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Renekton · Dec 10, 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n33tsoDZZU0

So Mike and Ryan (friends of AVGN) did a blind test with some normal gamers and the results are mixed. So the Pro maybe is something that only gamers very cognizant of IQ and paper specs would care about.

Carnby · Dec 10, 2016

no offense OP, but these are the last guys I would get impressions from. They complain about software and firmware updates anytime they boot up a game that was made in the last decade.

edit: Nevermind, they got an audience's opinion for this video.

Inuhanyou · Dec 10, 2016

James and Mike are usually "old men yells at cloud" type of people in regards to console gaming, so people should check their expectations from something like this(i have not yet watched it)

From James it makes sense, cause he's a family man and is generally not into gaming that much these days, but Mike comes off as just annoying cause he is still into a lot of core gaming aspects.

Oublieux · Dec 10, 2016

Carnby said:
no offense OP, but these are the last guys I would get actually impressions from. They complain about software and firmware updates anytime they boot up a game that was made in the last decade.

I think the point is that these people are supposed to be representative of the majority of gamers, not as in tune or tech savvy as NeoGAF.

Edit: Or, well, that's what they were aiming for.

QisTopTier · Dec 10, 2016

Should have used ff15

ghibli99 · Dec 10, 2016

I get so annoyed with videos like these... like the girl complaining about the weight of the Pro. Why is that even a factor? Do you play with the console sitting in your lap? I get it... it's for entertainment partially, but if the point is to compare the systems, stuff like that dilutes the intent.

My take is that if you're buying a Pro, you know what you're buying it for. R&C, Rez, FF15, First Light, Bound, etc., have all delivered on what I was expecting out of the Pro. Just wish it had UHD Blu-ray support as the icing on the cake.

Edit: The whole video is based on ONE game (UC4)? Come on now.

BlanketFort · Dec 10, 2016

Renekton said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n33tsoDZZU0

So Mike and Ryan (friends of AVGN) did a blind test with some normal gamers and the results are mixed. So the Pro maybe is something that only gamers very cognizant of IQ and paper specs would care about.

"20% couldn't tell the difference"? I honestly expected that number to be higher.

Davey Cakes · Dec 10, 2016

I'm not surprised by the responses at all. A lot of the upgrades will make marginal differences to the average person.

If I wanted to get a PS4 I'd go Slim. Easily. I have a 32" Smart TV. I'll reap little benefit from going Pro.

Carnby · Dec 10, 2016

"the general public feels the same way, this god damn thing is a catastrophe."

yes, Mike, all 5 people you interviewed is the general public.

ghibli99 said:
I get so annoyed with videos like these... like the girl complaining about the weight of the Pro. Why is that even a factor? Do you play with the console sitting in your lap?

"Why? Why? Whhhhhyyyyy?"

Sorry ghibli, the general public have spoken.

Ishida · Dec 10, 2016

I absolutely love James and his work. Huge AVGN fan here.

But those two are some of the last gamers in the planet I would take opinions on modern gaming from. As another user put it, they are basically old men yelling at clouds all the time. Whenever they try something newer than a Sega Genesis they go into grumpy mode.

EmiPrime · Dec 10, 2016

They only used one game (Uncharted 4) and it's not one of the more obvious upgrades either...

Dishonored 2, Ratchet & Clank and Tomb Raider are night and day comparisons.

LowParry · Dec 10, 2016

Yeeeeeeeaaaah no.

Mr. Hyde · Dec 10, 2016

Some games give better performance while others give better iq. However, I don't think we will see a big difference until games like Horizon Zero comes out. Judging from the comments of the developer, it should be impressive. It's hard to give impressions until the 2017 ps4 big hitters come out.

Ebisumaru · Dec 10, 2016

People commenting without having seen and without any willingness to see the video. Ok.

In my opinion, most of the complaints in the video are legit. The upgrade is not worthy for the average gamer.

family_guy · Dec 10, 2016

I personally think having a high quality 4kTV with HDR is more important than which PS4 you have since both models have HDR support and I think that's what makes the biggest difference visually. Of course framerate is a different story and the Pro is what you should get if this is an issue for you.

Renekton · Dec 10, 2016

Inuhanyou said:
James and Mike are usually "old men yells at cloud" type of people in regards to console gaming, so people should check their expectations from something like this(i have not yet watched it)

Ishida said:
But those two are some of the last gamers in the planet I would take opinions on modern gaming from. As another user put it, they are basically old men yelling at clouds all the time. Whenever they try something newer than a Sega Genesis they go into grumpy mode.

To be fair, only Mike is the conservative one here and he plays off Ryan who is enthusiastic about new tech.

Inuhanyou · Dec 10, 2016

And i watched it.

No offense Mike, but your test was completely inconclusive. You got super normal people, many of which who don't know about gaming at all in general, and have them nickpick over the size and shape of the console, and then just put them in front of a TV and told them to chose which one was better, and then used that to somehow prove a point?

They would not know what to look for in general as an upgrade. That's like the DVD versus Bluray, Bluray versus 4KBR debate. Normal people arent going to know what's better or what isn't even if you show it to them.

You could technically put a PS3 and a PS4 in front of a lot of these folks and they would not know the difference in fidelity

MrMephistoX · Dec 10, 2016

I agree no one but me is going to notice and I'm happy with my purchase even at 1080p but I mostly got a pro to have the best VR performance: it's not for everybody but I'm even noticing Overwatch looks crisper and more fluid.

Back-In-Black · Dec 10, 2016

A bit of a limited comparison though I do think there was some sub-conscious manipulation going on. I don't think that was there intent but they told everyone which console was physically the PS4 Pro and then when they did their comparison had the consoles placed on opposite ends of each other, each in front of a TV (though swapped in terms of what actual TV was running). Thus, subconsciously I would expect a person to believe that the TV with the Pro in front of it would naturally be the better looking display.

What they should have done was remove any consoles from in front of the person and just have two exact TV's running the different consoles which would be out of view. This would eliminate any sort of subconscious assumptions.

Coonce · Dec 10, 2016

Ishida said:
I absolutely love James and his work. Huge AVGN fan here.

But those two are some of the last gamers in the planet I would take opinions on modern gaming from. As another user put it, they are basically old men yelling at clouds all the time. Whenever they try something newer than a Sega Genesis they go into grumpy mode.

James isn't even IN this video?

I thought the video was sort of telling as the general "public" has no idea what the differences are.

When I went to best buy one day, a worker was explaining HDR to someone and they looked so confused.

MrCunningham · Dec 10, 2016

Inuhanyou said:
James and Mike are usually "old men yells at cloud" type of people in regards to console gaming, so people should check their expectations from something like this(i have not yet watched it)

From James it makes sense, cause he's a family man and is generally not into gaming that much these days, but Mike comes off as just annoying cause he is still into a lot of core gaming aspects.

This is a Mike & Ryan video. They do a survey with a bunch of people that they knew. The PS4 is being used as a catalyst to get people on board with 4K, but it's appeal seems to be limited to visual/ audiophiles now. Though I think a lot of new adopters will go with the Pro just because "It's better".

Inuhanyou · Dec 10, 2016

MrCunningham said:
This is a Mike & Ryan video. They do a survey with a bunch of people that they knew. The PS4 is being used as a catalyst to get people on board with 4K, but it's appeal seems to be limited to visual/ audiophiles now. Though I think a lot of new adopters will go with the Pro just because "It's better".

I already watched it as i said

And of course your correct, but that's basically the way to sell TV's, computers and every other electronic to unassuming costumers, just tell them its better and they'll buy it. Take it from a guy who used to work in retail

Justinh · Dec 10, 2016

Ishida said:
I absolutely love James and his work. Huge AVGN fan here.

But those two are some of the last gamers in the planet I would take opinions on modern gaming from.

I think this is how I feel.

I dunno, the way the people looked so disinterested make me feel like they're not really people towards whom the PS4 Pro is marketed anyways. I guess there is some merit in seeing what "regular folk" think about the Pro, though.

Back-In-Black said:
A bit of a limited comparison though I do think there was some sub-conscious manipulation going on. I don't think that was there intent but they told everyone which console was physically the PS4 Pro and then when they did their comparison had the consoles placed on opposite ends of each other, each in front of a TV (though swapped in terms of what actual TV was running). Thus, subconsciously I would expect a person to believe that the TV with the Pro in front of it would naturally be the better looking display.

This is an interesting point.

MAX PAYMENT · Dec 10, 2016

Renekton said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n33tsoDZZU0So the Pro maybe is something that only gamers very cognizant of IQ and paper specs would care about.

This is exactly what I side in the launch thread and got shit on.

aadiboy · Dec 10, 2016

I mean, it's pretty obvious the Pro was for more hardcore gamers in the first place, not sure how talking with average people is going to accurately represent the audience actually playing the game.

Inuhanyou · Dec 10, 2016

MAX PAYMENT said:
This is exactly what I side in the launch thread and got shit on.

5 people in a room not being able to tell the difference between one game is not exactly the same as store goers being interested in a 'better' version of a console they might already own.

Not take away from your point any, but that is the case. That is why its an inconclusive type of study.

As long as the games are the exact same, the overt appeal will be limited to those savvy of the differences, but mainstream consumers can run right out and buy if they are sold on the concept.

About the only thing i agree on is that the appeal of the better graphics of Pro for the average consumer is going to be much less than the appeal of lower prices of the Slim

cyborgnumberblue · Dec 10, 2016

I skipped around the video to try to find an answer, but are they running it all on a 1080p set?

I believe that it has already been stated multiple times that the benefits on a 1080p set are negligible so I have no idea what the hell these dudes are trying to prove.

Inuhanyou · Dec 10, 2016

cyborgnumberblue said:
I skipped around the video to try to find an answer, but are they running it all on a 1080p set?

I believe that it has already been stated multiple times that the benefits on a 1080p set are negligible so I have no idea what the hell these dudes are trying to prove.

Its a 4K screen, Mike mentions right before they do the study

MrCunningham · Dec 10, 2016

cyborgnumberblue said:
I skipped around the video to try to find an answer, but are they running it all on a 1080p set?

I believe that it has already been stated multiple times that the benefits on a 1080p set are negligible so I have no idea what the hell these dudes are trying to prove.

They said that they used two identical 4K TV's, but they never said if they enabled HDR or anything like that on the Pro.

jack.... · Dec 10, 2016

If you can't tell the difference between 1080p and 4K/HDR two feet from the screen then consider yourself lucky that you never have to upgrade again, I guess?

TriAceJP · Dec 10, 2016

I can't play World of Final Fantasy and my enhancement patch for FFXV isn't out yet.

It was a waste for me, that's for sure.

shadow2810 · Dec 10, 2016

Tbf I almost couldn't tell the difference between FFXV 4k and light mode, on my 4k OLED TV.

trixx · Dec 10, 2016

would you spend the money to upgrade?

"Fuck no, who the fuck would do that?"

Spat out my drink

I probably couldn't tell the difference either

Izuna · Dec 10, 2016

I do believe that the average gamer wouldn't notice the difference. After all, even people on GAF have shitty TV settings and like the use of fake sharpness etc.

--

Wow this is like the exact reaction I'd get from my BFF...

EventHorizon · Dec 10, 2016

I've been saying all along that the PS4 Pro isn't as big a deal as everyone has been making it out to be. It's just a better version of the high end console, hard drive space only increase we saw last generation, and with the XB1 now. Does anybody complain that the Xbox One S 2TB Console - Gears of War 4 Limited Edition Bundle looks exactly like a base XB1 S but with a bigger hard drive? On that alone this is a pretty stupid comparison because it is a false premise that the Pro has to show a phenomenal increase in graphics.

With all that said, this is also a useless comparison because the Pro's advantage will grow as games come out specifically made for it, and not just quickly ported over to support it. We seem to have to go through this discussion every time new console hardware is released. The initial games are underwhelming, but then as time goes on games start to be optimised for the new capabilities and quality improves. For example compare the PS4 launch titles to Horizon or God of War. The same thing will happen as developers have more time with the PS4 Pro.

DangerMouse · Dec 10, 2016

Even though we don't have the enhancement patch yet I still think FFXV looks better in the high res with hdr mode.

Try and stick them in front of something like Rachet. You'll see it instantly.

spannicus · Dec 10, 2016

Only reason i havent bought one yet. Doesnt seem worth it to me.

petethepanda · Dec 10, 2016

Even the "Pro" name itself already suggests it'll only appeal to the hardcore niche.

LowParry · Dec 10, 2016

spannicus said:
Only reason i havent bought one yet. Doesnt seem worth it to me.

Worth it for the stable 30 fps with TLG. Every damn penny worth.

trixx · Dec 10, 2016

Back-In-Black said:
A bit of a limited comparison though I do think there was some sub-conscious manipulation going on. I don't think that was there intent but they told everyone which console was physically the PS4 Pro and then when they did their comparison had the consoles placed on opposite ends of each other, each in front of a TV (though swapped in terms of what actual TV was running). Thus, subconsciously I would expect a person to believe that the TV with the Pro in front of it would naturally be the better looking display.

What they should have done was remove any consoles from in front of the person and just have two exact TV's running the different consoles which would be out of view. This would eliminate any sort of subconscious assumptions.

Yeah this might be true in some cases, and I was thinking the same thing as well.

Astral Dog · Dec 10, 2016

PSPro is for enthusiasts, PS4 for the Masses

jett · Dec 10, 2016

Hahaha did they made this video just due to the hate they got from the previous one?

While I find both of them to be rather clueless in general, especially Mike, this is almost an interesting video. The idea is there but the content is not. They used a very limited, dark section of Uncharted 4, and only used that one single game.They were just interested in pushing their notion the Pro is a POS as a "TOLD YOU SO" for their audience. Which is kinda funny. And kinda sad.

I agree though that now the Pro seems like a somewhat poor idea, at least with the content that it's out there. Things might change if developers start targeting the Pro and the regular PS4 receives gimped-ass versions of games.

spannicus · Dec 10, 2016

CcrooK said:
Worth it for the stable 30 fps with TLG. Every damn penny worth.

Lol i would think that game should already be a stable 30fps on the OG PS4.

Beerman462 · Dec 10, 2016

Seems pretty representative of gamers in general. Your average consumer isn't going to see value in the PS4 Pro(especially without UHD Blu Ray). They had one tech head that said he would upgrade, because he's an enthusiast(Average GAF poster).

I love my 6600K/1070 combo, but games still looked great on my 2400/7870 combo just at a lower frame rate.

I really think pushing for higher frame rate on consoles would be a noticeable selling point.

tesqui · Dec 10, 2016

Well, when games start to run like absolute shit on the standard PS4, then I'll be more interested in the Pro. Then again this is already happening with TLG, but that might just be because of it's crazy development. Regardless, it is a bit worrying that a first party title is running really bad on the base PS4 already.

I really don't like this multi tier console future.

prwxv3 · Dec 10, 2016

tesqui said:
Well, when games start to run like absolute shit on the standard PS4, then I'll be more interested in the Pro. Then again this is already happening with TLG, but that might just be because of it's crazy development. Regardless, it is a bit worrying that a first party title is running really bad on the base PS4 already.

I really don't like this multi tier console future.

TLG was going to run badly on the OG even if the pro did not exist. Ueda games have always had bad performance.

GodParticle · Dec 10, 2016

I know one of the people they used has a gaming review channel heh

Savitar · Dec 10, 2016

Mike always reminds me of Norman Bates for some reason.

99Luffy · Dec 10, 2016

Honestly I could barely tell the difference on some PS3 games compared to their 1080p counterparts on PC.
Differences are harder to tell 5-7' away from the TV compared to sitting 2' away from your computer screen.

Beerman462 · Dec 10, 2016

Back-In-Black said:
A bit of a limited comparison though I do think there was some sub-conscious manipulation going on. I don't think that was there intent but they told everyone which console was physically the PS4 Pro and then when they did their comparison had the consoles placed on opposite ends of each other, each in front of a TV (though swapped in terms of what actual TV was running). Thus, subconsciously I would expect a person to believe that the TV with the Pro in front of it would naturally be the better looking display.

What they should have done was remove any consoles from in front of the person and just have two exact TV's running the different consoles which would be out of view. This would eliminate any sort of subconscious assumptions.

So a simple sub-conscious trick totally invalidated any positives of owning a PRO? Sounds like another reason to not upgrade truthfully.

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