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Tiktaalik · Oct 21, 2006

I just finished reading EGM's Gears of War feature, and I am finding myself very turned off by the ability for your character to "curb stomp" other players.

For those who have who have not read the feature, Cliffy B says when talking about a move you can do on a bleeding badguy, that, "You essentially do that scene from American History X, which is the curb stomp." You stomp his head in on the ground, killing him as a finishing move.

I'm sure it's a bit hypocritical to say that I have no issue with the guns and the chainsaw, but maybe that's because I've been de-sensitized by the number of chainsaw killer movies. Here though they're emulating the one and only curb stomping scene in cinema, which isn't about a faceless crazed killer killing anyone randomly, but a racially driven cold blooded murder by essentially a normal guy. I don't know why you would want to emulate that in a game.

It has been a long time since game makers have made violent games just for the sake of putting more violence in games, Mortal Kombat, and the unreleased Thrill Kill are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head, and I'm not exactly sure why we're returning to that.

I find it amusing that Cliffy B says, "We want to make sure the visual fidelity is so significant that your mom would be like,'Wow, Billy. I'll spend $299 on this system for you.'" If parents know of the content of this game I don't know how many are going to spend $299 on it for their kids. :lol

Honestly if I had the option, I wouldn't want to be able to curb stomp in the game. Maybe I'm getting to old (at 23?), but it's too much. I have no issue being brutally violent to stupid beetles or other lowly baddies, or the "zombies" of Resident Evil 4, but it's a different thing being violent to a person.

Core407 · Oct 21, 2006

The enjoyment factor will disappear pretty quickly.

Wario64 · Oct 21, 2006

Enjoyment factor or not, curb stomping gives you extra points IIRC from the article. So you actually get rewarded for it

Lo-Volt · Oct 21, 2006

I'm somewhat surprised that Cliffy went right to the AH:X comparison, because that scene was beyond grisly and brutal. I think it was one of the most disturbing scenes I've seen in movies, so comparing a video game to something like that, even if it's rated M, is a bit of a turnoff.

jvalioli · Oct 21, 2006

It bothered me a little that he got the curb stomp idea from American History X, especially since the only scene it appears in is when the Neo-Nazi guy is exercizing White Power. But it isn't that big of a deal.

nincompoop · Oct 21, 2006

Will there be a prison level where your enemies gang up on you and anally rape you?

Truelize · Oct 21, 2006

Wario64 said:
Enjoyment factor or not, curb stomping gives you extra points IIRC from the article. So you actually get rewarded for it

I'll admit I'm excited about it, but at the same time I do think it's a little harsh.

raYne · Oct 21, 2006

No.

Core407 said:
The enjoyment factor will disappear pretty quickly.

Exactly. It's only shocking/amazing the first couple times you do it. After that, you'll get used to it and it'll become pretty "eh". Then you'll only do it because of the points.

SnakeXs · Oct 21, 2006

No. Stop being a sissy. You admitted you're a hypocrite. Creating imaginary lines of what's going "too far" in a game like Gears is silly. Curb stomping in Mario? Too far. In Gears? Fits right in.

You don't ever have to do it, though. You can always just point blank execute them if you please.

unifin · Oct 21, 2006

It kind of bugs me how CliffyB specifically cites American History X as the inspiration for this "finishing move," without aking into context when and why it was performed in the movie...

... I wouldn't have a problem with this being performed on the aliens in SP, but if it's in multi... the racist bastards on Live are going to have a ball with this.

sublime085 · Oct 21, 2006

The Locust Horde have feelings? Seriously, if the violence bothers you just don't play it. I don't want rainbows in my multiplayer matches. Curb stomping? Yeah, I do.

citrus lump · Oct 21, 2006

nincompoop said:
Will there be a prison level where your enemies gang up on you and anally rape you?

It will be called "A Tribute to GAF"

Zep · Oct 21, 2006

unifin said:
the racist bastards on Live are going to have a ball with this.

Don't play with random people[/gaf

Brobzoid · Oct 21, 2006

If it's a swift and fast animation it's an awesome finisher. but if they set it up and have it last 10 seconds it's gonna grow old fast. The actual shock-value is pretty moot, since there are so many ****ed up things happening in games and movies all the time now. a curb stomp is nothing.

sugarhigh4242 · Oct 21, 2006

i thought the same thing when i heard about it.

but i probably wouldn't feel that way if my only experience with "curb stompting" wasn't in such an intense, meaningful film.

I think the problem is that there's a conception that Gears of War is going to be a sort of "pop" video game, compared to American History X, which most people recognize as art. So it feels kind of wrong to have a very meaningful scene in an artistic film debased in a frivolous video game.

However, very few of us have played Gears of War, and even fewer have played it in full. So its unfair to draw these kinds of conclusions (assuming my conclusions are the same as yours), until we see the final product.

EBCubs03 · Oct 21, 2006

In AHX did it show the actual gore and stuff? I don't remember it in the movie, all I remember was it showing the guy lift his leg up and it didn't show any of the actual stuff. Was I watching a censored version or something?

sugarhigh4242 · Oct 21, 2006

EBCubs03 said:
In AHX did it show the actual gore and stuff? I don't remember it in the movie, all I remember was it showing the guy lift his leg up and it didn't show any of the actual stuff. Was I watching a censored version or something?

no, they don't show it. but the intensity of Edward Norton's character, and the sound of his teeth against the curb evokes a very visceral reaction.

Tiktaalik · Oct 21, 2006

SnakeXs said:
No. Stop being a sissy. You admitted you're a hypocrite. Creating imaginary lines of what's going "too far" in a game like Gears is silly. Curb stomping in Mario? Too far. In Gears? Fits right in.

You don't ever have to do it, though. You can always just point blank execute them if you please.

Maybe... but I think there is some value to drawing imaginary lines for what may or may not be "too far" in games. Otherwise like someone brought up jokingly earlier we could find ourselves playing a game where rape is a finishing move.

"Yeah when her health is low you can rape her to finish her off. You get an achievement if you do 50."

BocoDragon · Oct 21, 2006

This game is war porn.. what do you expect? I find it interesting that a moral line should be drawn down the center of something like Gears of War.... violent gun death = okay? violent curbstomping death = not okay?

I can understand getting squemish from it, but this isn't network television, it's an M rated War videogame for the bleepin Xbox..... there is already a world of videogames that won't offend your sensibilities... this is a flagship title for gratiutious videogame violence. This is the time and place for curbstomping.

unifin · Oct 21, 2006

sugarhigh4242 said:
i thought the same thing when i heard about it.

but i probably wouldn't feel that way if my only experience with "curb stompting" wasn't in such an intense, meaningful film.

I think the problem is that there's a conception that Gears of War is going to be a sort of "pop" video game, compared to American History X, which most people recognize as art. So it feels kind of wrong to have a very meaningful scene in an artistic film debased in a frivolous video game.

However, very few of us have played Gears of War, and even fewer have played it in full. So its unfair to draw these kinds of conclusions (assuming my conclusions are the same as yours), until we see the final product.

Yes, because Epic games, you know, are known for making artistic, intellectually and aesthetically stimulating ga-... oh wait.

Nothing against Gears itself as a game, but trying to justify "curb-stomping" in a videogame as part of the game's "Art" is just ridiculous.

sublime085 · Oct 21, 2006

You're right it doesn't actually show the action. Just the set-up, and the horrific sound that follows.

Any comparison between the game and this movies strikes me as completely irrelevant.

By the way, American History X isn't all that good. Too many unrealistic, two-dimensional charcters.

Pureauthor · Oct 21, 2006

*shrugs*

It's gratuitous violence for the sake of gratuitous violence. I don't like that in the first place, but in the context of a game like this, it's nothing out of the ordinary.

unifin · Oct 21, 2006

sublime085 said:
You're right it doesn't actually show the action. Just the set-up, and the horrific sound that follows.

Any comparison between the game and this movies strikes me as completely irrelevant.

By the way, American History X isn't all that good. Too many unrealistic, two-dimensional charcters.

Joke character confirmed?

perryfarrell · Oct 21, 2006

Curb stomp?

bigmakstudios · Oct 21, 2006

Enjoyment factor or not, curb stomping gives you extra points IIRC from the article. So you actually get rewarded for it

So... what are you trying to say? It won't be fun, but you'll get points for it? So... why can't you just get points for something that is actually fun?

sublime085 · Oct 21, 2006

Harold is such a Nancy.

shuri · Oct 21, 2006

Because yes, that movie invented curb stomping

Oldschoolgamer · Oct 21, 2006

Just because I don't know...do they actually show whomever positioning their jaws on the curb, or do they just stomp their head in? If they just stomp their heads in the ground then, Jill valentine and co have been curb stomping way before now.

DeathbyVolcano · Oct 21, 2006

I forget, did the curb-stompee die in AH:X?

SpacLock · Oct 21, 2006

I see where you're coming from, but i'm going to be curb stomping the shit out of people like it's my job when this damn game comes out.

unifin · Oct 21, 2006

BrandNew said:
I forget, did the curb-stompee die in AH:X?

....
......................

jimbo · Oct 21, 2006

I'm sorry, call me sick, but I am the type of guy who was shooting the guards in Splinter Cell

A yesterday and getting pissed off because my bullets aren't ripping the flesh off of them down to the bone. I beat innocent civilians with baseball bats in Grand Theft Auto just for fun then I blow up the EMS truck that tries to save them. I then try to run them over with my car until they are one with the road. I sliced necks, hands and legs in Ninja Gaiden and couldn't get enough. I kicked zombie's heads off in Resident Evil, and I wish they had included a goal. I made a snuff film in Manhunt(which btw, went a lot further than GoW so you should go back and check when your line was crossed) in the most disgusting, mutiliating manner and ENJOYED watching the replays. As far as curb stomping? I CAN'T WAIT! And I hope I can do it repeatedly so that way when I get frustrated in the game, I can take out my frustration on a Locust head.

And you know what? That's how I like my games. In real life? I wouldn't hurt a damn fly. Ok well maybe a fly, but cats and dogs? I am sucker for pets. And I BREAK for squirrels.

So I say leave my violent games just the way they are because it gives us all a way of doing really crazy, immoral things that most of us would never do in real life. That's a big part of this fantasy world we like to play in. And while I can understand your turn-off, it's simple: Just don't buy it. But if not, please don't try to start an activist movement either.

Tieno · Oct 21, 2006

40 seconds into this clip you can see a curb stomp being performed in GOW multiplayer. Since it's in a 'tight space' you can't see it that well, but it's pretty quick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFR_mAJxNls

sugarhigh4242 · Oct 21, 2006

jimbo said:
I'm sorry, call me sick, but I am the type of guy who was shooting the guards in Splinter CellA yesterday and getting pissed off because my bullets aren't ripping the flesh off of them down to the bone. I beat innocent civilians with baseball bats in Grand Theft Auto just for fun then I blow up the EMS truck that tries to save them. I then try to run them over with my car until they are one with the road. I sliced necks, hands and legs in Ninja Gaiden and couldn't get enough. I kicked zombie's heads off in Resident Evil, and I wish they had included a goal. I made a snuff film in Manhunt(which btw, went a lot further than GoW so you should go back and check when your line was crossed) in the most disgusting, mutiliating manner and ENJOYED watching the replays. As far as curb stomping? I CAN'T WAIT! And I hope I can do it repeatedly so that way when I get frustrated in the game, I can take out my frustration on a Locust head.

And you know what? That's how I like my games. In real life? I wouldn't hurt a damn fly. Ok well maybe a fly, but cats and dogs? I am sucker for pets. And I BREAK for squirrels.

So I say leave my violent games just the way they are because it gives us all a way of doing really crazy, immoral things that most of us would never do in real life. That's a big part of this fantasy world we like to play in. And while I can understand your turn-off, it's simple: Just don't buy it. But if not, please don't try to start an activist movement either.

you sound like a future Wii owner... :lol

Uno Ill Nino · Oct 21, 2006

Just think of it as being like tea-bagging in Halo 2 or any other FPS online. On paper, it sounds horrendous. In-game, its pretty funny, but gets old when done out of malice instead of fun.

I think we're imagining it too vividly as well. You're more than likely just stomping on the guy's head and squishing it. Its not like you're getting your teeth on a curb that suddenly appears. I'm sure it'll be quick and not unlike having your head blown apart from a sniper round or something.

SnakeXs · Oct 21, 2006

Zaxxon said:
Maybe... but I think there is some value to drawing imaginary lines for what may or may not be "too far" in games. Otherwise like someone brought up jokingly earlier we could find ourselves playing a game where rape is a finishing move.

"Yeah when her health is low you can rape her to finish her off. You get an achievement if you do 50."

While I do agree a line may exist, comparing violence to something like rape is, to me, as silly as using the "if we let gays marry what will people marry next, animals?" arguement. It holds no weight in the context of this discussion.

In the context of the game, it fits. "Art" schmart, people hold it to high light because of the film, and that's fine. But it's not some gimmick. I agree it may get old fast, but it fits. You're fighting a race that has wiped out your planet, destroyed everything you know, and caused how much m ore personal pain? I know it sounds overdramatic, because y ou know, it's just a video game, but it makes sense.

DeathbyVolcano · Oct 21, 2006

unifin said:
....
......................

Well I haven't seen the movie in a long time. I forget. I remember seeing a clip of it and I thought "oh damn his teeth will never be the same." But that's it.

Andy787 · Oct 21, 2006

SpacLock said:
I see where you're coming from, but i'm going to be curb stomping the shit out of people like it's my job when this damn game comes out.

I don't know why, but this made me laugh. :lol

Uncle · Oct 21, 2006

Pureauthor said:
It's gratuitous violence for the sake of gratuitous violence.

Yeah, because it doesn't affect gameplay at all, right? Especially the multiplayer. No, sir.

sublime085 · Oct 21, 2006

BrandNew said:
Well I haven't seen the movie in a long time. I forget. I remember seeing a clip of it and I thought "oh damn his teeth will never be the same." But that's it.

Yeah, his Ortodontics bill was crazy.

SnakeXs · Oct 21, 2006

sublime085 said:
Yeah, his Ortodontics bill was crazy.

He better get his HIP card out.

Pureauthor · Oct 21, 2006

Uncle said:
Yeah, because it doesn't affect gameplay at all, right? Especially the multiplayer. No, sir.

Because there was absolutely no other way to make a kill, and let other people know it.

Note: Just because it aids gameplay in some way doesn't mean it's actually needed (or useful).

Oldschoolgamer · Oct 21, 2006

Tieno said:
40 seconds into this clip you can see a curb stomp being performed in GOW multiplayer. Since it's in a 'tight space' you can't see it that well, but it's pretty quick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFR_mAJxNls

That is weak as ****ing hell! I thought it was like AH:X. Resident Evil has been doing this FOR YEARS!!! Man...I swear i thought is was some cinematic, because of the way you all were talking about it. I really don't see what the problem is. This is not new in videogames...

Not a Jellyfish · Oct 21, 2006

Zaxxon said:
I just finished reading EGM's Gears of War feature, and I am finding myself very turned off by the ability for your character to "curb stomp" other players.

For those who have who have not read the feature, Cliffy B says when talking about a move you can do on a bleeding badguy, that, "You essentially do that scene from American History X, which is the curb stomp." You stomp his head in on the ground, killing him as a finishing move.

I'm sure it's a bit hypocritical to say that I have no issue with the guns and the chainsaw, but maybe that's because I've been de-sensitized by the number of chainsaw killer movies. Here though they're emulating the one and only curb stomping scene in cinema, which isn't about a faceless crazed killer killing anyone randomly, but a racially driven cold blooded murder by essentially a normal guy. I don't know why you would want to emulate that in a game.

It has been a long time since game makers have made violent games just for the sake of putting more violence in games, Mortal Kombat, and the unreleased Thrill Kill are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head, and I'm not exactly sure why we're returning to that.

I find it amusing that Cliffy B says, "We want to make sure the visual fidelity is so significant that your mom would be like,'Wow, Billy. I'll spend $299 on this system for you.'" If parents know of the content of this game I don't know how many are going to spend $299 on it for their kids. :lol

Honestly if I had the option, I wouldn't want to be able to curb stomp in the game. Maybe I'm getting to old (at 23?), but it's too much. I have no issue being brutally violent to stupid beetles or other lowly baddies, or the "zombies" of Resident Evil 4, but it's a different thing being violent to a person.

In no way do i think they are putting violence in gears for the sake of doing it. that is a very close minded opinion. the amount of blood they use may look to be too much but that is because realisticly game do not use the amount that would really happen if someone unloaded a clip into a person. also curb stomping did not originate in american history x or was it a racist gesture at all. I lived in brooklyn new york for the majority of my life and anyone there knows it originated in the formation of new york city and was carried on threw gang culture and mafia culter in the city. it was a thing mainly done to people who spilled information. it was a way of insuring they could never talk again because cutting out tounges was something that not even a mob guy could pull himself to do. they do have familys.

Uncle · Oct 21, 2006

Pureauthor said:
Because there was absolutely no other way to make a kill, and let other people know it.

It fits the style of the game perfectly. Of course they could hug each other to death as a finsiher, but why should they? So that overly sensitive people would have less to bitch about?

Pureauthor · Oct 21, 2006

Uncle said:
It fits the style of the game perfectly. Of course they could hug each other to death as a finsiher, but why should they? So that overly sensitive people would have less to bitch about?

Well, the game is based around gratuitous violence in the first place, so I'm not sure how that hurts my point. :lol

Surreal · Oct 21, 2006

Tieno said:
40 seconds into this clip you can see a curb stomp being performed in GOW multiplayer. Since it's in a 'tight space' you can't see it that well, but it's pretty quick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFR_mAJxNls

That guy talking has some kind of speech impediment...

Anyways, I think it's a bit over the top, but people have been desensitized to violence so much it doesn't matter. In America anyways.

Phobophile · Oct 21, 2006

If you're not comfortable to handle fiction, don't play the game. Simple as that.

Scrow · Oct 21, 2006

citrus lump said:
It will be called "A Tribute to GAF"

heh, do you know one of the acronyms GAF stands for?

Amir0x · Oct 21, 2006

Nah, I love this type of shit. Wish more games would go that extra satisfyingly crunchy mile with ultraviolence!

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