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august 2007; MGS2 - I finally "get it" (do you ?)

L

le.phat

Member
http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS2/DOTM_TOC.htm

i've played the game several times, read the transcript and speculated away, but eventually it took me 6 year to finally "get it". Those of you who enjoyed MGS2, and the series in general, read this analysis. It trancends beyond the average plotguide, and instead analyses the very fabric of the game, the devices it is built on, and shows how this game ultimately is the perfect embodiment of digital immersiveness. I'm blown away, gasping for air, and completely humbled by the execution and meaning of MGS2. Utter respect towards kojima and his team!
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
I just read though a few topics and I already knew some of the stuff in it, but the clear way that it breaks down elements in the game is nice for people who didn't get the game at all.

Good find, things like these always intrigue me though I am in the minority on that one.
 
C

cilonen

Member
Awesome deconstruction. I'd got some of that myself from playing and read bits and pieces pointing at other theories, but that's a really great overview of what MGS2 is all about.
 
U

UnholySpectacle

Member
20011130h.gif


All joking aside I do love the MGS series. I'll have to give this a read.
 
S

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
I got it the first time I played through it in two sessions. Only reason why it wasn't done in one full session was because the Colonel going batshit insane near the end scared me at 3am in the morning.

TURN THE GAME CONSOLE OFF NOW!!

I NEED SCISSORS! 61!
 
U

UnholySpectacle

Member
speedpop said:
I got it the first time I played through it in two sessions. Only reason why it wasn't done in one full session was because the Colonel going batshit insane near the end scared me at 3am in the morning.

TURN THE GAME CONSOLE OFF NOW!!

I NEED SCISSORS! 61!
Click to expand...

Me too. I also remember that part where your radar shows what appears to be an JAV actress on a lawn recliner. It was eary in the morn and I thought I was seeing things due to lack of sleep.
 
A

alterno69

Banned
I did get SOME of that when i played the game, which btw holds my personal record of longest gaming session at 16 hours. One of my favorite games ever.
 
T

tanod

when is my burrito
I had read that awhile ago and it basically boils down to Kojima tries to mind**** the player's expectations of what an MGS game should be as much as possible. Am I interpreting it wrong?
 
L

le.phat

Member
Coop said:
I understood it; the problem with the story is it wasnt good at all.
Click to expand...
As weird as it may seem, the story wasn't meant to be good- the story told through raiden's experience atleast. Read into the analysis, you might come to rediscover MGS2 like i did ;)
 
G

Grayman

Member
I hate when people through analysis at me because I think the game was slightly worse off for being a direct imitation of MGS.
 
I

InterMoniker

Member
speedpop said:
I got it the first time I played through it in two sessions. Only reason why it wasn't done in one full session was because the Colonel going batshit insane near the end scared me at 3am in the morning.

TURN THE GAME CONSOLE OFF NOW!!

I NEED SCISSORS! 61!
Click to expand...
SAME HERE!!! :0 I love that part now though!

Or when your fighting on the elevator going down and it says Fission Mailed and I thought I was dead but your actually still playing!
Mejilan said:
This is pretty much the correct answer. MGS2 was a complete cluster****, as far as story and plot went! :lol
Click to expand...
Maybe you should stick to Zelda :) The story is way easier to understand.
 
T

Tobor

Member
I am picking up a PS2 next week to play through some of the games I never got to play, like FFXII. Maybe I will play through MGS2 again as well. I hated the story the first time I played it(Wasn't exactly a fan of the gameplay either), but I'm willing to assume I missed the point.
 
B

Brobzoid

how do I slip unnoticed out of a gloryhole booth?
InterMoniker said:
Maybe you should stick to Zelda :) The story is way easier to understand.
Click to expand...

epic lulz rite der.


anyway, I've always felt I understood MGS2, but I will now read this to see if there is something I just blatantly missed.

(I'm also listening to the Fountain OST and it makes me feel so brainy and smert...)
 
A

AAK

Member
speedpop said:
I got it the first time I played through it in two sessions. Only reason why it wasn't done in one full session was because the Colonel going batshit insane near the end scared me at 3am in the morning.

TURN THE GAME CONSOLE OFF NOW!!

I NEED SCISSORS! 61!
Click to expand...

I fell for it 3 times. Especially when Colonel is like "Don't you have anything better to do with your time?"

I didn't play it for 2 days, and then I said F it and ignored it, then I got fission mailed, and then colonel and rose is AI, and then S3 plan....... *brain explodes* No game ever came close to giving me an adrenaline rush like MGS2. :lol
 
Dave1988

Dave1988

Member
Son of Godzilla said:
This explains everything, ever.
Click to expand...
It sure does BUT it still doesn't make MGS2 (the Plant part at least) suck less.

Also where does Mr. "Schoolgirls must play MGS" Raiden come in all this?
 
D

dak1dsk1

Banned
Waste of time. It's a damn videogame. I love the series, but only because they allow you to skip cutscenes and story.
 
S

shuri

Banned
Invasion of the Kojima crotchsniffers detected in this thread. Fall back to the safety zones, people with taste! To save you time and sanity, i will compress the next 30 posts after mine in this handy quote box


Kojima Crotchsniffers Bot 20000 said:
Kojima writes better stories than hollywood and you should all stick to american movies because Kojima is a modern god of storytelling and you feeble brains wouldnt be able to handle the depth of the mgs stories. It's also made in Japan therefore it's better, FYI. Did anyone catch the new Naruto?
Click to expand...
 
C

Chichikov

Member
I always thought that MGS plot apologists should stick with the "it's a parody of western cinema" approach.
Not that it make more sense than that uber-serious dissertation, but I think you end up looking slightly more dignified.
 
M

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
InterMoniker said:
Maybe you should stick to Zelda :) The story is way easier to understand.
Click to expand...

What does this even mean? :lol
Have read all of the attempts to make a consistent Zelda chronology?

Still, MGS2's biggest failing wasn't in its story or plot nosedive, the game too was a total disaster. I probably would have been less pissed off and felt less ripped off if the game had just ended with the Tanker! :lol
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Mejilan said:
What does this even mean? :lol
Have read all of the attempts to make a consistent Zelda chronology?

Still, MGS2's biggest failing wasn't in its story or plot nosedive, the game too was a total disaster. I probably would have been less pissed off and felt less ripped off if the game had just ended with the Tanker! :lol
Click to expand...

Uh huh. Don't agree!

MGS2's story is not a cluster**** and it is interesting and complex, which makes it more rewarding once you finally get what it is attempting to explain. It's indulgent, but it was something that very, very few console video games had ever tried.

It has some translation issues and pacing problems, but MGS2 gets ENTIRELY too much flack.

The game is brave. Kojima may have had extra leeway because of how MGS1 sold and because of how MGS2 looked (and it still looks great TODAY), but what the game does is brave.
 
B

border

Member
Patently awful -- I love how every little change to the game's plot structure or scenario has to be tediously detailed and categorized as an "inversion" or "formation" of a particular map. Imagine the ridiculousness if you went through this nonsense with every sequel.

A lot of this stuff is just highly pedestrian observations being given fanciful names.
 
V

Vyse The Legend

Member
Mejilan said:
Still, MGS2's biggest failing wasn't in its story or plot nosedive, the game too was a total disaster. I probably would have been less pissed off and felt less ripped off if the game had just ended with the Tanker! :lol
Click to expand...

m3wthr33 said:
]Are people STILL bitter that MGS2 wasn't all Snake?
Amazing how that has tainted all perceptions of the game.
Click to expand...

^ What he said.
 
R

Raist

Banned
Mejilan said:
What does this even mean? :lol
Have read all of the attempts to make a consistent Zelda chronology?
Click to expand...

Even Miyamoto doesn't know. There's a difference between pure fanboy speculation and an actual written plot :p
 
C

Chinner

Banned
MGS2 wasn't really that complicated as long as you paid attention, and it'll try to make it obivous when theres a important theme or story point to recongise. Hell you can skip the majority of the Rose codec calls and you'd probably understand all of the story.
 
S

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
le.phat said:
http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS2/DOTM_TOC.htm

i've played the game several times, read the transcript and speculated away, but eventually it took me 6 year to finally "get it". Those of you who enjoyed MGS2, and the series in general, read this analysis. It trancends beyond the average plotguide, and instead analyses the very fabric of the game, the devices it is built on, and shows how this game ultimately is the perfect embodiment of digital immersiveness. I'm blown away, gasping for air, and completely humbled by the execution and meaning of MGS2. Utter respect towards kojima and his team!
Click to expand...

SO.. I could kinda wrap my head around why someone would do this when the game came out, like 7 years ago... but now? I cant.
 
CassidyIzABeast

CassidyIzABeast

Member
Seriously, MGS2's story was big mystery to me before I read this. It kind of felt like Kojima didn't know what he wanted to do but now its clearly obvious you had to break the story down to understand it. Without trying to understand, it really is a crazy plot but when you do, its pretty damn good.

I would have never thought of the title screen color and character change meaning anything other than I beat the game. Overall its a great read.
 
V

Vyse The Legend

Member
Slurpy said:
SO.. I could kinda wrap my head around why someone would do this when the game came out, like 7 years ago... but now? I cant.
Click to expand...

Uh, MGS4, the direct continuation of MGS2's crazy plot, is coming out in MArch, ya know. Some people want to be able to understand MGS2's plot before proceeding forward in the series.

Edit: What was so complicated about MGS2's story, anyway? I understood it right out the gate.
 
B

Belfast

Member
le.phat said:
As weird as it may seem, the story wasn't meant to be good- the story told through raiden's experience atleast. Read into the analysis, you might come to rediscover MGS2 like i did ;)
Click to expand...

I think that in order for MGS2 to be as brilliant as it was, it had to snub some gamers (and even fans) in the process. It's easier for the people willing to process it as an alternative kind of narrative or eventually recognize the trickery that it used to really appreciate it. MGS2 is akin to the Andy Kaufman of video games, deliberately distracting or warping common conceptions of what a game (or more rightly in this case, a sequel) should be. It amplifies these conceits by taking advantage of a video game's interactive properties.

If you can understand and appreciate this, MGS2 becomes quite phenomenal. But it's only natural that some people are going to feel burned, hence the snapback cries of "I got it, but it still sucked!"
 
B

blackadde

Member
i can respect kojima for the mere fact that he's willing to provoke controversy and discussion rather than producing a simple ok-here's-the-story sequel. whether successful or not (i don't think it's much of a stretch to say that by and large most people didn't care for the introspective storyline) it's a laudable effort. many of these themes have been explored in greater detail in post-modern literature but definitely not in a big-budget/high-risk medium like video games.

regardless, i had never played mgs1 when i first went through mgs2, so a lot of this flew over my head. i still had good time with the core game mechanics, so that's saying something at least.
 
CassidyIzABeast

CassidyIzABeast

Member
Vyse The Legend said:
Edit: What was so complicated about MGS2's story, anyway? I understood it right out the gate.
Click to expand...
well at least for me, I hadn't played MGS1 when I played 2 so a large amount of what the article pointed out flew over my head. so I think the complicated complaints are coming for people who didn't play MGS1 before playing 2 or just didn't follow the story enough to see the similarities between the two.
 
X

Xav

Member
I don't understand why some try to defend MGS 2, it's a rubbish game get over it, Kojima screwed up bad. What kind of game requires you to do some research and read pages upon pages of information just so you might understand it. Sometimes MGS fans are just too out there for my liking, it's just a game guys come back down to earth.
MGS 2 sucks, MGS 1 was much better & MGS 3 is better than both in my opinion.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
Xav said:
I don't understand why some try to defend MGS 2, it's a rubbish game get over it, Kojima screwed up bad. What kind of game requires you to do some research and read pages upon pages of information just so you might understand it. Sometimes MGS fans are just too out there for my liking, it's just a game guys come back down to earth.
MGS 2 sucks, MGS 1 was much better & MGS 3 is better than both in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Huh?
 
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