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Obsidian Dev: "Alpha Protocol Should Have Been Scrapped"

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M

Mr_Brit

Banned
Source: Joystiq

In the joystiq comments section an Obsidian Dev chose to speak out about AP's toubled development, here is what he had to say:
There was a ton of work put into this game. The problem is that is was a ton of undirected work, or work on things that were just stupid. The Executive Producer for the game, Chris Parker (also an owner of the company), seemed to think he was the world's greatest designer ever, and created all these absolutely shitty systems and wouldn't listen to any of the real designers or devs about things that just didn't work. And you can't exactly argue with one of the owners of the company when he doesn't want to listen. He basically took over the game and dictated exactly how everything would work (or not work, as the case may be). The other producers realized this early on and just gave up, leaving Parker to micromanage all the designers and programmers directly.

Sega also was a factor, because they kept changing the design requirements (yes they had heavy influence there), which never gave the producers and designers time to actually decide on one set of features to make and polish. The blame is still mostly Obsidian's because the execution was absolutely terrible, and it was obvious 2 years ago that this game should have been scrapped. Instead, though, they focused on adding still more features and never fixed the ones they already had. That is a recipe for tons of bugs and no polish... as is obvious.

This game was just an absolute failure of production, and it's no wonder that so many of the developers left the company, even after the 40% staff layoffs. I am still happy about some of Obsidian's other current projects, New Vegas included, because they are going pretty well. Their big unannounced project is looking great and is already much better than AP ever was, and that may end up being the game that everyone was looking for with AP.

Sega should have canceled AP instead of Aliens...
Click to expand...

It's a shame a game in such a fresh genre was ruined by corporate mismanagement. Clearly a lesson here for all these corporate managers, leave the devs to do what they do best which is making a game.
 
C

Costanza

Banned
Is there any proof this guy is legit?

edit: but yeah, it sucks to see the game turned out like this. Looked so cool.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
ShockingAlberto said:
If someone from Obsidian gets fired soon, that will be pretty indicative.
Click to expand...
Not that we'll ever know they were fired


But considering their source is "some guy from the comments section of a Joystiq review", ummm.... (I guess, optimistically we can assume that Joystiq knows he's telling the truth from his profile data or something but still, quoting one's comments section as a source seems like bad form).
 
B

butsomuch

Member
or Obsidian dev: "Fallout: New Vegas and Obsidian's big unannounced project will be great." but is this guy really a former Obsidian employee? I don't think so.
 
S

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
he was not "a corporate manager". Chris Parker is just a co-owner, but he's a dev himself.

edit: also AP is pretty good game if you're into stealth and RPGs.
 
C

CabbageRed

Member
Is there any sliver of evidence that this guy is even remotely related to the game? If not, then it is pretty low to besmirch people's hard work for the sake of passing on a juicy rumor as if it were a fact.
 
M

marathonfool

Member
This is like the 5th time these comments have been posted. Please do a search beforehand. In the official thread, it's been reposted at least 3 times. Another old thread bumped too.
 
L

lsslave

Jew Gamer
This is the THIRD time I've seen this >.<

First in the OT, 2nd in an ages old thread bumped, and now its own thread?

And, since its been around a few days now, it should be noted there isn't a single scrap of evidence seen that this guy is legit. The fact Joystiq (and other sites) have run with it shows that "Gaming Journalism" is about the equivalent of "Tabloid Journalism"

Ah well, I haven't gone to Joystiq in 3 years and I continue to happily not give that site hits. I'm gonna go check the Obsidian boards to see if they have commented on this though.
 
A

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
Reviews so far have not been the most endorsing, which doesn't surprise me with how heavily this game has been delayed. The more number of delays the more likely the project is in turmoil.
 
T

TheFLYINGManga_Ka

Member
Wow. It took some guts to come out like that.

I wonder if this dev is fired already because he probably will be soon.

Sucks about the game.

But I do agree with him. I really wish they finished that Alien game. Hopefully Gearbox's Alien game is finished and turns out good, at least much better than Aliens VS Predators.
 
Hesemonni

Hesemonni

Banned
We're living interesting times. Alpha Protocol is a review disaster and it's bound to bomb hard. Alan Wake, aeons in the making, has received luke warm reviews and based on what I've gathered so far it's not selling too hotly either. I doubt they'll get back the money invested. Obsidian and Remedy both to go bankrupt?
 
N

Neuromancer

Member
It's hard if not impossible to know for sure if this guys legit but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

It must be depressing to work on something you know is kind of shitty.
 
C

CabbageRed

Member
Hesemonni said:
Obsidian and Remedy both to go bankrupt?
Click to expand...

Obsidian has the new Fallout game coming and someone mentioned in the game's OT that the nature of their deal with Sega means that sales will have little effect on the overall health of Obsidian.

Remedy is poised to re-announce the Alan Wake we saw years ago; it will be awesome, it will sell exceptionally well, and Remedy will buy the Max Payne license and fly us all away to a magical land of gaming bliss atop a majestic Pegasus made of chocolate and hope.
 
L

lsslave

Jew Gamer
Hmm, closest I can figure out from the Obsidian boards is that IF it is someone who worked there its just a bitter former employee trying to trash the company. No one is verifying/agreeing/etc. with it but that is the best guess anyone has.

Either way, my hype for this game is still ridiculously high, Obsidian games aren't perfect but they have their own quirks that always make them worth playing through. I just wish for once their ambition would succeed, but until we see New Vegas (and possibly this "secret project") we won't know.

Its a shame Alpha Protocol won't do well, but I hope that the things people like about it actually get used in other titles in the future.

Meh, Dragon Age was a HUGE letdown for me, especially with the hype. I found Mass Effect to be so overrated that I couldn't even get into it. Obsidian games have always had me so hooked I didn't mind their flaws, and going into it expecting them has helped since KotOR 2 :lol
 
R

RedStep

Member
Hesemonni said:
We're living interesting times. Alpha Protocol is a review disaster and it's bound to bomb hard. Alan Wake, aeons in the making, has received luke warm reviews and based on what I've gathered so far it's not selling too hotly either. I doubt they'll get back the money invested. Obsidian and Remedy both to go bankrupt?
Click to expand...

Lukewarm - Moderately warm; tepid. Halfhearted, cool, apathetic.

Alan Wake - Metacritic: 83. User Reviews: 9.0

Not exactly lukewarm. Pretty excellent reviews all around. Not perfect. Also, what makes these interesting times? That a bad-looking game (with potential) ends up being kinda bad after years of development?

I refer you to Daikatana. It'll make you its bitch.
 
L

lsslave

Jew Gamer
Another thing I would like to point out as of note:

Once again Obsidian has had things standing in their way. I feel bad for the company, they are FAR too ambitious for their own good at points it seems.

They were working on multiple projects, and are continuing to do so (Wheel of Time game, Aliens RPG *canceled now, but they were working on it*, their "unannounced project", Fallout New Vegas, and Alpha Protocol)

I honestly hope their "unannounced game" (Which I am intrigued about) and New Vegas are a turnaround, and that they cool their jets until they are at least down to one title and start focusing on 1-2 titles at a time.

They have always shown so much promise but I think they really REALLY work themselves too hard.

Either way, I love Obsidian, I love the new things they try and their exceptional writing, and I can't wait to play this game. I'm going to probably Heavy Rain it though (2 playthroughs back to back) considering its short and the playthroughs can vary! :D
 
R

Revolution number one

Member
What the fuck is with everyone calling the game terrible? It's a decent game maybe not the greatest rpg every made but certainly a fun little rpg. For example, I keep reading in reviews of the game that shooting isn't good (What does "good" mean anyway?) but haven't they ever played an rpg and realised that you're suppose to be terrible at skill untill you've invested points in that skill?

I guess people just want rpg's to play the same but I personally am enjoying Alpha Protocol alot.
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
lsslave said:
Another thing I would like to point out as of note:

Once again Obsidian has had things standing in their way. I feel bad for the company, they are FAR too ambitious for their own good at points it seems.

They were working on multiple projects, and are continuing to do so (Wheel of Time game, Aliens RPG *canceled now, but they were working on it*, their "unannounced project", Fallout New Vegas, and Alpha Protocol)
Click to expand...
It's one thing when your publisher forces your game out in eight months like with KotOR 2. It's the same reason I don't blame Treyarch for CoD3.

It's a completely different thing when you sign far more projects than you can handle. That is just sheer incompetence on their part and is in no way a valid excuse for game quality.
 
B

butsomuch

Member
Nirolak said:
It's a completely different thing when you sign far more projects than you can handle. That is just sheer incompetence on their part and is in no way a valid excuse for game quality.
Click to expand...
I think Obsidian is always working on three projects - two are in full production and the other one in pre-production with very small core team.

With Alpha Protocol actually finished in last year, I assume they are currently working on two and a half projects - Fallout: New Vegas and a secret project are in full production and they are just assisting Red Eagles Games' core design/production team to make and finish Wheel of Time RPG.
 
K

Kuraudo

Banned
Alpha Protocol is not a bad game, but it's not a good game either. There's a lot of shit smeared over some really good ideas and you have to be patient enough to deal with some frustratingly broken gameplay to have any fun with it.

I'm surprised people are still apologising for Obsidian. KotoR2, NWN2 and AP have all failed to meet their potential and all have been developed under different circumstances. The publishers aren't the problem (although it's clear Sega didn't help much) - Obsidian just don't know how to finish a product.

Hopefully Bethesda can smack some sense into them with New Vegas.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Kuraudo said:
Alpha Protocol is not a bad game, but it's not a good game either. There's a lot of shit smeared over some really good ideas and you have to be patient enough to deal with some frustratingly broken gameplay to have any fun with it.

I'm surprised people are still apologising for Obsidian. KotoR2, NWN2 and AP have all failed to meet their potential and all have been developed under different circumstances. The publishers aren't the problem (although it's clear Sega didn't help much) - Obsidian just don't know how to finish a product.

Hopefully Bethesda can smack some sense into them with New Vegas.
Click to expand...

NWM 2 and KotOR 2 are partly the publishers fault (KotOR II massively so), but AP I agree, though I suppose Sega could also have interfered and we will never know.
 
DiscoJer

DiscoJer

Member
I haven't played this, but the original Mass Effect suffered from a lot of technical problems (at least on the 360) and it basically got a free pass from reviewers. (It had horrible draw-in/texture loading problems at least, which the Joystiq and Destructoid reviews make a lot out of in AP).

It seems like Obsidian doesn't have one of those cards.
 
P

Polk

Member
Nirolak said:
It's one thing when your publisher forces your game out in eight months like with KotOR 2. It's the same reason I don't blame Treyarch for CoD3.
Click to expand...
KOTOR2 was in development ~11 months (in other words ~13 from start to release date). Ok, not big difference, but still. That's why I'm not blaming them as well.
 
S

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
DiscoJer said:
I haven't played this, but the original Mass Effect suffered from a lot of technical problems (at least on the 360) and it basically got a free pass from reviewers. (It had horrible draw-in/texture loading problems at least, which the Joystiq and Destructoid reviews make a lot out of in AP).
Click to expand...

Yes, ME had framerate all over the place, but it was 2006 as I remember? People had lower standarts.
 
B

BudokaiMR2

Member
It's not just technical difficulties like texture pop-in or framerate drops though. Although that is one facet of the game shortcomings.

I played a bit at a friends house and there is just a lot of broken gameplay. Certain doors and buildings which are in the middle of the playing field but for some reason the cover system won't recognize, completely brain-dead AI, horrible skill implementation(I am sorry but even if you haven't put 20 points in pistols you should be able to at least hit a guy from 10 feet away. The skills should give you more choices/abilities, not just make you competent), wonky as hell animation, poor level design, etc., etc.

I somehow do doubt the legitimacy of this guy, but a lot of stuff he says seems like it really could be on point. Certain things like the dialogue system and some of the base game design are genius. You just have to put up with a lot of silly stuff to enjoy it. I was looking forward to the game with cautious optimism but after spending a couple of hours with it I just don't think it's for me.
 
J

JWong

Banned
Well, just from a few clips and stuff, it looks like Mass Effect 1, not 2.

Hopefully it works out under the weight of Mass Effect 2.
 
S

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
BudokaiMR2 said:
completely brain-dead AI
Click to expand...

Not true

BudokaiMR2 said:
..horrible skill implementation(I am sorry but even if you haven't put 20 points in pistols you should be able to at least hit a guy from 10 feet away.
Click to expand...

Bullshit. I'm able to do it and kill him with a headshot from far away and I have only 3 points in my pistol. WAIT TILL RETICULE.


BudokaiMR2 said:
wonky as hell animation
Click to expand...

That's true. Level design is ok though. At least it's not copypasted maps from ME1.
 
S

syoaran

Member
it will be the a steam sale before the end of the year and then ill pick it up - but right now I don't think ill have the patience to put up with all the gameplay bugs. I love a good story, but got enough as it is. A shame though, because I was hoping this was a return to form for Obsidian.
 
B

BudokaiMR2

Member
subversus said:
Not true



Bullshit. I'm able to do it and kill him with a headshot from far away and I have only 3 points in my pistol. WAIT TILL RETICULE.




That's true. Level design is ok though. At least it's not copypasted maps from ME1.
Click to expand...

Except for some reason the reticule won't actually work unless you are pretty damn close.

And yes the AI is brain-dead. If you don't think so then I don't know what to say. I have beat one mission by basically running through a room of enemies in plain sight, making it to the next room, turning off the alarm, rinse, repeat.
 
S

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
BudokaiMR2 said:
And yes the AI is brain-dead. If you don't think so then I don't know what to say. I have beat one mission by basically running through a room of enemies in plain sight, making it to the next room, turning off the alarm, rinse, repeat.
Click to expand...

The training mission? Try to do it in Saudi Arabia. You'll catch a lot of grenades, people with a shotgun will charge you, even if they have to climb ladders, other will use cover pretty smart. Also there are some people doing only patrol duties no matter how they allerted while other guards will search for you pretty hard.
 
S

Sloane

Banned
BudokaiMR2 said:
I have beat one mission by basically running through a room of enemies in plain sight, making it to the next room, turning off the alarm, rinse, repeat.
Click to expand...
That's how I played Alan Wake! Well, without the alarms.
 
M

More Fun To Compute

Member
It's interesting that it seems that many people don't think that Alpha Protocol was made by Obsidian's A team when it is such a high profile title. Still, where are Josh Sawyer and George Ziets on the credits if it was made by their best. I guess that a Chris Avelone script isn't enough to carry a game for many people.

Not sure what to make of this disgruntled employee. Bound to get a distorted picture from listening to things like this but the same is true from listening to PR managed official stories.
 
S

Shake Appeal

Member
Alan Wake may well have "lukewarm" reviews (hint: it doesn't), but it's still my favourite game I've played in 2010. And one of my favourites I've played this entire console generation.
 
N

nico

Banned
This is probably fan fiction but seriously what an awful company who continually makes shitty games. Their best game was made copying Bioware and their next best game will probably be made copying bethesda. At least one of them isn't blaming their publishers for their own incompetence this time. Oh wait they're doing that too. And what the hell at people comparing these hacks to remedy, alan wake is selling fine.
 
B

BudokaiMR2

Member
subversus said:
The training mission? Try to do it in Saudi Arabia. You'll catch a lot of grenades, people with a shotgun will charge you, even if they have to climb ladders, other will use cover pretty smart. Also there are some people doing only patrol duties no matter how they allerted while other guards will search for you pretty hard.
Click to expand...

I did missions in saudi arabia like that. maybe not the whole mission but at least half of a couple of levels.

Honestly if you think that an A.I. climbing a ladder and making himself an easy target is an example of good A.I. then...

And I will still stand that even if there is potential the skill implementation is horrible. It also feels shit because it doesn't seem to affect the AI as much. I couldn't hit a guy in a tower with my pistol for the life of me in the end of one of the saudi missions, but he manages to plant an RPG right in my face.
 
2

2San

Member
So how much cash EA got left, can't they just buy them up and give put them under Bioware so they can get some proper direction? I see no losers in this scenario.
 
S

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
BudokaiMR2 said:
Honestly if you think that an A.I. climbing a ladder and making himself an easy target is an example of good A.I. then...
Click to expand...

No, it's not when you're ducking behind the cover on the top and shooting at people below and then suddenly you have a man with a shotgun right beside you.
 
S

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
More Fun To Compute said:
It's interesting that it seems that many people don't think that Alpha Protocol was made by Obsidian's A team when it is such a high profile title. Still, where are Josh Sawyer and George Ziets on the credits if it was made by their best.
Click to expand...

Sawyer made CQC and martial arts system. Actually the better part of the game.
 
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