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What do higher tech processors add to gaming now?

With the competing home platforms now of such different capabilities, one of the oft-repeated arguments is that a game being made for Wii instead of PS3/X360 would limit its potential. Obviously this is true from a graphical perspective, but that's not always what is meant. I'm curious for examples of where this could be the case. It seems to me that what people sometimes take to be a newly opened possibility due to more powerful hardware isn't really a new possibility; it's just now doable without cutting as many graphical corners. Where isn't this the case?

Through the 70s, 80s, and 90s there were clearly ways that processor-based enhancements allowed for more complexity. A game that could use 16 colors could do more than a game that was stuck with 2. Hardware that allowed 32 sprites moving simultaneously allowed for more to be going on than hardware that only allowed for 8 sprites. Rotation allowed for things to go beyond simple 4 or 8 possible directions, and going 3D took these new directions off a flat plane.

However, that's all in the past. The possibility changes going one generation of 3D system to the next generation of 3D system are less obvious. A character moving from point A to point B may do so with more polygons, better textures, at a higher resolution, and with a higher frame rate (I wish), but it's still a character moving from point A to point B. I look at GCN/PS2 games, and don't see a whole lot that couldn't (or wasn't) done on N64/PS1 in uglier form.

The obvious one that immediately strikes me is that with more powerful hardware it becomes possible to use better physics on a wide scale, rather than using it selectively or inaccurately.

Some of you read this and probably think I'm a blind Ntard missing the obvious. Fair enough. I'm not a guy with a lot of X360/PS3/high-end-PC experience under my belt, which is why I want to hear what some of you think are good examples to the contrary before I continue saying such things and looking the fool.
 

killakiz

Member
Physics seems to be the new thing, also go check out the crysis tech videos to see what features are pushing the hardware limits.
 
Um...Cell and *mind blank* the one 360 has(Oh God) do more then just "the graphics" better processors allow for to be going on at the same. Just look at single core processors to dual core ones, the performance gap is there, there's nothing wrong with Wii but it's just not in the same level so things would have to be sacrificed in order to bring it to all platforms.

Some of the games shown just wouldn't work on the Wii at the same qualitywith all the things going on as that's not the direction the system was built for. Dual core programming and more are really taking off with consoles so it's actually a win win situation for everyone as people can see multi core development on home consoles and see the ways it can work on PC.

While Nintendo is pushing the way we interact with games, Microsoft and Nintendo are pushing better ways to get more larger and immersive environments. yeah GameCube and other games are fine and I still play them to this day on my Wii/PS3. But games are going to get larger and more immersive this generation and those games will start to look "small".

Anyway. To simplify this, look at computers. Mult core processors are the future and Microsoft/Sony are doing a lot to further development of it. All those trees, grass, water, fire, bullets etc take up clock cycles, the more resources availible the more you can add to a game.

And who doesn't want that?
 
Just being able to more realistically recreate worlds with greater atmosphere is a big deal, at least for me. See Bioshock, the visuals in that game help create a mood and ambiance that is previously unparalleled IMO.

Less restrictions on the type and scale of levels and environments that developers can produce is always a good thing.
 

Mudhoney

Member
Better tech in the machine allows developers to do a lot more than just better graphics. Every part of the game (physics, AI, dynamic environments) that uses processor power could potentially be improved. How well these things are exploited by developers is another subject, however.

I've seen lots of examples where developers have used clever tricks to get things to work on older technology, and that seems to be exactly what developers need to do to make Wii games that look and act like a game running on better hardware. It takes more effort (and time to build skills) to do this, which is why we don't see games that look like Mario Galaxy all over on Wii. So I could see why a developer would want to use the tools available on more expensive platforms, and bypass the need to learn how to make the most of Wii's hardware.
 
Mudhoney said:
Better tech in the machine allows developers to do a lot more than just better graphics. Every part of the game (physics, AI, dynamic environments) that uses processor power could potentially be improved. How well these things are exploited by developers is another subject, however.

I've seen lots of examples where developers have used clever tricks to get things to work on older technology, and that seems to be exactly what developers need to do to make Wii games that look and act like a game running on better hardware. It takes more effort (and time to build skills) to do this, which is why we don't see games that look like Mario Galaxy all over on Wii. So I could see why a developer would want to use the tools available on more expensive platforms, and bypass the need to learn how to make the most of Wii's hardware.
No offense to the Wii but the ability is already there from gamecube isn't it? yeah "lawl 2 gamecubes+ duck tape" but from most information everything seems to have been just doubled. Look at Capcom, Square, Konami, Nintendo. They know what they're doing and all their games look great so far and play well to boot.
 

seanoff

Member
The number of people on screen

Lighting -

SNOW!!! -

Physics

geometry


have a quick peek at GT5 it does all of the above
HS
Halo
Gears
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Watch the first couple minutes of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iCdN2FGOaQ

But really, like others have said, the really next-gen (besides graphics) games in the short term are going to be sandbox games like Prototype and Infamous.
 

Phthisis

Member
Dead Rising being able to display 800 zombies on-screen at once.

NHL 08's graphics.

BioShock's atmosphere.

Those are good enough for me.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Mudhoney said:
I've seen lots of examples where developers have used clever tricks to get things to work on older technology, and that seems to be exactly what developers need to do to make Wii games that look and act like a game running on better hardware. It takes more effort (and time to build skills) to do this, which is why we don't see games that look like Mario Galaxy all over on Wii.

Two words: Tiny environments.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Tristam said:
You must have missed every video showcasing very large environments. Oh well.

Space is infinite, right? But seriously, I've seen all of the available media for that game.
 

traveler

Not Wario
I'm not a tech expert, but I imagine Bioshock's fully loaded enviroments complete with non-scripted AI wandering about the world would be pretty difficult without some significant power behind it all.
 

stewacide

Member
Besides general graphical fidelity they've really hit a wall with "next gen". AI and physics get thrown out a lot as things that have/will improve, but I'm not convinced. AI seems limited not by hardware but by human coding ability, while physics has the potential to consume so much processing power if 'let loose' that "next gen" systems still arn't powerful enough for broadly applied physics (don't confuse cutting-edge PCs with the 360/PS3 in this respect: they're nowhere close)
 

Mudhoney

Member
TAJ said:
Two words: Tiny environments.
I wouldn't call all of the environments tiny. The new prologue video has a decent sized Mushroom Kingdom environment that is a lot bigger than the mini-planets shown so far, at least. We'll see how big and varied they get when it's released though.

It's still a valid point though, as far as how a developer might go about optimizing a game to run well on Wii.
 
I think the higher tech is mainly being put into immersion. Physics are getting better, but I don't think the leap in gameplay is very big or widespread yet. That's why I think it's good to have something like Wii (lack of power aside). Games should advance in more than one direction.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
stewacide said:
AI seems limited not by hardware but by human coding ability

Even if you use last-gen AI, you can still apply it to a lot more characters, or have more CPU cycles left over for other things.
 

Dire

Member
At the base level - AI, physics, MASSIVENESS (longer view distances, more on screen at once).

But much more importantly is something you can't directly see: reduced complexity for developers. Right now you still have to jump through many hurdles to get nice looking effects / AI / physics / 'MASSIVENESS' / etc. As you increase the available raw power, this reduces the necessity of 'tricks'. And with reduced complexity comes the potential for greater levels of innovation and revolution. With fewer technical hurdles to cross, there's less time between the process of coming up with a great idea and getting that idea implemented.

The enhanced technology won't immediately lead to great games, but it'll make developing them a whole lot easier.
 

theultimo

Member
Lets look at a timeline of the offical Mario games:
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5xe182novvjz80ckwgjq.jpg


Now, with every different incarnation of Mario, they have added quite a lot over the years.

If history is our guide, I can't wait. Also it really is hard to judge, because so many innovations can happen.
 

Grayman

Member
The bigger worlds are a big thing. Could GTA3 be done on a ps1? It was already really limited on the PS2 and had cars vanishing the second they went out of view(even if it was toggling your view forward and back sometimes)

In the heavenly sword demo I think i noticed Nariko run ontop of a body instead of through it. That impressed me a lot.
 
theultimo said:
Now, with every different incarnation of Mario, they have added quite a lot over the years.

If history is our guide, I can't wait. Also it really is hard to judge, because so many innovations can happen.

Those are some ****ing awful sunshine and galaxy captures. Ewww.

Back on topic, so far next-gen hasn't really proved much to me other than better visuals and more realism and immersion. I'm still waiting for that MUST-HAVE EXPERIENCE THAT CAN'T BE DONE ON ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE BEST. Even Crysis hasn't proven itself too much to me yet, though i do admit it has great physics.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
_Alkaline_ said:
Those are some ****ing awful sunshine and galaxy captures. Ewww.

And the Super Mario 64 shot is from an emulator, at a higher resolution than on N64.
 
I've played quite a lot of 360 and PS3 games (I own all 3 home consoles this gen) and I've played all of the big main ones except for Halo 3. TBH all this jazz about "OMG Next Gen Physics" or "OMG Next Gen AI" is just a load of bollocks, I have seen nothing that couldn't be done gameplay wise last generation, except for maybe Dead Rising (Even though it probably could've been done technically last generation, it cannot be denied that it wouldn't have been nearly as good, as the graphics would've had downgraded to an extremely low level and then everything else would suffer too like the framerate)

Last generation was a necessary jump because the N64/PS1 era was woefully limited in terms of what it can do; but it was also about refinement as well as new possibilities, this current generation isn't really refining anything gameplay wise outside of sandbox games (This is the one genre that really needed the next gen jump)
 
Nuclear Muffin said:
I've played quite a lot of 360 and PS3 games (I own all 3 home consoles this gen) and I've played all of the big main ones except for Halo 3. TBH all this jazz about "OMG Next Gen Physics" or "OMG Next Gen AI" is just a load of bollocks, I have seen nothing that couldn't be done gameplay wise last generation, except for maybe Dead Rising (Even though it probably could've been done technically last generation, it cannot be denied that it wouldn't have been nearly as good, as the graphics would've had downgraded to an extremely low level and then everything else would suffer too like the framerate)

Last generation was a necessary jump because the N64/PS1 era was woefully limited in terms of what it can do; but it was also about refinement as well as new possibilities, this current generation isn't really refining anything gameplay wise outside of sandbox games (This is the one genre that really needed the next gen jump)

I am still confident we will see games that truly demonstrate the need for the highest-tech, but for now i am not overly impressed.

However, this generation has seen some big advancements already - not only the wiimote, but things like Xbox Live truly come to mind. Live is a mindboggling experience that deserves all the praise it gets.
 

VonGak!

Banned
Nuclear Muffin said:
I've played quite a lot of 360 and PS3 games (I own all 3 home consoles this gen) and I've played all of the big main ones except for Halo 3. TBH all this jazz about "OMG Next Gen Physics" or "OMG Next Gen AI" is just a load of bollocks, I have seen nothing that couldn't be done gameplay wise last generation, except for maybe Dead Rising (Even though it probably could've been done technically last generation, it cannot be denied that it wouldn't have been nearly as good, as the graphics would've had downgraded to an extremely low level and then everything else would suffer too like the framerate)

Last generation was a necessary jump because the N64/PS1 era was woefully limited in terms of what it can do; but it was also about refinement as well as new possibilities, this current generation isn't really refining anything gameplay wise outside of sandbox games (This is the one genre that really needed the next gen jump)
Heavenly Sword, Lair, Forza 2, Gran Turismo HD,.. I'm sure there's more

_Alkaline_ said:
I am still confident we will see games that truly demonstrate the need for the highest-tech, but for now i am not overly impressed.

However, this generation has seen some big advancements already - not only the wiimote, but things like Xbox Live truly come to mind. Live is a mindboggling experience that deserves all the praise it gets.

Xbox Live is completely OT as the advancements got nothing to do with hardware unless you mean deoding HD streams.
 
VonGak! said:
Heavenly Sword, Lair, Forza 2, Gran Turismo HD,.. I'm sure there's more



Xbox Live is completely OT as the advancements got nothing to do with hardware unless you mean deoding HD streams.

Oh i realise that.

The point im trying to make is that huge advancements are being made, yet we're still yet to see a true indication of what high-tech can do for gaming, because right now it's basically the same stuff except prettier.
 

VonGak!

Banned
_Alkaline_ said:
Oh i realise that.

The point im trying to make is that huge advancements are being made, yet we're still yet to see a true indication of what high-tech can do for gaming, because right now it's basically the same stuff except prettier.

That's true and often the greatest jumps in game-play aren't due to hardware but the creativity of the developers like leaning up against walls in shooters and double jump in platformers. :D
 

amar212

Member
640p.

And if you ban me because I'm JR you have no sense of humor whatsoever.

Besides that, we'll see for real what will multicore bring us in next few years, todays is still the Dawn of Multicore. But it will be significant.

As today, physics and graphica are the main deal. What they've achived so far is frightening.
 

Kiriku

SWEDISH PERFECTION
Well, I think high-tech hardware allows developers to create games with bigger worlds, more characters on screen, more stuff happening at the same time (of course, this won't be noticable if the game is deliberately designed with very confined environments in mind). I think when done right, it makes a big difference from the often empty and flat environments that were pretty common in large scale games on PS2/Xbox/GC. Not to mention more detailed characters, and more characters moving independently from each other. And a higher resolution to easier make out the details in a large environments filled with objects. :p
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Mudhoney said:
It takes more effort (and time to build skills) to do this, which is why we don't see games that look like Mario Galaxy all over on Wii.
We've seen plenty on PS2/XBox/GC though. So if you're right, that just means Wii development budgets are lower then last gen.
 

shifty100

Banned
Advanced processors have as has been stated allowed developers to create greater graphical fidelity, advanced physics, better animation and larger, better realised enviroments but I think the biggest advancement in gaming has been the online factor with regards to this gen.

To go from the days when gaming was relatively a solo activity to these days when we can make friends, communicate and share gaming experiences with people is a huge leap for gaming.

I think that the graphics angle can be seen from more than just making better looking games for the hardcore, in the early days when I played games on my C64 or even the atari 2600 they required a leap of imagination to actually enjoy the experience.

Characters made from a couple of sprites with extremely basic animation, sound etc were poor representations of what the world and the character supposedly represented but with a bit of imagination the gamer could become immersed in this and enjoy it.

But outside the hardcore the mainstream would have struggled to see the link between lets say pitfall and a jungle adventure, but today the places and themes actually look incredibly like the real thing. This makes it easier for the story and theme of the game to come across, or for example a sport game like football actually looks and moves almost the same as it would if they were watching a game on the TV but with the added interaction.
 
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