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Man ordered to pay $65K in child support for kid who isn’t his

E

elrechazado

Banned
Sir Abacus said:
There is actually a very good reason that the law is the way it is.

Think of it like this:

* Lady in good faith claims a man is father
* Father doesn't contest it, in fact, runs with it
* Father gets paternity test 20 years later
* Father then slaps mother with a suit for a couple million bucks.

The law is specifically in place to prevent a situation like this. You can't leave a time bomb in the law like this.

That's why as soon as the man accepted that he was the father without a paternity test he fucked himself. There's a reason why there's statute of limitations on civil cases and that's so that someone can't come along twenty years later can screw you over something that should have been long forgotten. His remedy was to take responsibility for his situation sooner.

Now, you may think that shouldn't there be a statute of limitations on the child support?
No because the guy here was technically evading child support until he got the paternity test. You don't get statute of limitations from a theoretically ongoing crime which is why he's still on the hook. It all comes down to irresponsible people being further irresponsible complaining about their irresponsibility coming back to bite them in the ass and turning into a "WTF FAMILY COURT FUCKING THE MAN/GREEDY WOMAN!" hatefest.
Click to expand...
Bullet four doesn't follow at all. The choice doesn't have to be to unjustly retroactively fuck the man, or to force the woman to retro pay damages. Just erase the mutual obligations once paternity is determined. No cause of action against the woman who made a good faith claim. Not hard.
 
S

SyenceLabb

Member
Sir Abacus said:
I'm sure the guy that evaded child support payments until he was given a lucky out was surely waiting around for a summons or notice from Texas's equivalent of CPS.

And if you believe that I have a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you.
Click to expand...

Did this guy piss in your corn flakes? You're talking like you know him personally.
 
T

TheCochese

Banned
Earthbound64 said:
Not victim-blaming, but just curious:



How exactly can money be taken out of someone's paycheck without them noticing and doing something about it?
I mean, don't people wonder where their money is going?
Click to expand...

I never look at my pay stubs. Maybe once a year at the W-2. I have no real reason to, I know what I should be getting.

If I had a couple paychecks that were only that much short, I wouldn't have thought anything of it.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
TheCochese said:
I never look at my pay stubs. Maybe once a year at the W-2. I have no real reason to, I know what I should be getting.

If I had a couple paychecks that were only that much short, I wouldn't have thought anything of it.
Click to expand...
They’re all electronic for me. I need to login to some site I never access but once a year lol.
 
D

DocSeuss

Member
Sir Abacus said:
There is actually a very good reason that the law is the way it is.

Think of it like this:

* Lady in good faith claims a man is father
* Father doesn't contest it, in fact, runs with it
* Father gets paternity test 20 years later
* Father then slaps mother with a suit for a couple million bucks.

The law is specifically in place to prevent a situation like this. You can't leave a time bomb in the law like this.

That's why as soon as the man accepted that he was the father without a paternity test he fucked himself. There's a reason why there's statute of limitations on civil cases and that's so that someone can't come along twenty years later can screw you over something that should have been long forgotten. His remedy was to take responsibility for his situation sooner.

Now, you may think that shouldn't there be a statute of limitations on the child support?
No because the guy here was technically evading child support until he got the paternity test. You don't get statute of limitations from a theoretically ongoing crime which is why he's still on the hook. It all comes down to irresponsible people being further irresponsible complaining about their irresponsibility coming back to bite them in the ass and turning into a "WTF FAMILY COURT FUCKING THE MAN/GREEDY WOMAN!" hatefest.
Click to expand...

What a fucked up way of looking at things. Jeez.

The court is absolutely fucking the man, and the woman is absolutely greedy in this case.

Your argument hinges on his ability to remedy the situation, but the ability is limited by his knowledge of same. And he did not have knowledge of the situation. He's the victim. The state and the mother are the perpetrator. It's that simple.

Seems like a really simple remedy would be that in the case of any debates over paternity, there should always be a paternity test. Like, if any person goes "this person owes me child support," then the first thing that should be established is a paternity test. That way, you don't end up with a case where the father "doesn't know." Heck, once you get the results, have the court make him sign that he was given the results. Lots of ways to solve ridiculous situations like this.
 
E

Earthbound64

Banned
TheCochese said:
I never look at my pay stubs. Maybe once a year at the W-2. I have no real reason to, I know what I should be getting.

If I had a couple paychecks that were only that much short, I wouldn't have thought anything of it.
Click to expand...

If you know what you should be getting, wouldn't you notice if it was different?
Or at least checked to see why it was different?

entremet said:
They're all electronic for me. I need to login to some site I never access but once a year lol.
Click to expand...

...Why wouldn't you access it?
Do people not keep track of what's happening with their money?
 
T

TheCochese

Banned
entremet said:
They’re all electronic for me. I need to login to some site I never access but once a year lol.
Click to expand...

Yup. With some arcane password requirements too.

Earthbound64 said:
If you know what you should be getting, wouldn't you notice if it was different?
Or at least checked to see why it was different?



...Why wouldn't you access it?
Do people not keep track of what's happening with their money?
Click to expand...

I'm not sweating $30 on a paycheck.
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
TheCochese said:
I never look at my pay stubs. Maybe once a year at the W-2. I have no real reason to, I know what I should be getting.

If I had a couple paychecks that were only that much short, I wouldn't have thought anything of it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was going to reply with this. If he had direct deposit it's entirely possible he never noticed because he never looked at the paystubs.

I certainly don't look at mine unless my deposit amount on the bank statement looks off. $31 wouldn't be enough to throw a red flag by itself. Maybe if my hours ended up a little low for the week so it was more than $31.
 
J

jwk94

Member
Earthbound64 said:
If you know what you should be getting, wouldn't you notice if it was different?
Or at least checked to see why it was different?



...Why wouldn't you access it?
Do people not keep track of what's happening with their money?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you haven't hung out with young adult lol.
 
K

Keri

Member
TheCochese said:
I'm not sweating $30 on a paycheck.
Click to expand...

You should start sweating it, because it could mean that someone is collecting on a judgment against you and the longer it takes you to notice, the less and less likely it becomes you can have the judgment set aside.

Generally a good idea to pay attention to your paychecks, people.
 
S

Sulik2

Member
You know what I think it might be time for mandatory DNA testing of all children born. Parents need to know if the kid is theirs if you are going to shovel heavy financial penalties against parents even if the kid is not theirs. Test at birth for all children, problem solved.
 
T

TheCochese

Banned
Keri said:
You should start sweating it, because it could mean that someone is collecting on a judgment against you and the longer it takes you to notice, the less and less likely it becomes you can have the judgment set aside.

Generally a good idea to pay attention to your paychecks, people.
Click to expand...

Ok dad.
 
A

Arrogant Bastard

Banned
Sir Abacus said:
There is actually a very good reason that the law is the way it is.

Think of it like this:

* Lady in good faith claims a man is father
* Father doesn't contest it, in fact, runs with it
* Father gets paternity test 20 years later
* Father then slaps mother with a suit for a couple million bucks.

The law is specifically in place to prevent a situation like this. You can't leave a time bomb in the law like this.

That's why as soon as the man accepted that he was the father without a paternity test he fucked himself. There's a reason why there's statute of limitations on civil cases and that's so that someone can't come along twenty years later can screw you over something that should have been long forgotten. His remedy was to take responsibility for his situation sooner.

Now, you may think that shouldn't there be a statute of limitations on the child support?
No because the guy here was technically evading child support until he got the paternity test. You don't get statute of limitations from a theoretically ongoing crime which is why he's still on the hook. It all comes down to irresponsible people being further irresponsible complaining about their irresponsibility coming back to bite them in the ass and turning into a "WTF FAMILY COURT FUCKING THE MAN/GREEDY WOMAN!" hatefest.
Click to expand...

So how about you do one of two things when you want child support. One, have the father uncontest it or two do a paternity test.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
Earthbound64 said:
If you know what you should be getting, wouldn't you notice if it was different?
Or at least checked to see why it was different?



...Why wouldn't you access it?
Do people not keep track of what's happening with their money?
Click to expand...
Yes, but I don’t worry about pretax stuff. That’s settled. I also get commission statements that give me the details. All my bills and budget are on autopilot.
 
old

old

Member
We've seen cases like this before but they were cases where the guy acted like he was a kids father for years and provided for the kid likewise.

Here he was not part of this kids life nor provided for the kid. That's ridiculous.
 
N

NintendoGal

Member
Yep, my friend is going through the same kinda shit. Kid isn't his, tested and everything. Because he just tried to do the right thing and just started paying, they said well you already are paying, so you're on the hook for all of it now!
 
S

Sir Abacus

Member
elrechazado said:
Bullet four doesn't follow at all. The choice doesn't have to be to unjustly retroactively fuck the man, or to force the woman to retro pay damages. Just erase the mutual obligations once paternity is determined. No cause of action against the woman who made a good faith claim. Not hard.
Click to expand...

DocSeuss said:
What a fucked up way of looking at things. Jeez.

The court is absolutely fucking the man, and the woman is absolutely greedy in this case.

Your argument hinges on his ability to remedy the situation, but the ability is limited by his knowledge of same. And he did not have knowledge of the situation. He's the victim. The state and the mother are the perpetrator. It's that simple.

Seems like a really simple remedy would be that in the case of any debates over paternity, there should always be a paternity test. Like, if any person goes "this person owes me child support," then the first thing that should be established is a paternity test. That way, you don't end up with a case where the father "doesn't know." Heck, once you get the results, have the court make him sign that he was given the results. Lots of ways to solve ridiculous situations like this.
Click to expand...

You forget that when he de facto acknowledges paternity and it is proven false later you have basically screwed the mother and the state to find the proper father way back when. Someone has to be responsible for the kid, he de facto acknowledged it. There's no way around this without a very good lawyer.
 
P

Phu

Banned
Earthbound64 said:
If you know what you should be getting, wouldn't you notice if it was different?
Or at least checked to see why it was different?

...Why wouldn't you access it?
Do people not keep track of what's happening with their money?
Click to expand...

If there's variation on your paycheck anyway, you may not notice a difference of 30 bucks. Union dues this week, OT next week, seasonal bonus here, uniform bonus there, 401k, etc....
 
entremet

entremet

Member
NintendoGal said:
Yep, my friend is going through the same kinda shit. Kid isn't his, tested and everything. Because he just tried to do the right thing and just started paying, they said well you already are paying, so you're on the hook for all of it now!
Click to expand...
The state loves it money. So I doubt this guy will get off the hook either.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
Vanillalite said:
Beyond the guy getting screwed over this is the kinda thing the alt right points to in terms of males getting fucked by the system.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is actually court bullshit that the men's rights groups should be highlighting and fighting instead of sending death threats to women.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
You'd think maladjusted red pill/MRA types would be out protesting in the streets and setting up a patreon for this guy right?

Or would that make them *gasp* SJWs?

Of all men's rights, family court and resources for victims of domestic violence/sexual assault are two areas that are truly lacking. The current Texas law is just flat out unjust and ignores scientific evidence and personal responsibility for the sake of tying up loose ends.
 
R

rjinaz

Member
NintendoGal said:
Yep, my friend is going through the same kinda shit. Kid isn't his, tested and everything. Because he just tried to do the right thing and just started paying, they said well you already are paying, so you're on the hook for all of it now!
Click to expand...

Damn that's rough. The guy feels bad because he knows there isn't a Father and money is likely tight, so he decides to just pay it until the paperwork gets sorted out, but because he paid it, he's now deemed responsible. No good deed...
 
entremet

entremet

Member
Fuchsdh said:
Yeah, this is actually court bullshit that the men's rights groups should be highlighting and fighting instead of sending death threats to women.
Click to expand...
Mra’s don’t really do activism lol. Funny since it’s in the name. Well rather predictable.
 
S

Sir Abacus

Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
Of all men's rights, family court and resources for victims of domestic violence/sexual assault are two areas that are truly lacking. The current Texas law is just flat out unjust and ignores scientific evidence and personal responsibility for the sake of tying up loose ends.
Click to expand...

It's not tying up loose ends, it's a kid that needs the support of a parent.

If you don't want the responsibility get the paternity test at the time?!? Or when they start garnishing your wages?

It's not like he had to go find the Holy fucking Grail to get rid of the whole thing.
 
N

NintendoGal

Member
rjinaz said:
Damn that's rough. The guy feels bad because he knows there isn't a Father and money is likely tight, so he decides to just pay it until the paperwork gets sorted out, but because he paid it, he's now deemed responsible. No good deed...
Click to expand...

It really makes me irrationally angry because it's not like he was looking to ditch out ever if it was his responsibility. And agreed on the no good deed part, it's depressing.
 
K

Kintaco

Member
Earthbound64 said:
If you know what you should be getting, wouldn't you notice if it was different?
Or at least checked to see why it was different?



...Why wouldn't you access it?
Do people not keep track of what's happening with their money?
Click to expand...
A lot of people get direct deposit and rarely look at their stubs. This is not unusual. Also not everyone gets paid the exact amount every paycheck. People work different amounts of hours. Others get paid on the 15th and last of the month, so with fluctuating days the pay also fluctuates.
 
E

elrechazado

Banned
Sir Abacus said:
You forget that when he de facto acknowledges paternity and it is proven false later you have basically screwed the mother and the state to find the proper father way back when. Someone has to be responsible for the kid, he de facto acknowledged it. There's no way around this without a very good lawyer.
Click to expand...
. Gee wiz, I was hit and run. My neighbor must have done it, so I get a default automatic judgement that he can take the time and burden of proof on himself to prove it wasn't him. If it turns out it wasn't him, fuck him, someone has to pay because nobody ever found out who it really was.
The law is wrong, a good lawyer is irrelevant. Burden of proof is on the claimant in just about every context in civil and criminal law. Where it isn't, whether by automatic paternity judgement or civil forfeiture, you get Injustice. No need to try to pretend it is anything else.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Sir Abacus said:
It's not tying up loose ends, it's a kid that needs the support of a parent.

If you don't want the responsibility get the paternity test at the time?!? Or when they start garnishing your wages?

It's not like he had to go find the Holy fucking Grail to get rid of the whole thing.
Click to expand...

The paternity test result should void all associated costs and penalties.

This is like a judge demanding you finish out your prison sentence or stay on a sex offender registry after DNA exonerated you of murder and rape, because someone obviously did the crime and we don't have him yet so you'll do just fine.
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Sir Abacus said:
It's not tying up loose ends, it's a kid that needs the support of a parent.

If you don't want the responsibility get the paternity test at the time?!? Or when they start garnishing your wages?

It's not like he had to go find the Holy fucking Grail to get rid of the whole thing.
Click to expand...

So the state fucking up doesn't matter at all? Guy messes up by not noticing a $30 difference on three checks so he's punished with $65k in backpay for child support. State fucks up by not giving any notice and that's 100% fine because the guy should have just known to be looking out for random garnishments that started and stopped out of nowhere.
 
S

Sir Abacus

Member
elrechazado said:
. Gee wiz, I was hit and run. My neighbor must have done it, so I get a default automatic judgement that he can take the time and burden of proof on himself to prove it wasn't him. If it turns out it wasn't him, fuck him, someone has to pay because nobody ever found out who it really was.
The law is wrong, a good lawyer is irrelevant. Burden of proof is on the claimant in just about every context in civil and criminal law. Where it isn't, whether by automatic paternity judgement or civil forfeiture, you get Injustice. No need to try to pretend it is anything else.
Click to expand...

The thing is, if you took your neighbor to court for some stupid reason and they didn't show up you would get a default judgement against them. Setting aside that default judgement is still a ridiculously difficult thing to do even if you have the facts on your side.
 
N

NoblesseOblige

Banned
Earthbound64 said:
Not victim-blaming, but just curious:



How exactly can money be taken out of someone's paycheck without them noticing and doing something about it?
I mean, don't people wonder where their money is going?
Click to expand...

When you make enough $30 isn't significant enough for many people to investigate.
 
C

Conkersbadfurday

Member
Earthbound64 said:
Not victim-blaming, but just curious:



How exactly can money be taken out of someone's paycheck without them noticing and doing something about it?
I mean, don't people wonder where their money is going?
Click to expand...
Well speaking personally, I almost never look at my check stubs. My work just auto pays me, so I don't get paper or anything. It's all through emails. I check my bank statement but not the email with the specific info.

Were this happening to me I'd never know. I just assume my work ain't gonna fuck me over, and if they do, it'll be an amount I notice.
 
E

elrechazado

Banned
Sir Abacus said:
The thing is, if you took your neighbor to court for some stupid reason and they didn't show up you would get a default judgement against them. Setting aside that default judgement is still a ridiculously difficult thing to do even if you have the facts on your side.
Click to expand...
Yeah setting that aside, since that's the main distinction I was highlighting with my hypothetical. In the child support context it's already demonstrably easy to get the judgement based on assertion with no scientific evidence. Hence the problem and my analogy.
 
S

Sir Abacus

Member
elrechazado said:
Yeah setting that aside, since that's the main distinction I was highlighting with my hypothetical. In the child support context it's already demonstrably easy to get the judgement based on assertion with no scientific evidence. Hence the problem and my analogy.
Click to expand...

One must show up to contest the facts if they wish to contest the facts.
 
A

Angelus Errare

Banned
Damn that sucks. Hopefully he can get out of it.

Side note to speak on the side convo going on here. Hopefully one day our gender will realize the more we box women and oppress their rights in order to maintain male dominance the more it hurts us. The more we as a society state that women are the "fairer sex" and are more naturally "nurturing" and are supposed to be the ones who cook, clean, take care of the kids, etc (and that's why they deserve to earn less) the more it hurts us in this area.
 
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