In Game of Thrones, telling that a character lives on is as big of a spoiler as saying he/she dies, no one is safe and shit like that
Too true. Can't take anything for granted after poor Ned.
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*NO BOOK SPOILERS* Game of Thrones - Season 2 - Sundays on HBO (read rules in OP)
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Too true. Can't take anything for granted after poor Ned.
ElectricBlue187
Member
walbertsmith
Member
Yes, I know this... remember when I posted this?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36579143&postcount=223
Yes, most of the people don't know or don't care that the Targaryens still exist. The only ones that do know they exist are the ones in power at King's Landing, and they put out a hit on Daenerys (which I already acknowledged). And they *were* exiled a long time ago... they were exiled when power transferred to Robert Baratheon, which was about a decade ago. They only started talking about them again once they found out Daenerys was pregnant.
Again, I reiterate... the very few people that know about the Targaryen kids only care enough about them to put out a hit on Daenerys' life. That's it (and the one that cared the most is already dead). The Lannisters have far, far bigger issues at hand than worrying about a 16 year old girl stuck on the other side of the ocean.
- Stannis Baratheon, whose (legitimate) claim to the throne centers on the king being a child of incest
- Renly Baratheon, whose claim to the throne centers on being the relevant Baratheon brother, on top of having a massive army to boot
- Robb Stark, who doesn't want a claim to the throne but wants to sever half the kingdom from King's Landing's rule
- Jaime Lannister, who I don't need to explain his importance to the Lannisters
Any one of those things would be cause of massive concern for King Joffrey, let alone all of them at once. Why care about a 16 year old girl across the ocean again?
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
And everyone thinks he deserves a good slap.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
One thing that I thought was blocked awkwardly was that the Maester started really obviously dying before Melisandre even started drinking. I guess it more clearly shows off that she don't give a fuck about poison but it makes his plan look pretty terrible. "Hopefully she takes a swig in the two seconds before I start spitting up blood."
This episode and the preview in general looks really purty though. I can actually forgive some mediocre CG (although the dragon looked great and the direwolves looked fine), but too much of last season just looked cheap in terms of sets and extras. The tournament last year was pretty embarrassing. Everything looks more authentic so far.
Edit: It's not necessarily established that anyone knows any of the Targaryens are still alive except for the highest members of the Small Council.
This episode and the preview in general looks really purty though. I can actually forgive some mediocre CG (although the dragon looked great and the direwolves looked fine), but too much of last season just looked cheap in terms of sets and extras. The tournament last year was pretty embarrassing. Everything looks more authentic so far.
Edit: It's not necessarily established that anyone knows any of the Targaryens are still alive except for the highest members of the Small Council.
Team Lannister.
Rob is such a boring character as is his mother. Hopefully Jaime gets to kill him one day.
I also like Daenerys Targaryen who, lets face it, is the legitimate heir to the throne.
Yeah, drinking a poison that works that fast makes no sense.
Rob is such a boring character as is his mother. Hopefully Jaime gets to kill him one day.
I also like Daenerys Targaryen who, lets face it, is the legitimate heir to the throne.
Yeah, drinking a poison that works that fast makes no sense.
The sign of a great character is how much you either love or hate them. Joffrey is certainly a great character from how much everyone hates him. lol
I marathoned season 1 last weekend, so man it will be tough to watch week to week now. I was excepting Sean Bean to last a while since I loved him so much, but it seems like they've got a death ratio on each episode they've got to meet, it's crazy!
Kinda glad this thread will be a bit slower than the book spoiler thread, will be nice to be able to keep up and actually participate
Well religion wasn't important in S1, other than the show mentioning that the North still follows the Old Gods (Jons initiation especially) and the rest of the kingdom followed the Seven.
Now there's a new player on the scene and the status quo has been disturbed. For better or worse? Who knows.
walbertsmith
Member
Not sure if it was posted here yet, but fantastic NY Times piece on Peter Dinklage, the actor for Tyrion Lannister. There are some spoilers about the structure of the story, so be careful if you want to stay completely spoiler free.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/m...html?seid=auto&smid=tw-nytimes&pagewanted=all
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/m...html?seid=auto&smid=tw-nytimes&pagewanted=all
It isn't the Lannister family, it's that one lady. And, just to be clear, this was a group of people on a beach burning effigys of old gods. I don't know if discussing their priorities is your best argument.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Oh god I could watch this all day lol
walbertsmith
Member
Umm... are we watching the same story? The priorities I was discussing were those of the Lannisters, not Melisandre. Why the Lannisters and the Small Council? Because they're the only ones that know the Targaryens exist. And the one that most wanted Daenerys dead is already dead (Robert Baratheon).
Melisandre and Stannis Baratheon have no idea that the Targaryens even exist, let alone the dragons. Their sole concern is Joffrey "Baratheon".
Nizz
Member
This so much. Just watching that smug look on his face I wanted to punch the tv last night. He gets me grinding my teeth every time.
Also teeth-grindingly bad was when they were rounding up the babies/children. One shot where one of the guards/soldiers was holding a child upside down by one leg like it was just a sack of potatoes or something angered me.
When I heard last year that the Dire Wolves would be CGI I was a little worried. I've seen CGI wolves in movies but wondered if it could be done with a smaller tv budget well. But I thought the wolf looked great last night.
Can't wait to see Dany's dragons get bigger. That CG looked good as well. Production values on this show look fantastic. Actually seems like a step up from last season.
I don't know how you can possibly say that. Information flows through that city like water. There isn't much of anything that only a couple people know.
She seems like she is in for a rough ride, her expression when that demon of a son responded after she did that was priceless. She looked lost. And she NAILED that scene with Littlefinger too man, that shit was tense.
I didnt like her acting much last season. But she is spot on so far.
walbertsmith
Member
So tell me how Stannis Baratheon and Melisandre know Daenerys exists again? How does information flow through Dragonstone "like water"? The internet doesn't exist in this world so how do they know this again?
You realize that Stannis and Melisandre are nowhere near King's Landing right?
And that Varys (by far the most connected man in the kingdom) is part of the Small Council at King's Landing, *not* Dragonstone?
I think you need to rewatch the first season again because you are very definitely misguided on some of your notions of the show.
The best part of the commentary tracks from Season 1 was basically every episode having someone mention how easy it is to absolutely hate Joffrey :x
I feel kind of bad for Jack being the most hated person in all of Game of Thrones lol.
Ravens everywhere.
I don't think there is anything in the first season that suggests that the Targaryens in exile are some big state secret.
walbertsmith
Member
I don't think Daenerys is exactly sending out ravens notifying the world of her (and her dragons) existence.
No it's not, and I never said as much. My point is that of the few people who still know and care that they exist (the Lannisters and the Small Council), they don't actually care. The Targaryens have been such a non-factor in the kingdom for the past 10 years that *nobody* cares what happens to them (and the one that cared the most is dead).
Well, no. Pretty much everyone just thinks that they're all dead. The exceptions are the Small Council (and their possible trustees) and the dude the Targs were bunking at on the other side of the pond.
Even if they knew/remembered Danny was alive they would have known Drogo's Khal fell apart/died and that they are splintered. They would probably assume her dead/in Vaes Dothrak with the crones, or being passed around from Khal to Khal like a whore. Not exactly a threat.
Nizz
Member
Hell no! Tyrion is one of my most favorite characters on the show. The only one of the Lannisters that I don't hate.
I agree I wasn't sure exactly what was going on in that scene either.
It's explained somewhat in the hbo.com feature
"Inside The Episode: Season 2 Episode 1" I wish they'd broadcast these after every episode right on HBO.
Melisandre, they call her a "red priestess" and the director calls her "basically a witch". The scene where she drinks the poison is supposed to demonstrate that her powers are real.
ElectricBlue187
Member
The way they introduced the dire wolf was totally badass and terrifying. Even Jamie "I'm not skurred of death" Lannister peed his pants
First, you assume the fact Targaryens being alive is a secret known only to a few. Why? That she was pregnant was perhaps a secret, but I don't understand why living heirs that were exiled still being alive is somehow privileged information. It doesn't require connections, just a memory of the event or information about who was removed. I suspect that information is not a secret.
Second, we're talking about the former king's brother. It's not unlikely at all that he would know of their existence even if the two of them couldn't puzzle it together on their own. These people can all communicate rather effectively. That letter he sent out worked pretty well.
Squall ASF
Member
Nice introductory chapter, so glad the show is back! I think they did a good job with this episode, it's tough when you have to bounce around between so many characters and plot lines in one episode as each character gets little stage time but it's necessary for the first episode. With that out of the way they can now narrow focus on a handful of characters or so per episode like last season. Arya is my favorite character so can't wait to see what she goes through. Tyrion is my second favorite so I'm very pleased that he's getting a lot of limelight by the look of it this season.
Like others have said, it looks like the production values have gone up, everything looked great. I really enjoyed some of the shots and cinematography techniques with how they panned some shots like the wolf POV and the shot of the comet that panned down to the lake. The power is power scene was fantastic and Cersei losing hand with her son adds further power play complications. Things are definitely setup to get really interesting this season. Can't wait to see what Snow runs into over the wall too, so many fascinating plot threads. Incest Inn over the wall was gross, poor Snow. Oh, the younglings! Oh yeah, wonder what the deal with Bran's visions is?
Episode 2 can't come soon enough.
Like others have said, it looks like the production values have gone up, everything looked great. I really enjoyed some of the shots and cinematography techniques with how they panned some shots like the wolf POV and the shot of the comet that panned down to the lake. The power is power scene was fantastic and Cersei losing hand with her son adds further power play complications. Things are definitely setup to get really interesting this season. Can't wait to see what Snow runs into over the wall too, so many fascinating plot threads. Incest Inn over the wall was gross, poor Snow. Oh, the younglings! Oh yeah, wonder what the deal with Bran's visions is?
Episode 2 can't come soon enough.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Yeah. I think it was meant to show how desperate the situation was for Danerys but maybe it also hinted at something else?
Haha, you and me both
walbertsmith
Member
I like how you completely gloss over the whole "Targaryens haven't been relevant for 10 years" fact that I keep mentioning. Of course people know that the kids were exiled... however, that was 10 years ago. Do people still think about them now? No, of course not. The only time they became relevant was when Robert Baratheon found out that Daenerys became pregnant. How did he know this? Because Varys The Spider is on the Small Council, who is undoubtedly the most connected man in the kingdom. How does Varys know about Daenerys? Because he has (had) Jorah Mormont as his informant. Jorah is literally the only connection the kingdom has with Daenerys Targaryen. And, as we saw last season, Jorah Mormont was given a royal pardon but chose not to return to the kingdom because he grew close with Daenerys Targaryen. So this means that the kingdom no longer has a trusted source to the goings-on of Daenerys Targaryen.
Anything else I need to explain to you?
Yes, the former king's brother... also a brother that was nowhere near the king when he died (whereas Renly was), and was very explicit in this episode about how little he cared for Robert Baratheon.
The people of the kingdom rely on ravens to pass information. Stannis presumably used this same system to confer the news of the incest to the rest of the kingdom. But we're not talking about that letter, are we?
We're talking about Daenerys Targaryen. Who, as I've just described above, the kingdom no longer has reliable information on because Jorah Mormont grew very close to Daenerys (even going so far as to prevent an assassination attempt on the very girl he had been snitching on previously). So if Varys no longer knows what's going on with Daenerys, that means no one in the kingdom knows what's going on with Daenerys (nor would they care really... 10 years exile and all that). So if Varys doesn't know, then explain to me how would Stannis/Melisandre know?
Note that everything I typed is based on actual events and descriptions as given by the show... I'm not making any assumptions or leaps of logic like you're doing with the "former king's brother" or "suspecting information isn't secret." Everything I've just said is verifiable and well established by the show.
Ventilaator
Banned
I was kind of worried about forgetting a bunch of the relationships between the characters but it really wasn't an issue at all. Kind of had to look long and hard at Jorah to remember that he was called Jorah, but whatever. That was just one character. I consider that a good result.
Good episode that quickly reminded me just how excellent this world is. I continue to be worried about this whole dragon business though. After the mostly complete non-fantasyness of the first season, I'm afraid that the fantasy elements will end up seeming very out of place.
Also, fuck Joffrey.
Good episode that quickly reminded me just how excellent this world is. I continue to be worried about this whole dragon business though. After the mostly complete non-fantasyness of the first season, I'm afraid that the fantasy elements will end up seeming very out of place.
Also, fuck Joffrey.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Just imagine the dragons to be the atomic bomb of the westeros world. I also liked the fact that most characters had no special powers and stuff
No information also means no reason to assume she is dead. This woman is quite interested in fire, wouldn't you say? Is it such an enourmous stretch to suggest that, perhaps, she has an interest in the Targaryens and dragons?
Your extremely adamant position that this woman cannot possibly know or care about Dany having dragons seems incredibly misplaced. I really don't understand why you're so invested in this not being plausible in any way.
Yes. I assumed they may be setting up a love triangle of sorts. Was he related to Daenary's hubby?
I thought it was interesting that they may seem to have more control over them or the Direwolf shows the level of maturity Robb has gained.
This is something they cut out of the first season so I find it kind of odd that they referenced it here.
Basically what that blood of my blood is a saying said between a Khal and his Bloodriders. Bloodriders being sort of the Khal's kingsguard. They dedicate their lives to his and are supposed to die when he dies. When the dragons hatched, they declared themselves to Danny instead of following their Khal to the afterlife. So now they are her bloodriders, hence the blood of my blood line.
Anyways, nothing spoilery there, just something they skipped.
walbertsmith
Member
Yes, because (again) you're glossing over the whole "Targaryens haven't been relevant in ten years" part. You're making huge assumptions based on what you *want* to happen versus what's *actually* happening. Did Melisandre mention anything about dragons? No.
In fact, the only time anyone in the kingdom has mentioned Daenerys Targaryen at all has been Robert Baratheon and Varys. That's it. And that was fairly early last season too. There have been zero links elsewhere in the show with anyone else to Daenerys because no one in the kingdom cares about her. She was a child when exiled from a family that no longer exists in the kingdom. So again, why would Melisandre care about this girl, alive or dead?
How is it misplaced? The reason why I responded to you in the first place is because your initial statement seemed entirely out of character with what the show has established. Instead of propagating incorrect information, I wanted to correct you based on facts that the show has established to this point.
If anything your notion that Melisandre has any connection whatsoever with Daenerys (and her dragons) is entirely misplaced. I ask you again, what facts from the show establish this relationship? Honest question.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
What possible question could you get that isn't "too spoilery"?
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Kharvey/walbertsmith:
Melisandre alludes to the comet as part of her god's prophecy regarding the return of a great warrior. Whether she has other knowledge or ulterior motives is, like every other character, possible but entirely speculative.
Melisandre alludes to the comet as part of her god's prophecy regarding the return of a great warrior. Whether she has other knowledge or ulterior motives is, like every other character, possible but entirely speculative.
I'm suggesting it's possible, you're adamant it's not. Given the woman's interests as displayed in the episode and given the establishment of the return of dragons as an explanation for the comet, I conclude that it's possible she has surmised a Targaryen has again acquired a dragon. I'm not saying she did, I'm saying it's possible and declaring it impossible is not supported by what we know. Logically your position carries the more substantial burden of proof. Your proof consists of speculations about interests and little else. It's a very unconvincing case.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Yeah, the restrained approach to magic is a nice touch. It makes it so that when real magic does show up, it's something to be impressed by.
ElectricBlue187
Member
They only had one dragon in the budget this week
The idea that she (or any of them) could know about Daenerys and her dragons is a bloody thin. They would be pretty freaked if they knew dragons have returned to westeros
I seem to recall there being three dragons. But maybe it was only two.
i can see jaime redeeming himself in the future. he's a complicated character, you could see the regret in his eyes last season when talking to catelyn stark
dont forget MANCE RAYDER, king beyond the wall. they said he has twice as big of an army as anyone else, plus he has an epic name
in the cages, they had a couple of them
There is another thread, its perfect for a question like this. This thread is made specifically to avoid that sort of "Sort of, but not really" stuff.
Go ask here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466883
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