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Does anyone else feel bothered by how anti-police things have gotten online?

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Right off the bat since I know what people will instantly assume, so please read the whole thing.

I am aware of the abuses of police in the US and the way in which police can and do profile black people in out country. I make no excuses for it and recognize fully the need for reform which will properly train and weed out said behavior. Police are held to a high standard, as they should be. The death of Eric Garner was horrible and it ending with no consequences for his killer was eye-opening to me as to how uneven the application of justice could be in our country. One unarmed death is one too many and it would be a huge failure on our country to turn a blind eye.

With that said, this forum has become gross over the past few months. It's as if people don't recognize the need for the police, as if a sizable portion of this forum legitimately believe that if the police were just removed from the picture, places like Baltimore would be better off. I feel like legitimate anger has morphed into something else and people have lost sight of how the work police do is both dangerous and necessary. I honestly don't think I could do a job that stressful, and I doubt that many of you could either.

In that thread about the armored humvees earlier, posters were acting like it was an illegitimate purchase to make and putting it in the same category as purchasing high-powered weaponry. People are conflating offensive and defensive equipment simply because they are both military surplus. Do you oppose them using body armor? I'd certainly hope not.

Another category of this I've seen elsewhere but not here has been discrimination against black police officers. I follow the Facebook page "I Love Being Black", they generally post positive portrayals of African Americans and native Africans, but recently in a post about the first African American female police chief, things went a bit differently. The initial post wasn't overtly confrontational but the comments were loaded with calls of her being a traitor, including by the admin for the page. I've seen this before, but rarely as starkly as this. This seems hugely counterproductive to me as it discourages black people from pursuing jobs in law enforcement, which is probably the only real way to bring about long-term change in the worst offending departments.

These are just a few poorly constructed thoughts that have been jumping around in my head today. I think about stuff to post from time to time but rarely make threads. I went back and forth on posting this because I worry about people thinking I am diminishing the grievances of the black community, but it isn't my intent. This is not a thread dismissing "A Few Bad Apples", but yes I do feel that the majority of people who become police are doing it for the right reasons.
 
There's a LOT of police in the US. And they are VERY well armed. Nobody is saying that we don't need police. Not really sure what bothers you and what is being threatened...
 

potam

Banned
There's numerous problems with police in the US: militarization, excessive force, racial profiling, lack of punishment, etc.. But yeah, reading this forum you'd assume every police officer joined the force just to go hunt young black men (which is encouraged in official guidelines, and totally legal for cops).
 
They might do it for the right reasons, but they quickly become part of the corrupted root and begin to actively protect the bad/rotten elements.

And there's a reason why people are so anti police in the US. The same feeling doesn't exist in the UK so far as I know. Treat the people you're meant to serve and protect with respect and they'll respond in kind.

Treat them all like potential criminals and people who you can power trip on and it's no surprise there's a lack of respect and people are actively anti police.
 

Strictly

Member
Uncomfortable? Perhaps. But this is an important discussion that America needs to work through. It's better these angry voices, as misdirected some of them may be, happen now instead of being left unexpressed. As the saying goes 'its going to get worse before it gets better'. Better to spread the shit now, come to some sort of resolution/change, and then do the clean up/reconciliation later.
 

Two Words

Member
Mob mentalities are common in circumstances like this. While I do think at times the reaction towards police is too harsh or come to quick, it's something that can't be helped. It's not saying everybody has a mob mentality, but you pick up people who are far more extreme about it and vocal.
 
If you ask me, it's not so much that people hate the idea of police in general, but these specific policemen and the institution/culture behind them.
 

SamVimes

Member
In that thread about the armored humvees earlier, posters were acting like it was an illegitimate purchase to make and putting it in the same category as purchasing high-powered weaponry. People are conflating offensive and defensive equipment simply because they are both military surplus. Do you oppose them using body armor? I'd certainly hope not.
This has to do with the fact that police in the USA feels more and more like an army occupying the territory, they should be a part of the community instead of an outside force.
 
You think this is recent?

Shits been rotten since Rodney king and before that! Blacks have been unfairly treated by law enforcement for a long time. Then factor in the militarization and "blue shield" of the police force and you got a recipe for distrust and anger.

It's not that the U.S. Doesn't need cops, they need better cops i.e. those who aren't trigger happy, power tripping nut jobs.

Protect and serve, not terrorize and oppress
 
Aren't the actual abuses what we should be bothered with primarily, with anti-police sentiment on internet forums being quite a bit lower of the ladder of importance?

Actual murder is kinda worse than people making sweeping emotional statements online.
 

Razmos

Member
And there's a reason why people are so anti police in the US. The same feeling doesn't exist in the UK so far as I know. Treat the people you're meant to serve and protect with respect and they'll respond in kind.
It does in a sense. There's lots of "fuck the police" and aggro against cops.

One story that I wish I could forget is 5 years ago when a guy went nuts and started shooting people, including a police officer who was sat in his car.
There was a big mentality that the guy was a hero because he managed to avoid the cops. They called him a hero because he managed to give the cops a hard time and because he shot a cop (who was just minding his own business).

After removing the Facebook page, 21-year-old single mother Siobhan O'Dowd showed no remorse saying, she thought it "funny" how Moat had managed to evade capture for more than a week.

While recovering in hospital, Sam Stobbart also became the victim of a growing online hate campaign with hundreds of hate-filled messages posted on similar Facebook pages, many of which have "exposed a disturbing sickness at the heart of our society", a society in which a victim can be considered guilty of somehow having invited the crimes, and the overly aggressive, violent criminal, who had callously dominated the victim prior to his crimes, murders the victim's new boyfriend, maims a police officer, then terrorises a community, is considered a "legend" and the place of his death is made into a shrine by the public, who are now critical of the police for their role in the "heroic" villain taking his own life

Ms O’Dowd explained that she doesn’t agree with the shootings, saying that ‘they were a bit harsh’ but that Moat was a legend because he ‘hid from police for a week… that were funny. I think he’s a legend for keeping the police on their toes’.

The anti-police attitude in the UK is probably even more disgusting because it is completely unwarranted.
 

Verelios

Member
All I know is, what's the difference in copping a bullet from an officer or a criminal? I'm dead all the same.

Needs to change. Just because the police are being widely criticized, as they should be going off the past few decades, doesn't mean people don't realize how important they are. But at this point they're often more a detriment than a solution in people's minds. Rationalizing their issues away isn't going to help.
 

jmood88

Member
I can't say enough how tired I am of people complaining about how dangerous and stressful policing is as some kind of method of keeping people from criticizing them. It's not all that dangerous and there are plenty of stressful jobs that don't get the same kind of consideration. No other professions has so many people who rush to praise the employees for simply doing their jobs yet if someone talks about the very real systemic racism that has been present in police departments from pretty much the moment they were created in this country, we have people talk about how hard the job is and that we shouldn't be so quick to condemn the system as a whole because there are good police. Stop treating them like heroes and use the same critical eye you'd use for almost any other profession and you might see why a number of people don't like or trust them.
 

spunodi

Member
The anti-police attitude in the UK is probably even more disgusting because it is completely unwarranted.

Miner's Strike (Maggie's Boot Boys)
Hillsborough
Stephen Lawrence
Undercover Cops starting and abandoning families in protest groups
War on Drugs
Overreaction to protesters

Plus various other things that remain in the public consciousness.

Yes we are lucky in that they aren't acting like an occupational force but there are many things about UK police that don't inspire public confidence.
 

FZZ

Banned
Body Cameras and forcing Policemen to be accountable for their actions. No more paid leaves.

90% of people who hate police would go away just from those two things.
 
No, something should have been done decades ago and it's a shame it took this long and this many dead innocent people.

AND STILL barely anything is changing.
 

Razmos

Member
Miner's Strike (Maggie's Boot Boys)
Hillsborough
Stephen Lawrence
Undercover Cops starting and abandoning families in protest groups
War on Drugs
Overreaction to protesters

Plus various other things that remain in the public consciousness.

Yes we are lucky in that they aren't acting like an occupational force but there are many things about UK police that don't inspire public confidence.
That's true enough. It doesn't happen nearly as often as in the US though.

I'll admit that most of those things are before my time and I don't really remember them
 

Rafterman

Banned
It's not all that dangerous

You're an idiot. Please tell the multiple police men and women, who I personally know, and who have been shot, stabbed, beaten, run over, or whatever else that it's "not all that dangerous".


And, yes Op, this forum is fucking disgusting when it comes to the police. Any other group and the posters here would bend over backwards to not generalize or blame them all, but when it comes to cops it's constant shit flinging, they're all bad, blah, blah, blah.
 

spunodi

Member
That's true enough. It doesn't happen nearly as often as in the US though.

I'll admit that most of those things are before my time and I don't really remember them

They're largely before my time too, with exception to the War on Drugs. This is largely seen as an infringement of personal liberty and a distraction from "real" criminals (something I happen to agree with). It's also something that disproportionately affects the poor (and minorities - our stop and search for minorities though is apparently higher outside of urban areas).

I think there's some parallel here with the US. However they have lots of guns, much deeper and more overt racial divides, a legal system that isn't seen to punish police for lethal misconduct (we seem to be a lot better at that and the IPCC, whilst in need of reform is somewhat effective) and lots of surplus army equipment.
 

Toxi

Banned
The reason there is anti-police sentiment in the first place is because the police as a whole are earning that sentiment.

_80052406_025277248-1.jpg


You're an idiot. Please tell the multiple police men and women, who I personally know, and who have been shot, stabbed, beaten, run over, or whatever else that it's "not all that dangerous".
By job standards in the US?

It's much less dangerous than being in garbage collection or fishing based on the raw numbers. Hell, taxi drivers have a higher risk of fatal injury.
 

Lucifelle

Banned
The United States are just digging themselves into a huge hole. Poor social care as well as weak education and healthcare systems inevitably lead to people being forced into crime and poverty, except thanks to hilariously bad gun laws, these people are armed and so require police to be armed to the fucking teeth just to deal with them.

Now consider that the media trick people into fighting tooth and nail against any real solutions being introduced, add a healthy dose of blind nationalism and bam. The United States: A culture of incompetence.
 

Ratrat

Member
Nope. What's happening is disgusting. The fact that they're pretty much guaranteed to get away with it and that these stories aren't even surprising anymore is what is disgusting.
 
I can't say enough how tired I am of people complaining about how dangerous and stressful policing is as some kind of method of keeping people from criticizing them. It's not all that dangerous and there are plenty of stressful jobs that don't get the same kind of consideration. No other professions has so many people who rush to praise the employees for simply doing their jobs yet if someone talks about the very real systemic racism that has been present in police departments from pretty much the moment they were created in this country, we have people talk about how hard the job is and that we shouldn't be so quick to condemn the system as a whole because there are good police. Stop treating them like heroes and use the same critical eye you'd use for almost any other profession and you might see why a number of people don't like or trust them.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...mber-of-police-officers-killed-spikes-in-2014

I know you'll probably dismiss it since it includes vehicle related deaths, but that figure seems pretty high to me given there being only around 800k cops in the country. Moreover, let's not forget that just because someone didn't die doesn't mean that no one tried to kill them.
 
When everyone's comfortable, nothing changes. Some people do take it to extremes switch their expression of distaste for the institution of policing as it operates, but there are also a large number of people in the forum who find the police justified in any action they take, especially if the person injured or killed committed any crime, no matter the magnitude. These people also tend to remain silent when the officer(s) in question are found to be lying and/or unequivocally in the wrong.

At any rate OP, if it really bothers you you should speak to a mod about helping to make the forum more palatable for you.
 

Nightbird

Member
The reason there is anti-police sentiment in the first place is because the police as a whole are earning that sentiment.

_80052406_025277248-1.jpg

That Image is so powerful, and really describes what's wrong.

Too many Cops thinking about themselves first even though their Job is it to help and protect the people first
 

faridmon

Member
Yes, but again I am not American. We don't have as many horror stories of Police here in UK and we sort of respect them.
 

Toxi

Banned
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...mber-of-police-officers-killed-spikes-in-2014

I know you'll probably dismiss it since it includes vehicle related deaths, but that figure seems pretty high to me given there being only around 800k cops in the country. Moreover, let's not forget that just because someone didn't die doesn't mean that no one tried to kill them.
50 police officers were killed by firearms in 2014. That is less than 1 percent of 1 percent of 800k.

So forgive me if that doesn't actually sound particularly troubling to me.
 

GorillaJu

Member
In the light of recent events it's perfectly understandable to lose faith in the police, but a lot of comments I read here have taken that logical conclusion to its completely illogical and extreme end - that ALL police are terrible thugs that are enemies of the people. The most frustrating thing is that people think it's valuable to create anti-police sentiment. I think all that's going to do is put you in danger in their presence, where you weren't necessarily endangered before.
 

Jackpot

Banned
No, it's an accurate reflection of the state of policing today. In fact I've come across several police corruption articles I debated making a thread on and decided against, so if anything not anti-police enough.
 

jmood88

Member
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...mber-of-police-officers-killed-spikes-in-2014

I know you'll probably dismiss it since it includes vehicle related deaths, but that figure seems pretty high to me given there being only around 800k cops in the country. Moreover, let's not forget that just because someone didn't die doesn't mean that no one tried to kill them.

First, lol at you suggesting I'd ignore anything. Secondly, did you even read the article you posted?

One important asterisk to this news: While gun deaths of officers have increased, they still remain 12-percent lower than the decade-long average of 57.

"Firearms-related fatalities peaked in 1973, when 156 officers were shot and killed. Since then, the average number of officers shot and killed has decreased
from 127 per year in the 1970s to 57 per year in the 2000s," the report notes.
 
The police are critical to the people as every city/town budget expense report shows. No one says otherwise. However, the status quo or worse is unacceptable. There are many problems to resolve.
 

_Nemo

Member
Absolutely not. It's about damn time voices are raised against them. It's the first step towards reform, and we've only begun to scratch the surface. If you're already bothered at this point, then I don't know what to say.
 
50 police officers were killed by firearms in 2014. That is less than 1 percent of 1 percent of 800k.

So forgive me if that doesn't actually sound particularly troubling to me.


Even 1 in 10,000 would be ridiculously high. And your standard is ridiculous as well.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/23/us/new-york-police-attacked/

Would you seriously argue that this case isn't murder simply because it didn't involve a gun?

So it's safer these days. Not sure how that article supports your claim.

America in general is the safest it's ever been. Pretty much any statistic related to violence will follow a downward trajectory similar to that. This is not the same as saying that the actual figure is low.
 
Unfortunately the police unions position to defend damned near every case of police brutality and the officers involved and the blue wall of silence taunts all cops in some people's mind.
 

Toxi

Banned
Even 1 in 10,000 would be ridiculously high. And your standard is ridiculous as well.
Okay, so we have the enormous jump from 50 to 126, counting vehicular homicide and undisclosed "other". Still absurdly low.

I have no idea how you can argue with a straight face 1 in fucking 10,000 is "ridiculously high", especially when we've provided data that the rate of fatal injury in other industries easily dwarfs that of law enforcement. I don't see anyone talking about how the garbage collectors have it so dangerous.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/23/us/new-york-police-attacked/

Would you seriously argue that this case isn't murder simply because it didn't involve a gun?
Did you read the article? It wasn't murder because neither of the police officers died. The only guy who died was the one with the axe.
 

Obviously things are vastly different in the UK, I have 2 good friends that are in the police in the UK. One of them has been assaulted once in his 3 years of service so far, both of them though have to deal with loads of shit that most people forget about.

Constant verbal abuse, spat on, pissed on, sick on, shit thrown at them, being some examples that don't fall into stats that would be captured as injuring you at work but are completely disgusting.

Some of the stories they have of things they have had to do put me off ever really considering being in the police as any sort of viable career.

In the US things seem completely fucked though, it's hard to see how that's going to be fixed when being in the police comes across in general as some sort of power trip. There are police that are good people I am sure but it only takes a small % of nutters to ruin it for everyone. Police in the US seem to keep employing these people so it's hard to feel it's anyones fault but their own, certainly not the fault of the people being assaulted and murdered.
 

DiscoJer

Member
I am bothered by there being so much focus on the police, and not the underlying conditions that are causing the problems in the first place.

IMHO, the biggest problem is that the government (and companies with ties to the government) is using law enforcement to generate revenue.

On the local level (fines) to the state level (for profit prisons), all the way to the federal level (Drug war).

The focus should be on stopping people from hurting other people. Not boosting the government's budget (so they can in turn spend that money on even more law enforcement, which in turn brings in more money).
 

highrider

Banned
No. I had a Facebook friend post something to the effect of if you don't support police unfriend me. I think that's the mentality that is most damaging. What you see now is the result of years of being held up as heroes and being above reproach. Not to mention the power tripping bullies the profession unfortunately attracts.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
If there weren't so many murders committed by police nationwide and didn't target minorities constantly there wouldn't be so much hate.
 
The US police force are fucking terrifying, so I've no trouble seeing why everyone's starting to get extremely angry and fearful of them.

But there's always going to be simmering tensions with any police force.

There's too much room for corruption and abuse of power, too many occasions where government and business interests are put ahead of the publics, and simple resentment of uniformed authority figures.

On top of that, remember that even the best police officers get jaded and suspicious from constantly having to deal with terrible situations and the worst members of our societies.

My neighbours a UK policewoman. Absolutely lovely person, very left wing, married to a musician, loves her dog, and very involved with the local community in her free time. But whenever she talks about her work, you can just feel the world weariness and bitter disappointment in humanity radiating off her. The few times I have seen her on duty, she treats everyone with at best cold professionalism, if not open suspicion as a potential criminal.

Given what she has to see and deal with constantly though, I completely understand that she and all cops pretty much have to act that way.
 
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