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Crossing Eden · Jul 5, 2016

One of my biggest gripes with the last two mainline Zelda games and 3D Zelda in general excluding Wind Waker was how stiff Link and other characters.

The last one especially shows the kind of improvement i'm talking about, before in 3d Zelda, Link's hit reactions were these stiff animations that went by a little too fast, example, Skyward Sword

Now thanks to physics Link reacts in a much more natural and less stiff way compared to before.

Another thing is the cutscenes, seemingly due to the fact that we're FINALLY getting legitimate voice acting in a modern Zelda game, we will no longer have important cutscenes interrupted by a prompt to press A if the demo is any indication. Another gripe I had that they seem to be paying attention to this time around is paying much more attention to animating Link's hands in a more believable way compared to skyward sword, speaking of, Skyward Sword would occasionally have scenes that had no pause or press A to continue button. But a lot of important scenes were constantly interrupted by a prompt to press A accompanied by a transition to a pause/loop. Leading to what was imho lot of awkward moments and some annoying pacing. Just wanted to highlight this particular aspect of the new Zelda, which according to Miyamoto was a big focus, it shows.

egruntz · Jul 5, 2016

The artistic direction really helps with this too. Very impressed overall. And it's not quite so fluid/floppy that it looks like ragdoll physics.

Neoxon · Jul 5, 2016

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who noticed.

RoyaleDuke · Jul 5, 2016

To be honest it just reminds me of wind waker.

But that is okay because Wind Waker is in my top 3 Zelda games.

ViolentP · Jul 5, 2016

Reminds me of Wind Waker with a different aesthetic.

James Scott · Jul 5, 2016

I think it's partially due to the physics engine, right? The last gif certainly is.
I really like the monster designs in this one in comparison to the ugly bokoblins I'm TP and SS. They're bat-like, for whatever reason and they're more appealing to look at while still being menacing.
Miyamoto, that guy that's pretty important but people seem to dislike, worked on the animation to make it feel natural (kind of like what he did in Mario 64) and it shows.

Neoleo2143 · Jul 5, 2016

In gameplay I don't think the animation is that great, but it's probably super tight control wise first and foremost before the animation work gets tightened up. It's good to see some cloth dynamics though. More animations in climbing would be needed too.

Crossing Eden · Jul 5, 2016

RoyaleDuke said:
To be honest it just reminds me of wind waker.

But that is okay because Wind Waker is in my top 3 Zelda games.

Wind Waker also has the best character animation during the gameplay in any 3D Zelda, (excluding the cutscenes in Skyward Sword and ofc BOTW).

TheGreatMightyPoo · Jul 5, 2016

Stupid nitpick but I wish Link turning red when hit would be more stylized.

Choppasmith · Jul 5, 2016

Crossing Eden said:
Another thing is the cutscenes, seemingly due to the fact that we're FINALLY getting legitimate voice acting in a modern Zelda game, we will no longer have important cutscenes interrupted by a prompt to press A if the demo is any indication. .

This is a big thing for me. With Skyward Sword they put SO much effort into the facial expressions in cutscenes that having to READ what they were saying was such a letdown. It really looked they were going for voice acting, and made the cutscenes as such, but then decided to chicken out at the last second.

LelouchZero · Jul 5, 2016

The animations are amazing, and the art style of the game is such a beauty too look at!

It was jaw dropping to see how they implemented ragdoll physics, it's soo smooth and works soo well!

Crossing Eden · Jul 5, 2016

Choppasmith said:
This is a big thing for me. With Skyward Sword they put SO much effort into the facial expressions in cutscenes that having to READ what they were saying was such a letdown. It really looked they were going for voice acting, and made the cutscenes as such, but then decided to chicken out at the last second.

Not to mention it led to absolutely strange moments where due to the lack of VA the mocap actors sometimes had to do some really out there movements for some of the scenes which again, due to the pausing/looping led to some awkward pacing and ofc other issues like hands not being touched at all just made some scenes look weird.
This is Link explaining in Skyward Sword

Then there's Ghirahim:

Baroquemantic · Jul 5, 2016

I don't think it's all that great, to be honest. It's certainly better than in past games, but I don't find it impressive.

UnemployedVillain · Jul 5, 2016

Crossing Eden said:
Not to mention it led to absolutely strange moments where due to the lack of VA the mocap actors sometimes had to do some really out there movements for some of the scenes which again, due to the pausing/looping led to some awkward pacing and ofc other issues like hands not being touched at all just made some scenes look weird.

Pretty sure Ghirahim's were intentional

John Kowalski · Jul 5, 2016

It still feels comical and authored which is nice but i've always liked the cute and stiff animations in Zelda. Kind of a lo fi charm to it all.

Aters · Jul 5, 2016

Baroquemantic said:
I don't think it's all that great, to be honest. It's certainly better than in past games, but I don't find it impressive.

Yeah it's on par with current gen games and much better than previous games, but we've seen UC4.

Mihael Mello Keehl · Jul 5, 2016

John Kowalski said:
It still feels comical and authored which is nice but i've always liked the cute and stiff animations in Zelda. Kind of a lo fi charm to it all.

Thing is they're still in there. Its all good

LordOfChaos · Jul 5, 2016

I like the little moment where the old mans soul orb or whatever goes into Links chest, and then he looks at the camera/the viewer with concern. The engine and art lend to a lot of expressiveness.

Crossing Eden · Jul 5, 2016

Baroquemantic said:
I don't think it's all that great, to be honest. It's certainly better than in past games, but I don't find it impressive.

I'm talking relative to past 3D Zelda games. It's a huge improvement in that regard and finally comparable to current gen standards.

UnemployedVillain said:
Pretty sure Ghirahim's were intentional

It was but there's not really any time or flow in comparison to the words actually being spoken. Text is just appearing while the dude does an interpretive dance.

Gravidee · Jul 5, 2016

Crossing Eden said:
Not to mention it led to absolutely strange moments where due to the lack of VA the mocap actors sometimes had to do some really out there movements for some of the scenes which again, due to the pausing/looping led to some awkward pacing and ofc other issues like hands not being touched at all just made some scenes look weird.
This is Link explaining in Skyward Sword

Then there's Ghirahim:

It first became evident in TP as you had characters making those gestures and mouth flaps moving, with no sound coming out. But it really got worse by SS because the characters got a lot more expressive in terms of motions but were simply reduced to pantomiming due to lack of voices.

rhandino · Jul 5, 2016

Breath of the Wild certainly look great and I enjoyed looking at random streams to see how Link react to different events.

Some little details I loved about that is when he receives an Spirit Orb from a Sheikah Sage after beating a temple he absorbs it on his chest and his eyes start moving like "Well, this does not feel bad all..." or when he activates the Sheikah Slate for the first time he does this small movement of surprise at the device while keeping it a little away from him like it's going to explode.

I also have to say that the enemies looks incredible lively with a lot of little touches about them like the Bokoblins in one stream that had a spear on fire but when his weapon broke before hit he started to look around for more weapons and started to dig the ground for a rock to throw and the whole thing was so smooth looking and thats not even getting in how abstract Calamity Ganon looks during that one cutscene in which he seems to change forms on the fly.

Its kind of amazing to me how this game looks and feels like an Studio Ghibli film in so many ways, even more than Ni no Kuni.

zma1013 · Jul 5, 2016

The animation in gameplay appears to be similar to past titles, except for the inclusion of the ragdoll physics which appear to come into play when Link gets killed or knocked around.

Akainu · Jul 5, 2016

Eh it really isn't.

You have that gif of him running but it looks even worse when he sprints.

John Kowalski · Jul 5, 2016

Mihael Mello Keehl said:
Thing is they're still in there. Its all good

Yeah seems like they found a good balance.

Ragdoll Link still looks all kinds of disturbing though.

Crossing Eden · Jul 5, 2016

zma1013 said:
The animation in gameplay appears to be similar to past titles, except for the inclusion of the ragdoll physics which appear to come into play when Link gets killed or knocked around.

Animation blending in general is much better, (finally no TP walk cycle..) and everything in general is much less stiff.

John Kowalski said:
Yeah seems like they found a good balance.

Ragdoll Link still looks all kinds of disturbing though.

Falling to his death is hilarious since he lands and just plops over instead of the screen cutting to black.

chadboban · Jul 5, 2016

Akainu said:
Eh it really isn't.

You have that gif of him running but it looks even worse when he sprints.

Are you saying that the animation in this game isn't better than the last two 3D Zelda games? Because that's kinda what this thread is about.

Newtype-001 · Jul 5, 2016

RoyaleDuke said:
To be honest it just reminds me of wind waker.

But that is okay because Wind Waker is in my top 3 Zelda games.

Same

Akainu · Jul 6, 2016

chadboban said:
Are you saying that the animation in this game isn't better than the last two 3D Zelda games? Because that's kinda what this thread is about.

I guess if you are measuring in terms of millimeters.

KrawlMan · Jul 6, 2016

Neoleo2143 said:
In gameplay I don't think the animation is that great, but it's probably super tight control wise first and foremost before the animation work gets tightened up. It's good to see some cloth dynamics though. More animations in climbing would be needed too.

Definitely needs variety in that climbing animation. Looks awful when he's climbing longer stretches. Almost like there's some invisible ladder on every surface.

Crossing Eden · Jul 6, 2016

KrawlMan said:
Definitely needs variety in that climbing animation. Looks awful when he's climbing longer stretches. Almost like there's some invisible ladder on every surface.

Considering how the world is built it would be very difficult to organically create great animations for such all of the varied geometry, (remember this is a WiiU open world game not to mention a Zelda game), OR, it would be less free and probably be like MGSV where only specific points are climbable.

Akainu said:
I guess if you are measuring in terms of millimeters.

Have you recently played an older Zelda game?

Schlorgan · Jul 6, 2016

It looks really stiff. Almost like they pulled an RE5 and reused animations just on different models.

UncleSporky · Jul 6, 2016

The old animation, at least that particular one in the OP, seems to have been designed to be snappy like that in a cartoony way. I don't think it's bad, I think it's just traditional animation techniques, maybe not even mocap.

BY2K · Jul 6, 2016

Crossing Eden said:
Then there's Ghirahim:

God, you can SEE Ghirahim's hamminess just by his movement. Imagine him with VA.

Lke, Tim Curry or something.

udivision · Jul 6, 2016

Eh...

I don't think it's significantly better.

Neff · Jul 6, 2016

I dunno if I'd call it an improvement, at least not without having played it. Realism isn't always better. In this case, If I get knocked down, I want to be back on my feet as quickly as possible.

Tech rolls in Zelda pls

Wowfunhappy · Jul 6, 2016

Can't agree about the lack of Skyward Sword voice acting. I thought they handled it really, really well, and it came across as a stylistic choice rather than a budgetary or technical measure (regardless of what their motivations actually were in reality).

By contrast, I really disliked the lack of voice acting in Wind Waker and (what I've played of) Twilight Princess.

MarcoZombieCannon · Jul 6, 2016

Schlorgan said:
It looks really stiff. Almost like they pulled an RE5 and reused animations just on different models.

A lot of the sword animations are ripped straight from Skyward Sword, so...

Which is also probably a lot of the reason for the right-handedness and not the BS they came up with.

KingdomHeartsFan · Jul 6, 2016

Is it just me or is Link teleporting to the horse in the first gif.

Yonafunu · Jul 6, 2016

I just really don't like the sprint animation.

Crossing Eden · Jul 6, 2016

Yonafunu said:
I just really don't like the sprint animation.

It took Nintendo, (after WW), three games to finally nail a believable Link walk cycle in 3D. Here's hoping the next Zelda will have a more natural looking sprint. As i'm not a big fan of the way it looks either. Glad nothing in the game reminds me of TP though.

foxuzamaki · Jul 6, 2016

My phone is probably gonna explode being in this thread but I agree

PowderedToast · Jul 7, 2016

running animation still isn't good. i wonder how much that keyframe differs from ocarina? everything else is on par at best.

while more anatomically realistic (so can't be compared 1:1), when you look at something like uncharted 4 it completely blows away anything this game is doing in terms of fidelity, attention to detail, or progressive technical application.

Vampirolol · Jul 7, 2016

Game still needs better animations though.

IronicSonic · Jul 7, 2016

Climbing and gliding (specially at the beginning of E3 trailer) are stiff and weird as hell though

Backfoggen · Jul 7, 2016

The eyes still need work. Links weird centered stare looks bad.

KojiKnight · Jul 7, 2016

IronicSonic said:
Climbing and gliding (specially at the beginning of E3 trailer) are stiff and weird as hell though

Little things like that are likely the final polish. You don't necessarily finish tweaking the animations till close to the end.

Lucumo · Jul 7, 2016

That first .gif is so wrong. Not just the warping, but the climbing of the wild horse as well.

Crossing Eden · Jul 7, 2016

PowderedToast said:
running animation still isn't good. i wonder how much that keyframe differs from ocarina? everything else is on par at best.

while more anatomically realistic (so can't be compared 1:1), when you look at something like uncharted 4 it completely blows away anything this game is doing in terms of fidelity, attention to detail, or progressive technical application.

Define attention to detail as that is an incredibly broad term, it's also strange to compare a linear game with open areas that are barely interactive in any way to a systemic open world game.

Lucumo said:
That first .gif is so wrong. Not just the warping, but the climbing of the wild horse as well.

It's actually really right. He grabs the horse, props his leg on it while pulling himself up and then pulls his entire body over the horse, all while the horse is startled. The vast majority of Link's character animation is stylized in a similar way. He should have a contextual pouncing esque animation where he quickly runs up towards the horse instead of teleporting into position tho. That would be a bit less jarring.

mindsale · Jul 7, 2016

Lucumo said:
That first .gif is so wrong. Not just the warping, but the climbing of the wild horse as well.

Shadowstep horsetaming is one of the perks of the Triforce of Courage (alongside bottomless inventory).

Mory Dunz · Jul 7, 2016

It's better...but not really that much. The physics for getting hit is the only significant change imo.

Skyward Sword already had good animation

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