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Apple faces multibillion tax bill in EU ruling
- Thread starter Piecake
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SporeCrawler
Member
I have mixed fealings on this.
On one hand I fucking hate big corporations paying almost no tax due to some offshore tax haven loophole. At least this now clarifies that a off shore tax haven will be hard to establish within the EU.
on the other hand, those stupid governments have created and already accepted those tax evasion methods by their laws and their rulings. As much as I hate the tax evasion that has been going on there should be a basic security regarding rulings the states make.
I understand that Apple and other corporations will be able to deduct those taxes paid in the EU according to US tax law.
On one hand I fucking hate big corporations paying almost no tax due to some offshore tax haven loophole. At least this now clarifies that a off shore tax haven will be hard to establish within the EU.
on the other hand, those stupid governments have created and already accepted those tax evasion methods by their laws and their rulings. As much as I hate the tax evasion that has been going on there should be a basic security regarding rulings the states make.
I understand that Apple and other corporations will be able to deduct those taxes paid in the EU according to US tax law.
Has Ireland been punished by the EU for allowing companies to avoid taxes?
bennywhatever
Member
The US exists because of European tax law.
Granted, that was over 200 years ago. I actually agree with the tax in this situation.
Of the things I defend when it comes to big tech companies, tax dodging doesn't really make the list.
THE ONLY negative thing I could say is that it MIGHT have negative repercussions for Ireland, with it becoming less of a tech tax haven... Aside from that though, this is good I think
THE ONLY negative thing I could say is that it MIGHT have negative repercussions for Ireland, with it becoming less of a tech tax haven... Aside from that though, this is good I think
ajfoucault
Member
Devastating for Apple.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Good. I'm an American, and fuck Apple for their shameful tax avoidance practices (and a host of other stuff).
The thing is, they whole shebang respected Irish law, but not EU law, and EU law supersedes Irish law.
Apple has some 200b of cash at hand, and they make 50b of net profit per year. They'll manage.
Kind-of - the infamous "Irish Double" is already getting phased out, as decided in 2014. It's not available for anyone new, and is expiring for most, with the last holdouts in 2020.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
Yeah because Apple is the only company that does....
SporeCrawler
Member
I understand that the loose tax regime is considered as a forbidden indirect subvention. therefore the beneficiary of the subvention (for example apple) has to pay the benefit they got from the forbidden subvention back to the government.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Fuck all the other companies that do it, as well. Is that better now? Because I truly mean that. I wasn't just implicating them...
Interfectum
Member
Go after the big ones first.
what other stuff?
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
One less ivory back scratcher.
While it might be a long-term punishment if these sorts of rulings result in ending Ireland's status as a tax haven, Ireland seems to be benefiting from the tax deals to get these companies to set up shop in Ireland and then benefiting again by being paid money in back-taxes when the EU calls out the shady deals
Seems kinda fucked up to me
sono
Member
I have to admit when I read the op that thought went through my mind. It sounds like Apple might consider they have fallen foul of what may seen as be a policy change on which they based commercial decisions, which may in fact be a defence
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
They are already going after Fiat and Amazon, with more to come. I'm unsure about Google's situation, but they better ly low with everything that's coming after them at this very moment.
The argument is that Apple and the Irish government negotiated ad hoc taxation schemes not offered to other businesses, hence being considered illegal state aid. Regardless of the outcome, they have them nailed to the wall.
a Master Ninja
Member
I hear Apple might have to stop putting headphone jacks in their phones just to make ends meet.
While I agree Multinationals should play their rightful tax, tax avoidance = / tax evasion.
Short-term, it's only a benefit, as the tax they'll be collecting from this will be treated as a windfall and used to pay off some national debt. Long-term, however, I can't imagine this sets a good precedent for attracting more foreign investment. Corporation tax remains 12.5%, however.
This is what I want to know. Couldn't open the actual article because I don't subscribe and correct me if I'm wrong, but why is Apple the only one being punished here? If Ireland knew they couldn't supersede EU laws, why would they grant something like this and not face punishment.
Problem is that EU laws supersede national laws. In this case, Ireland's law counted as "statal help" for the company, because it essentially made them pay less taxes compared to other companies. It's something that goes around often in europe, Italy and its industries for example have been sanctioned many times because of statal helps, which go against the "fair competition" principle that goes on inside of the EU.
EDIT: read about Fiat and Ilva's cases if you want to read about sanctions from the EU to industries and states which help unfairly industries with public money (usually with extremely well designed tax exemptions laws, like in the Apple's case in Ireland).
People shouldnt really blame Apple. Its Irelands fault really. Its their state-aid which is illegal. The problem with this type of behaviour is that it leads to a race to the bottom therefore we need all member states to take responsibility and not fall for the temptation of attracting big companies by sacrificing their tax systems integrity. If everyone did like Ireland every member state would have 1 % corporate tax etc
Gentleman Jack
Member
now wiping coke off my monitor.
How exactly does that work when EU nations tax companies at different rates?
It seems a bit odd to me that a super-national organization would overlook differences in tax rates that would cause an unfair advantage for companies in the lower taxed nations, but come down hard on nations that give tax benefits to individual companies.
I'm not really comfortable with the whole "If it's legal it's moral" thing.
When two parties collude to gain an advantage over everyone else, both should be blamed.
Starbucks had to pay back the Dutch government recently over a tax deal that was ruled unlawful, iirc.
My man. Insert "The Rock clapping.gif" right here.
Visualante2
Member
Facebook, Amazon, Starbucks will soon follow if this is successful.
So what is Obama's response? He has nothing right?
So what is Obama's response? He has nothing right?
Way ahead of me then!
killer rin
Member
Good, hopefully they can get every other large corporation as well.
I can't view the Financial Times article since it's behind a paywall, but this is how Tim Cook addressed the subject in that Washington Post interview he did recently:
There's a little more in the interview covering the potential of a tax reform in the US and the allegation that Ireland gave Apple a special deal.
There's a little more in the interview covering the potential of a tax reform in the US and the allegation that Ireland gave Apple a special deal.
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
Countries all have to get together and make these companies pay taxes on earnings made in each individual country.
I am personally a fan of simply getting rid of the corporate tax and simply increasing the income (wealthy) and capital gains tax to make up for it. Seems far more simple, and you can avoid all of this nonsense and complicated schemes to get these companies to not hunt for the best deal
True Savior
Member
Beautiful.
That way, all the tax revenue flows to the investors' country, instead of the country where the products are being sold. Even easier to avoid.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
I hope people realize on a national level one day the amount of money companies are keeping stashed away in other countries. By now its probably 3 trillion.
To compare, the federal reserve says there is 1.5 trillion in circulation.
Greed is not good, at least anymore.
To compare, the federal reserve says there is 1.5 trillion in circulation.
Greed is not good, at least anymore.
whatsinaname
Member
Must be nice. I'll try negotiating with the IRS on my next tax payment. "I think your tax rates are too high. I'll pay my tax 10 years down the line if you reduce the tax rate".
entremet
Member
Many of these companies are also set up by individuals. They're not real companies and act as tax shelters. But they really don't do anything.
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