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New Indie NES/SNES/GEN/N64 Games on Wii?

J

joystickz

Member
New Indie NES/SNES/GEN/N64 Games on Wii?

mods please lock asap if old... but i had trouble finding an entire topic on this singular subject... which is well worth it on GAF


Anyway....

Here's what I'm curious about...

With the virtual console moving into place, and low budget or indepentant games being of great interest to Nintendo much like Microsoft for Live Arcade...

What are the possibilites we will see new games, designed within the parameters of old hardware... being released virtually as what are effectively "NEW Old games" ala Beggar Prince?

Do the old devkits still exist? Is the development environment accurately reinterpereted on a computer? People have been hacking roms forever... making new content...

But what about new games from scratch?

Will we see NEW old games... on Wii?

Would any devs reading this on GAF be interested in completing new SNES games?
How about NES? TG-16? etc?

Would Sega have to licence the Genesis roms as official Genesis titles?
As would Nintendo and Hudson etc?

What are the chances on this happening?

But... more importantly...
What are the chances of you, yes YOU Gaffer... paying $5 bucks for Joe Schmo's new NES shmup he made in his basement over the summer? Would you give them a chance?

Who wants to see this happen more than I do?

Discuss
 
A

Archie

Second-rate Anihawk
Why would a developer utilize an archaic system when they could use the Wii which is (comparativly) more powerful?
 
Battersea Power Station

Battersea Power Station

Member
Archie said:
Why would a developer utilize an archaic system when they could use the Wii which is (comparativly) more powerful?
Click to expand...
It depends on how you can code games for the Wii. On the 360, you can code Live Arcade games in C#. Will you be able to do the same for the Wii? I hope so, but for some reason I doubt it. If the only way to make a downloadable game that's outside of the Virtual Console set of emulators is to buy a Wii development kit, indy designers will probably opt to stick it on the SNES instead.

Who knows? I'm excited by the potential, but it will only be realized if the consumor support is there.
 
J

joystickz

Member
SnakeXs said:
*cough*

As for new games on old hardware... Probably not.
Click to expand...



right... that thread was why i made this... thought it was a little too vague and not touching enough on the idea of new 8 bit/16bit games created independantly just for Wii....

too many people seem to be focused on collecting the old roms for sale...

what interests me so much more is the "blue ocean" of new content out there for indie devs to finally finish off that 16 bit RPG they've been dreaming of... and licensing it... and selling it legitimately on Wii....

any takers?
 
J

joystickz

Member
Archie said:
Why would a developer utilize an archaic system when they could use the Wii which is (comparativly) more powerful?
Click to expand...



seriously....

look at the dreamcast 's "return"

its more about the hardcore spirit of the system... ya know?

c'mon gaf.... i KNOW someone out there wants to see new NES games... done for the virtual hardware... by hardcore enthusiasts.


i know they're out there....
and i KNOW they're on GAF!

i know a few chiptune artists that would be on board just to do the soundtracks alone...
 
V

VultureDude

Member
they need to resurect Boogerman and Earthworm Jim in their 2D sprite forms.

can you guys actually imagine a world where the SNES is essentially alive again? that's the reality here guys, provided everythign works out as planned.

:D
 
J

joystickz

Member
VultureDude said:
they need to resurect Boogerman and Earthworm Jim in their 2D sprite forms.

can you guys actually imagine a world where the SNES is essentially alive again? that's the reality here guys, provided everythign works out as planned.

:D
Click to expand...



ummm.... not so much.

yes of course new sequels to old games that were born on old hardware are possible...

but i think thats best left to new hardware.
i'm dreaming more about new ORIGINAL content for old harware...with the roms sold officially on Wii.

NEW OLD GAMES!
 
J

joystickz

Member
Here.

http://www.beggarprince.com/

I can't belive this is so hard to explain.

Take Beggar Prince for example.

Beggar Prince was designed for the Sega Genesis independantly and released on a Genesis cartridge just last month.

Imagine though....

if those devs weren't faced with the cost of manufacuring all the new unlicensed carts...

what IF... they were able to officially sell games like Beggar Prince on Wii?

its a NEW Old Game. You copy?
 
J

joystickz

Member
Himuro said:
It's kinda similar. I also suggested that certain games be localized and released on Wii's VC.
Click to expand...


right...
kinda similar... but not at all.

you want to see previously unreleased stuff in america finally come home to the US on Wii.
cool... we all want that...


but do we all want NEW NES games designed in 2006?

I DO!
 
J

JoshuaJSlone

Member
joystickz said:
Beggar Prince was designed for the Sega Genesis independantly and released on a Genesis cartridge just last month.
Click to expand...
Beggar Prince, though, is an old game that's newly localized.

Even if it were completely new, though (and I can think of other dead systems with all-new games), a lot of the point to things like that is that it's fun to have an actual new cartridge that plays on the old machine. If it's completely done through Virtual Console, that doesn't happen.
 
J

joystickz

Member
JoshuaJSlone said:
Beggar Prince, though, is an old game that's newly localized.

Even if it were completely new, though (and I can think of other dead systems with all-new games), a lot of the point to things like that is that it's fun to have an actual new cartridge that plays on the old machine. If it's completely done through Virtual Console, that doesn't happen.
Click to expand...


you're right... you got me on that.


but you see my point though....

i mean... look.. i dont want to point to roms out there on the new that arent just hacks...
but are in fact new games... just to be played via emulation. freaking NES/SNES homebrew!

well...

how about new games on Wii?
 
B

blackadde

Member
VultureDude said:
can you guys actually imagine a world where the SNES is essentially alive again?
Click to expand...

comparatif-gba.jpg
 
P

Pikelet

Member
all it needs is a rating and a demo system to see what your buying before hand.With potentially heaps of homebrewish type games you need something to prevent getting lemon.
 
J

joystickz

Member
blackadde said:
GBA image
Click to expand...


so true.
yes...

but really now... this is why i'm so curious if the N would let this notion pass...

its not progressive.

its not as bankable as something that could see the licensing fees and potential hardware growth on GBA or DS at retail...

its probably just too niche...


But... i just need to gauge how niche the want for new 8/16/64 bit roms are...
 
P

Polari

Member
Battersea Power Station said:
It depends on how you can code games for the Wii. On the 360, you can code Live Arcade games in C#. Will you be able to do the same for the Wii? I hope so, but for some reason I doubt it. If the only way to make a downloadable game that's outside of the Virtual Console set of emulators is to buy a Wii development kit, indy designers will probably opt to stick it on the SNES instead.

Who knows? I'm excited by the potential, but it will only be realized if the consumor support is there.
Click to expand...

There's always the likes of Flash and DHTML in Opera. :lol

If your idea is that good, you're going to find the $2000 a development kit costs somewhere.
 
J

JoshuaJSlone

Member
If they want to make a game in the NES style, fine. But I'd think it would be easier and less limiting to program a 256x224 low-color sprite-based Wii game.
 
S

Synth_floyd

Banned
MS is doing something similar on XBLA. Why would you want new games to be developed on old hardware? That's like saying "I want to write a program for a computer with a 16mhz processor and 64kb of RAM." You can make the game look like an old one but there's no reason to "develop" it on old hardware.
 
J

joystickz

Member
JoshuaJSlone said:
If they want to make a game in the NES style, fine. But I'd think it would be easier and less limiting to program a 256x224 low-color sprite-based Wii game.
Click to expand...


sure... use whatever dev tools you can... but keep the program within the parameters of what an NES game is capable of. literally make a new NES game... and it would run off of the Wii's NES emulator....


Synth_floyd said:
MS is doing something similar on XBLA. Why would you want new games to be developed on old hardware? That's like saying "I want to write a program for a computer with a 16mhz processor and 64kb of RAM." You can make the game look like an old one but there's no reason to "develop" it on old hardware.
Click to expand...

build it using whatever. just make new games to run via the emulation of old hardware.

and WHY? you ask?
because the spirit lives on.
 
B

BooJoh

Member
I think the reasoning behind the concept is that indie developers don't likely have the cash to invest in a Wii devkit. Retro is also very much in style right now. Who wasn't instantly captivated when they saw the 8-bit style Katamari minigame in Me & My Katamari? Who played Cave Story and didn't like it?

There's obviously a market for this type of thing, and these games could realistically be developed by a team of less than ten people, if not a single dedicated creator.

I think the biggest issue with the entire idea is that this is Nintendo we're talking about. I love them as much as the next fanboy, but they're simply not the type to embrace such an idea.

I would definitely consider buying indie games made new for oldschool systems. I love the idea. But I also love the idea of a VC GameBoy micro with a hard drive to take our VC on the go.. and that won't happen either. Maybe I'm just jaded, but I doubt Nintendo would even consider the idea.
 
J

JoshuaJSlone

Member
joystickz said:
sure... use whatever dev tools you can... but keep the program within the parameters of what an NES game is capable of. literally make a new NES game... and it would run off of the Wii's NES emulator....
Click to expand...
But that's the point, you can't just work with any old tools, limit yourself, and compile an NES game. It's easier to make a low-tech Wii game. Unless you're actually going to make it play on an NES machine, there's no need to have it as an NES ROM. Hell, from Nintendo's point of view that'd be worse; if the encryption was cracked suddenly the "new old" Wii game is playable on millions of copies of Nesticle on people's 10-year-old PCs.

BooJoh said:
I think the reasoning behind the concept is that indie developers don't likely have the cash to invest in a Wii devkit.
Click to expand...
If the only possible way a group could work on a Wii-compatible game is by using freeware homebrew NES development tools, I don't imagine their game will actually end up on Virtual Console, any more than my old QBasic games will be on XBLA.
 
F

FitzOfRage

Member
JoshuaJSlone said:
If the only possible way a group could work on a Wii-compatible game is by using freeware homebrew NES development tools, I don't imagine their game will actually end up on Virtual Console, any more than my old QBasic games will be on XBLA.
Click to expand...


That's very true, especially since Wii dev kits are supposedly ridiculously cheap.
 
M

MutFox

Banned
How about NES/SNES/N64 games with new style of control.
Sprite based games using all the advantages that Wii has to offer.

Old style games made new again.

If games are made for the NES VC,
I would hope developers aren't locked to the D-Pad/2 buttons.
If they are, a lot of the potential could be lost.
 
D

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
This doesn't make any sense.

It sounds like a gimmick... just make the game for the Wii as a downloadable game.
 
C

Cheesemeister

Member
MutFox said:
If games are made for the NES VC,
I would hope developers aren't locked to the D-Pad/2 buttons.
If they are, a lot of the potential could be lost.
Click to expand...

What? If you're going to intentionally limit yourself by making a NES-looking game instead of a Super NES-looking game, why would you all of a sudden want to lose a great deal of the charm by embracing a more complicated control scheme? There are very few NES games that I can think of (Bart vs. the Space Mutants for one) that could've been improved by a third or fourth face button, as any non-adherence to simplistic controls resulted in messy button overlapping. Essentially, the games were all straigtforward enough given the technology of the time to only require two face buttons. If you want something like Super Mario World with NES graphics, fine... But even that control scheme has been shoehorned into two fewer buttons.
 
M

MutFox

Banned
Cheesemeister said:
What? If you're going to intentionally limit yourself by making a NES-looking game instead of a Super NES-looking game, why would you all of a sudden want to lose a great deal of the charm by embracing a more complicated control scheme? There are very few NES games that I can think of (Bart vs. the Space Mutants for one) that could've been improved by a third or fourth face button, as any non-adherence to simplistic controls resulted in messy button overlapping. Essentially, the games were all straigtforward enough given the technology of the time to only require two face buttons. If you want something like Super Mario World with NES graphics, fine... But even that control scheme has been shoehorned into two fewer buttons.
Click to expand...


I was just saying,
kinda how that SNK guy was talking about bringing the Metal Slug series to Wii,
with the added WiiMote support. (Not VC I know.)

Not saying they have to take advantage of it,
but if a developer wished to do it,
don't box them into only 1 control type.
 
C

Campster

Do you like my tight white sweater? STOP STARING
I'd have an extremely hard time believing that they'd force developers to program for what is essentially software emulation of a piece of hardware that's running on another piece of hardware. There'd be too many places things could eff up and get buggy. If you run into a consistant problem, is it something wrong with your code? With the way the emulator works? Was it a glitch in the old hardware to begin with, and the emulator is just replicating that?

It'd be like trying to program a new game exclusively for a GBA emulator from the ground up, without any base code or anything. It would be an awful mess. No, I think we'll get new indie titles, but they won't be randomly running on emulations of outdated hardware.

I mean, if I want to make a top-down 2D game, or a side-scrolling platform, I could just make it for the Wii. It has more power than any of the older consoles, and accepts a wider variety of inputs. No reason to constrain myself to 16 bit graphics and 256 color limitations for no reason other than that it's cool to release a game for a console twelve years after it died.
 
S

Sega

Member
I love old games. I create music using old sound chips from Gameboy, NES, and Commodore 64. I love pixel art. I play NES, SNES, and Genesis games fairly often still. I love simplicity in game design. And with all of that, I still have to whole heartedly concur with sp0rsk. This is really really stupid.
 
W

Willy Wanka

my god this avatar owns
I'd just like to know whether any of the Snes/Genesis/N64 etc games will have improvements like online play or will they just all be like playing roms on an emulator? Has much been said about enhancements or anything like that?
 
T

Tyrone Slothrop

Banned
i could see there being advantages to there being indie dev'd games a la xbox live

remember those 32 megabit RPGs that came around the end of the super famicom's life? wouldn't it be cool to see more games in that style

but then again it could be a breeding ground for crap
 
D

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
Willy Wanka said:
I'd just like to know whether any of the Snes/Genesis/N64 etc games will have improvements like online play or will they just all be like playing roms on an emulator? Has much been said about enhancements or anything like that?
Click to expand...

At one point, the iQue was supposed to allow online gaming with some of its games... but I don't know if anything ever came of that.
 
C

Campster

Do you like my tight white sweater? STOP STARING
Tyrone Slothrop said:
i could see there being advantages to there being indie dev'd games a la xbox live

remember those 32 megabit RPGs that came around the end of the super famicom's life? wouldn't it be cool to see more games in that style

but then again it could be a breeding ground for crap
Click to expand...

Right, but there's a difference between Nintendo providing for a cheap and easy distribution channel for new indie games and new indie games being developed to run on emulators of outmoded, painfully archaic hardware.
 
J

joystickz

Member
PlayStation Tree said:
Well said.




Seriously.
Click to expand...

Look I'm not talking about a de-evolution of game design or the industry as a whole... but just something that could facilitate a small rebirth content of old formats, virtually.

Such a rebirth could see some really interesting "what if" games from developers new and old alike showing us what could be done on the old platforms if done today.

The amount of work that might have to go into a game built for NES these days could result in being just a side side project for some developers...

For christ sake...

Look at the new GBA BIT generations series...
http://club.nintendo.jp/bit-g/index.html

I mean...

here.
Anyone ever hear of the RetroRedux competiton from Atari?

http://retroredux.parsons.edu/


people compete to design what is essentially an atari 2600 game using new tools...
but built within the parameters of being an atari 2600 game...

i had a chance to play some of that stuff and it was incredibly fun and innovative...
heck... people DO still make new atari games and carts... see it all the time at PhillyClassic and such...

But the NES/SNES/GEN/TG16/N64 dev scene would be given new commercial life again.... on a scale as big as content creators can amass it too.

does anyone here not have the heart for this stuff?

don't make me take this to insert credit....

cmon gaf.. wtf?
 
J

joystickz

Member
Here.

http://www.vortechdesign.com/bullrun/index.php

Play Bull Run....
Remember that this was made by six people in 24 hours in 2005.... for the 2600...
(although not really... i think its flash based... but its the same design parameters)

This game is amazingly fun.

A gem.

Now...

Imagine the kind of new content we could see in the same veign... but for NES, SNES etc. on Wii?

Where's the love gaf?
 
D

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
joystickz said:
Look I'm not talking about a de-evolution of game design or the industry as a whole... but just something that could facilitate a small rebirth content of old formats, virtually.

Such a rebirth could see some really interesting "what if" games from developers new and old alike showing us what could be done on the old platforms if done today.
Click to expand...

I just don't see the point... why intentionally limit yourself to run in an emulator?

If you plan to make REAL carts to sell for folks to use on their old hardware, I understand it. There just doesn't seem to be a reason to make retro games to run under an emulator -- it doesn't make any sense in this context. Make the same sorts of games using the modern Wii architecture.

For the gamer, why does it matter whether the developer made it to be run under the emulator versus made directly for the hardware?

There is no -reason- to make a game for the emulator rather than making it for the Wii itself.
 
F

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
DavidDayton said:
I just don't see the point... why intentionally limit yourself to run in an emulator?

If you plan to make REAL carts to sell for folks to use on their old hardware, I understand it. There just doesn't seem to be a reason to make retro games to run under an emulator -- it doesn't make any sense in this context. Make the same sorts of games using the modern Wii architecture.

For the gamer, why does it matter whether the developer made it to be run under the emulator versus made directly for the hardware?

There is no -reason- to make a game for the emulator rather than making it for the Wii itself.
Click to expand...
Lower (or no) licensing fees?
 
D

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
Fuzzy said:
Lower (or no) licensing fees?
Click to expand...

...

Let me get this straight... you think that Nintendo would set up a different licensing fee for a new game on the Wii just because it was running under one of their emulators, rather than directly under the standard environment?

That makes no sense at all.
 
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