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Dot50Cal · Jan 24, 2007

I figured It would be wise to start a new topic on this as the issue is getting overlooked by the cries of joy from the inital posts on the topic. So basically, the PS3 is blurring ps2 games. While I celebrate the fact they fixed the awful issues previously, I can still see theres issues. Some examples:

PS3 (blurry)

PS2 (fine)

PS2:

PS3:

And incase you dont have the benefit of an image application, heres a pixel resized gif of the issue blown up (but done so by pixel, so as to not blur either image more than it already is)

See now? (blurry is obviously ps3) and its not AA, if it were it wouldnt be affecting textures and we still see pixels.

Notice how even snakes hunger meter is affected? This tells me that its likely the PS3 stretching the image out or resizing it improperly, im not sure. Perhaps some more educated folks can chime in.

*Capturing was done with component cables on both systems (same one) with the same brightness, etc. 480i mode as my capturing equipment lacks the ability to do 480p.

DaCocoBrova · Jan 24, 2007

How scientific.

Fredrik · Jan 24, 2007

Isn't this a good thing since some PS2 games have problems with jaggies?

Dot50Cal · Jan 24, 2007

bleh, you edited :lol

and no it is not a good thing. It is affecting textures and fine details.

Deleted member 17706 · Jan 24, 2007

It looks like it would be hard to tell unless you have a big TV.

In the screenshots you provided I actually think it looks slightly better (kind of like AA) and personally wouldn't complain unless it blurs the text in games to an unreadable level or something.

DaCocoBrova · Jan 24, 2007

The BC issues thread.

There are numerous variables involved. 480p/i? Does the game have a 480p option?

Dot50Cal · Jan 24, 2007

Zefah said:
It looks like it would be hard to tell unless you have a big TV.

In the screenshots you provided I actually think it looks slightly better (kind of like AA) and personally wouldn't complain unless it blurs the text in games to an unreadable level or something.

It is affecting text as well, look at snakes hunger bar. It gets an extra halo around it because of this.

Borys · Jan 24, 2007

It seems that you are 100% right dude but it is such a very, very minor thing that I don't know if it's worth the hassle to fix it.

Ranger X · Jan 24, 2007

For the difference there is... Is there something we should care about?

Dot50Cal · Jan 24, 2007

Its a pain in the ass for me, as I will be capturing soon and if this is the quality the PS3 is going to give, Ill have to use the PS2.

I guess its a non issue for a lot of people, but for some it could be. I just thought I'd bring it to light.

65536 · Jan 24, 2007

My guess is that the PS3 just doesn't have as good an analogue output as the PS2, as it was designed with a digital connection in mind, so it was less important.

As for the brightness differences, you can clearly see in the Resident Evil 4 shot that the PS3 is using video brightness levels, with 16 being black and 235 for white, rather than 0-255.

Ranger X · Jan 24, 2007

Dot50Cal said:
Its a pain in the ass for me, as I will be capturing soon and if this is the quality the PS3 is going to give, Ill have to use the PS2.

I guess its a non issue for a lot of people, but for some it could be. I just thought I'd bring it to light.

If this is a pain in the ass i can't imagine how any minor flaw in any game should give you suicidal tendencies.

f@luS · Jan 24, 2007

I tried 10 games today , and none had any difference in IQ...weird.

I tested both HDMI, and everything looked very very sharp.

and why a new thread?

Dot50Cal · Jan 24, 2007

andrewfee said:
My guess is that the PS3 just doesn't have as good an analogue output as the PS2, as it was designed with a digital connection in mind, so it was less important.

As for the brightness differences, you can clearly see in the Resident Evil 4 shot that the PS3 is using video brightness levels, with 16 being black and 235 for white, rather than 0-255.

That could be it, but unfortunately I dont have a way of capturing via HDMI. Shame they added HDCP to it :\

f@luS said:
and why a new thread?

I figured It would be wise to start a new topic on this as the issue is getting overlooked by the cries of joy from the inital posts on the topic.

Ranger X said:
If this is a pain in the ass i can't imagine how any minor flaw in any game should give you suicidal tendencies.

If you knew about capturing I dont think you'd be saying this. The aim is to get the best possible image. Like I said, I probably wouldnt notice this had I not been capturing for a site I run. The fact that its there and bluring out fine details is an issue that I have to contend with.

antiloop · Jan 24, 2007

Can anyone do a composite vs HDMI comparison? Photo would be good enough.

I am just interested in how PS2 games looks over HDMI.

XSamu · Jan 24, 2007

Damn, I never knew RE4 on the Cube looked that much better then on the PS2

deejay8595 · Jan 24, 2007

Stop nit picking you nerd.

Kabuki Waq · Jan 24, 2007

XSamu said:
Damn, I never knew RE4 on the Cube looked that much better then on the PS2

thats the first thing i noticed too

painey · Jan 24, 2007

the only differences i can see are brightness

Dot50Cal · Jan 24, 2007

antiloop said:
Can anyone do a composite vs HDMI comparison? Photo would be good enough.

Noone can, PS3 requires HDCP and the only HDMI capture card out there right now thats known doesnt have HDCP for obvious reasons.

XSamu said:
Damn, I never knew RE4 on the Cube looked that much better then on the PS2

http://www.thehorrorisalive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256 (mouseover)

fortified_concept · Jan 24, 2007

You convinced us the first time you posted it in the other thread. It's a minor flaw and you can't be serious if you expect BC to be 100% perfect. The PS2 one wasn't either.

Dot50Cal · Jan 24, 2007

I'd at least expect them to maintain the integrity of the image, It couldnt be that hard considering nearly and entire PS2 is shoved inside the thing.

deejay8595 said:
Stop nit picking you nerd.

Very constructive, thanks for you input.

XSamu · Jan 24, 2007

Dot50Cal said:
http://www.thehorrorisalive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256 (mouseover)

That's just terrible

Well at least they got a port, on the Xbox we got nothing.

teepo · Jan 24, 2007

stop demanding so much.

Steroyd · Jan 24, 2007

XSamu said:
Damn, I never knew RE4 on the Cube looked that much better then on the PS2

Please don't start that again.

You'll make Baby Jesus cry.

antiloop · Jan 24, 2007

Dot50Cal said:
Noone can, PS3 requires HDCP and the only HDMI capture card out there right now thats known doesnt have HDCP for obvious reasons.

That's why I said a photo would be good enough. That's how we see it when we play anyway.

Aisenherz · Jan 24, 2007

Dot50Cal said:
I figured It would be wise to start a new topic on this as the issue is getting overlooked by the cries of joy from the inital posts on the topic. So basically, the PS3 is blurring ps2 games. While I celebrate the fact they fixed the awful issues previously, I can still see theres issues. Some examples:

PS3 (blurry)

PS2 (fine)

PS2:

PS3:

And incase you dont have the benefit of an image application, heres a pixel resized gif of the issue blown up (but done so by pixel, so as to not blur either image more than it already is)

See now? (blurry is obviously ps3) and its not AA, if it were it wouldnt be affecting textures and we still see pixels.

Notice how even snakes hunger meter is affected? This tells me that its likely the PS3 stretching the image out or resizing it improperly, im not sure. Perhaps some more educated folks can chime in.

*Capturing was done with component cables on both systems (same one) with the same brightness, etc. 480i mode as my capturing equipment lacks the ability to do 480p.

OMFG!!!
I remember these days, when the GAMEPLAY of a game was important, and maybe the story. Now the people bitch about every single piece of sh*t they find. Awesome

Luckyman · Jan 24, 2007

Dot50Cal said:
http://www.thehorrorisalive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256 (mouseover)

Dunno about the resolution.. Cube-version runs letterboxed while PS2-version is anamorphic.

f@luS · Jan 24, 2007

seriously someone lock this thread , this is not enough to make one , with just one guy complaining (+ without hdmi capture , and imho its over sharp using HDMI)

Cant u be a little patient and wait for other opinions instead of doing this thread omgkikoolol? t_t

DaCocoBrova · Jan 24, 2007

Did the PC version ever surface (RE4)?

Dot50Cal · Jan 24, 2007

Wow, Sony Defence force assemble. Christ. All Im asking is for backwards compadibility to be working properly, as it does on the original device.

DaCocoBrova · Jan 24, 2007

Stay far away from the 360 then...

fortified_concept · Jan 24, 2007

Dot50Cal said:
Wow, Sony Defence force assemble. Christ.

Or is it just because you're trying too hard? You posted it in the other thread and noone payed attention to you so you decided to make a new thread. It's BC man, noone expects it to be 100% perfect especially when it's some lame flaw you can only notice when you're trying to find it.

Dot50Cal · Jan 24, 2007

Still, why are you defending the fact its broken compared to the original device? I just dont get some people here at times. Maybe I'm just getting too old for a place like this.

Kiriku · Jan 24, 2007

This should be your new avatar:

PS2 KID · Jan 24, 2007

The solution is simple guys. Just have other people provide direct feed captures of games to see if it's just Dot50Cal's issue. If what he says is corroborated, then we can discuss the whether or not it is must fix item for Sony to implement into a future firmware update. It's not like this firmware update will be the last one.

chubigans · Jan 24, 2007

I think its the fact that you're complaining about something that can be fixed using the sharpness button on your remote.

XSamu · Jan 24, 2007

Dot50Cal said:
Still, why are you defending the fact its broken compared to the original device? I just dont get some people here at times. Maybe I'm just getting too old for a place like this.

Sometimes GAF is not the right place to be. Sometimes they bitch about the smallest of smallest details as if it was a major issue. But then again, with things like this they don't care about it.

aloof · Jan 24, 2007

Seriously, I looked at the pics for a good two minutes and couldn't tell the difference. In-motion it won't be noticeable whatsoever. The fact that you had to magnify a small part of the pics to show the blur proves this point. Why make this thread?

f@luS · Jan 24, 2007

yeah and we will be able to discuss this into the official upgrade thread.

If u had nothing on the other thread about that even with ur pics , its just that pple dont see ur problem , dont have it , or dont care.

Making a new one was pointless just lock this...

drohne · Jan 24, 2007

uh...just looks like the ps3's scaling is a little softer than the ps2's. i don't think it's a bug as such. but if this is an issue for you, by all means: keep using your ps2.

Dot50Cal · Jan 24, 2007

chubigans said:
I think its the fact that you're complaining about something that can be fixed using the sharpness button on your remote.

Its not, the image is being distorted and thats the whole point. I guess I need to explain it in laymans terms.

Take a 640x480 image. Resize it to 650x480 and then resize it back to 640x480. The result is and image which is not only blurry, but the image is now distorted width wise. Thats whats happening here as you can see with snakes health bar. Turning up the sharpness on your set isnt going to fix it. For people who capture game footage its an issue.

*cue idiots*

VietBitter · Jan 24, 2007

His complaining because his doing capturing for his site and his informing everyone of this BC problem. Give him a break.

Brofist · Jan 24, 2007

Dot50Cal said:
Still, why are you defending the fact its broken compared to the original device? I just dont get some people here at times. Maybe I'm just getting too old for a place like this.

:lol broken? It was broken, it certainly isn't now though.

I don't think it has to do with age, maybe more to do with being too anal for this place maybe.

lucius · Jan 24, 2007

sony still doomed, Che vindicated!

drohne · Jan 24, 2007

afaik mgs3 is one of the many ps2 games that renders in a nonstandard resolution, so it's being scaled before output on ps2 and ps3. ps3 just comes out a little softer.

EMBee99 · Jan 24, 2007

(sigh)

You know, it's not like they screwed up how the games play.

/still miss rumble, though.

65536 · Jan 24, 2007

Dot50Cal said:
http://www.thehorrorisalive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256 (mouseover)

I'm not denying that the 'cube version looks better, but that's not a fair comparison. The sharpness is cranked on the cube one, but there doesn't appear to be any sharpening on the PS2 shots, which makes it look softer. While I've not played the game for a while, it also looks like the "brightness" setting has been cranked on the cube one (and possibly PS2 version as well) - leon shouldn't look like that in the menus. (at least it's not as bad as the Metroid Prime games when you crank up the brightness setting)

I'm not convinced about the levels being the same either - I've not verified it, but it looks like the PS2 shots have a 16-235 brightness range rather than 0-255 for the cube ones, making them appear lower contrast. (that's just speculation though)

Luckyman said:
Dunno about the resolution.. Cube-version runs letterboxed while PS2-version is anamorphic.

Actually it's just the PS2 scaling it, it's not running in a higher resolution. For people with older HDTVs that are forced into widescreen when running 480p it's a great addition though.

Dot50Cal · Jan 24, 2007

andrewfee said:
I'm not denying that the 'cube version looks better, but that's not a fair comparison. The sharpness is cranked on the cube one, but there doesn't appear to be any sharpening on the PS2 shots, which makes it look softer. While I've not played the game for a while, it also looks like the "brightness" setting has been cranked on the cube one (and possibly PS2 version as well) - leon shouldn't look like that in the menus. (at least it's not as bad as the Metroid Prime games when you crank up the brightness setting)

I'm not convinced about the levels being the same either - I've not verified it, but it looks like the PS2 shots have a 16-235 brightness range rather than 0-255 for the cube ones, making them appear lower contrast. (that's just speculation though)

Well considering I took all those shots myself, Your wrong.

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