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Anandtech breaks down Scorpio specs + predictions

wachie

Member
Anandtech with their very well put together initial take on the Scorpio specs.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11250/microsofts-project-scorpio-more-hardware-details-revealed

Take note of the last point especially, very interesting as I havent see any other outlet raise it.

On CPU cores
AMD technically has several cores potentially available for Scorpio: Excavator (Bulldozer-based, as seen on 28nm), Jaguar-based (also from 28nm) or Zen based (seen on 14nm GF). While the latter is a design that has returned AMD to the high-end of x86 performance computing, offering high performance for reasonable power, a Zen design would be relatively quick turnaround from a consumer launch a month ago. Because of the time frame, even if Microsoft could go for Zen in the Scorpio, this would increase the base cost of the console by redesigning the cores on 16nm TSMC.

In the Digital Foundary piece, Microsoft stated that the CPU portion of Scorpio has a 31% performance gain over the Xbox. This isn't IPC, this is just raw performance. Moving from Jaguar to Zen would be more than 60%, and actually the frequency difference between the 2.3 GHz in Scorpio and 1.75 GHz in Xbox One is exactly 31%. So we are dealing with a Jaguar-style core (although perhaps modified).

That being said, this is a ‘custom’ x86 core. Microsoft could have requested specific IP blocks and features not present in the original Jaguar CPUs but present in things such as Zen, such as power management techniques. Typically a console shares DRAM between the CPU and GPU, so it might be something as simple as the CPU memory controller supporting GDDR5. So instead of seeing Zen coming to consoles, we’re seeing another crack at using Jaguar (or Jaguar+) but revised for a smaller process node to keep overall costs down – and given that the main focus on a console is the GPU, that’s entirely possible.

GPU
Now there is a bit of nuance here, as AMD’s GPU architecture is offered piecemeal: the shader cores, the memory controllers, the display controllers, etc are all separate blocks that can be mixed and matches. This is how the PS4 Pro uses just parts of Vega. So it’s entirely possible that there are other bits and pieces in Scorpio that are newer than Polaris, however the all-important shader cores and ROP backends clearly point to Polaris.

Diving into the specs a bit deeper, we do have the clockspeeds and configurations for both the GPU and the memory. Scorpio’s GPU is a 40 CU (2,560 SP) wide design – a bit wider than the Radeon RX 480 – which is a rather extensive upgrade over the original Xbox One. Ignoring clockspeeds for the moment (more in a sec), just the CU count itself is 3.33 times the 12 CUs in the original XB1. Similarly, Microsoft has doubled the number of ROP backends from 16 to 32. The ROP change is badly needed in order for Microsoft to reach their 4K goal, and it has been a pretty universal suspicion that the original XB1’s 16 ROPs were a big part of the reason that major multiplatform games tend to go with 900p instead of a native 1080p.

Meanwhile on the clockspeed front, the new GPU is clocked at 1172MHz, giving Microsoft 6 TFLOPS right on the dot. This is a 37% clockspeed increase over the original XB1, and a 28% increase over the XB1S, which received a slight clockspeed bump of its own. These clockspeeds are well within the range of what the Polaris architecture can offer, and while not as conservative as Sony’s design choices, should still be reasonably power efficient, though I’m very much interested in seeing what total power consumption is like.

More importantly, combined with the much wider GPU, the impact to the various throughput metrics is staggering. Shader/texture throughput will be 4.58x the original XB1, and ROP throughput will be 2.75x. Microsoft had a very large gap to close from the original Xbox One if they wanted to do 4K, and they have certainly put together a design that is equally large to help close that gap. However with that said, with performance that, on paper, is slightly ahead of a Radeon RX 480, I expect we’re still going to see some compromises here to consistently hit Microsoft’s 4K goal. 6 TFLOPS often isn’t enough for native 4K at current image quality levels, which means developers will have to resort to some clever optimizations or image scaling.

Memory subsystem
What makes things especially interesting though is that Microsoft didn’t just switch out DDR3 for GDDR5, but they’re using a wider memory bus as well; expanding it by 50% to 384-bits wide. Not only does this even further expand the console’s memory bandwidth – now to a total of 326GB/sec, or 4.8x the XB1’s DDR3 – but it means we have an odd mismatch between the ROP backends and the memory bus. Briefly, the ROP backends and memory bus are typically balanced 1-to-1 in a GPU, so a single memory controller will feed 1 or two ROP partitions. However in this case, we have a 384-bit bus feeding 32 ROPs, which is not a compatible mapping.

What this means is that at some level, Microsoft is running an additional memory crossbar in the SoC, which would be very similar to what AMD did back in 2012 with the Radeon HD 7970. Because the console SoC needs to split its memory bandwidth between the CPU and the GPU, things aren’t as cut and dry here as they are with discrete GPUs. But, at a high level, what we saw from the 7970 is that the extra bandwidth + crossbar setup did not offer much of a benefit over a straight-connected, lower bandwidth configuration. Accordingly, AMD has never done it again in their dGPUs. So I think it will be very interesting to see if developers can consistently consume more than 218GB/sec or so of bandwidth using the GPU.
 

Gradly

Member
I always respect their thorough reviews so gonna wait for that when the device released, but this is interesting if the system won't utilize the whole 326GB/sec memory speed
 

Syrus

Banned
I always respect their thorough reviews so gonna wait for that when the device released, but this is interesting if the system won't utilize the whole 326GB/sec memory speed

They wouldnt state that memory speed if hey cant use it. I hope this gets clarified
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
More information, nice. As people get their hands on it and can observe performances in a controlled and balanced environment the true capabilities will be known.
 
32 ROP ?
Is that confirmed ? Wouldnt it be a bit small compared to the 64 ROP found in R9 290, which also features 40CU ?
 

Niks

Member
with performance that, on paper, is slightly ahead of a Radeon RX 480, I expect we’re still going to see some compromises here to consistently hit Microsoft’s 4K goal. 6 TFLOPS often isn’t enough for native 4K at current image quality levels, which means developers will have to resort to some clever optimizations or image scaling.

I dont understand?

GAF told me the scorpio was more powerful than a gtx 1070?
 

Proelite

Member
I dont understand?

GAF told me the scorpio was more powerful than a gtx 1070?

Eh...

Only fools, I was the opinion that the GPU was at least 6x times more powerful than the XB1 due to how well it can run Forza a 6.
 

Boke1879

Member
I dont understand?

GAF told me the scorpio was more powerful than a gtx 1070?

If anyone hyped themselves as anything other than being a bit better than the Pro. Then they were fooling themselves.

I will say. What a lot of the Scorpio is doing should be what the Pro is doing as well. This imo is the PS4pro done right.

Huge fan of the pro and the games look great, but a lot of the system wide stuff the Scorpio is doing the Pro should be doing as well.
 

belvedere

Junior Butler
This is more along the lines of what I was expecting from DF. Very interesting about sharing the same Vega optimizations as the Pro.

Briefly, the ROP backends and memory bus are typically balanced 1-to-1 in a GPU, so a single memory controller will feed 1 or two ROP partitions. However in this case, we have a 384-bit bus feeding 32 ROPs, which is not a compatible mapping.
So I think it will be very interesting to see if developers can consistently consume more than 218GB/sec or so of bandwidth using the GPU.

Holy shit.
 

leeh

Member
If anyone hyped themselves as anything other than being a bit better than the Pro. Then they were fooling themselves.

I will say. What a lot of the Scorpio is doing should be what the Pro is doing as well. This imo is the PS4pro done right.

Huge fan of the pro and the games look great, but a lot of the system wide stuff the Scorpio is doing the Pro should be doing as well.
Sure, just a bit.
 

Cyborg

Member
Hmm interesting!

Briefly, the ROP backends and memory bus are typically balanced 1-to-1 in a GPU, so a single memory controller will feed 1 or two ROP partitions. However in this case, we have a 384-bit bus feeding 32 ROPs, which is not a compatible mapping.
So I think it will be very interesting to see if developers can consistently consume more than 218GB/sec or so of bandwidth using the GPU.
 

wachie

Member
This is more along the lines of what I was expecting from DF. Very interesting about sharing the same Vega optimizations as the Pro.
No, they're speculating that Scorpio may still have some Vega blocks but the fundamental blocks like in the PS4 Pro are not based on Vega.
 

belvedere

Junior Butler
No, they're speculating that Scorpio may still have some Vega blocks but the fundamental blocks like in the PS4 Pro are not based on Vega.

There's two key Vega implementations that Pro uses. They're suggesting the use cases for Scorpio are similar.
 
No, they're speculating that Scorpio may still have some Vega blocks but the fundamental blocks like in the PS4 Pro are not based on Vega.

Well that was clear the moment we saw the GPU specs:

PS4 Pro = underclocked RX 480
Scorpio= overclocked RX 480

RX 480 = Polaris
 

wachie

Member
There's two key Vega implementations that Pro uses. They're suggesting the use cases for Scorpio are similar.
They're speculating but in no sense saying the Vega blocks in Pro and Scorpio are similar.

Well that was clear the moment we saw the GPU specs:

PS4 Pro = underclocked RX 480
Scorpio= overclocked RX 480

RX 480 = Polaris
Unless I'm missing something the Pro use the shader cores and other Vega features such as RPM. I dont think you can call it an underclocked Polaris, for Scorpio for sure it's a Polaris.
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
I dont understand?

GAF told me the scorpio was more powerful than a gtx 1070?

Comparable to GTX 1080 in one racing game demo setup for the first impression of Scorpio, is what they even argued. It'll run games great at 4k, one console to code games for (xbox one exclusives + PC ports). That is what matter, not if it can really hang in with a 1080 on all games.

keep in mind, this is mostly speculation

Yeah, I know. Just came off of a ton of speculation pre Ryzen launch. I quite enjoy it. I want more. Though I doubt we'd see benchmarks of Scorpio after it launch. Just Digital Foundary framerate analysis videos. Capped at 60 or 30 most of the games I bet, no uncapped games hitting 100+ fps (understandable, as it's a console system).
 

belvedere

Junior Butler
They're speculating but in no sense saying the Vega blocks in Pro and Scorpio are similar.

Now there is a bit of nuance here, as AMD's GPU architecture is offered piecemeal: the shader cores, the memory controllers, the display controllers, etc are all separate blocks that can be mixed and matches. This is how the PS4 Pro uses just parts of Vega.

Ok
 
They're speculating but in no sense saying the Vega blocks in Pro and Scorpio are similar.


Unless I'm missing something the Pro use the shader cores and other Vega features such as RPM. I dont think you can call it an underclocked Polaris, for Scorpio for sure it's a Polaris.

I can see them both take the packed math blocks. Would be really strange for AMD to offer those IP only to Sony.
 
I always respect their thorough reviews so gonna wait for that when the device released, but this is interesting if the system won't utilize the whole 326GB/sec memory speed
Developers would need to specifically optimize for this variance. I don't see why any would do so however, when the market leader by a wide margin uses a standard configuration it doesn't seem like it would be worth the development time to work it into the customized setup.
 

Deku Tree

Member
It sounds like a lot of this extra memory bandwidth would only possibly be taken advantage of by first party developers.

No multiplat is going to go out of their way to code to the metal just for Scorpio.
 

wachie

Member
Yes, correct.
I can see them both take the packed math blocks. Would be really strange for AMD to offer those IP only to Sony.
I dont think AMD didnt offer that .. it's more of what Microsoft wanted. AMD makes their feature sets, designs, architectures available to both and each pick what they think is best for their console.

For example, for PS4 Cerny went with a lot more ACE engines than what was standard at that time in the GCN architecture. Microsoft went with the standard for Xbox One. So it wasnt like AMD cut a special deal to Sony.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
I always respect their thorough reviews so gonna wait for that when the device released, but this is interesting if the system won't utilize the whole 326GB/sec memory speed
Yea, the first spec that jumped out at me during the reveal was the ram. This, if true, is going to be very interesting.

Interesting article regardless.
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
LMFAO I can't wait for the clarification on this.

In Digital Foundry's defense, it's what they do. Compare different setups in one particular game. In this case, because 1070 and 1080 had hiccups in the windows store version of Forza 6 the demonstration of the same game on Scorpio had the better framerate stability.

Did they unlock the framerate for the PC version to see how high it went over 60fps?
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Complete buzz kill if it has for all practical purposes the same bandwidth. Glad this article came out hope gets Microsoft to finally talk deep details.
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
It sounds like a lot of this extra memory bandwidth would only possibly be taken advantage of by first party developers.

No multiplat is going to go out of their way to code to the metal just for Scorpio.

That's for any console though. Expect to get the best out of consoles with first party or exclusive games. Crackdown E3 is going to be interesting.
 
Not only does this even further expand the console’s memory bandwidth – now to a total of 326GB/sec, or 4.8x the XB1’s DDR3 – but it means we have an odd mismatch between the ROP backends and the memory bus. Briefly, the ROP backends and memory bus are typically balanced 1-to-1 in a GPU, so a single memory controller will feed 1 or two ROP partitions. However in this case, we have a 384-bit bus feeding 32 ROPs, which is not a compatible mapping.

So I think it will be very interesting to see if developers can consistently consume more than 218GB/sec or so of bandwidth using the GPU.

Well this is a smoking gun, i hope Digital Foundry goes into more detail on this. Sounds like it's bottlenecked??
 

Tomeru

Member
This enforces my thoughts on the scorpio - it being just a 4k native capable xbox one. I don't think we'll see any differences other than res on consoles. That trend appears to continue with this.
 
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