• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Easy Allies Frame Trap HOTTAKE: The future of Xbox

creatchee

Member
The moment that the streamer crowds move onto the next hot game all the investment in PUBG would be useless. Microsoft made a more solid bet on Minecraft and they seem to be happy with that for the moment.

I think you're confusing a "hot game" with a paradigm shift in the gaming industry.

Also, I was thinking the same thing about PUBG. It's lightning in a bottle this year, but what about next year? I'm sure there will be loyalists who continue to play but also potentially droves more moving to the next big thing. The best outcome for Xbox is for the game to start to fizzle when the timed exclusivity runs out, because a hot game in the hands of the beet selling console might cause folks to switch and potential consumers to choose PS4 over Xbox.

We're going to see Battle Royale games from major publishers, clones from Indies, and an all out assault of PUBG over the next few years. This is the CoD4, Quake, Halo, or Goldeneye of our generation in terms of multiplayer gaming - maybe even Counterstrike. It's not just some game that a streamer or two got 20,000 viewers for.
 

Amneisac

Member
I still think the major mistake MS made was bundling Kinect and driving up the price for something no one wanted. It just got so far behind it couldn't make up enough ground before PS4 was firmly established as the most owned console. Then it just kind of snowballed.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
There's loads of places (thats the benefit of the internet!) that will have educated and informed opinions on Xbox, Gaming..... whatever. Eurogamer being one of them.

Tabletop Adventures is still great fun and ill watch reviews of games Im interested in that EA do but to get insight and discussion around Xbox? That's a firm no.

Still not giving an actual reason.
 
Great discussion, but one thing I keep hearing in games media is that the console is still selling extremely well, just not as much as PS4. I feel like that narrative is outdated, but I could be wrong. Haven't the sales kinda fallen off a cliff this year?

Yes, sales for the XB1 this year are not good. Even ignoring the PS4.
 

watdaeff4

Member
I still think the major mistake MS made was bundling Kinect and driving up the price for something no one wanted. It just got so far behind it couldn't make up enough ground before PS4 was firmly established as the most owned console. Then it just kind of snowballed.

I think that was a big mistake, but the "no used games/DRM" stuff killed it. I was turned off by it. The only reason I got one was reversing that stance
and also because of the November 2014 firesales were too good to pass up at that time.
 
I think people are overreacting a bit. Xbox still has a huge brand presence around the globe and millions of dedicated fans. The One has been their biggest failure yet (PR-wise), and it's still sold 30mil+ units. They just need 2-3 new, interesting, and exclusive IP because they've already fixed their hardware issues with the X.
 

Marcel

Member
I think people are overreacting a bit. Xbox still has a huge brand presence around the globe and millions of dedicated fans. The One has been their biggest failure yet (PR-wise), and it's still sold 30mil+ units. They just need 2-3 new, interesting, and exclusive IP because they've already fixed their hardware issues with the X.

What parts of the globe are we talking about? North America only?
 
I disagree. I think people overestimate that damage. The console audience has shown that it doesn't hesitate to switch sides when someone else offers a better product. For much of its lifecycle Xbox 360 was a better product than PS3. PS4 is a better product than XB1. If XB2 proves to be a better product than PS5 then most people will buy that.

There is a lot of stickiness to a brand. The issue wasn't just that the PS4 was a good product. It was that the XB1 screwed up so bad. If Microsoft had just made an iterative improvement over the 360 with the XB1, it would have done much better regardless of what Sony did. The problem for Microsoft was that the XB1 actually took a step backwards in many areas, which created in opening that Sony seized on.

Xbox doesn't get nearly enough credit for the things it has done right. As a platform is services, it's a much better value than the PS4. Things like Games Pass, EA Access, Backwards Compatibility, a baked in looking for games feature, preview program, early access games, and more.

Xbox has spent the last couple years building out the feature set of the platform in really cool ways. I can't remember the last really awesome feature Sony implemented into the PS4 platform. PS Now?

That is a repeat of the pro-Xbox arguments we had at the beginning of this generation. The truth is contained in your first sentence. People don't really care about all that stuff. They are all second tier or worse on the console buying decision tree. Price, games, performance, and network effects are all far more important. Only when those don't provide a clear winner do other considerations matter.

The Xbox One X is a solution to a problem Microsoft will have two or three years from now. That's why it's so perplexing what their plan is and how it may do for them. Taking a chance on upgrading hardware, at a $100 price increase, without closing the software gap? And saying it's a niche premium product where clearly that's not the market they should be addressing?

It's a gamble. Maybe it will sell really well and it becomes the de facto multiplat machine, and maybe that will translate to more first party games and exclusives. Maybe it will sell enough to keep the Xbox brand in the conversation and be a nice second or third place console, or sell to folks who are interested in the Halo/Gears/Forza cycle.

I don't see this moving through needle forward in any capacity, but clearly I'm not smart enough to be in Phil's position so we'll all see when the NPDs come out this holiday and for the next year.

Like the PS4 Pro, the XB1x is not meant to be a mass market device. It is there to compete with the Pro and help regain Xbox's brand as an enthusiast's console that the XB1 so tarnished. It is meant to stop the bleeding until whatever Microsoft decides to do next.

One thing people aren't considering regarding the Xbox's exclusive situation is that it take 3+ years to make a new AAA game. Microsoft gambled on a move away from gaming towards multimedia at the start of this generation. They wanted the exclusive content on the XB1 to be more videos, less games. As a result, their gaming production capacity suffered. By the time they accepted they had made a mistake, it was too late to hire/create development studios and make new games that would come out this generation. The best they could do was to buy some timed exclusives, and start some smaller games.

That all assumes that Microsoft wants to have a strong gaming presence, and is not just trying to make the best of a bad situation. A good case can be made that gaming was only one of many attempts to control and/or preempt others from owning, home TVs. Once they felt they had secured their spot with the 360, they shifted their focus back to the original TV strategy.
 

Kill3r7

Member
I think that was a big mistake, but the "no used games/DRM" stuff killed it. I was turned off by it. The only reason I got one was reversing that stance
and also because of the November 2014 firesales were too good to pass up at that time.

I think their messaging has been off for the last 6-7 years. For example the always online DRM stuff did not need to be rolled out that way. Most of the popular games today essentially require online access to play. Consumers will adjust their behavior if there is a compelling product/reason to do so. By the same token, MS did not need to alienate folks who bought used games. Instead of admonishing such individuals why not provide them with incentives to willingly switch to digital. That is where they dropped the ball. Furthermore, moving forward they need to tighten their message and figure out what they are all about. A massive AAA hit would go a long way in buying them some time to pivot.
 

wreckml

Member
Correct. I'm not going to listen to it and I dont feel that I have too. If you want to get informed opnions on Nintendo, Sony, JRPG's etc then I think that Easy Allies would be one of the first places you would go - for Microsoft and Xbox, not so much.

Im more trying to counter the inevitable posts that are sure to follow this thread by stating they wouldnt be my first, second or twentieth port of call to get insight into whats happening with all things Xbox.

You're misunderstanding the point of the video... because you haven't watched it. They don't need to be informed Xbox experts to explain why they (and potentially why others as well) haven't found the Xbox to be a compelling platform this generation. Their opinions matter because they are people who have fallen out of favor with the Xbox brand, just like a lot of people did going from 360>Xbone. Which is exactly the point of the discussion. They are saying what it would take for Xbox to get them back, and that has value when they do represent this Sony/JRPG/Nintendo fanbase.

I'd agree with you if they started an all Xbox podcast and claimed to be big Xbox fans/experts, but in a discussion such as this I think they are the perfect outlet.
 

Snoopycat

Banned
The only things I care about when new consoles launch are power and price. I don't care about your brand or your company. Cheap and powerful with a decent game library is all that matters. That was what Microsoft forgot and they paid a heavy price for it. I doubt they'll make that mistake with the next gen.

I got my new Xbox Slim sitting under the TV. The first day I turned it on and looked at the store I was pretty underwhelmed by what's on there. It's disappointing as hell really. I love the backwards compat stuff and EA Access is cool but that's kind of it. I bought Ori and Sunset Overdrive and they're cool. Downloaded Subnautica and I like that but christ it runs like shit, it freezes every 10 seconds. Path Of Exile, Black Desert and PubG are the only games I'm looking forward to.

The system has been out a few years now and the exclusives line up is piss poor. I don't know how they've gotten themselves into this mess. I was thinking about maybe trading in my Slim for the X1X but I can't see the point. I don't have a 4k TV so all this update stuff is meaningless. All they have to do is just put together a decent line up of games that run at 1080p 60fps and most people would be happy.
 

GodofWine

Member
If they are smart and devious, they'll launch the Minecraft 'better together' (?) update, and have PUBG ready for day one on the XBX.

PUBG is their one real bullet in the chamber, they have it locked up for at least a few months (longer? who knows based on how they worded it), they need to use it, sell the game at cost for like $15.

XB1 and XBX Battleground Edition - Available Nov 1 $300 / $500 - It would fly off shelves.
 

Usobuko

Banned
You're perfectly correct that the loyalty people had for the 360 didn't stop many of them from switching to the PS4 when the generational jump happened.

But i do think that, with (probably) backwards compatibilities, digital game libraries, subscription services, etc. - losing THIS generation was a way bigger deal than some expect, and the bolded isn't as much of a fact as you're assuming it is.

People had no real baggage when switching from 360 to PS4 - maybe their achievements / gamer score. Now, people own hundreds of dollars in digitally purchased games, a huge backlog of free games, etc.
It's contuously becoming harder / more 'hurtful' to completely switch ecosystem of choice. - it's an entirely different situation compared to the PS360 -> Xbone/PS4 jump.

MS had a great position on the gaming market, and at an imho critical moment, they completely and utterly fumbled.

I agree with most of your post except I think loyalty is much more prominent.

The loyalty cultivated for PlayStation via its dominance in PS 1 and PS 2 era is what makes a much cheaper and better product the 360 is to only match PS 3 in sales.
 

Shin-Ra

Junior Member
Can't watch it right now, but based on your summary it seems to be a cringefest.

Will watch it later and be prepared to feel embarassed despite being the only person in the room.
Imagine sharing this room with dozens of other human beings.

PixelPurity.jpg
 
So basically you're discrediting the content of the subject without having watched it because of what you percieve the group to be?

Cool. Got it. Thanks for the contribution.

I'm basing my opinion on the hundreds of hours where I've watched their content over the years and discrediting because of that.

Is that okay? lol
 

Kill3r7

Member
I agree with most of your post except I think loyalty is much more prominent.

The loyalty cultivated for PlayStation via its dominance in PS 1 and PS 2 era is what makes a much cheaper and better product the 360 is to only match PS 3 in sales.

This is unquestionably true WW but in the US that "loyalty" was clearly lacking last gen.
 

Par Score

Member
PUBG is their one real bullet in the chamber, they have it locked up for at least a few months (longer? who knows based on how they worded it), they need to use it, sell the game at cost for like $15.

Which is an absolutely absurd position for a company like Microsoft to be in.

Their last, best hope is a game that's already going to have sold 15 million copies by the time it comes out on their system? In absolutely no way do they have it "locked up" and they have zero leverage against it.

This is not a Minecraft situation. Every copy of Minecraft sold is a win for Microsoft. PUBG is only a win for them if it moves Xboxes, and why would it move more than a handful?
 

J-Skee

Member
As much as I like Damiani's prediction, even the PS3, for all of its faults, was able to recover. I believe Microsoft can do the same with the Xbox One.
 
As much as I like Damiani's prediction, even the PS3, for all of its faults, was able to recover. I believe Microsoft can do the same with the Xbox One.

The PS3 recovered because it was the successor to the best selling console of all time. Sony has and still has the global presence and mindshare to pull something like that off. If the same was going to happen for Microsoft then it would already be happening, but we're seeing the opposite happen. Not to mention that Sony was hyper aggressive with their first party content which was a huge factor. Again, with Microsoft the opposite is happening
 

J-Skee

Member
The PS3 recovered because it was the successor to the best selling console of all time. Sony has and still has the global presence and mindshare to pull something like that off. If the same was going to happen for Microsoft then it would already be happening, but we're seeing the opposite happen. Not to mention that Sony was hyper aggressive with their first party content which was a huge factor. Again, with Microsoft the opposite is happening

It's interesting what you say about the mindshare. Almost all of my friends play exclusively on Xbox. If you knew my circle, you would think that Xbox was the market leader in everything.

I mean they have a bigger presence in many different markets that help it recover.

The majority of XB1's sold so far have been in NA, and the PS4/XB1 sales in NA are roughly even IIRC. That should answer your question

I just checked ********. I'm not sure how accurate their data is, but yikes, the Xbox One is getting killed everywhere except for North America.

EDIT: Haha, looks like the site I was referencing isn't good after all, considering it got auto-censored out of my post.
 
It's interesting what you say about the mindshare. Almost all of my friends play exclusively on Xbox. If you knew my circle, you would think that Xbox was the market leader in everything.

I can believe it. Just speaking generally, PlayStation just has more brand power and consumer pull globally. Hell, last generation when PS3 was on the back foot and Xbox 360 was THE console to earn, everyone in my school was playing Modern Warfare on PS3 instead, despite the fact that Xbox 360 was objectively the more popular console at the time.
 
I dont think xbox is going anywhere, they're finally profitable, the only reason for MS to dirch xbox is if they believe those resources could be better used somewhere else.

All they have to do is be conservative and wait for sony to make a huge mistake and take back momentum from them. Thats generally how console generations go, its not necessarily the best console that does something super innovative that wins, its the console that doesnt have the cell, or a $599 price tag, RROD, or always online DRM.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
MS would have to be crazy to not have their new console available whenever the PS5 launches.

If they build a better machine they can get people to swap over from PS in the same way a lot of people moved from 360 to PS4.


Assuming both release in the same window, and both produce boxes for a similar price to the best of their ability - both will be similarly capable.

In that situation (and assuming backward compatibility due to x86), Sony is in a really strong position. They are 2:1 market leaders from this generation, so there is a larger installed base of PlayStation users to potentially convert to ps5; the massive increase in digital purchases this generation means those PS4 owners are stickier than before - they can’t just trade in their old games and switch easily, they’d be abandoning their previous purchases

If they aren’t willing to invest in exclusives then they have nothing to offer. Being the same won’t be enough, they have to offer significantly more to convert PlayStation owners next gen. More than from previous gens.
 

wapplew

Member
One good E3 will wash all this away.
MS just need to wow the audience like they did in 2014, but deliver this time.
 
I'm basing my opinion on the hundreds of hours where I've watched their content over the years and discrediting because of that.

Is that okay? lol

What your doing is akin more to, "didn't read the OP or the link but here's my contribution."

Which is cool I guess. Thanks for letting us know that you don't care about the topic. Or that you don't know what the discussion is about.
 

El-Suave

Member
The only part I disagree with is that they undersold Xbox Live. I don't have a box but they have some nice matchmaking and convenience features built into the OS. They're probably writing that off because they're not using it. Happened all the time the other way round last gen with PS3.
 

pagrab

Member
One additional thing you have to take into account is how badly MS treated some territories at launch. I live in Poland and we are mostly a PlayStation country (when it comes to consoles). Still, Xbox360 managed to be really popular - many users, good brand recognition, even Kinect was a hit among families and Kindergarten kids.

And how do MS treat its new market? They decide not to release their new console for half a year (despite their competitor being there from day one), not to mention the fact that we will never be able to use most of the "hot" TV features. From a PR standpoint it was a disaster. It might be one small market, but it was not the only one.
 
And how do MS treat its new market? They decide not to release their new console for half a year (despite their competitor being there from day one), not to mention the fact that we will never be able to use most of the "hot" TV features. From a PR standpoint it was a disaster. It might be one small market, but it was not the only one.

yeah this too, Tier 2 market had to wait 10 months for the console to officially come out. Of course by then every store already had consoles from Germany imported.
 
Top Bottom