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mattx5 · Aug 16, 2004

I just saw this over at RT, don't know what to make of it....

Rapunzel: Unbraided

A Day With Wilbur Robinson

American Dog

Go check out http://www.aintitcool.com/ for more.

Some of this stuff seems to be weird hybrid mixtures of 2d and 3d..... is this the new Disney?

Warm Machine · Aug 16, 2004

It looks like production art or inspirational work for the films.

deadhorse32 · Aug 16, 2004

American Dog - Yeah

The Rest - Meah

Alucard · Aug 16, 2004

It's probably just promo work. Either way, Disney has been running low on ideas for a while. Give us more movies like The Emperor's New Groove without the usual song-and-dance numbers.

Prospero · Aug 16, 2004

This reminds me of when I saw Gerald Scarfe's production designs for Hercules (which looked more like something out of Pink Floyd: The Wall than the final product). The preliminary sketches for Disney movies often look innovative, but when it comes to actually making the movie, everything ends up looking standard and conventional.

ManaByte · Aug 16, 2004

American Dog is from the Lilo & Stitch creator...it will be good.

ge-man · Aug 16, 2004

Prospero--I know what you mean. The look of their films are being held back these days. They are just way to "cartoony" and not nearly as stylized as older Disney films (Sleeping Beauty for example).

Particle Physicist · Aug 16, 2004

ManaByte said:
American Dog is from the Lilo & Stitch creator...it will be good.

im glad he is still around after his studio was shut down .

Memles · Aug 16, 2004

Prospero said:
This reminds me of when I saw Gerald Scarfe's production designs for Hercules (which looked more like something out of Pink Floyd: The Wall than the final product). The preliminary sketches for Disney movies often look innovative, but when it comes to actually making the movie, everything ends up looking standard and conventional.

I agree...but this is Chris Sanders (Who Created Lilo and Stitch). Lilo and Stitch were based entirely on his original concept art for the picture. The watercolor, painted backgrounds were directly from his picture book that the pitch came from. I think, with Sanders especially, he likely drew those himself, and the actual movie will end up incredibly similar.

Tritroid · Aug 16, 2004

So I take it those rumors about Home on the Range being the last Disney Animated Film were just bs?

Also, if they actually do try a Rapunzel movie, it would mean that they're starting to wake up and realize that fairy tales sell, not this modernized Treasure Planet/Atlantis bullshit.

mattx5 · Aug 16, 2004

More pics of American Dog -

Memles · Aug 16, 2004

Tritroid said:
So I take it those rumors about Home on the Range being the last Disney Animated Film were just bs?

Also, if they actually do try a Rapunzel movie, it would mean that they're starting to wake up and realize that fairy tales sell, not this modernized Treasure Planet/Atlantis bullshit.

Hate to burst a bubble...but I am under the impression that all of these are primarily 3D, so Home on the Range remains the last of 2D Animation.

Tritroid · Aug 16, 2004

Memles said:
Hate to burst a bubble...but I am under the impression that all of these are primarily 3D, so Home on the Range remains the last of 2D Animation.

Oh really? Well that's really very sad.

Memles · Aug 16, 2004

Tritroid said:
Oh really? Well that's really very sad.

Mind you...if anyone can create some stylized 3D at Disney, Sanders is the guy to do it. His work on Lilo and Stitch was exceptional, and that concept art is 10x better than anything we've seen from Disney since then.

Trevelyon · Aug 16, 2004

I remember Mignola's concepts for Atlantis were awesome, but they did exactly come across in the final version.

Tritroid · Aug 16, 2004

Memles said:
Mind you...if anyone can create some stylized 3D at Disney, Sanders is the guy to do it. His work on Lilo and Stitch was exceptional, and that concept art is 10x better than anything we've seen from Disney since then.

His art style might be nice, but that wasn't enough to keep Lilo and Stich from sucking. Disney needs some truely epic stories again, like during the days of the 4 powerhouses (Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Lion King). Until they realize this, Disney will continue to crash and burn.

ManaByte · Aug 16, 2004

Tritroid said:
His art style might be nice, but that wasn't enough to keep Lilo and Stich from sucking. Disney needs some truely epic stories again, like during the days of the 4 powerhouses (Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Lion King). Until they realize this, Disney will continue to crash and burn.

Shut the FUCK up. Lilo & Stitch is the best American animated film since Brad Bird's The Iron Giant.

Tritroid · Aug 16, 2004

ManaByte said:
Shut the FUCK up. Lilo & Stitch is the best American animated film since Brad Bird's The Iron Giant.

Oh jesus.

Alucard · Aug 16, 2004

Tritroid said:
His art style might be nice, but that wasn't enough to keep Lilo and Stich from sucking. Disney needs some truely epic stories again, like during the days of the 4 powerhouses (Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Lion King). Until they realize this, Disney will continue to crash and burn.

Yes. More epic storytelling and no more song and dance numbers. Yes? Can we agree on the no song and dance numbers?

I liked Lilo and Stitch but it's nowhere near being a "great" animated movie. Comparing it to The Iron Giant is an insult to The Iron Giant.

Warm Machine · Aug 16, 2004

ManaByte said:
Shut the FUCK up. Lilo & Stitch is the best American animated film since Brad Bird's The Iron Giant.

I agree, I thought the screenplay for L&S was really witty.

Memles · Aug 16, 2004

Tritroid said:
His art style might be nice, but that wasn't enough to keep Lilo and Stich from sucking. Disney needs some truely epic stories again, like during the days of the 4 powerhouses (Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Lion King). Until they realize this, Disney will continue to crash and burn.

Lilo and Stitch is the best thing to come out of Disney since The Lion King.

Fuck Epic Stories...just get ones that aren't full of cliché. Lilo and Stitch was actually about characters, and about life, and it worked. The Emperor's New Groove wasn't an epic story, but it was meant to be a light-hearted comedy so it WORKED.

The best two things to come out of Disney since the epic era have been nothing like those epics. They tried Mulan, Pocahontas, Hunchback of Notre Dame; stories based on classic tales, and legend, and none of them clicked. The joy was gone from Disney. They moved away from musicals, and got raped for essentially introducing too much "Boys Only" Action/Adventure material.

I'll defend Lilo and Stitch for hours; it is everything Disney needs to strive for. Good at what it wants to be, no matter what that is. Good is key; epic is not necessary.

Tritroid · Aug 16, 2004

Honestly compare L & S to a past achievement of Disney's, like Lion King or B & B, and you can see WHY they're no longer as successful as they used to be. Some people may have actually liked L & S, for whatever reason, but it is no where near the type of animated achievements that Disney has previously brought to the table.

Memles · Aug 16, 2004

Alucard said:
Yes. More epic storytelling and no more song and dance numbers. Yes? Can we agree on the no song and dance numbers?

There have been no song and dance numbers since 1999's Tarzan (In the major Summer/Fall releases) outside of Home on the Range, which was kind of designed as a crazy musical in the first place.

Coincidentally, though, that's what gave those four films their charm. But, I say now, with Stephen Schwartz's passing, they should put the songs to rest. It's like Menken died with him, or something, quality wise.

Tritroid said:
Honestly compare L & S to a past achievement of Disney's, like Lion King or B & B, and you can see WHY they're no longer as successful as they used to be. Some people may have actually liked L & S, for whatever reason, but it is no where near the type of animated achievements that Disney has previously brought to the table.

Do NOT think I'm saying its better than either of those films...because it isn't. I loved the four classics you mention, will own the Platinum Edition DVDs of three of them as of early October, and hold them in high regard.

But what Lilo and Stitch was able to do was be an entertaining film. It was witty, it was beautifully animated, and it performed well at the box office. It was everything Disney needed. It appealed to boys and girls (It's two lead characters being a moody child and a space alien turned mutant dog), it had a tie-in to adults (Elvis)...it may not be for everyone, but the film was the first time since The Lion King that Disney had a complete picture.

sprsk · Aug 16, 2004

if the movies actually look like that, consider my faith in disney restored.

mattx5 · Aug 16, 2004

More pics of Rapunzel, this is supposedly going to be a hybrid of 2d and 3d animation, directed by Glen Keane.

Tritroid · Aug 16, 2004

Now that, actually looks pretty cool. And I like the idea of a 2D/3D hybrid.

speedpop · Aug 16, 2004

I enjoyed Lilo & Stitch quite a lot, probably the last Disney film I enjoyed after the Aladdin and The Lion King trumped around.

Disney does not have to be epic and bold constantly.. if I wanted epic and bold I'd be looking towards Studio Ghibli for pumping out another Nausicaa, which they did in Mononoke. This American dog figure reeks of Marco from Porco Rosso, which as far as I knew, is one of Chris Sanders' favourite animations. This isn't necessarily a bad thing at all since Porco Rosso is my favourite Hayao Miyazaki film

The art though immediately shoved my head in the toilet and made me enjoy it

ManaByte · Aug 16, 2004

mattx5 said:
More pics of Rapunzel, this is supposedly going to be a hybrid of 2d and 3d animation, directed by Glen Keane.

This too will be good.

JackFrost2012 · Aug 16, 2004

Lilo and Stitch is awesome, you are on crack if you don't like it! Best thing Disney did since Lion King, as someone else said.

Also, it's worth nothing that Chris Saunders was the voice of Stitch ... as if you needed another place his fingerprints were on the movie.

RobotChant · Aug 16, 2004

Tritroid said:
His art style might be nice, but that wasn't enough to keep Lilo and Stich from sucking. Disney needs some truely epic stories again, like during the days of the 4 powerhouses (Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Lion King). Until they realize this, Disney will continue to crash and burn.

That's what Disney has been chasing the pass few years. I say give it up already. In trying to replicate that, their movies lost a lot of what made them entertaining for both adults and kids. Their works the past few years have no humanity. Lilo & Stitch was a step in the right direction.

Mejilan · Aug 16, 2004

That concept art is fantastic. All of it except for that weird puppet boy crap.

Tritroid · Aug 16, 2004

Ok fine, maybe what I said about them needing to go for stories that are more epic was the wrong way to put it.

They need stories that are epic, yes, but with characters that are well-rounded and light-hearted while still having a serious attitude towards dire situations. Plus the stories themselves have to be entertaining for children, while nostalgic for adults. That's why fairy tales usually work the best in pleasing all demographics.

I think that's the problem with the moder modern-day Disney films; They're trying to reach to a more mature audience with films like Treasure Planet and Atlantis all the while shunning their target viewers. (Children under 13) I guess Lilo and Stich was a throwback to trying to gain the attention of children, but it wasn't something that adults could easily relate to or be interested in. There has to be a happy medium for the animation to work.

human5892 · Aug 16, 2004

Tritroid said:
Ok fine, maybe what I said about them needing to go for stories that are more epic was the wrong way to put it.

They need stories that are epic, yes, but with characters that are well-rounded and light-hearted while still having a serious attitude towards dire situations. Plus the stories themselves have to be entertaining for children, while nostalgic for adults. That's why fairy tales usually work the best in pleasing all demographics.

I think that's the problem with the moder modern-day Disney films; They're trying to reach to a more mature audience with films like Treasure Planet and Atlantis all the while shunning their target viewers. (Children under 13) I guess Lilo and Stich was a throwback to trying to gain the attention of children, but it wasn't something that adults could easily relate to or be interested in. There has to be a happy medium for the animation to work.

Well said. I think you just described the reason that all of Pixar's films (along with Dreamworks' Shrek films) have been such blockbusters.

JackFrost2012 · Aug 16, 2004

Tritroid said:
I think that's the problem with the moder modern-day Disney films; They're trying to reach to a more mature audience with films like Treasure Planet and Atlantis all the while shunning their target viewers. (Children under 13) I guess Lilo and Stich was a throwback to trying to gain the attention of children, but it wasn't something that adults could easily relate to or be interested in. There has to be a happy medium for the animation to work.

Lilo & Stitch is a dangerously subverisve and "adult" movie to be coming from Disney. Way more so than something like B&B or Aladdin.

Memles · Aug 16, 2004

Tritroid said:
I think that's the problem with the moder modern-day Disney films; They're trying to reach to a more mature audience with films like Treasure Planet and Atlantis all the while shunning their target viewers. (Children under 13) I guess Lilo and Stich was a throwback to trying to gain the attention of children, but it wasn't something that adults could easily relate to or be interested in. There has to be a happy medium for the animation to work.

I think it's less young and old, and more boys and girls. Finding Nemo has Sharks, but is about cute fish. It has a male hero (Nemo), and a female hero (Dory). It has something for all kids to relate to. Lilo and Stitch had Aliens and young girls. Treasure Planet...had a helluva lot of flying ships and explosions along with teenage angst, followed by a really annoying morphing thing that simply wasn't enough for cross-gender marketing. Atlantic suffered from the same problem, even moreso. I think that it's more about getting all kids into the audience. It's less that the Early 90s era is for Adults and Kids, more that there's something for all kids, and enough for adults to make it worthwhile.

I think Elvis did a fairly good job at least keeping some adults in the picture, for the most part, and there was definitely enough there that is kept me entertained...mind you, I was 16 at the time, but I still maintain it works for all ages.

We're heading into Fall, and we might see the same issues take shape.

October 1st sees Dreamworks' Shark Tale...I honestly think it looks pretty damn crappy. Will Smith's voiceover seems fairly terrible, and while it seems like it may have its moments...its plot seems thin. But, it's technically Nemo from the people who did Shrek to the kids. I even heard a woman in a lineup (For Spidey) looking at the poster anbd saying "I think it's the Shark from Finding Nemo". I was pretty close to correcting her, but decided against it. That alone will draw people in.

But...Pixar has The Incredibles. It has a definite young male appeal, being a superhero film, but it also has a young female member of the family, and that should at least balance things out.

Treasure Planet/Atlantic lacked this, and I think its more gender-based than some may realize.

speedpop · Aug 16, 2004

Memles said:
I even heard a woman in a lineup (For Spidey) looking at the poster anbd saying "I think it's the Shark from Finding Nemo".

Sometimes I still wonder how can people be so stupid, you know? Obviously they don't see the print down the bottom or whatever.. it's like those game players (which I can safely say, a friend of mine is part of) that don't go through the options/manual for a game BEFORE they play it, then proclaim such-and-such game to be the biggest pile of shit they've ever tried because quite simply they suck at it or don't know anything.

Maybe Billy Connolly was right. To help qualm those "the world is too over-populated" wankers, let's all take up cannibalism and eat stupid people or those who we hate.

Kiriku · Aug 16, 2004

Cool, Western animation with good art!!

human5892 · Aug 16, 2004

speedpop said:
Maybe Billy Connolly was right. To help qualm those "the world is too over-populated" wankers, let's all take up cannibalism and eat stupid people or those who we hate.

I'd have to eat for many, many days to get them all.

Plus I'm sure someone would eat me.

Alcibiades · Aug 17, 2004

Disney last powerhouse film was Pocahontas, that film rocked and nothing has matched it since (not counting Pixar films). Emperor's New Groove, Mulan, and Lilo & Stitch were good, but not classic like the Little Mermaid-Pocahontas era... That said, I need to sit down and give Hunchback of Notre Dame a try, I never really saw it straight, but I heard it was really good...

Jim Bowie · Aug 17, 2004

Alucard said:
It's probably just promo work. Either way, Disney has been running low on ideas for a while. Give us more movies like The Emperor's New Groove without the usual song-and-dance numbers.

IAWTP. I usually loathe acronyms, so this is a big thing for me.

Meier · Aug 17, 2004

Lilo and Stitch is amazing. I saw it the opening weekend and then again later and it in fact made me tear up both times. Seriously, it's touching, clever, beautifully animated.. it has all the makings of a timeless Disney classic in my opinion. I held off on getting the DVD before since it was so shitty and I knew there'd be a better one some day and I can't wait for the trumped up version that is coming soon.

Shinobi · Aug 17, 2004

Tritroid said:
So I take it those rumors about Home on the Range being the last Disney Animated Film were just bs?

I heard one of the voice actors from Brother Bear on the radio mention that he's been contacted by Disney to make a sequel. So who knows? Maybe they plan to make it 3D.

I don't get the whole "Disney needs epic to be successful" stuff. Jungle Book wasn't that epic. Fox and the Hound wasn't epic. The Rescuers' movies weren't epic. Disney just needs a fresh injection of ideas. The ridiculous need to throw in some cliche, wise cracking animal sidekick has GOT to go. All that shit has done is tried to play off the success of Timoan and Pumba in the Lion King, which only worked cause those two generally played off each other instead of Simba.

BarneyBP · Aug 17, 2004

Lilo & Stitch is one of the finest animated movies of the past decade.

Now then, I love Chris Sanders and Dean DeBlois (Is he on American Dog too, BTW?) and all. But that overgrown rabbit has to be related to Stitch. I know it's Sanders' style, I was just hoping for more variation. Likewise for the black and white sketch of the title dog in the cape.

belgurdo · Aug 17, 2004

Tritroid said:
His art style might be nice, but that wasn't enough to keep Lilo and Stich from sucking. Disney needs some truely epic stories again, like during the days of the 4 powerhouses (Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Lion King). Until they realize this, Disney will continue to crash and burn.

Anyway, at least this stuff is catching my interest more than whatever "rescue me" epic Pixar is planning next

levious · Aug 17, 2004

Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast and all the other Disney musicals sucked... if you liked those you should get into the far better musicals of the past, I can't stand them either though, after being practically raised on them.

Everything post-Oliver and Company for Disney could practically be called a 2d/3d hybrid... hopefully the hand-drawn look of Oliver, 101 Dalmations and others will come back someday - but with minimal musical numbers.

AssMan · Aug 17, 2004

Was James and the Giant Peach under Disney?

Jill Sandwich · Aug 17, 2004

efralope said:
... That said, I need to sit down and give Hunchback of Notre Dame a try, I never really saw it straight, but I heard it was really good...

Hunchback is very good, but it could have been a classic if they didn't club it to death with the 'comedy relief characters' stick.

Tritroid · Aug 17, 2004

efralope said:
Disney last powerhouse film was Pocahontas, that film rocked and nothing has matched it since (not counting Pixar films). Emperor's New Groove, Mulan, and Lilo & Stitch were good, but not classic like the Little Mermaid-Pocahontas era... That said, I need to sit down and give Hunchback of Notre Dame a try, I never really saw it straight, but I heard it was really good...

Hunchback of Notre Dame is actually a very good movie, probably one of my favorites from Disney. It wasn't that popular however because the story and approach was, for the most part all adult-themed, what with the judge singing about his 'burning desires' for Esmerelda and Esmerelda literally saying "You sneaky son of a..." and being stopped short. So children had a hard time grasping what was going on in this one.

It has really good songs though; "God help the outcasts" is probably the most down to earth song Disney has ever put in a cartoon. The animation is also top-notch.

FortNinety · Aug 17, 2004

I haven't seen Emperor's New Groove, nor do I have any interest, at least ever since I heard of what that film was supposed to be (far more epic in scale and scope, no song and dance numbers, no comedy, basically a totally different film, even had a different title).

BTW, where are these pics from?

Teddman · Aug 17, 2004

This development artwork is from the CG industry trade show, Siggraph (held at the LA Convention Center this year).

It's the E3 of the computer animation/special efx industry.

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