Gentleman Jack
Member
How do you combat a problem caused by consumer preferences for convenience and low prices?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Amazons Tightening Grip on the Economy Is Stifling Competition, Eroding Jobs
- Thread starter water_wendi
- Start date
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
i brought it up as a joke because when i would rant on GAF in like 2007 or so about the problems that were coming from Amazon people would just reply to me "Broken window fallacy."
The industrial revolution wasn't all sun and roses.
there's a solid argument now.
I mean this papers over a vast transition that's taking place in retail employment and other shifts policymakers should be aware of but I understand your point
True. During my time there, we did everything internally and I mean everything. Or you damn near tried your best to lol. Creating and getting things done internally is a huge part of the company DNA.
It's gonna be a Chinese company that makes high quality counterfeit products for a fraction of the cost and delivers them right to your door via a drone army, evading import fees and local shipping fees.
It's not just that, if you're a third party selling through Amazon there's a point where Amazon can make more money cutting you out, either by introducing a competing product (Amazon Basics) or getting your suppliers to agree to sell an identical product directly to them.
It's easy for them to figure out when they have access to all the data.
That's easy. You put them out of work so they can't afford to buy your products anymore.
Yes, but the issue of technology now is it's not extensional -- to extend man's means of labor in the system -- but to usurp them.
Furthermore, the Industrial Revolution created 70 years of disruption. That's an expansion of precarity, of poverty, and displacement. Let us not look at the past lightly: change is violent because our ideas of living and survival are so limiting and so imposing that any uprooting is an act of violence.
This is one reason we need UBI. A floor means the loss of a job is not a loss of life, and this idea is still the entire problem.
Yeah, the first thing I thought of while reading the OP was "sounds like a megacorporation".
I legit had no idea they had grown that much.
Yep. They've captured the market and all future avenues of growth in a way that is pretty scary. It's not analogous to the steam engine at all.
Nah, it will be another shitty corporation making an even smaller sliver of society obscenely rich.
I think this article is trying to make the point that Amazon, due to their lack of physcial presence in the markets they sell to combined with their dominance in a wide variety of fields is fundamentally different than what we have already experienced via Walmart. I'm not entirely sure I agree with that, but as a Prime subscriber who actively avoids buying at brick and mortar stores nowadays I also recognize that I'm part of the problem
I agree that UBI is necessary, the male labor force participation issues are only going to get worse and we need far greater flexibility and mobility for our workforce going forward.
Like Walmart their investments are now paying back to the point you can't win at their game. But remember how they started, by playing a diffent game.
True, but that also requires education reform. Should people be told to pick a noose when it comes to wanting to get ahead in life? Why make this type of learning an act of punishment? Costs and debt become the noose.
UBI, UHC, and college reform are the "triforce" we need. Good luck with the GOP.
The scarier issue: does college reform actually fix a larger problem emerging at the bottom end w/ permanent displacement of a subset of workers?True, but that also requires education reform. Should people be told to pick a noose when it comes to wanting to get ahead in life? Why make this type of learning an act of punishment? Costs and debt become the noose.
UBI, UHC, and college reform are the "triforce" we need. Good luck with the GOP.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Its just reflecting the year of the report its referencing is all:
Amazon Says It Puts Customers First. But Its Pricing Algorithm Doesnt
Educate people of the wrongdoings of Amazon and hope as many of their customers as possible pick fairer options instead of saving a few bucks. It's not like that kind of tactic doesn't work. A lot of people will still continue being selfish/cheapskates but there is a portion of the public who do try to make more conscious, ethical choices, even if it costs them more.
milanbaros
Member?
I think America especially will suffer. The UK spends a higher share of retail spend online than the US but it has a 1/7th of the b&m store space per capita. A lot of the uk retail space can naturally change to office, bars/restaurants or housing.
I don't know that is the case in the US.
You'd need some transcendental approach to the game to top Amazon at this point, and you'd need to figure that out while they're spending billions on R&D to both do the same and fight you at the same time. It's just not realistic. The technology is good enough now to scale to the point where the endgame is busting up Amazon or they just straight up win. Some retail stores are eking out an existence based on proximity right now. That's not going to last much longer, as Amazon moves closer to the consumer with their own stores and new distribution methods.
The US has an issue in rural areas where the need to house people there has just ceased to exist. It's a ghost-town issue on a mass scale.
It's all fine & danty to act like a selfish jackass when you're not at the receiving end of all the bad shit that Amazon does. But consumer choices can have really damaging consequences to a lot of people, buying from Amazon moreso than a lot of other options.
Imagine being in Europe and the rest of the world ( except China ), and watches US tech companies basically stroll to dominance / monopoly while being helpless.
Buffet is not wrong to say the best place to be born is America but at the same time what tech companies bring is an even more lopside inequality of wealth and influence to a shrinking crowd. Basically he's right but your kids chance of moving up the social ladder in future is fast diminishing.
Buffet is not wrong to say the best place to be born is America but at the same time what tech companies bring is an even more lopside inequality of wealth and influence to a shrinking crowd. Basically he's right but your kids chance of moving up the social ladder in future is fast diminishing.
Probably not, but it's worth a try, and more important, to assure a minimum floor regardless. I'm fine for trying, but we can't do so under the assumptions that it must deliver the ideals of fixing the whole problem. I think deep learning is enough of a pointer that supersedence is quite likely in many regards, especially routine services.
I'm very much a "there's more work to do than ever" despite the loss of jobs, but that's because we've emphasized only one type of work as "real." I think that will unfold in the way you allude to, a type of permanent displacement. But if people have a minimum floor, they can pursue other things. The middle way here is to do both, because doing just one or the other is really failing. Assure a minimum floor and do nothing to reform education and you create a deeper disconnected class. Emphasize this education reform and do not do UBI, and you're left with the current problem of people naturally not assimilated to sustainable, survival value labor conditions.
What's scary is we'll just see the rise of dogshit thought like Jeb!! who claimed the solution is to just work seven days. You know, don't even deal with the insolubility problem.
Charity is not sustainable. We can't Kickstart/Patreon everything. Hell even Bezos said as much about the Washington Post, they had to ask for something reasonable (subs) for the work they did instead of begging people to turn off ad blockers, and it worked.
$12 billion. Not $1.2 billion.
7DollarHagane
Banned
So they evaded more taxes than their net profit for the year? Lol.
This company sometimes seems like a giant bubble. They barely produce any profit, just lots and lots of sales.
This company sometimes seems like a giant bubble. They barely produce any profit, just lots and lots of sales.
Amazon is a lot more powerful than Walmart. They also own one of the largest web hosts on the internet, AWS. Their ecommerce business could go away completely tomorrow and it'd still be a valuable company due to AWS. There's so many big sites that run on top of AWS too, like Netflix.
It was easy to see Walmart eventually getting dethroned. I don't see the same happening to Amazon.
Uno Venova
Banned
That Prime stat blew me away. I had no idea.
It's more than that. They are strong arming their suppliers because they dominate their market so severely. A perfect example is Disney movies. Disney wants a bigger cut Amazon says no so they don't offer Disney and other people's movies at launch.
Amazon has also tried to strong arm book distributions and god knows whatever else. It's a problem that needs to be addressed. They also treat their workers like shit.
It's not a bubble.
One of the growth strategy is to get mindshare as soon as possible. In most tech companies, there can only be one big winner where most people subscribes to their service. Amazon already conquer e-commence and is leading against Microsoft and Google as Cloud provider.
They are still in expansion mode because there's so much to do in the area of tech. The profits will come in big numbers once everything is said and done.
milanbaros
Member?
I'm European and own tens of thousands of dollars of US companies like Amazon, Google, Facebook and Apple.
All 4 hire thousands of people in my city paying very salaries.
The world doesn't really work like your comment says anymore.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
What has Amazon's effect been on USPS/ups/etc? Also, what has their effect been on companies who employ people to make their products? I buy shit on Amazon I would never bother going to a store for, but because it's convenient I purchase countless things I otherwise wouldn't bother with.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
They have enough influence to force the USPS to deliver on Sunday. Think about that.
Dr_LucienSanchez
Banned
The fact that you believe yourself to be left of center within the American political spectrum is mildly frightening to me.
Like someone else posted though, kind of explains a lot.
7DollarHagane
Banned
There's also the fallacy that people are saving money by using prime.
$100 a year for shipping is a lot. I wouldnt be paying for it if it wasnt sharable.
And when you remove that $100 per year subscription a lot of things on Amazon cost more there than elsewhere. People act like amazon is always the best deal but little grocery and household items are almost always more expensive on there.
But once you're hooked in with the sub fee then you tend to buy things there, even if they cost a little more than the local stores because you paid $100 for free shipping.
It's a weird thing.
$100 a year for shipping is a lot. I wouldnt be paying for it if it wasnt sharable.
And when you remove that $100 per year subscription a lot of things on Amazon cost more there than elsewhere. People act like amazon is always the best deal but little grocery and household items are almost always more expensive on there.
But once you're hooked in with the sub fee then you tend to buy things there, even if they cost a little more than the local stores because you paid $100 for free shipping.
It's a weird thing.
That depends entirely on how much you buy
PHOENIXZERO
Member
I bought a month of Prime back in mid-June for a carpet cleaner and ended up using it a lot, then due to some issues got an extra month free though if I didn't live in a rural area and had some decent stores that didn't require a 25 mile drive to reach I wouldn't be using it as much since Amazon lost their primary advantages in Michigan.
. >_>
Never mind everything else you get with Prime that admittedly I don't really use all that much.
Yes I'm talking about sales tax not being added on orders that next to no one actually bothered to include while doing their state taxes
The value of that shipping also depends on where you live and you don't have to spend $100 a year on Prime... I'll have spent $22 by the end of the year and that's basically four trips to "the city" for me.
Never mind everything else you get with Prime that admittedly I don't really use all that much.
UselessNapkin
Member
It's not just about the free shipping nowadays.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
But hasn't USPS/ups needed to expand their workforce? I don't know the answer to this, I'm assuming
I didn't say anything about charity or Patreon/Kickstarter. Just that buying cheap from supermassive companies like Amazon is actually really harmful in a large scale in a multitude ways. So unless someone is dirt poor, maybe people should try making more ethical consumer choices that maybe make for a tiny bit better world for everyone/most people involved than being hellbent on saving those few dollars while others suffer. Paying 14$ instead of 10 for some monthly/weekly purchase is a small difference for most people with half-decently paying jobs, but can be an impotant & noticeable difference to the people actually producing that stuff.
hammysaurusrex
Member
I can understand specialty stores being terrified of Amazon. However, I have absolutely no problem with Amazon destroying the basic concept of a department store. I mean: I can click a button and get the product I want from among a vast selection. Or, I can get in my car, drive to some power center, maybe find something close to what I want, then get harassed for credit card offers, insurance plans, and performance evaluations.
There's certain things I'll really miss in the near future - camera stores, bike shops, etc. But I sure as fuck am not about to cry over Best Buy and Sears, and anyone telling me I need pray at the temple of corporate incompetence because of their political beliefs can fuck off.
There's certain things I'll really miss in the near future - camera stores, bike shops, etc. But I sure as fuck am not about to cry over Best Buy and Sears, and anyone telling me I need pray at the temple of corporate incompetence because of their political beliefs can fuck off.
pretty done
Member
Worked there and the robots fuck up more than enough that a lot of jobs are safe. For now.
That said, if you need a job I suggest looking elsewhere anyway. Unless you're a manager or in HR.
That said, if you need a job I suggest looking elsewhere anyway. Unless you're a manager or in HR.