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PS3 OS memory usage downgraded

L

Luckyman

Banned
http://www.criteriongames.com/article.php?artID=70

"With the latest SDK Sony freed up some memory. We've upgraded to this SDK and made use of the extra memory to scale the 720p game to 960x1080 as part of the very final post-process render stage in the game; this 960x1080 video mode uses the PS3 hardware scaler to upscale the image horizontally to output at 1920x1080.

"This scaling process in Burnout costs a very small amount of frame time (under 0.4% of a 60hz frame, which we can afford without dropping frames) since we're going to a larger number of pixels, but it enables those with 1080i TVs that don't support 720p to play in HD.
Click to expand...

Looks like Sony freed up pretty good amount because Criterion is adding custom soundtracks also.
 
T

tha_con

Banned
BOP IS GETTING CUSTOM SOUNDTRACKS!??!

GAME REVIVED!!!!!!!

Read the article...I don't see anything mentioning this...is it in another post?
 
S

Sandman7

Member
Good stuff. I thought it might not happen with Home and the app-based Store coming but, then again, I am in no way a tech expert.
 
L

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Luckyman said:
Looks like Sony freed up pretty good amount because Criterion is adding custom soundtracks also.
Click to expand...
I've heard this mentioned, but was it ever really announced?

Shamrock said:
Why are they only scaling horizontal?
Click to expand...
It's how the hardware scaler in PS3 works.
 
S

samratty

Member
I'm not a big fan of the this Burnout, not feeling the whole open world type thing, but it's great of Criterion to keep supporting it when lesser devs (including tonnes under the EA name) wouldn't bother.

Shamrock said:
Why are they only scaling horizontal?
Click to expand...
Doesn't the PS3, weirdly, only have horizontal scaling available in the SDK? That's what I read like a year ago or something. If that's true, then there you have it.
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
Again? This is like what, the 3rd confirmed time they do this? In a few more upgrades the "less ram" complain will gone completely.
 
T

TheExodu5

Banned
Marconelly said:
Yeah, that should be the paramount of their efforts :p
Click to expand...

Obviously not, but I mean, it's kind of ridiculous that it took them several months to even come out with horizontal scaling. You'd think they'd have done the whole thing at once and save the developers the trouble.
 
D

Doc Evils

Member
Nice of them to put those people with 1080i tv's at rest.

Do we know how much ram the PS3 uses now? when we get xmb this summer, it will most likely further reduce footprint.
 
N

Nemo

Will Eat Your Children
Custom Soundtracks?! Yes fucking please! That's pretty much the only reason I will play this game again! :D
 
L

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
TheExodu5 said:
Obviously not, but I mean, it's kind of ridiculous that it took them several months to even come out with horizontal scaling. You'd think they'd have done the whole thing at once and save the developers the trouble.
Click to expand...
But seriously, why do you think something like that is even needed? Especially when games can do it in software anyways (like CoD4 and several others) The only reason this horizontal upscaling is even important, is to have old, 1080i-only HDTVs capable of displaying HD picture.
 
L

Luckyman

Banned
Metalmurphy said:
Again? This is like what, the 3rd confirmed time they do this? In a few more upgrades the "less ram" complain will gone completely.
Click to expand...

The problem is that all the features that are standard on 360 (custom soundtracks, voice chat, scaling..) still use additional memory apparently
 
boutrosinit

boutrosinit

Street Fighter IV World Champion
I'm way impressed that the Burnout guys are putting so much extra work into the game even after it's done.

I'll definitely pick it up if they add a retry option when you fail a challenge.
 
B

burgerdog

Member
boutrosinit said:
I'm way impressed that the Burnout guys are putting so much extra work into the game even after it's done.

I'll definitely pick it up if they add a retry option when you fail a challenge.
Click to expand...

It really isn't that bad, not until you're 90% done with the game and by then you will have enjoyed the heck out of the game.
 
D

Doc Evils

Member
andrewfee said:
Wait, they're rendering at 960x1080, but only scaling to 1080i? Why no 1080p?

Has anyone actually done a comparison with games running at 960x1080 vs 1280x720? 1080 has more pixels, but due to the scaling it may actually look worse.
Click to expand...

did you click the link?
 
K

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
This may be old news in terms of the memory usage, because Criterion was talking about SDK upgrades that were happening for the PS3 just as BOP was readying to ship, so they couldn't take full advantage of them. The "Cagney" 1.3 patch may just be the first time they're really able to take advantage of that for BOP
 
K

Kittonwy

Banned
This is so full of win.
Indifferent2.gif
 
P

PistolGrip

sex vacation in Guam
TheExodu5 said:
Sony really should work on enabling their vertical scaling =\.
Click to expand...
mathematically there should be no reason to do it. If you can scale one way you just need to have the source be a higher res in the other side.
 
D

Dibbz

Member
TheExodu5 said:
Obviously not, but I mean, it's kind of ridiculous that it took them several months to even come out with horizontal scaling. You'd think they'd have done the whole thing at once and save the developers the trouble.
Click to expand...
I don't think the chip allows for vertical scaling.

I don't think you understand what is actually going on here. Sony havn't enabled scaling just now, devs have always had the ability to scale horizontally. Now that Sony have reduced their memory footprint for the OS, Criterion are able to use the scaling function without it affecting the frame rate on Burnout.
 
S

samratty

Member
Dibbz said:
I don't think the chip allows for vertical scaling.

I don't think you understand what is actually going on here. Sony havn't enabled scaling just now, devs have always had the ability to scale horizontally. Now that Sony have reduced their memory footprint for the OS, Criterion are able to use the scaling function without it affecting the frame rate on Burnout.
Click to expand...
No they didn't. Aparently the SDK didn't support it till around January last year.

Nevertheless for the context of Burnout, it was always enabled.
 
T

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
andrewfee said:
Wait, they're rendering at 960x1080, but only scaling to 1080i? Why no 1080p?

Has anyone actually done a comparison with games running at 960x1080 vs 1280x720? 1080 has more pixels, but due to the scaling it may actually look worse.
Click to expand...

Looks to me like they're actually rendering at 720p, then scaling to 960X1080 in software, then scaling again to 1080i with the scaler.

scale the 720p game to 960x1080 as part of the very final post-process render stage in the game
Click to expand...

Post-processing is not rendering. It's something that happens after rendering, hence the "post" part.
 
M

Mmmkay

Member
TAJ said:
Looks to me like they're actually rendering at 720p, then scaling to 960X1080 in software, then scaling again to 1080i with the scaler.
Click to expand...
Ninja Gaiden: Sigma did this with hideous results.
 
S

somuchwater

Member
Could someone explain how a change in the SDK manifests itself when I play a game at home? Are new versions of a given SDK mapped on to new firmware? I guess I'm confused about how the memory usage changes on both ends.
 
D

Dibbz

Member
samratty said:
No they didn't. Aparently the SDK didn't support it till around January last year.

Nevertheless for the context of Burnout, it was always enabled.
Click to expand...
Could have sworn that I read an article which stated that the PS3 has had a scaler chip built in since launch. Oh well.
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
somuchwater said:
Could someone explain how a change in the SDK manifests itself when I play a game at home? Are new versions of a given SDK mapped on to new firmware? I guess I'm confused about how the memory usage changes on both ends.
Click to expand...
change in memory usage in newer firmware -> change in sdk to support more available memory -> change in game to use more memory for more cool stuff
 
D

Dibbz

Member
somuchwater said:
Could someone explain how a change in the SDK manifests itself when I play a game at home? Are new versions of a given SDK mapped on to new firmware? I guess I'm confused about how the memory usage changes on both ends.
Click to expand...
SDK is basically the tool set that the devs are able to use, afaik. So when devs are making a game Sony updates the dev kits to the latest sdk.

Take this for example. Sony updated the SDK not long ago which contained some stuff for HOME, acomplishments etc. So devs could access those new tools through their dev kits and allow their game to support the new features.

Any changes in the SDK are mirrored in the firmware updates that we get, except we don't have access to the tools.

Thats my understanding of it anyways. If it needs correcting then anyone is welcome to do so.
 
S

samratty

Member
Dibbz said:
Could have sworn that I read an article which stated that the PS3 has had a scaler chip built in since launch. Oh well.
Click to expand...
It did, aparently... But developers just couldn't use it coz they weren't allowed access to it through the SDK for some odd reason only Sony knows.
 
L

lynux3

Member
Tiduz said:
I wish we would get a photo mode in all games, like Wipeout HD.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

Photo mode and video recording would be awesome if it were standard.

Dibbz said:
Could have sworn that I read an article which stated that the PS3 has had a scaler chip built in since launch. Oh well.
Click to expand...

I don't know if it was ever confirmed, but there was a lot of speculation at Beyond3D at the time and everything pointed to PS3 having something for scaling.
 
R

Rolf NB

Member
Firewire said:
I wonder how much memory was freed up, would this up scaling & in game music take allot?
Click to expand...
A 960x1080 frontbuffer takes a bit above 4MB. If they had more to spare, they would probably have chosen a 1280x1080 buffer size, because it would have provided slightly better quality.
 
S

somuchwater

Member
Dibbz said:
SDK is basically the tool set that the devs are able to use, afaik. So when devs are making a game Sony updates the dev kits to the latest sdk.

Take this for example. Sony updated the SDK not long ago which contained some stuff for HOME, acomplishments etc. So devs could access those new tools through their dev kits and allow their game to support the new features.

Any changes in the SDK are mirrored in the firmware updates that we get, except we don't have access to the tools.

Thats my understanding of it anyways. If it needs correcting then anyone is welcome to do so.
Click to expand...

No, that makes sense. Thanks dude.
 
M

MoeB

Member
boutrosinit said:
I'm way impressed that the Burnout guys are putting so much extra work into the game even after it's done.

I'll definitely pick it up if they add a retry option when you fail a challenge.
Click to expand...

warhawk says hello
 
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