring the stability issues and logic failures that seem rampant.

It's a weird one and I'm really in two minds about it. I was greatly looking forward to pCARS 2 for two years and then when it finally arrived I just found it a colossal disappointment. I guess I believed the assertions that this would be a stable, polished and thoroughly-tested product at launch, but it does feel rushed, undercooked and incomplete to me. I really do think I'd be better off waiting a few more months before rebuying even if it halves in price overnight. I think I'd find it just too frustrating at the moment, and a much lesser overall experience than Assetto Corsa.

TJP · Oct 19, 2017

Mascot said:
I didn't realise that you'd also refunded pCARS 2 mate.

What's your criteria for rebuying it - price point or bug fixes? I was thinking the other day that I'd rebuy it today in its current state if I saw it for £20, but then I asked myself why.

I kind of miss variable weather and proper ToD, but those aren't enough by themselves to justify the purchase. And why play a buggy game with so many niggly little issues? And that's ignoring the stability issues and logic failures that seem rampant.

It's a weird one and I'm really in two minds about it. I was greatly looking forward to pCARS 2 for two years and then when it finally arrived I just found it a colossal disappointment. I guess I believed the assertions that this would be a stable, polished and thoroughly-tested product at launch, but it does feel rushed, undercooked and incomplete to me. I really do think I'd be better off waiting a few more months before rebuying even if it halves in price overnight.

I test R3E & I am lucky to know how hard it is for a dev team to release a bug free game or add features that users request all the time. I am painfully aware R3E is far from a complete sim and has its share of omissions (e.g. tyre pressures, TOD, weather) and issues (aging graphics, inconsistent AI, low userbase number). R3E is being worked on by a team of 9 people and has improved greatly despite many uphill battles. It has a long way to go to be 'feature complete' and I'm sure Sector 3 will get there. The following is not a SMS bashfest; it's my honest take in pCARS 2.

SMS are a well funded & quite large studio compared to Reiza, S397 and Sector 3 but small in comparison to Turn10, PD and Playground Games. I wanted pCARS 2 to combine state of the art graphics with physics & FFB that are on-par or better than rF2, AC, R3E or AMS. I'm tired of great physics etc and sub-par graphics.

Given the pre-release promises by SMS and media coverage that SMS had learnt from the mistakes of pCARS and upped their QA testing I was hopeful pCARS 2 would be GTR 2 for the modern sim racer. The people involved with WMD were largely adamant the bug filled mess of pCARS, TD: Ferrari, NFS Unleashed & NFS Shift were behind SMS. For the record I bought Shift and Unleashed for the PC after I'd 100% completed them on the Xbox 360.

I pre-bought pCARS 2 on Steam with a nice 17% discount thanks to owning pCARS. I was very impressed with the graphics and new UI. Physics and FFB were much improved too. To my surprise in the very first race with AI, I watched AI drive smash into each other like it was an alpha build. I then watched my fps tank as the weather changed; understandable to a point but a complete contrast to the dry where the game runs like a dream with all the eye candy turned up to 11.

I was thrilled at the little touches SMS included and then disappointed to see simple track errors such as the runoff area at the end of conrod straight, Bathurst being all grass and not gravel as one example. S3 has one person who has logged 30,000 miles at Donington Park and Silverstone & he stated these tracks look wrong; Donington is a copy of pCARS with the dug up infield.

I've since read a slew of issues plague pCARS 2 from some cars being faster on rain tyres in all conditions, assists are being transfered to next car to AI that cannot leave the pits due to running into pit walls. There is a list on Reddit but I cannot vouch for its accuracy.

My criteria is much like yours - I want a relative bug free experience and not a hot lap sim because the AI sucks. I don't want to research 'work arounds' for things that should work. I read the pCARS 2 thread with some envy as the people involved with the hot lap challenge are having a good time. I can wait for a price drop (pCARS dropped in price rather quickly) a lot more patches and see where & when SMS's post-release support for pCARS 2 ends.

In the meantime, I have plently of other sims to play and enjoy.

Mascot · Oct 19, 2017

TJP said:
*snip*

Lol, stop rummaging through my bins..! I could have written all of that almost word-for-word. Spooky stuff, soul brother.

marvelharvey said:
I'd like to recommend two pieces of kit.

Firstly and more cheaply, the Ricmotech sequential-shift mod for the TH8A. I purchased my TH8A a couple of years ago, but barely used it, as I was disappointed with the general toy-like-feel of the unit. This Ricmotech mod has completely changed that though and now makes the level feel like it's connected to a real gearbox/piece of machinery.

That looks like a great bit of kit. I've been thinking of going back to stick shifting but the one thing holding me back is the thought of having the shifter on the wrong side in VR to how I'd actually have it physically mounted. I've managed to get used to seeing stick shifting in VR when I'm using paddles but having it on the opposite side might be one weird too far. It'd be nice if every car was offered in LHD and RHD for this reason alone but I know that'd be a significant amount of work for a minor payoff.

On a different note, one thing that I would love in VR is for the game to detect when I am glancing across at an opponent as I overtake them (or they overtake me, or are just alongside) and in maybe one in five instances have the avatar in the other car turn his head and look back at me. I think that would be pretty cool.

marvelharvey · Oct 19, 2017

TJP said:
I'm really surprised at how resource hungry rF2's GT3 cars are. Running 19 AI at the not-Suzuka track I'm getting sub 60fps at sections of the track, even using the default graphical settings with PP off.

My CPU+GPU combo runs AC, pCARS 2 (before refund!), R3E & AMS (naturally) all without issue irrespective of the graphical settings and grid size at a minimum 60fps. The benchmark for AC at maximum settings across the board averages out at 122fps..

At this rate I'll have to limit myself to hotlapping with the GT3 class or have a grid size of 10 cars!

Anyone else have the GT3 pack for rF2?

GT3 isn't my thing sadly.

But why don't these cars appear under the rF2's Steam DLC tab? I've never seen in game content listed as a 'Shop Item' before. Rather peculiar.

Mascot said:
That looks like a great bit of kit. I've been thinking of going back to stick shifting but the one thing holding me back is the thought of having the shifter on the wrong side in VR to how I'd actually have it physically mounted. I've managed to get used to seeing stick shifting in VR when I'm using paddles but having it on the opposite side might be one weird too far. It'd be nice if every car was offered in LHD and RHD for this reason alone but I know that'd be a significant amount of work for a minor payoff.

I hear you. Switching the stick mount from side to side when going from LHD to RHD gets old quick.

Mascot · Oct 19, 2017

marvelharvey said:
I hear you. Switching the stick mount from side to side when going from LHD to RHD gets old quick.

Apart from the faff of remounting the actual shifter I just can't imagine stick-shifting with my right hand. Thirty years of muscle memory is not easily overcome. I think I'd probably have more success swapping the accelerator and brake pedal.

marvelharvey · Oct 19, 2017

Fanatec wheel owners, what is the purpose of the plastic 'travel pin' that plugs into and locks the quick release mechanism? Having 'travel' in the name suggests I should be inserting the pin when carrying the wheel to and from wherever, but should I be using it at all times when not connected to the base? My google-fu has failed me.

Makikou · Oct 19, 2017

marvelharvey said:
Fanatec wheel owners, what is the purpose of the plastic 'travel pin' that plugs into and locks the quick release mechanism? Having 'travel' in the name suggests I should be inserting the pin when carrying the wheel to and from wherever, but should I be using it at all times when not connected to the base? My google-fu has failed me.

I don't use it and I take the rim off when traveling so fails me. One of my teammates has said it makes it feel more sturdy but I cant say I felt much of a difference.

TJP · Oct 19, 2017

marvelharvey said:
GT3 isn't my thing sadly.

But why don't these cars appear under the rF2's Steam DLC tab? I've never seen in game content listed as a 'Shop Item' before. Rather peculiar.

The DLC is listed, believe it or not, as inventory items. I confess to buying the pack and immediately hitting the rf2 forum to work out where my money had gone.

Why Studio 397 did this, apart from making refunds more difficult, I cannot say.

The GT3 cars drive really well and are highly engaging. Problem is rF2 currently requires a cray supercomputer with sli'd GTX 1080ti to hit 60fps with a decent sized grid and with post processing enabled. An 11 GT3 field in rF2 yields worse fps performance for me than a 31 AI in a storm in pcars 2 (min 52 fps) at max settings or a 56 GT3 grid at Spa in R3E, (constant 60fps) again at max visual settings.

My 1070 was at 99% usage with 11 GT3 cars at Sepang. Suzuka & Silverstone with dips into the 40fps range with just 11 cars....even with the default visual settings.

Big Takeover · Oct 19, 2017

marvelharvey said:
Fanatec wheel owners, what is the purpose of the plastic 'travel pin' that plugs into and locks the quick release mechanism? Having 'travel' in the name suggests I should be inserting the pin when carrying the wheel to and from wherever, but should I be using it at all times when not connected to the base? My google-fu has failed me.

I never used it with the CSW, but recently I discovered it cured a slight wobble that was starting to develop on my converted for OSW rim.

Makikou · Oct 19, 2017

paskowitz said:
I've found that if you replace the springs on the CSP v2s and the damper on the brake, you can significantly upgrade its feel. Throttle just needs a slightly stiffer spring. Can't fix the clutch but IMO it's ok.

I'd like to hear what kind of spring you'd suggest for the throttle pedal.

I know of some RC-car dampers for the brake pedal but the ones I found sold out / stopped manufacturing years ago.

Betta Lines · Oct 19, 2017

TJP said:
The GT3 cars drive really well and are highly engaging. Problem is rF2 currently requires a cray supercomputer with sli'd GTX 1080ti to hit 60fps with a decent sized grid and with post processing enabled. An 11 GT3 field in rF2 yields worse fps performance for me than a 31 AI in a storm in pcars 2 (min 52 fps) at max settings or a 56 GT3 grid at Spa in R3E, (constant 60fps) again at max visual settings.

My 1070 was at 99% usage with 11 GT3 cars at Sepang. Suzuka & Silverstone with dips into the 40fps range with just 11 cars....even with the default visual settings.

And that's with DX9 right? No doubt DX11 is worse, and VR worse still, which is why I was surprised when *Guaraná posted about a great VR experience with a big field of GT3s. But his footage seems solid, so perhaps it works great if you're lucky. Sounds like rF2 is being inconsistent in its performance across different hardware - a recurring theme for this product...

marvelharvey · Oct 19, 2017

Makikou said:
I don't use it and I take the rim off when traveling so fails me. One of my teammates has said it makes it feel more sturdy but I cant say I felt much of a difference.

Big Takeover said:
I never used it with the CSW, but recently I discovered it cured a slight wobble that was starting to develop on my converted for OSW rim.

Thank you both. I'll stop wasting my time with it then.

TJP said:
The DLC is listed, believe it or not, as inventory items. I confess to buying the pack and immediately hitting the rf2 forum to work out where my money had gone.

Why Studio 397 did this, apart from making refunds more difficult, I cannot say.

The GT3 cars drive really well and are highly engaging. Problem is rF2 currently requires a cray supercomputer with sli'd GTX 1080ti to hit 60fps with a decent sized grid and with post processing enabled. An 11 GT3 field in rF2 yields worse fps performance for me than a 31 AI in a storm in pcars 2 (min 52 fps) at max settings or a 56 GT3 grid at Spa in R3E, (constant 60fps) again at max visual settings.

My 1070 was at 99% usage with 11 GT3 cars at Sepang. Suzuka & Silverstone with dips into the 40fps range with just 11 cars....even with the default visual settings.

I think I'll buy one car, just to test it out with 50 cars at Suzuka.

And yes, one thing I'm hoping from 397 is better development focus, finishing off the half-completed features that ISI began and polishing off everything else.

marvelharvey · Oct 19, 2017

What the hell? A single £4.79 rF2 GT3 car comes with one skin? But anyway...

TJP said:
My 1070 was at 99% usage with 11 GT3 cars at Sepang. Suzuka & Silverstone with dips into the 40fps range with just 11 cars....even with the default visual settings.

Just for reference, with 40 GT3 cars at Suzuka on my 1080p, I'm getting around 45-50fps. That's with

-3840x1620, downsampling to 2560x1080
-Ultra PP
-Almost all graphical settings to Max (the exceptions being 'shadow edges' set to Optimal and 30 cars being rendered)
- AA set to '4xS' in NV Inspector

nuskool · Oct 19, 2017

I'm new to sim racing on PC and have a question. Is it better to run VSYNC (at 60fps) or not. I'm guessing for sim racing it's best to turn it off but wanted confirmation.

paperspace · Oct 19, 2017

kiyomi · Oct 19, 2017

I wish I wasn't allergic to screen-tearing. Have no idea how people put up with it haha. It's way more distracting than a few ms of lag to me.

But yeah from a racing perspective, no v-sync is the ideal option if you can take it.

mrsmr2 · Oct 19, 2017

I go for 120fps locked, no vsync (60 Hz monitor). Tearing is far less noticeable than at 60fps.

TJP · Oct 19, 2017

Betta Lines said:
And that's with DX9 right? No doubt DX11 is worse, and VR worse still, which is why I was surprised when *Guaraná posted about a great VR experience with a big field of GT3s. But his footage seems solid, so perhaps it works great if you're lucky. Sounds like rF2 is being inconsistent in its performance across different hardware - a recurring theme for this product...

Nope. I am using the DX11 beta build as it's the way forward for rF2.

The rF2 user forums, along with Race Department, have many posts complaining about the perofrmance of the new GT3 cars. The Nissan GT1 class cars run like a dream in comparison. I did read the LOD in the new cars from S397 has been upped to AC standards; I can't vouch for the accuracy but it makes sense.

marvelharvey said:
What the hell? A single £4.79 rF2 GT3 car comes with one skin? But anyway...

Just for reference, with 40 GT3 cars at Suzuka on my 1080p, I'm getting around 45-50fps. That's with

-3840x1620, downsampling to 2560x1080
-Ultra PP
-Almost all graphical settings to Max (the exceptions being 'shadow edges' set to Optimal and 30 cars being rendered)
- AA set to '4xS' in NV Inspector

I'd really like to have your PC! As stated above, I am one of many with terrible frame rates with the new cars. My numbers are using my own settings (all max) as well as the base/default settings rF2 provides with a new user profile.

Edit: 40 AI GT1 Nissans at Suzuka; all visual options on max & 30 cars visable netts an average frame rate of 109fps over a 3 lap race starting at the rear of the grid. Same race with 40 GT3 cars (30 visable); the average frame rate over 3 laps was 55fps.

A performance theory on RD relating to PCI-E performance:

Betta Lines · Oct 19, 2017

nuskool said:
I'm new to sim racing on PC and have a question. Is it better to run VSYNC (at 60fps) or not. I'm guessing for sim racing it's best to turn it off but wanted confirmation.

mrsmr2 said:
I go for 120fps locked, no vsync (60 Hz monitor). Tearing is far less noticeable than at 60fps.

I recommend this also, if your hardware can hit 120fps most of the time. If not, frame limiter at 60. This does mean that the tearing line can slide up and down the screen depending on the exact sync of the display, but that is the price you pay for low lag + smooth motion (having your framerate locked to a multiple of 60 is essentially as smooth as v-sync). Some prefer to lock framerate at a random higher number, so that the tearing position is also more randomised, but I don't find this to be any better. Instead, all it does is create judder.

TylerDurden4321 · Oct 19, 2017

What do you guys think of nVidia's "Fast Sync" option? It's developed as a low lag v-sync alternative if you have 2x+ of the monitor frame rate, but I've seen tests where even when the framerate dropped below 60fps, the lag was at around 12ms only.

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