Support NeoGAF

Zenith · May 5, 2010

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8661385.stm

Greece brought to halt by general strike over cuts

Greece has been brought to a standstill as angry workers stage a general strike over planned austerity measures.

I get that rioting is a much more common response to political dissatisfaction, I get that the Government bears some responsibility over the borrowing frenzy it went on after they joined the Euro.

But seriously, no one sees the need for these "austerity measures" to get the country out of the black hole it's in? Even if the gov was entirely to blame it can't just magic up the money from nowhere. Greece has one of the lowest retirement ages, lowest tax rates and highest tax evasion rates in Europe. Doctors and lawyers get charged no income tax at all. It's been living on easy street way too long and now it's time to get rid of those ridiculous luxuries.

mAcOdIn · May 5, 2010

Zenith said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8661385.stm

I get that rioting is a much more common response to political dissatisfaction, I get that the Government bears some responsibility over the borrowing frenzy it went on after they joined the Euro.

But seriously, no one sees the need for these "austerity measures" to get the country out of the black hole it's in? Even if the gov was entirely to blame it can't just magic up the money from nowhere. Greece has one of the lowest retirement ages, lowest tax rates and highest tax evasion rates in Europe. Doctors and lawyers get charged no income tax at all. It's been living on easy street way too long and now it's time to get rid of those ridiculous luxuries.

What country wouldn't riot? That's a problem, if you want to call expression a problem, with Democracy. Of course everyone wants the budget under control, just not in a manner that affects them, same shit in the US, same shit everywhere. I'm not Greek, nor in Greece, but I can imagine a similar thing playing out anywhere.

devilhawk · May 5, 2010

The government fucks up. Their answer is to take your pensions.

You don't see a problem?

Socreges · May 5, 2010

The protesters/strikers believe that they're punishing the working class instead of imposing higher taxes on the upper class that can handle the burden better.

ALSO: If your livelihood is at stake, it's pretty difficult to 'put nation first'. However much the government needs these people to sacrifice and get back to work, people think as individuals and they'll do what they can to shift the burden and blame.

SmokyDave · May 5, 2010

I too am confused about the situation in Greece, especially after reading the analysis on this article.

Malcom Brabant said:
Malcolm Brabant, BBC News correspondent in Athens

On Planet Greece, some civil servants get a bonus for turning up to work on time.

Foresters get a bonus for working outdoors. At least they show up.

There are civil servants called ghost workers, because they never go into the office, head to a second job and still claim a state salary.

They can't get sacked, because a civil service post is for life. Unless the incumbent decides to retire in his or her forties, WITH a pension.

And the government can continuing paying for the afterlife. Unmarried and divorced daughters of civil servants are entitled to collect their dead parents' pensions.

Another lucrative sinecure is to belong to a state committee. The government has no idea how many there are. It's been estimated that they have 10,000 employees and cost nearly £200m a year, and that includes the committee to manage a lake that dried up 80 years ago.

Crazy stuff.

Socreges · May 5, 2010

Another lucrative sinecure is to belong to a state committee. The government has no idea how many there are. It's been estimated that they have 10,000 employees and cost nearly £200m a year, and that includes the committee to manage a lake that dried up 80 years ago.

Greece is awesome.

iapetus · May 5, 2010

Socreges said:
Greece is fucked.

Fixed.

Steppenwolf · May 5, 2010

These people should be ashamed of themselfes. We pay for their debths and their corrupt lifestyle with our tax money and they go on the street protesting making the situation even worse.

trinest · May 5, 2010

Me to, its pretty much all greek to me.

norinrad · May 5, 2010

Another lucrative sinecure is to belong to a state committee. The government has no idea how many there are. It's been estimated that they have 10,000 employees and cost nearly £200m a year, and that includes the committee to manage a lake that dried up 80 years ago.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Sh1ner · May 5, 2010

Steppenwolf said:
These people should be ashamed of themselfes. We pay for their debths and their corrupt lifestyle with our tax money and they go on the street protesting making the situation even worse.

not sure if serious.jpg

Socreges · May 5, 2010

Socreges said:
Europe is fucked.

Fixed.

Scrow · May 5, 2010

what's the security like in Greece atm? I heard some stuff on the news about a bank being bombed...

i'm heading off to europe soon and wondering if i should steer clear of the area?

Combichristoffersen · May 5, 2010

iapetus said:
Fixed.

Can't wait for them to start selling their cultural heritage. I'd buy the Parthenon for a dollar.

That said, didn't Greece have to sell some of their islands last year, or earlier this year, to pay off their debt?

Souldriver · May 5, 2010

It's a shitty situation. By striking the Greek people are acting against their interests. Their country is basically bankrupt, and there's nothing else to do but to drastically cut in the budget.

But then again, it's the government and politics that failed, and the people are the victim of it. It sure as hell is not fair.

But then again, the Greek people voted these people in office, and they should've known the whole budget was kinda fishy for years on end.

But then again, I'm sure the whole political arena, and the mentality of politicians as well as other Greeks, just makes it a fact that about every government would've done dirty tricks to balance the budget. So perhaps it didn't matter who the Greek people voted for.

I'm no expert, but I just think the mentality of both the Greek politicians just as the Greek people in general need to change. It really is a messed up country.

Kabouter · May 5, 2010

Souldriver said:
But then again, it's the government and politics that failed, and the people are the victim of it. It sure as hell is not fair.

Yeah, the people definitely didn't benefit from all the money pouring into the economy. And it was definitely just the elected government that was getting paid for doing a shit job or not doing anything at all. The people are always innocent right?

Steppenwolf · May 5, 2010

Sh1ner said:
not sure if serious.jpg

Dead serious. Everybody in Germany is pissed off right now at the greeks. We will pay 22 billion of our tax money to help the greeks. And these idiots who go on the streets protesting will continue with their corrupt lifestyle and where do they think the money comes from? Growing on trees?
Their country is basicly bankrupt. And thats just not the fault of their state only but the fault of the whole greek society with their deeply rooting corruption. It's their own fault and there is NO point in protesting anything because no alternative exists.

Router · May 5, 2010

SmokyDave said:
They can't get sacked, because a civil service post is for life. Unless the incumbent decides to retire in his or her forties, WITH a pension.

.

Kabouter · May 5, 2010

Steppenwolf said:
Dead serious. Everybody in Germany is pissed off right now at the greeks. We will pay 22 billion of our tax money to help the greeks. And these idiots who go on the streets protesting will continue with their corrupt lifestyle and where do they think the money comes from? Growing on trees?
Their country is basicly bankrupt. And thats just not the fault of their state but the fault of the whole greek society with their deeply rooting corruption. It's their own fault and there is NO point in protesting anything because no alternative exists.

Damn right. I feel exactly the same way.
(except for the Netherlands the amount is smaller, but likely higher on a per capita basis)

Fritz · May 5, 2010

Kabouter said:
Yeah, the people definitely didn't benefit from all the money pouring into the economy. And it was definitely just the elected government that was getting paid for doing a shit job or not doing anything at all. The people are always innocent right?

I'm so with you. The people have been ignorant at best. But ignorance doesn't save your ass, and shouldn't.

industrian · May 5, 2010

Shouldn't the Greek government be dissolved and the country be put under administration by the EU and IMF until they get their shit back on track? It's what we do with businesses that get fucked up (as in: administration, not specifically by the EU/IMF of course) why not countries?

Souldriver · May 5, 2010

Kabouter said:
Yeah, the people definitely didn't benefit from all the money pouring into the economy. And it was definitely just the elected government that was getting paid for doing a shit job or not doing anything at all. The people are always innocent right?

I was actually touching that in my post if you bothered to read the rest.

It's not as if the politicians are the only corrupt people. The whole mentality seems one of freebies, lazyness, fraud, dirty bookkeepings, embezzlement, ... Public Servants get extra money when they come to work on time. :lol The public voted people in office who do so because it benefited them too, because they themselves have the same mentality in their own professional life (whether it's as a civil servant or in the private sector).

I'm not saying every Greek person is a crook, but the mentality is wide spread, and what I've heard from both how the budget got out of control just as how they tried to hide it, it's full of excesses and ridiculous shit.

The honest Greeks that saw their country fucking up and couldn't do anything about it are the real victims, but I specifically said in my post that it's not the governments fault only, but that of the general population as well who approved this society.

It's bittersweet to see how the people are lining in droves towards the Communist movements and parties. It's understandable, they want to break with the corrupt system they're living in, but the irony that in todays world and economy communist policies are about the worst possible option to fix Greece's situation.

Lagspike_exe · May 5, 2010

industrian said:
Shouldn't the Greek government be dissolved and the country be put under administration by the EU and IMF until they get their shit back on track? It's what we do with businesses that get fucked up (as in: administration, not specifically by the EU/IMF of course) why not countries?

Because that's called occupation? :lol

Regarding the demonstrations - people are demonstrating because of immense rage. They are aware that they won't be able to change anything.

Souldriver said:
It's bittersweet to see how the people are lining in droves towards the Communist movements and parties. It's understandable, they want to break with the corrupt system they're living in, but the irony that in todays world and economy communist policies are about the worst possible option to fix Greece's situation.

Communist system is the worst option any country in this world can chose. If what I read in this thread about Greek mentality is true, the communist system will amplify all this by a factor or 10. You have to live in a communist/former communist country to understand what I'm talking about.

Socreges · May 5, 2010

Steppenwolf said:
Dead serious. Everybody in Germany is pissed off right now at the greeks. We will pay 22 billion of our tax money to help the greeks. And these idiots who go on the streets protesting will continue with their corrupt lifestyle and where do they think the money comes from? Growing on trees?
Their country is basicly bankrupt. And thats just not the fault of their state only but the fault of the whole greek society with their deeply rooting corruption. It's their own fault and there is NO point in protesting anything because no alternative exists.

Well, it's the working class that's getting fucked the most. I'm sure they wouldn't agree with you that they're responsible for this. Again, they're not going to look at this as a collective thing, but how it affects thing individually.

BBC said:
"If the Greeks are this upset, then maybe we need to worry about the Portuguese and Spanish and Italians being upset with the cuts they're going to have to make."

That's a really good point!!

Oooooh this is going to be an interesting summer.

Steppenwolf · May 5, 2010

Socreges said:
Well, it's the working class that's getting fucked the most. I'm sure they wouldn't agree with you that they're responsible for this.

Because they are ignorant and unable to identify what's wrong with their society. It's likely that every greek has taken part in corruption since its so widespread and part of the daily routine in stores, at work etc.
Thereforre everybody is part of the problem.

Souldriver · May 5, 2010

Lagspike_exe said:
Because that's called occupation? :lol

Regarding the demonstrations - people are demonstrating because of immense rage. They are aware that they won't be able to change anything.

I'm not sure occupation is the word here. I'm heavily in favor of placing the Greece under legal guardians from the EU and the IMF. Greece fucked up, has no other possible solution to beg for money, and other countries (who are in dire situations themselves because of the financial crisis themselves) put their own economy and stability on the line by poring money into the Greek disaster. Don't tell me they don't have to right, the duty, to make sure the Greek government spends the money wisely and structurally reforms the system to get out of the shithole they're in.

That's what makes the strikes of the Greek people so bitter. While it's understandable to protest against a government that fucks up, especially if they themselves didn't vote for it, the fact is that by doing so they're undermining their own cause and welfare, just as that of a whole bunch of other countries and their inhabitants that are trying to help Greece.

RJT · May 5, 2010

I'm from Portugal, and we're next, baby! Riots are awesome.

Xavien · May 5, 2010

Steppenwolf said:
Because they are ignorant and unable to identify what's wrong with their society. It's likely that every greek has taken part in corruption since its so widespread and part of the daily routine in stores, at work etc.
Thereforre everybody is part of the problem.

Yes, i was watching on the BBC the other day about how Greeks were being extorted by Driving Examiners to pass their test, because the Examiners would fail them otherwise regardless of how well they did...

The amount of corruption in Greece is just staggering, its literally on every level of society.

Walshicus · May 5, 2010

industrian said:
Shouldn't the Greek government be dissolved and the country be put under administration by the EU and IMF until they get their shit back on track? It's what we do with businesses that get fucked up (as in: administration, not specifically by the EU/IMF of course) why not countries?

That's how Gavin Hewitt at the BBC described it:

ATHENS Greek cabinet ministers turned up for a Sunday cabinet meeting to learn the terms of their salvation. They have agreed to a rescue package of around £120bn. The country now, in effect, is a protectorate of the European Union and the International Monetary Fund. The Greek Finance Minister, George Papaconstantinou, said "the choice was between collapse and salvation".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/05/greece_the_price_of.html

I think the future for Greece could be bright - there's nothing wrong with high state spending and generous social schemes, in fact they're often a good thing... but the tax revenue issue needs to be addressed; the inefficiency needs to be addressed - and this is the trigger for it.

Rentahamster · May 5, 2010

Soooo, what I want to know is whether this whole situation is:

1. A success of Keynesian macroeconomic theory in that of course Greece inevitably wouldn't be able to cope with the Euro since they were at the mercy, monetary and fiscal-policy-wise, of the larger and wealthier member countries who would craft policies beneficial to them but costly to a poorer nation like Greece.

2. A failure of Keynesian macroeconomic theory in that despite government-driven policy and spending for the "multiplier effect", Greece still ended up in the shitter.

halp.

Zenith · May 5, 2010

yes, corruption is heavily entrenched in Greece and if they'd voted any other gov in would it really have made a difference?

and considering the Greek gov lied over its financial figures to wrongly qualify for Euro membership you can't be surprised that other countries are pissed over it.

Greek Wealth Is Everywhere but Tax Forms

In the wealthy, northern suburbs of this city, where summer temperatures often hit the high 90s, just 324 residents checked the box on their tax returns admitting that they owned pools.

So tax investigators studied satellite photos of the area a sprawling collection of expensive villas tucked behind tall gates and came back with a decidedly different number: 16,974 pools.

That kind of wholesale lying about assets, and other eye-popping cases that are surfacing in the news media here, points to the staggering breadth of tax dodging that has long been a way of life here.

Various studies, including one by the Federation of Greek Industries last year, have estimated that the government may be losing as much as $30 billion a year to tax evasion a figure that would have gone a long way to solving its debt problems.

We need to grow up, said Ioannis Plakopoulos, who like all owners of newspaper stands will have to give receipts and start using a cash register under the new tax laws passed last month. We need to learn not to cheat or to let others cheat.

Experts point out that ducking taxes is part of a broader culture of bribery and corruption that is deeply entrenched.

Mr. Plakopoulos, who supports most of the governments new efforts, admits that he and his friends used to chuckle over the best ways to avoid taxes.

To get more attentive care in the countrys national health system, Greeks routinely pay doctors cash on the side, a practice known as fakelaki, Greek for little envelope. And bribing government officials to grease the wheels of bureaucracy is so standard that people know the rates. They say, for instance, that 300 euros, about $400, will get you an emission inspection sticker.

The cheating is often quite bold. When tax authorities recently surveyed the returns of 150 doctors with offices in the trendy Athens neighborhood of Kolonaki, where Prada and Chanel stores can be found, more than half had claimed an income of less than $40,000. Thirty-four of them claimed less than $13,300, a figure that exempted them from paying any taxes at all.

There are many people with a house, with a cottage in the country, with two cars and maybe a small boat who claim they are earning 12,000 euros a year, Mr. Plaskovitis said, which is about $15,900. You cannot heat this house or buy the gas for the car with that kind of income

The changes have provoked protests and deep resentment in some circles. For instance, the president of the union for doctors who work in state hospitals, Stathis Tsoukalos, 60, calls the loss of a special tax status for his doctors wrongheaded and unfair. He contended that the special low tax rate was given to make up for the fact that doctors received very low pay.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/world/europe/02evasion.html

is it the Times or the Post that's shit?

Rioting or striking is definitely not the answer. The usual groups gear up to do so at any announcement they don't like. It's like 1980s UK.

edit:

1. A success of Keynesian macroeconomic theory in that of course Greece inevitably wouldn't be able to cope with the Euro since they were at the mercy, monetary and fiscal-policy-wise, of the larger and wealthier member countries who would craft policies beneficial to them but costly to a poorer nation like Greece.

Quite the opposite. In fact it's due to the flexibility and consideration of other EU members that their economy hasn't been flushed down the shitter yet. Being in the Euro would have helped Greece if their gov hadn't been so corrupt. After they joined, Greece went on a huge borrowing spree they had no chance of paying back. It was like using a credit card you couldn't afford on a massive scale. This is why the Greek bonds they exchanged for the money are now classed as "junk" because there's no way they can pay it back. If they hadn't blown all their money they could have borrowed some now to help cope with the recession. Now rather than saying "tough luck" the EU states are trying to get bail outs for Greece and help ease their financial woe. If they were on their own no one would help them.

Lagspike_exe · May 5, 2010

Souldriver said:
I'm not sure occupation is the word here. I'm heavily in favor of placing the Greece under legal guardians from the EU and the IMF. Greece fucked up, has no other possible solution to beg for money, and other countries (who are in dire situations themselves because of the financial crisis themselves) put their own economy and stability on the line by poring money into the Greek disaster. Don't tell me they don't have to right, the duty, to make sure the Greek government spends the money wisely and structurally reforms the system to get out of the shithole they're in.

That's what makes the strikes of the Greek people so bitter. While it's understandable to protest against a government that fucks up, especially if they themselves didn't vote for it, the fact is that by doing so they're undermining their own cause and welfare, just as that of a whole bunch of other countries and their inhabitants that are trying to help Greece.

When you wrote this post did you mean to make some kind of a group to carefully overlook how they are going to spend the money or did you mean something like creating a new government consisted of politicians from EU to run the country? If it's #1, then I agree, if it is #2 then I do not agree and such an action isn't possible anyway, because a country would rather default than give away its independence.

Sir Fragula said:
That's how Gavin Hewitt at the BBC described it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/05/greece_the_price_of.html

I think the future for Greece could be bright - there's nothing wrong with high state spending and generous social schemes, in fact they're often a good thing... but the tax revenue issue needs to be addressed; the inefficiency needs to be addressed - and this is the trigger for it.

A bright future?
They have, how much, like 400 billions of euros to payback? And even by 2014. they are STILL going to be in a budget deficit. Which means that the debt will just keep on mounting. What an awesome future.

LOL @ nothing wrong with high state spending and generous social schemes. They are one of the major reasons why Greece is in this kind of a situation.

Funky Papa · May 5, 2010

Socreges said:
Oooooh this is going to be an interesting summer.

I can't speak for other countries, but I think that Spain is going to remain relatively calm given the current situation. Now, if they dare to touch some agricultural subsidies tailored for the south, shit may hit the fan (which would make me oh-so-happy, not that I expect it).

Rentahamster · May 5, 2010

Zenith said:
is it the Times or the Post that's shit?

lol, are you seriously asking that question? Would an answer one way or the other sway your opinion of all the stuff you just quoted? After the fact?

jorma · May 5, 2010

Steppenwolf said:
Dead serious. Everybody in Germany is pissed off right now at the greeks. We will pay 22 billion of our tax money to help the greeks. And these idiots who go on the streets protesting will continue with their corrupt lifestyle and where do they think the money comes from? Growing on trees?
Their country is basicly bankrupt. And thats just not the fault of their state only but the fault of the whole greek society with their deeply rooting corruption. It's their own fault and there is NO point in protesting anything because no alternative exists.

8 billion. There are other nations besides germany in the EU you know.

And you are lending them money. Not giving them away. Or are the banks giving you money to support your corrupt lifestyle when they issue you a line of credit?

You are seriously overreacting here.

Acidote · May 5, 2010

3 killed in Athens. People is trying to assault the Parlament.

BBC Link

Zenith · May 5, 2010

Rentahamster said:
lol, are you seriously asking that question? Would an answer one way or the other sway your opinion of all the stuff you just quoted? After the fact?

yes, some newspapers can't be trusted even when using quantifiable data. Stats from the BBC I would accept but from Fox I would immediately check for another source.

It's the old addage "If you told me the sky was blue I'd still run out and check".

And you are lending them money. Not giving them away.

I'm afraid it's a loan in name only.

Walshicus · May 5, 2010

Rentahamster said:
Soooo, what I want to know is whether this whole situation is:

1. A success of Keynesian macroeconomic theory in that of course Greece inevitably wouldn't be able to cope with the Euro since they were at the mercy, monetary and fiscal-policy-wise, of the larger and wealthier member countries who would craft policies beneficial to them but costly to a poorer nation like Greece.

But monetary policy is not Greece's problem - the Euro's exchange rate is fine. The idea that all of Greece's problems would be gone if interest rates were what, 1% rather than 1.75%, is absurd. And the EU's fiscal policy rules as they stand would have protected Greece had it followed them.

What this is is a clear example of the effect of poor government. The informal economy was allowed to grow - people were allowed to avoid taxes - spending was allowed to be spent on dodgy programs and committees.

soqquatto · May 5, 2010

I'm not Greek but being Italian I think I can understand this. While the majority of the people still think it's safe to do a "little dishonesty" (rent paid off the record, a little tax trick there, not respecting a rule and so on - typical mediterranean philosophy), they are basically outraged (and justly so) because while they're taking peanuts there's a whole class of people stealing hands down. you can't move without having to bribe someone, all politicians are constantly wasting funds and living large, public official are completely corrupt. just today the news that in some city (I think Athens) there are some 19k private swimming pools while tax record indicate there should be only 1600. there are rich physicians stating they earn just 12.000 per year. this is the people that should pay first (everyone should pay, of course), not poor sods working for 1000 per month.

Walshicus · May 5, 2010

Lagspike_exe said:
A bright future?
They have, how much, like 400 billions of euros to payback? And even by 2014. they are STILL going to be in a budget deficit. Which means that the debt will just keep on mounting. What an awesome future.

The crisis will change that. Now the country is *forced* to rethink its entire economic structure.

LOL @ nothing wrong with high state spending and generous social schemes. They are one of the major reasons why Greece is in this kind of a situation.

No, insufficient taxation, tax evasion and dodgy programs are the reason. You can have high spending without going bankrupt - you just need to balance the budget.

itsinmyveins · May 5, 2010

Acidote said:
3 killed in Athens. People is trying to assault the Parlament.

BBC Link

That's just fucked up.

Lagspike_exe · May 5, 2010

Sir Fragula said:
The crisis will change that. Now the country is *forced* to rethink its entire economic structure.

Change what?:lol
Have you read the article? It clearly states that Greece will cut it's budget deficit to around 3% until 2014. That means AT LEAST FOUR MORE YEARS IN THE RED and it means more debt. This bailout they took? How much is the interest rate, like 5%?

Not only will Greece increase it's debt by not managing to cut it's budget deficit to 0% (although not many countries are ran like this), they will need to borrow more and more to repay the old debt.

BertramCooper · May 5, 2010

jorma said:
And you are lending them money. Not giving them away.

Do you really think that Greece can be counted on to repay the money, including interest? Color me skeptical on that one.

SmokyDave · May 5, 2010

jorma said:
8 billion. There are other nations besides germany in the EU you know.

It is 22bn. 80bn in total of which 22bn is being provided by Germany.

gofreak · May 5, 2010

There's a leadership issue about 'punishing' the wealthy and the government. For sure, go ahead and do that.

However - it won't do much. It won't change much about Greece's financials. There just aren't enough rich people to let them 'pay' for everything, pay for all these problems. Like any country, it's a pyramid, and its the collective sacrifices at the bottom that are necessary to get things on a better road. That's just reality.

Walshicus · May 5, 2010

Lagspike_exe said:
Change what?:lol
Have you read the article? It clearly states that Greece will cut it's budget deficit to around 3% until 2014. That means AT LEAST FOUR MORE YEARS IN THE RED and it means more debt. This bailout they took? How much is the interest rate, like 5%?

Not only will Greece increase it's debt by not managing to cut it's budget deficit to 0% (although not many countries are ran like this), they will need to borrow more and more to repay the old debt.

Four years is not a long time in economics. We're talking a generational change here. Do you know how much tax is lost through evasion in Greece? Estimates range between a low of 10bn and a high of 30bn. Do you know how much is lost through dodgy projects? Dodgy quangos? It's crazy.

Greece is in this mess as a result of its economic culture - that culture will now be forced to change.

jorma · May 5, 2010

SmokyDave said:
It is 22bn. 80bn in total of which 22bn is being provided by Germany.

Yea i think i remembered wrong from todays newspaper. I think 8bn might be the swedish loan. Oh well.

Azih · May 5, 2010

So poor Greeks to say middle class Greeks are rioting, what are upper class to rich Greeks saying? I heard they're moving all their money to offshore accounts.

norinrad · May 5, 2010

Worst part of all this is that cheating irresponsible countries can not be kicked out of the EU, meaning the healthier wealthier countries whose tax payers got their shit together have to bailout these hoodlum countries and yet they think they got the right to protest?.

Retirement age in the wealthier countries was 65 and its now being pushed to 67, maybe 70 but people in Greece can retire at 50. What the fuck?

Make them work to pay back the loans that's being poured in by the wealthier countries to save their asses.

Kabouter · May 5, 2010

jorma said:
Yea i think i remembered wrong from todays newspaper. I think 8bn might be the swedish loan. Oh well.

I doubt that, 8bn is about what Germany plans to loan in the first year though, so you probably confused it with that. Seriously doubt you guys will contribute 8bn, that'd be a staggering amount on a per capita basis. We're contributing 5.5B, and that's already significantly higher per capita than Germany's contribution.

Support NeoGAF

I am confused over the situation in Greece. Can GreekGAF explain?

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Scary Euro Man

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Still Tagged Accordingly

Combovers don't work when there is no hair

Member

Member

Member

Hopsiah the Kanga-Jew

Member

Member

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Rodent Whores

Banned

Member

FUNK-Y-PPA-4

Rodent Whores

is now taking requests

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors

Member

Banned

Member

GAF's Bob Woodward

Member

is now taking requests

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads