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AMD announces Zen CPU preview on 13th December, hosted by Geoff Keighley.

Well, Pentium 4 was released 16 years ago!

He should have said 10 years ago, the launch of Core 2.

Still, hoping that Zen is good. As I have stated before though, they have already lost the lead designer behind it (Keller) and frankly, the last time that happened was...wait for it, after the design of K8, the last time AMD had a competitive architecture which is 16 years old.

In reality K8 was competitive because Netburst was plainly awful. It was a terrible design from the start. Thankfully Intel cut its loses and went with Conroe in 2006 instead of chasing GHzs with Tejas and other Netburst derivatives.
 

Stop It

Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
Keller wasn't a permanent addition, since AMD don't have the kind of pockets needed to keep him onboard on a constant basis. He was a contract hire.
Exactly. Unless if AMD have some actual design talent to take this architecture forward and produce a generation or two after that, any gains made will be short lived.

AMD done the right thing in hiring Keller, they need to learn from the mistakes made post K8.
In reality K8 was competitive because Netburst was plainly awful. It was a terrible design from the start. Thankfully Intel cut its loses and went with Conroe in 2006 instead of chasing GHzs with Tejas and other Netburst derivatives.
That too. This time Intel have been complacent in their designs a bit, but not awful.

The target for AMD to hit is much higher, and they won't get a 2nd chance. Zen needs to be a hit. As a consumer I really want it to be.
 
Exactly. Unless if AMD have some actual design talent to take this architecture forward and produce a generation or two after that, any gains made will be short lived.

AMD done the right thing in hiring Keller, they need to learn from the mistakes made post K8.

That too. This time Intel have been complacent in their designs a bit, but not awful.

The target for AMD to hit is much higher, and they won't get a 2nd chance. Zen needs to be a hit. As a consumer I really want it to be.

I really hope they can hit 6800K performance with $300 8 core Zen. That could push Intel to make their prices more reasonable. They effectively have a monopoly on high end chips and the eco system price (along with MBs etc.) clearly reflect this.
 

leeh

Member
Judging by this very thread (edit: and the previous post, lol), there's a significant portion of the NeoGAF community that has convinced themselves that Scorpio will use Jaguar. They're probably in for a surprise when Zen shows up.
FTFY
 

Renekton

Member
In reality K8 was competitive because Netburst was plainly awful. It was a terrible design from the start. Thankfully Intel cut its loses and went with Conroe in 2006 instead of chasing GHzs with Tejas and other Netburst derivatives.
More credit has to be given to AMD and Intel Isreal. AMD because K8 was good in its own right, and Intel Isreal because Core was such a gamechanger. Even with its superior design, Intel Isreal had to fight tooth and nail with upper management to get approval.
 

Nikodemos

Member
More credit has to be given to AMD and Intel Isreal. AMD because K8 was good in its own right, and Intel Isreal because Core was such a gamechanger. Even with its superior design, Intel Isreal had to fight tooth and nail with upper management to get approval.
That's because the initial Core architecture was basically a rework of Tualatin Pentium III (mobile version). Upper management were unwilling to go back to what they saw as an obsolescent design.
 

LOLCats

Banned
I thought i had read the Zen CPU really aren't able to keep up with the 6700k class intel processors. But it might compete with the i5 series... maybe i'm mis-remembering.
 

Cartho

Member
People seem to be jumping to alot of "Zen in Scorpio = new gen for MS confirmed".

They've already come out and said Scorpio will not have exclusive games - they will all need to work on OG Xbox One too. So there is a pretty serious limit to what deves will be able to do, even with a new CPU architecture.

This is why Scorpio seems such a weird proposition to me. If they'd said it's going to be fully backwards compatible but it will have its own exclusives then I'd be down for calling it a new gen. But if devs are forced to build games for the OG Xbox One too then they are always going to be limited by it. Look at the limitations Destiny has because it was built for Xbox 360 and PS3 too - loading screens all over the damn place.

Don't get me wrong, the idea of a Zen CPU combined with a 6TF GPU and 12GB of GDDR5 is extremely exciting and I'm probably going to be leaping into the pre-order queue ASAP, but I think people seem to be getting perhaps a little *too* excited. I'm keeping my hype in check until I see more of what is really going to be inside it and until I see price. If it's retailing for £500+ then you are seriously starting to get into PC territory afterall.
 
This really needs to be something special to help jar the current CPU market. I have my reservations, but we'll see. Also, I guess no talk about VEGA GPUs at this?
 

DieH@rd

Banned
This really needs to be something special to help jar the current CPU market. I have my reservations, but we'll see. Also, I guess no talk about VEGA GPUs at this?

I think that AMD will just catch up to modern intel CPUs, but they will offer them them at the lower price.

That will be fine in my book.

2 possible outcomes:

Scorpio no Zen confirmed: $499

Scorpio Zen confirmed: $699

CPU is not the only cause for price hike in Scorpio. GPU will be bigger and hotter, and system will have 12GB of faster GDDR5.
 
People seem to be jumping to alot of "Zen in Scorpio = new gen for MS confirmed".

They've already come out and said Scorpio will not have exclusive games - they will all need to work on OG Xbox One too. So there is a pretty serious limit to what deves will be able to do, even with a new CPU architecture.

Not strictly true as they're pushing it as their first VR capable system.
I don't have a blind faith in PR lines one way or another, but announcing a brand new console at that point would have been a bad move. I'm getting more sceptical of Zen being ready though, could be Puma or something.
 
I think that AMD will just catch up to modern intel CPUs, but they will offer them them at the lower price.

That will be fine in my book.



CPU is not the only cause for price hike in Scorpio. GPU will be bigger and hotter, and system will have 12GB of faster GDDR5.

AMD needs to rival current CPUs. If they can go toe to toe with a 6700K/6600K and be less money, then it should really do very well. Intel even basically admitted that every new iteration won't be that much of an upgrade and has slowed down what they were planning to do. Probably because AMD has been behind so much in the desktop market.
 

RootCause

Member
AMD needs to rival current CPUs. If they can go toe to toe with a 6700K/6600K and be less money, then it should really do very well. Intel even basically admitted that every new iteration won't be that much of an upgrade and has slowed down what they were planning to do. Probably because AMD has been behind so much in the desktop market.
What would be a good price in your opinion?
 

Hawk269

Member
People seem to be jumping to alot of "Zen in Scorpio = new gen for MS confirmed".

They've already come out and said Scorpio will not have exclusive games - they will all need to work on OG Xbox One too. So there is a pretty serious limit to what deves will be able to do, even with a new CPU architecture.

This is why Scorpio seems such a weird proposition to me. If they'd said it's going to be fully backwards compatible but it will have its own exclusives then I'd be down for calling it a new gen. But if devs are forced to build games for the OG Xbox One too then they are always going to be limited by it. Look at the limitations Destiny has because it was built for Xbox 360 and PS3 too - loading screens all over the damn place.

Don't get me wrong, the idea of a Zen CPU combined with a 6TF GPU and 12GB of GDDR5 is extremely exciting and I'm probably going to be leaping into the pre-order queue ASAP, but I think people seem to be getting perhaps a little *too* excited. I'm keeping my hype in check until I see more of what is really going to be inside it and until I see price. If it's retailing for £500+ then you are seriously starting to get into PC territory afterall.

Well, I would suggest playing any recent PC game that is also on Console and ask yourself, is this game limited due to it's roots on base console hardware? In many instances the answer is "NO". Games are made to scale and there are a lot of features in PC games that are not in console versions, even though the game was birthed from consoles.

I think Scorpio games will be like PC games and a lot of things will be "turned on" when the game is running on the Scorpio.
 
zen is most likely not going to be in the TDP range needed to fit into a console, especially if it had to be on the same die as a large GPU

don't get your hopes up
Zen supposedly scales well from larger powerful chips down to smaller energy efficient ones.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
I thought i had read the Zen CPU really aren't able to keep up with the 6700k class intel processors. But it might compete with the i5 series... maybe i'm mis-remembering.

Yea, no.

From what We've seen from stuff that's "leaked" score wise it was able to beat out a Broadwell server cpu with less cores. Don't know which model cpu it was they were testing, but it had 8 cores.

It wasn't confirmed, but was something to go off of. If they are throwing a actual event, I would have to believe they are very confident in what they have to show these off like this.
 

Electret

Member

Doubling down? That's a bold move, Cotton.

In that case, how do you explain Lisa Su's statement - recorded on tape - to expect Zen in semi-custom 'beyond' 2017 in '18 and '19? Is she bullshitting? Is there subtlety that was not conveyed?
 

shark sandwich

tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
In reality K8 was competitive because Netburst was plainly awful. It was a terrible design from the start. Thankfully Intel cut its loses and went with Conroe in 2006 instead of chasing GHzs with Tejas and other Netburst derivatives.
This is a bit of revisionist history. Netburst was designed to hit high GHz above all else. Intel expected the architecture to reach 8-10 GHz. Nobody foresaw the leakage problems they'd hit as transistors got smaller and clockspeeds increased.
 

leeh

Member
Doubling down? That's a bold move, Cotton.

In that case, how do you explain Lisa Su's statement - recorded on tape - to expect Zen in semi-custom 'beyond' 2017 in '18 and '19? Is she bullshitting? Is there subtlety that was not conveyed?
Refer to page 1/2, where I was also quite cranky replying to the same comment.
 
Wow, this is exactly why AMD needs to come in and mix shit up with Intel on the CPU front.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...k-overclocking-performance-review,4836-2.html

Basically the same performance, making you pay the same money as the previous iterations and the only real difference is that it has a bit less in temps.

If AMD comes out swinging and has legit performance against the 6600K/6700K, you can bet Intel will scramble to put out better CPUs year by year. Better for the market and better for the consumer.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Wow, this is exactly why AMD needs to come in and mix shit up with Intel on the CPU front.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...k-overclocking-performance-review,4836-2.html

Basically the same performance, making you pay the same money as the previous iterations and the only real difference is that it has a bit less in temps.

If AMD comes out swinging and has legit performance against the 6600K/6700K, you can bet Intel will scramble to put out better CPUs year by year. Better for the market and better for the consumer.

Wait till you see Zen SR7 destroy a i7 5960x for $499.

SR7 or SR5 models destroy i5 6600k, i7 6700k for 249$-350$.

Can't wait. Intel has had the market for too long.
 

Outrun

Member
Is this the CPU that is rumoured to be in the Scorpio?

I thought folk were saying that wasnt due until well into next year and would be too late to put into any consoles for 2017, or is that still the case?

Those that don't want it in the Scorpio believe so; those that do, believe that it is in....
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Refer to page 1/2, where I was also quite cranky replying to the same comment.

Have you given the new quote a listen? While Su was asked about the outlook AMD has on pursuing higher-end market segments within the custom/semi-custom business, she answered more generally:

I talked about our Zen roadmap for our products, in terms of desktops, servers and notebooks, but one should expect Zen in our semi-custom roadmap as well as we look beyond 2017 into the 18/19 timeframe, and so we really do view this as developing foundational IP that can go into a number of different markets and we have good prospects in those areas.

This, to me, clears up the small amount of uncertainty surrounding the similar comment she made earlier in the year, which Computer Base reported on -- Zen-based semi-custom anything isn't happening before 2018, not just configurations that pair Zen with a higher-end GPU.
 

leeh

Member
Have you given the new quote a listen? While Su was asked about the outlook AMD has on pursuing higher-end market segments within the custom/semi-custom business, she answered more generally:



This, to me, clears up the small amount of uncertainty surrounding the similar comment she made earlier in the year, which Computer Base reported on -- Zen-based semi-custom anything isn't happening before 2018, not just configurations that pair Zen with a higher-end GPU.
🙁

I'm still hoping, but now, I've got nothing to hold on to.
 

Hesemonni

Banned
I'd be happy to go with AMD on my next build (still sporting a 2500k), but I'm not exactly holding my breath waiting them to actually deliver with Zen and Vega.
 
I'd be happy to go with AMD on my next build (still sporting a 2500k), but I'm not exactly holding my breath waiting them to actually deliver with Zen and Vega.
I'm in the same boat. My 2500k is at 4.5, but it's really showing it's age at this point.

I'm waiting for Zen. If it's even close to Intel performance at half the price, it'll be worth it.
 
Do we know what boards these new amd CPUs are compatible with yet? I got an am3+ mobo kicking around, but I'm guessing they gonna require a new mobo socket type?

Edit: looks like AM4 boards.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Trump said he'll never run for president but here we are

People lie at times I know it's crazy

Can't wait till official specs release

We're talking about an official statement with professional individuals here who are legally obligated to provide information to investors and such.

Not donald freaking trump.
 

Space_nut

Member
We're talking about an official statement with professional individuals here who are legally obligated to provide information to investors and such.

Not donald freaking trump.

Do you need me to quote the countless times game company reps or any other tech reps state something and end up changing from what they said?

If you been watching these companies for a long time you would know to never take anything as final until it's out
 

Papacheeks

Banned
I don't believe it until it's ready and out with proper benchmark on a consumer version. That one is comparing to an underclocked intel cpu. No clockspeed, tdp, or price range.

If they really can "destroy" an i7 6700k with a $250 Zen, then cool I'll eat crow.

Your going to be eating that since these kind of leaks are what we had for the different RX 400 cards. And they were true.

The leaked test's we've seen that were floating around are probably true since they are having this event. When was the last time AMD threw an event with someone like geoff KEIGHLEY to promote gaming CPU'S?
 
I'd be happy to go with AMD on my next build (still sporting a 2500k), but I'm not exactly holding my breath waiting them to actually deliver with Zen and Vega.

From what I've heard about Zen, it's going to be a huge comeback for AMD, we're looking at single-threaded performance between Sandy and Haswell, with 4-8 cores the performance is going to be to be incredible!

Worst case scenario, the single-threaded performance of Sandy-bridge. A 6-8 core Sandybridge CPU is no slouch either.

Clock-speed is another factor to consider, even if the single-threaded performance is lacking clock for clock when compared to Haswell or Ivy, high clock-speeds can make up for the difference.
 

Locuza

Member
AM4 is a PGA socket, so still pins.
Zen:
AMD-Zen-Bristol-Ridge-Chip-Backside-1140x732-pcgh.jpg
 
What's wrong with pins on a CPU?

I had an AMD CPU 10 years ago and when I tried to take off the cooler, the thermal paste stuck the cooler to the CPU, and in turn, ripped the CPU out of the socket while the latch was still down locking the CPU into place. It bent a shitload of the pins and basically fucked the CPU.

Mobo pins are way harder to damage.
 
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